GOP won't promise ObamaCare fix will cover all

[Flopper]

All plans on healthcare.gov have prescription coverage. The average deductible for silver plans on healthcare.gov is $3,110 for a 30 year old. The average premium before subsidies is is $312 and $284 after subsidies. The cap on out of pocket cost is $6110. Above that, all medical expenses are paid with no limit. That is not worthless coverage.

In 2007, before Obamacare, when preexisting conditions was used in individual plans to filter out customers likely to have high medical costs, the average premium of a individual policy was $158/mo. The average individual deducible was $1972.

In 2007, individual plans had far less coverage than plans today. Only 24% of the plans had maternity. 16% of the plans had no drug coverage. 30% of the plans had no chiropractic coverage. 20% of the plans had no mental healthcare coverage. Essential all plans had lifetime maximums and half the plans had yearly maximums. There was a wide variation in preventive care coverage. Some plans included nothing and others include most of the current preventive care in Obamacare but essential none include all the preventive care in current plans.

Although individual healthcare plans prior to Obamacare had far more benefit choices than those today and thus greater variations in premiums, comparing plans was almost impossible because of variation in coverage between plans. Even when the benefit plan summary was the same, in 1/3 of the states the actually contracts could be quite different. Today, the law prevents insurer from putting loopholes in the contract that allow insurers to deny coverage.

Although individual plans today are more expensive and have a higher deductible they have much more coverage and are available to everyone, not just the most healthy.

Silver Health Insurance Plans
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/content/expertcenterNew/eHealthCBreport2008FINAL.pdf

Hmm, yeah, that's why the last time I got prescriptions renewed under my Obama plan the cost for Levimir alone was $500. That's the full price.

Obamacare sucks. I know because I had an Obamacare plan.

The so-called "cost" of Obamacare plans you posted is irrelevant since you ignore the fact that the deductible per family member is $6500. That kind of "insurance" is worthless. You are comparing apples and oranges: the cost of worthless insurance vs. the cost of real insurance.

The ACA has nothing to do with drug prices.

And, I'm right behind you on the problem of drug prices.

Please suggest a solution.

It has to do with whether my prescriptions are covered, you fuckng dumbass. The solution is repeal Obamacare.

Each insurance company decides what drugs it will include it's formulary. No insurance company now or before Obamacare covers every drug. One of the steps in picking an insurance company is checking their formulary to make sure the drugs you need are covered.

Since Obamacare was passed practically everything that people hated about their insurance company or healthcare in general was blamed on Obamacare. Well guess what? That's going change because there will be a new healthcare plan owned by Republicans who will then own America's healthcare problems.

I've never heard of an insurance company that didn't cover levemir until I got Obamacare. It's like not covering penicillin.

Levemir is covered on my insurance, Regence Blue Cross Blue Shield as a Tier 2 drug which on my plan is a $40 copay.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

GOP won't promise ObamaCare fix will cover all

How many Americans left without coverage will Republicans find unacceptable? Half? Three quarters?

Did obiecare cover everyone? That's news to me. The reason given for passing obiecare was we had 40 million uninsured. We still have 40 million uninsured.

 

[Flopper]

GOP won't promise ObamaCare fix will cover all

How many Americans left without coverage will Republicans find unacceptable? Half? Three quarters?

Did obiecare cover everyone? That's news to me. The reason given for passing obiecare was we had 40 million uninsured. We still have 40 million uninsured.

Actually it was 49 million. 20 million have got coverage leaving the uninsured at 29 million.
Even With Obamacare, 29 Million People Are Uninsured: Here’s Why

 

[Missouri_Mike]

GOP won't promise ObamaCare fix will cover all

How many Americans left without coverage will Republicans find unacceptable? Half? Three quarters?

Did obiecare cover everyone? That's news to me. The reason given for passing obiecare was we had 40 million uninsured. We still have 40 million uninsured.

Actually it was 49 million. 20 million have got coverage leaving the uninsured at 29 million.
Even With Obamacare, 29 Million People Are Uninsured: Here’s Why

Oh shit, so it was 49 million now. That number seems to get bigger all the time. And it's down to thirty million. Good job you stupid fucks only 300 million had to suffer for such a grand gain. Nicely done retards. Only 300 million had to have their insurance totally fucked up and costing them more in premiums and deductables to the point their insurance is damn near useless but you asswipes got another 20 million insured! Of course with subsidies paid for by the 300 million who now have shit coverage because of the law. Yay, nicely done.

 

[RodISHI]

You've made some harsh charges on insurance companies here.

You should cite something that supports your charges.

Like with the reason for auto insurance requirements, citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that.

The result is that we need some sort of system that keeps citizens from declaring bankruptcy or just dying. (The largest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was health care.) And, we can not afford to serve people's health by using our ERs - the most expensive health care we have. Having tax payers support ERs is not a solution. And, having hospitals distribute their ER costs to all who use the hospitals just leads to $100 aspirin tablets and even less affordable service for those who need the hospital. We saw these problems before the ACA.

Your name fits as you need to read more. I just gave you several examples from personal knowledge and experience. I could write several books on the subject of insurance experiences over the years from medical, homes, employees, commercial, bonding to vehicles, sales and even contracting services for a few of them years ago but truthfully I won't do that all on message board postings. Most insurance companies in my book are slime (attorneys play a large role in that). Notice I did not say "all" as I know some I consider pretty decent with decent people and they even have decent attorneys that work with them and for them.

