Government has the power to levy taxes, but...

[Al_Fundie]

So why did you mention not being compensated for completing your taxes?

Sounds like he wants a government handout to me.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Please explain the fundamental differences between my examples and your whine.

Happily:

-Business perform a service for the government by collecting the governments' tax revenue.
-You do not perform a service for the government by meeting zonng laws.
-You do not perform a service for the government by metting health codes.

Thus, your examples are unrelated to the issue presented in that you are not performing a service for the governent under threat of force, whereas the business owner does.

Au contraire.
The ONLY reason the government cares at ALL about the cleanliness of my yard, or the safety of my food is for public safety, which the government is constitutionally required to provide for. Therefor, I AM helping perform a government service when I do so.

Your point is unsound in that the government is NOT 'constitutionally required to provide for for public safety'.
Even if it were, your meeting those codes is not a service you perform to that end for the government in that, absent your participation, the government would not have to allocate resources to do those things - as proven by the very fact that they will bill YOU for cutting your grass.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So why did you mention not being compensated for completing your taxes?

I did not...?

 

[saveliberty]

So why did you mention not being compensated for completing your taxes?

Sounds like he wants a government handout to me.

Well you certainly don't set up a scenario without some point to make.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So why did you mention not being compensated for completing your taxes?

Sounds like he wants a government handout to me.

Says he who, through his unrelated examples, clearly does not understand the issue at hand.

 

[saveliberty]

Government has the power to levy taxes, but does it have the power to force private citizens to collect them?

Are those who collect the taxes compensated for their tax collection efforts?
Doesn’t forcing them to collect taxes create a condition of involuntary servitude?
If so, how does this not violate their rights?

Here's your OP. In order to collect the tax you also report it. If collecting it is involuntary servitude, how is reporting also not the same?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Government has the power to levy taxes, but does it have the power to force private citizens to collect them?

Are those who collect the taxes compensated for their tax collection efforts?
Doesn’t forcing them to collect taxes create a condition of involuntary servitude?
If so, how does this not violate their rights?

Here's your OP. In order to collect the tax you also report it. If collecting it is involuntary servitude, how is reporting also not the same?

"Reporting" taxes is part of 'collecting' them, as you "report" the taxes you collected for the government every time you send them to the government. There's no seperate issue here.

 

[saveliberty]

Government has the power to levy taxes, but does it have the power to force private citizens to collect them?

Are those who collect the taxes compensated for their tax collection efforts?
Doesn’t forcing them to collect taxes create a condition of involuntary servitude?
If so, how does this not violate their rights?

Here's your OP. In order to collect the tax you also report it. If collecting it is involuntary servitude, how is reporting also not the same?

"Reporting" taxes is part of 'collecting' them, as you "report" the taxes you collected for the government every time you send them to the government. There's no seperate issue here.

Okay, so what is your point if what you claim is true. Namely, that collecting tax is involutary servitude.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Here's your OP. In order to collect the tax you also report it. If collecting it is involuntary servitude, how is reporting also not the same?

"Reporting" taxes is part of 'collecting' them, as you "report" the taxes you collected for the government every time you send them to the government. There's no seperate issue here.

Okay, so what is your point if what you claim is true. Namely, that collecting tax is involutary servitude.

Well, that should be obvious:
If businesses/employers collecting taxes (not just federal income and FICA, but state and county and sales taxes as well) on behalf of the government, forced upon those businesses/employers by threat of force, is involuntary servitude,, then their rights uinder the 13th amendment have been violated.

Given that, the only rational recourse is to end the practice.

 

[Al_Fundie]

So why did you mention not being compensated for completing your taxes?

Sounds like he wants a government handout to me.

Well you certainly don't set up a scenario without some point to make.

Especially when that scenario has sliding variables that only you know about.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Sounds like he wants a government handout to me.

Well you certainly don't set up a scenario without some point to make.

Especially when that scenario has sliding variables that only you know about.

Says he who, through his unrelated examples, clearly does not understand the issue at hand.

 

[saveliberty]

"Reporting" taxes is part of 'collecting' them, as you "report" the taxes you collected for the government every time you send them to the government. There's no seperate issue here.