You claim that aspirin will be a $100.00. The following used to cost a flat hundred bucks but that changed in the last ten years> How about I go with a bill I received for $660.00 for a $6.00 shot at the ER when I accidentally walked right over the top of a ground hornets nest last summer (at least forty stings in that ordeal). Now I could have had a shot here on hand if'n the pharma industry and regulatiors were not such dickheads, I could have given myself that $6.00 shot saving everyone the trouble of that trip to the ER but regulatory bs stops that. And how would they pay for that new fancy hospital and support that whole medical industry complex as a whole if'n people could have these cheap emergency supplies on hand verses going through all their commercial sectors.

"....citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that"
That is your take on it. Truth is some are too lazy, some are fully entrenched from being propagandized for the majority of their lives, others merely are ignorant as they believe its all good and nobody would really do anything that bad as to risk someone else's health and well being for a few lousy bucks but fact is there are those who really could care less as long as it ain't them.

Now you have those who twist phrases like "personal responsibility" in order to make one side make the other side look like real assholes or get a rise out of people in order to get a storm moving so their agenda can be filled with faithful blind supporters (the more recent hate movements during the election should give you a clue on that end as to how that works). Just toss out a catch phrase the media moguls can run with and they will all be parroting whatever is new on 'mount Nebo' (spiritual speak you can look it up since you need to read more).

 

[bripat9643]

Hmm, yeah, that's why the last time I got prescriptions renewed under my Obama plan the cost for Levimir alone was $500. That's the full price.

Obamacare sucks. I know because I had an Obamacare plan.

The so-called "cost" of Obamacare plans you posted is irrelevant since you ignore the fact that the deductible per family member is $6500. That kind of "insurance" is worthless. You are comparing apples and oranges: the cost of worthless insurance vs. the cost of real insurance.

The ACA has nothing to do with drug prices.

And, I'm right behind you on the problem of drug prices.

Please suggest a solution.

It has to do with whether my prescriptions are covered, you fuckng dumbass. The solution is repeal Obamacare.

Each insurance company decides what drugs it will include it's formulary. No insurance company now or before Obamacare covers every drug. One of the steps in picking an insurance company is checking their formulary to make sure the drugs you need are covered.

Since Obamacare was passed practically everything that people hated about their insurance company or healthcare in general was blamed on Obamacare. Well guess what? That's going change because there will be a new healthcare plan owned by Republicans who will then own America's healthcare problems.

I've never heard of an insurance company that didn't cover levemir until I got Obamacare. It's like not covering penicillin.

Levemir is covered on my insurance, Regence Blue Cross Blue Shield as a Tier 2 drug which on my plan is a $40 copay.

The pharmacist wanted me to pay $500 for a one month supply, even with my insurance card. End of story,

 

[Flopper]

You've made some harsh charges on insurance companies here.

You should cite something that supports your charges.

Like with the reason for auto insurance requirements, citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that.
The result is that we need some sort of system that keeps citizens from declaring bankruptcy or just dying. (The largest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was health care.) And, we can not afford to serve people's health by using our ERs - the most expensive health care we have. Having tax payers support ERs is not a solution. And, having hospitals distribute their ER costs to all who use the hospitals just leads to $100 aspirin tablets and even less affordable service for those who need the hospital. We saw these problems before the ACA.

Your name fits as you need to read more. I just gave you several examples from personal knowledge and experience. I could write several books on the subject of insurance experiences over the years from medical, homes, employees, commercial, bonding to vehicles, sales and even contracting services for a few of them years ago but truthfully I won't do that all on message board postings. Most insurance companies in my book are slime (attorneys play a large role in that). Notice I did not say "all" as I know some I consider pretty decent with decent people and they even have decent attorneys that work with them and for them.

You claim that aspirin will be a $100.00. The following used to cost a flat hundred bucks but that changed in the last ten years> How about I go with a bill I received for $660.00 for a $6.00 shot at the ER when I accidentally walked right over the top of a ground hornets nest last summer (at least forty stings in that ordeal). Now I could have had a shot here on hand if'n the pharma industry and regulatiors were not such dickheads, I could have given myself that $6.00 shot saving everyone the trouble of that trip to the ER but regulatory bs stops that. And how would they pay for that new fancy hospital and support that whole medical industry complex as a whole if'n people could have these cheap emergency supplies on hand verses going through all their commercial sectors.

"....citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that"
That is your take on it. Truth is some are too lazy, some are fully entrenched from being propagandized for the majority of their lives, others merely are ignorant as they believe its all good and nobody would really do anything that bad as to risk someone else's health and well being for a few lousy bucks but fact is there are those who really could care less as long as it ain't them.

Now you have those who twist phrases like "personal responsibility" in order to make one side make the other side look like real assholes or get a rise out of people in order to get a storm moving so their agenda can be filled with faithful blind supporters (the more recent hate movements during the election should give you a clue on that end as to how that works). Just toss out a catch phrase the media moguls can run with and they will all be parroting whatever is new on 'mount Nebo' (spiritual speak you can look it up since you need to read more).

Interesting post, although I can't say I agree with you entirely but here are a few thoughts about the ER.

The $660 you payed for a $6 shot payed for a lot more than just that shot. As you probably know ER's are equipped to handle emergencies with large numbers of causality, even more than a bad Saturday night. That means there's going to be excess rooms, equipment, doctors, technicians, and on call specialist. Although you may not see all those resources because they are in the hospital, they are there for emergency use. These resources are costly and must be paid for somehow. All ER's charge an emergency room fee to help cover the cost of the facility and available resources even though you may not need them.

Although ER's are very expensive, they are one of the fastest ways to get relieve from pain, get a diagnosis, and begin treatment. What might be accomplished through your family doctor, referrals to specialists, and various tests over several weeks can often be accomplished in the ER in hours. This makes the ER very desirable for those who can afford it, which usually means those who have a low copay or coinsurance for an ER visit.

All insurance covers ER visits. Assuming deductibles are met, a trip to the ER which includes doctor, treatments to stabilize your condition, and various tests will often cost the patient less and will be much faster than getting the same thing through doctors and outpatient facilities. For many people there is little incentive to use doctors and outpatient facilities instead of the ER.

 

[RodISHI]

You've made some harsh charges on insurance companies here.

You should cite something that supports your charges.

Like with the reason for auto insurance requirements, citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that.
The result is that we need some sort of system that keeps citizens from declaring bankruptcy or just dying. (The largest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was health care.) And, we can not afford to serve people's health by using our ERs - the most expensive health care we have. Having tax payers support ERs is not a solution. And, having hospitals distribute their ER costs to all who use the hospitals just leads to $100 aspirin tablets and even less affordable service for those who need the hospital. We saw these problems before the ACA.

Your name fits as you need to read more. I just gave you several examples from personal knowledge and experience. I could write several books on the subject of insurance experiences over the years from medical, homes, employees, commercial, bonding to vehicles, sales and even contracting services for a few of them years ago but truthfully I won't do that all on message board postings. Most insurance companies in my book are slime (attorneys play a large role in that). Notice I did not say "all" as I know some I consider pretty decent with decent people and they even have decent attorneys that work with them and for them.

You claim that aspirin will be a $100.00. The following used to cost a flat hundred bucks but that changed in the last ten years> How about I go with a bill I received for $660.00 for a $6.00 shot at the ER when I accidentally walked right over the top of a ground hornets nest last summer (at least forty stings in that ordeal). Now I could have had a shot here on hand if'n the pharma industry and regulatiors were not such dickheads, I could have given myself that $6.00 shot saving everyone the trouble of that trip to the ER but regulatory bs stops that. And how would they pay for that new fancy hospital and support that whole medical industry complex as a whole if'n people could have these cheap emergency supplies on hand verses going through all their commercial sectors.

"....citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that"
That is your take on it. Truth is some are too lazy, some are fully entrenched from being propagandized for the majority of their lives, others merely are ignorant as they believe its all good and nobody would really do anything that bad as to risk someone else's health and well being for a few lousy bucks but fact is there are those who really could care less as long as it ain't them.

Now you have those who twist phrases like "personal responsibility" in order to make one side make the other side look like real assholes or get a rise out of people in order to get a storm moving so their agenda can be filled with faithful blind supporters (the more recent hate movements during the election should give you a clue on that end as to how that works). Just toss out a catch phrase the media moguls can run with and they will all be parroting whatever is new on 'mount Nebo' (spiritual speak you can look it up since you need to read more).

Interesting post, although I can't say I agree with you entirely but here are a few thoughts about the ER.

The $660 you payed for a $6 shot payed for a lot more than just that shot. As you probably know ER's are equipped to handle emergencies with large numbers of causality, even more than a bad Saturday night. That means there's going to be excess rooms, equipment, doctors, technicians, and on call specialist. Although you may not see all those resources because they are in the hospital, they are there for emergency use. These resources are costly and must be paid for somehow. All ER's charge an emergency room fee to help cover the cost of the facility and available resources even though you may not need them.

Although ER's are very expensive, they are one of the fastest ways to get relieve from pain, get a diagnosis, and begin treatment. What might be accomplished through your family doctor, referrals to specials, and various tests over several weeks can often be accomplished in the ER in hours. This makes the ER very desirable for those who can afford it, which usually means those who have a low copay or coinsurance for an ER visit.

All insurance covers ER visits. Assuming deductibles are met, a trip to the ER which includes doctor, treatments to stabilize your condition, and various tests will often cost the patient less and will be much faster than getting the same thing through doctors and outpatient facilities. For many people there is little incentive to use doctors and outpatient facilities instead of the ER.

We do not have insurance of any kind so that ER patient insurance pays is an issue for the insurance companies and their customers to deal with not mine.
I agree with your equipment, etc. assessment but then we do pay property taxes and on those property taxes is a special assessment for this new hospital which is profiting someone else with a larger overall budget than the previous all ready paid for hospital that was torn down (even though most people that pay those property taxes for the bond that paid to build the new hospital were perfectly content with the old facility). The people are paying the cost for the facility and a company is raking in the extra charges while doing business in a facility that tax payers built.

 

[rightwinger]

Republicans have a chance to put in the healthcare plan they want

They had a chance in 2009 to get some of their agenda in and passed on the opportunity

Now, they can get everything. But their base will punish them for supporting any healthcare system

They will conditionally repeal Obamacare and then get stuck with Obamacare Lite

 

[bripat9643]

You've made some harsh charges on insurance companies here.

You should cite something that supports your charges.

Like with the reason for auto insurance requirements, citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that.
The result is that we need some sort of system that keeps citizens from declaring bankruptcy or just dying. (The largest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was health care.) And, we can not afford to serve people's health by using our ERs - the most expensive health care we have. Having tax payers support ERs is not a solution. And, having hospitals distribute their ER costs to all who use the hospitals just leads to $100 aspirin tablets and even less affordable service for those who need the hospital. We saw these problems before the ACA.

Your name fits as you need to read more. I just gave you several examples from personal knowledge and experience. I could write several books on the subject of insurance experiences over the years from medical, homes, employees, commercial, bonding to vehicles, sales and even contracting services for a few of them years ago but truthfully I won't do that all on message board postings. Most insurance companies in my book are slime (attorneys play a large role in that). Notice I did not say "all" as I know some I consider pretty decent with decent people and they even have decent attorneys that work with them and for them.

You claim that aspirin will be a $100.00. The following used to cost a flat hundred bucks but that changed in the last ten years> How about I go with a bill I received for $660.00 for a $6.00 shot at the ER when I accidentally walked right over the top of a ground hornets nest last summer (at least forty stings in that ordeal). Now I could have had a shot here on hand if'n the pharma industry and regulatiors were not such dickheads, I could have given myself that $6.00 shot saving everyone the trouble of that trip to the ER but regulatory bs stops that. And how would they pay for that new fancy hospital and support that whole medical industry complex as a whole if'n people could have these cheap emergency supplies on hand verses going through all their commercial sectors.

"....citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that"
That is your take on it. Truth is some are too lazy, some are fully entrenched from being propagandized for the majority of their lives, others merely are ignorant as they believe its all good and nobody would really do anything that bad as to risk someone else's health and well being for a few lousy bucks but fact is there are those who really could care less as long as it ain't them.

Now you have those who twist phrases like "personal responsibility" in order to make one side make the other side look like real assholes or get a rise out of people in order to get a storm moving so their agenda can be filled with faithful blind supporters (the more recent hate movements during the election should give you a clue on that end as to how that works). Just toss out a catch phrase the media moguls can run with and they will all be parroting whatever is new on 'mount Nebo' (spiritual speak you can look it up since you need to read more).

Interesting post, although I can't say I agree with you entirely but here are a few thoughts about the ER.

The $660 you payed for a $6 shot payed for a lot more than just that shot. As you probably know ER's are equipped to handle emergencies with large numbers of causality, even more than a bad Saturday night. That means there's going to be excess rooms, equipment, doctors, technicians, and on call specialist. Although you may not see all those resources because they are in the hospital, they are there for emergency use. These resources are costly and must be paid for somehow. All ER's charge an emergency room fee to help cover the cost of the facility and available resources even though you may not need them.

Although ER's are very expensive, they are one of the fastest ways to get relieve from pain, get a diagnosis, and begin treatment. What might be accomplished through your family doctor, referrals to specialists, and various tests over several weeks can often be accomplished in the ER in hours. This makes the ER very desirable for those who can afford it, which usually means those who have a low copay or coinsurance for an ER visit.

All insurance covers ER visits. Assuming deductibles are met, a trip to the ER which includes doctor, treatments to stabilize your condition, and various tests will often cost the patient less and will be much faster than getting the same thing through doctors and outpatient facilities. For many people there is little incentive to use doctors and outpatient facilities instead of the ER.

ROFL! You're trying to justify a $600 shot. That's pathetic.

 

[RodISHI]

You've made some harsh charges on insurance companies here.

You should cite something that supports your charges.

Like with the reason for auto insurance requirements, citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that.
The result is that we need some sort of system that keeps citizens from declaring bankruptcy or just dying. (The largest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was health care.) And, we can not afford to serve people's health by using our ERs - the most expensive health care we have. Having tax payers support ERs is not a solution. And, having hospitals distribute their ER costs to all who use the hospitals just leads to $100 aspirin tablets and even less affordable service for those who need the hospital. We saw these problems before the ACA.

Your name fits as you need to read more. I just gave you several examples from personal knowledge and experience. I could write several books on the subject of insurance experiences over the years from medical, homes, employees, commercial, bonding to vehicles, sales and even contracting services for a few of them years ago but truthfully I won't do that all on message board postings. Most insurance companies in my book are slime (attorneys play a large role in that). Notice I did not say "all" as I know some I consider pretty decent with decent people and they even have decent attorneys that work with them and for them.

You claim that aspirin will be a $100.00. The following used to cost a flat hundred bucks but that changed in the last ten years> How about I go with a bill I received for $660.00 for a $6.00 shot at the ER when I accidentally walked right over the top of a ground hornets nest last summer (at least forty stings in that ordeal). Now I could have had a shot here on hand if'n the pharma industry and regulatiors were not such dickheads, I could have given myself that $6.00 shot saving everyone the trouble of that trip to the ER but regulatory bs stops that. And how would they pay for that new fancy hospital and support that whole medical industry complex as a whole if'n people could have these cheap emergency supplies on hand verses going through all their commercial sectors.

"....citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that"
That is your take on it. Truth is some are too lazy, some are fully entrenched from being propagandized for the majority of their lives, others merely are ignorant as they believe its all good and nobody would really do anything that bad as to risk someone else's health and well being for a few lousy bucks but fact is there are those who really could care less as long as it ain't them.

Now you have those who twist phrases like "personal responsibility" in order to make one side make the other side look like real assholes or get a rise out of people in order to get a storm moving so their agenda can be filled with faithful blind supporters (the more recent hate movements during the election should give you a clue on that end as to how that works). Just toss out a catch phrase the media moguls can run with and they will all be parroting whatever is new on 'mount Nebo' (spiritual speak you can look it up since you need to read more).

Interesting post, although I can't say I agree with you entirely but here are a few thoughts about the ER.

The $660 you payed for a $6 shot payed for a lot more than just that shot. As you probably know ER's are equipped to handle emergencies with large numbers of causality, even more than a bad Saturday night. That means there's going to be excess rooms, equipment, doctors, technicians, and on call specialist. Although you may not see all those resources because they are in the hospital, they are there for emergency use. These resources are costly and must be paid for somehow. All ER's charge an emergency room fee to help cover the cost of the facility and available resources even though you may not need them.

Although ER's are very expensive, they are one of the fastest ways to get relieve from pain, get a diagnosis, and begin treatment. What might be accomplished through your family doctor, referrals to specialists, and various tests over several weeks can often be accomplished in the ER in hours. This makes the ER very desirable for those who can afford it, which usually means those who have a low copay or coinsurance for an ER visit.

All insurance covers ER visits. Assuming deductibles are met, a trip to the ER which includes doctor, treatments to stabilize your condition, and various tests will often cost the patient less and will be much faster than getting the same thing through doctors and outpatient facilities. For many people there is little incentive to use doctors and outpatient facilities instead of the ER.

ROFL! You're trying to justify a $600 shot. That's pathetic.

It is like justifying all the county and city employees getting new vehicles and selling the older ones to buddies and family members when most of the taxpayers can not afford the upkeep on their homes much less the increased tax burden. They raise taxes on some bullshit justification with a claim that when that is paid for that cost increase will go away but it never goes away.

How about that 6% pay increase they seem to justify giving themselves each year in the local governments. How many times can a 6% increase go into a 100%?

 

[Flopper]

Republicans have a chance to put in the healthcare plan they want

They had a chance in 2009 to get some of their agenda in and passed on the opportunity

Now, they can get everything. But their base will punish them for supporting any healthcare system

They will conditionally repeal Obamacare and then get stuck with Obamacare Lite

Keep in mind that republicans share most of the same healthcare needs as democrats which mean republicans can't just repeal Obamacare. They have to transition into a new system and there will be winners and losers just as there was with Obamacare.

The biggest problem republicans will have is one of their own making. As a result of exaggerating the cost increases under Obamacare, most people believe there have been huge across the board increases in the cost of insurance and healthcare which are simple not born out by the facts.

So the problem republican lawmakers face is trying meet the expectations of significant reductions in cost without leaving millions without insurance or significant reductions in benefits. That's going to be a tall order particular with democrats doing the same thing to Trumpcare that Republicans did to Obamacare.

 

[Flopper]

You've made some harsh charges on insurance companies here.

You should cite something that supports your charges.

Like with the reason for auto insurance requirements, citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that.
The result is that we need some sort of system that keeps citizens from declaring bankruptcy or just dying. (The largest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was health care.) And, we can not afford to serve people's health by using our ERs - the most expensive health care we have. Having tax payers support ERs is not a solution. And, having hospitals distribute their ER costs to all who use the hospitals just leads to $100 aspirin tablets and even less affordable service for those who need the hospital. We saw these problems before the ACA.

Your name fits as you need to read more. I just gave you several examples from personal knowledge and experience. I could write several books on the subject of insurance experiences over the years from medical, homes, employees, commercial, bonding to vehicles, sales and even contracting services for a few of them years ago but truthfully I won't do that all on message board postings. Most insurance companies in my book are slime (attorneys play a large role in that). Notice I did not say "all" as I know some I consider pretty decent with decent people and they even have decent attorneys that work with them and for them.

You claim that aspirin will be a $100.00. The following used to cost a flat hundred bucks but that changed in the last ten years> How about I go with a bill I received for $660.00 for a $6.00 shot at the ER when I accidentally walked right over the top of a ground hornets nest last summer (at least forty stings in that ordeal). Now I could have had a shot here on hand if'n the pharma industry and regulatiors were not such dickheads, I could have given myself that $6.00 shot saving everyone the trouble of that trip to the ER but regulatory bs stops that. And how would they pay for that new fancy hospital and support that whole medical industry complex as a whole if'n people could have these cheap emergency supplies on hand verses going through all their commercial sectors.

"....citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that"
That is your take on it. Truth is some are too lazy, some are fully entrenched from being propagandized for the majority of their lives, others merely are ignorant as they believe its all good and nobody would really do anything that bad as to risk someone else's health and well being for a few lousy bucks but fact is there are those who really could care less as long as it ain't them.

Now you have those who twist phrases like "personal responsibility" in order to make one side make the other side look like real assholes or get a rise out of people in order to get a storm moving so their agenda can be filled with faithful blind supporters (the more recent hate movements during the election should give you a clue on that end as to how that works). Just toss out a catch phrase the media moguls can run with and they will all be parroting whatever is new on 'mount Nebo' (spiritual speak you can look it up since you need to read more).

Interesting post, although I can't say I agree with you entirely but here are a few thoughts about the ER.

The $660 you payed for a $6 shot payed for a lot more than just that shot. As you probably know ER's are equipped to handle emergencies with large numbers of causality, even more than a bad Saturday night. That means there's going to be excess rooms, equipment, doctors, technicians, and on call specialist. Although you may not see all those resources because they are in the hospital, they are there for emergency use. These resources are costly and must be paid for somehow. All ER's charge an emergency room fee to help cover the cost of the facility and available resources even though you may not need them.

Although ER's are very expensive, they are one of the fastest ways to get relieve from pain, get a diagnosis, and begin treatment. What might be accomplished through your family doctor, referrals to specialists, and various tests over several weeks can often be accomplished in the ER in hours. This makes the ER very desirable for those who can afford it, which usually means those who have a low copay or coinsurance for an ER visit.

All insurance covers ER visits. Assuming deductibles are met, a trip to the ER which includes doctor, treatments to stabilize your condition, and various tests will often cost the patient less and will be much faster than getting the same thing through doctors and outpatient facilities. For many people there is little incentive to use doctors and outpatient facilities instead of the ER.

ROFL! You're trying to justify a $600 shot. That's pathetic.

No, just stating facts. It seems like the only posts you read are your own.

 

[RodISHI]

Republicans have a chance to put in the healthcare plan they want

They had a chance in 2009 to get some of their agenda in and passed on the opportunity

Now, they can get everything. But their base will punish them for supporting any healthcare system

They will conditionally repeal Obamacare and then get stuck with Obamacare Lite

Keep in mind that republicans share most of the same healthcare needs as democrats which mean republicans can't just repeal Obamacare. They have to transition into a new system and there will be winners and losers just as there was with Obamacare.

The biggest problem republicans will have is one of their own making. As a result of exaggerating the cost increases under Obamacare, most people believe there have been huge across the board increases in the cost of insurance and healthcare which are simple not born out by the facts.

So the problem republican lawmakers face is trying meet the expectations of significant reductions in cost without leaving millions without insurance or significant reductions in benefits. That's going to be a tall order particular with democrats doing the same thing to Trumpcare that Republicans did to Obamacare.

You are so very full of shit on this statement. Most insurance is nothing more than racketeering with government approval at this point "The biggest problem republicans will have is one of their own making. As a result of exaggerating the cost increases under Obamacare, most people believe there have been huge across the board increases in the cost of insurance and healthcare which are simple not born out by the facts."

 

[sartre play]

Don't want to go back to insurance co being able to dump people if they get sick, after paying for there health care for years while well. all else is up for discussion.

 

[Flopper]

Republicans have a chance to put in the healthcare plan they want

They had a chance in 2009 to get some of their agenda in and passed on the opportunity

Now, they can get everything. But their base will punish them for supporting any healthcare system

They will conditionally repeal Obamacare and then get stuck with Obamacare Lite

Keep in mind that republicans share most of the same healthcare needs as democrats which mean republicans can't just repeal Obamacare. They have to transition into a new system and there will be winners and losers just as there was with Obamacare.

The biggest problem republicans will have is one of their own making. As a result of exaggerating the cost increases under Obamacare, most people believe there have been huge across the board increases in the cost of insurance and healthcare which are simple not born out by the facts.

So the problem republican lawmakers face is trying meet the expectations of significant reductions in cost without leaving millions without insurance or significant reductions in benefits. That's going to be a tall order particular with democrats doing the same thing to Trumpcare that Republicans did to Obamacare.

You are so very full of shit on this statement. Most insurance is nothing more than racketeering with government approval at this point "The biggest problem republicans will have is one of their own making. As a result of exaggerating the cost increases under Obamacare, most people believe there have been huge across the board increases in the cost of insurance and healthcare which are simple not born out by the facts."

And how do you think republicans are going to change this?

 

[WillReadmore]

Who's premiums are increasing 22%, not the 50% of the people who are covered by their employer's plan, and not the 39% that are covered by Medicare and Medicaid. This projected 22% increase is for silver policies sold on the exchange which will effect less 10% of the insured.

Of the 39 states that have reported projected premiums for silver plan polices sold on the exchanges, the average projected increase is 22%. As in the past, actual premium increases will be far less than the projected increases. Just look at 2016. Projections were 18%. The actual average was 10.6% and the weighted average was only 3.6%. However what people are interested in is what they have to pay after subsidies which was an average on -.7% decrease.

Analysis of 2016 Premium Changes in the Affordable Care Act’s Health Insurance Marketplaces

Those claims about premium increases ignore the fact that Obamacare is almost worthless. When you have a $6500 deductible per family member, and it doesn't cover your prescriptions, what good is it?

All plans on healthcare.gov have prescription coverage. The average deductible for silver plans on healthcare.gov is $3,110 for a 30 year old. The average premium before subsidies is is $312 and $284 after subsidies. The cap on out of pocket cost is $6110. Above that, all medical expenses are paid with no limit. That is not worthless coverage.

In 2007, before Obamacare, when preexisting conditions was used in individual plans to filter out customers likely to have high medical costs, the average premium of a individual policy was $158/mo. The average individual deducible was $1972.

In 2007, individual plans had far less coverage than plans today. Only 24% of the plans had maternity. 16% of the plans had no drug coverage. 30% of the plans had no chiropractic coverage. 20% of the plans had no mental healthcare coverage. Essential all plans had lifetime maximums and half the plans had yearly maximums. There was a wide variation in preventive care coverage. Some plans included nothing and others include most of the current preventive care in Obamacare but essential none include all the preventive care in current plans.

Although individual healthcare plans prior to Obamacare had far more benefit choices than those today and thus greater variations in premiums, comparing plans was almost impossible because of variation in coverage between plans. Even when the benefit plan summary was the same, in 1/3 of the states the actually contracts could be quite different. Today, the law prevents insurer from putting loopholes in the contract that allow insurers to deny coverage.

Although individual plans today are more expensive and have a higher deductible they have much more coverage and are available to everyone, not just the most healthy.

Silver Health Insurance Plans
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/content/expertcenterNew/eHealthCBreport2008FINAL.pdf

Hmm, yeah, that's why the last time I got prescriptions renewed under my Obama plan the cost for Levimir alone was $500. That's the full price.

Obamacare sucks. I know because I had an Obamacare plan.

The so-called "cost" of Obamacare plans you posted is irrelevant since you ignore the fact that the deductible per family member is $6500. That kind of "insurance" is worthless. You are comparing apples and oranges: the cost of worthless insurance vs. the cost of real insurance.

The ACA has nothing to do with drug prices.

And, I'm right behind you on the problem of drug prices.

Please suggest a solution.

It has to do with whether my prescriptions are covered, you fuckng dumbass. The solution is repeal Obamacare.

Get a grip, dude.

Whether a particular medication (or procedure) is covered is up to YOUR INSURANCE POLICY - NOT the ACA.

What makes you think that if your insurance company had less regulation they would choose to buy that drug for you???

 

[WillReadmore]

You've made some harsh charges on insurance companies here.

You should cite something that supports your charges.

Like with the reason for auto insurance requirements, citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that.

The result is that we need some sort of system that keeps citizens from declaring bankruptcy or just dying. (The largest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was health care.) And, we can not afford to serve people's health by using our ERs - the most expensive health care we have. Having tax payers support ERs is not a solution. And, having hospitals distribute their ER costs to all who use the hospitals just leads to $100 aspirin tablets and even less affordable service for those who need the hospital. We saw these problems before the ACA.

Your name fits as you need to read more. I just gave you several examples from personal knowledge and experience. I could write several books on the subject of insurance experiences over the years from medical, homes, employees, commercial, bonding to vehicles, sales and even contracting services for a few of them years ago but truthfully I won't do that all on message board postings. Most insurance companies in my book are slime (attorneys play a large role in that). Notice I did not say "all" as I know some I consider pretty decent with decent people and they even have decent attorneys that work with them and for them.

You claim that aspirin will be a $100.00. The following used to cost a flat hundred bucks but that changed in the last ten years> How about I go with a bill I received for $660.00 for a $6.00 shot at the ER when I accidentally walked right over the top of a ground hornets nest last summer (at least forty stings in that ordeal). Now I could have had a shot here on hand if'n the pharma industry and regulatiors were not such dickheads, I could have given myself that $6.00 shot saving everyone the trouble of that trip to the ER but regulatory bs stops that. And how would they pay for that new fancy hospital and support that whole medical industry complex as a whole if'n people could have these cheap emergency supplies on hand verses going through all their commercial sectors.

"....citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that"
That is your take on it. Truth is some are too lazy, some are fully entrenched from being propagandized for the majority of their lives, others merely are ignorant as they believe its all good and nobody would really do anything that bad as to risk someone else's health and well being for a few lousy bucks but fact is there are those who really could care less as long as it ain't them.

Now you have those who twist phrases like "personal responsibility" in order to make one side make the other side look like real assholes or get a rise out of people in order to get a storm moving so their agenda can be filled with faithful blind supporters (the more recent hate movements during the election should give you a clue on that end as to how that works). Just toss out a catch phrase the media moguls can run with and they will all be parroting whatever is new on 'mount Nebo' (spiritual speak you can look it up since you need to read more).

Give me something to read supporting your issue. Don't tell me I won't read when you can't cite anything.

The "$100 aspirin" thing is an expression that I thought was well known. It refers to the high price of drugs administered in the hospital. Hospitals have to stay whole, so when we leave people who can't pay with no alternative but ER care (the most expensive care we have) hospitals have to jack prices to others - raising the cost of services AND of health insurance.

The drug case you mention is, I assume, the "epi pen" thing. That isn't the ACA. That's the drug company that makes them.

So, we already see on just this thread of the ACA being accused of stuff it doesn't have a part in.

The only people I've called irresponsible are those who want to kill what every American policy holder is depending on before we have any replacement.

And, that IS irresponsible.

 

[WillReadmore]

You've made some harsh charges on insurance companies here.

You should cite something that supports your charges.

Like with the reason for auto insurance requirements, citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that.
The result is that we need some sort of system that keeps citizens from declaring bankruptcy or just dying. (The largest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was health care.) And, we can not afford to serve people's health by using our ERs - the most expensive health care we have. Having tax payers support ERs is not a solution. And, having hospitals distribute their ER costs to all who use the hospitals just leads to $100 aspirin tablets and even less affordable service for those who need the hospital. We saw these problems before the ACA.

Your name fits as you need to read more. I just gave you several examples from personal knowledge and experience. I could write several books on the subject of insurance experiences over the years from medical, homes, employees, commercial, bonding to vehicles, sales and even contracting services for a few of them years ago but truthfully I won't do that all on message board postings. Most insurance companies in my book are slime (attorneys play a large role in that). Notice I did not say "all" as I know some I consider pretty decent with decent people and they even have decent attorneys that work with them and for them.

You claim that aspirin will be a $100.00. The following used to cost a flat hundred bucks but that changed in the last ten years> How about I go with a bill I received for $660.00 for a $6.00 shot at the ER when I accidentally walked right over the top of a ground hornets nest last summer (at least forty stings in that ordeal). Now I could have had a shot here on hand if'n the pharma industry and regulatiors were not such dickheads, I could have given myself that $6.00 shot saving everyone the trouble of that trip to the ER but regulatory bs stops that. And how would they pay for that new fancy hospital and support that whole medical industry complex as a whole if'n people could have these cheap emergency supplies on hand verses going through all their commercial sectors.

"....citizens aren't in a position to pay for health care purely on an as-needed basis, because the costs are just far too high for that"
That is your take on it. Truth is some are too lazy, some are fully entrenched from being propagandized for the majority of their lives, others merely are ignorant as they believe its all good and nobody would really do anything that bad as to risk someone else's health and well being for a few lousy bucks but fact is there are those who really could care less as long as it ain't them.

Now you have those who twist phrases like "personal responsibility" in order to make one side make the other side look like real assholes or get a rise out of people in order to get a storm moving so their agenda can be filled with faithful blind supporters (the more recent hate movements during the election should give you a clue on that end as to how that works). Just toss out a catch phrase the media moguls can run with and they will all be parroting whatever is new on 'mount Nebo' (spiritual speak you can look it up since you need to read more).

Interesting post, although I can't say I agree with you entirely but here are a few thoughts about the ER.

The $660 you payed for a $6 shot payed for a lot more than just that shot. As you probably know ER's are equipped to handle emergencies with large numbers of causality, even more than a bad Saturday night. That means there's going to be excess rooms, equipment, doctors, technicians, and on call specialist. Although you may not see all those resources because they are in the hospital, they are there for emergency use. These resources are costly and must be paid for somehow. All ER's charge an emergency room fee to help cover the cost of the facility and available resources even though you may not need them.

Although ER's are very expensive, they are one of the fastest ways to get relieve from pain, get a diagnosis, and begin treatment. What might be accomplished through your family doctor, referrals to specialists, and various tests over several weeks can often be accomplished in the ER in hours. This makes the ER very desirable for those who can afford it, which usually means those who have a low copay or coinsurance for an ER visit.

All insurance covers ER visits. Assuming deductibles are met, a trip to the ER which includes doctor, treatments to stabilize your condition, and various tests will often cost the patient less and will be much faster than getting the same thing through doctors and outpatient facilities. For many people there is little incentive to use doctors and outpatient facilities instead of the ER.

ROFL! You're trying to justify a $600 shot. That's pathetic.

Anaphylactic shock (reaction to stings, nut allergies, etc.) is SERIOUS. It can kill within a short period of time - often too short a time to even get to a health care provider.

If the health care provider determined they needed to use an epi pen, that could have cost in that price range just for the epi pen, which is single use, depending on when the even happened.

The manufacturer has been targeted for their outrageous pricing, but nobody else manufactures a similar product and this is free market capitalism.

They brought their prices down somewhat, but it's still about $650 for two, as I remember.

 

[WillReadmore]

The ACA has nothing to do with drug prices.

And, I'm right behind you on the problem of drug prices.

Please suggest a solution.

It has to do with whether my prescriptions are covered, you fuckng dumbass. The solution is repeal Obamacare.

Each insurance company decides what drugs it will include it's formulary. No insurance company now or before Obamacare covers every drug. One of the steps in picking an insurance company is checking their formulary to make sure the drugs you need are covered.

Since Obamacare was passed practically everything that people hated about their insurance company or healthcare in general was blamed on Obamacare. Well guess what? That's going change because there will be a new healthcare plan owned by Republicans who will then own America's healthcare problems.

I've never heard of an insurance company that didn't cover levemir until I got Obamacare. It's like not covering penicillin.

Levemir is covered on my insurance, Regence Blue Cross Blue Shield as a Tier 2 drug which on my plan is a $40 copay.

The pharmacist wanted me to pay $500 for a one month supply, even with my insurance card. End of story,

So, shop for a different policy.

Insurance companies can charge whatever they want and cover whatever they want.

The ACA is still free market capitalism.