Okay, so what is your point if what you claim is true. Namely, that collecting tax is involutary servitude.

Well, that should be obvious:
If businesses/employers collecting taxes (not just federal income and FICA, but state and county and sales taxes as well) on behalf of the government, forced upon those businesses/employers by threat of force, is involuntary servitude,, then their rights uinder the 13th amendment have been violated.

Given that, the only rational recourse is to end the practice.

Which is the "pay us or you can't collect" scenario I laid out as your plan a few posts back. Why not just admit it when I called you on it? Now you look less than forthcoming.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Okay, so what is your point if what you claim is true. Namely, that collecting tax is involutary servitude.

Well, that should be obvious:
If businesses/employers collecting taxes (not just federal income and FICA, but state and county and sales taxes as well) on behalf of the government, forced upon those businesses/employers by threat of force, is involuntary servitude,, then their rights uinder the 13th amendment have been violated.

Given that, the only rational recourse is to end the practice.

Which is the "pay us or you can't collect" scenario I laid out as your plan a few posts back.

News flash: you're about an order of magnitude less clever than you think.

It has nothing to do with the government paying employers to collect tax revenue; it has everything to do with people not being placed into a condition of incoluntary servitude by the government.

You disagrree with involuntary servitude, dont you?

 

[saveliberty]

Well, that should be obvious:
If businesses/employers collecting taxes (not just federal income and FICA, but state and county and sales taxes as well) on behalf of the government, forced upon those businesses/employers by threat of force, is involuntary servitude,, then their rights uinder the 13th amendment have been violated.

Given that, the only rational recourse is to end the practice.

Which is the "pay us or you can't collect" scenario I laid out as your plan a few posts back.

News flash: you're about an order of magnitude less clever than you think.

It has nothing to do with the government paying employers to collect tax revenue; it has everything to do with people not being placed into a condition of incoluntary servitude by the government.

You disagrree with involuntary servitude, dont you?

When it happens to a state its called an unfunded mandate. Yes, I disagree with involuntary servitude. As an American I have responsibilities as a citizen. Supporting my government in its Constitutional functions is one of them. Income taxes has become one of those things. Until its repealed, that is what it is. I would sincerely love for government to be a much better steward with that money and strive to stay within the Constitutional limits. It often fails at both.

 

[saveliberty]

Your answer to the problem as you have defined it is what?

 

[Vidi]

The Supreme Court has consistently upheld the government's right to collect a tax.

The government -isn't- collecting the taxes -- the business owner collects the revenue, and then sends it to the government.
He does so under threat of legal consequence, should he fail to comply, which falls under the legal defintion of involuntary servitude.

The business is liscenced by the goevrnment. By apply for and accepting the liscence, the business owner is agreeing to comply with the law. If one does not wish to comply with the law, then one is welcome to remove oneself from the joys of business ownership.

End of discussion.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Which is the "pay us or you can't collect" scenario I laid out as your plan a few posts back.

News flash: you're about an order of magnitude less clever than you think.

It has nothing to do with the government paying employers to collect tax revenue; it has everything to do with people not being placed into a condition of incoluntary servitude by the government.

You disagrree with involuntary servitude, dont you?

When it happens to a state its called an unfunded mandate. Yes, I disagree with involuntary servitude. As an American I have responsibilities as a citizen. Supporting my government in its Constitutional functions is one of them. Income taxes has become one of those things. Until its repealed, that is what it is. I would sincerely love for government to be a much better steward with that money and strive to stay within the Constitutional limits. It often fails at both.

Sounds to me like you generally agree with me.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Supreme Court has consistently upheld the government's right to collect a tax.

The government -isn't- collecting the taxes -- the business owner collects the revenue, and then sends it to the government.
He does so under threat of legal consequence, should he fail to comply, which falls under the legal defintion of involuntary servitude.

The business is liscenced by the goevrnment. By apply for and accepting the liscence, the business owner is agreeing to comply with the law. If one does not wish to comply with the law, then one is welcome to remove oneself from the joys of business ownership.
End of discussion.

Someone else already made this point, which I already adderssed.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Your answer to the problem as you have defined it is what?

Make everyone write a check.

 

[saveliberty]

News flash: you're about an order of magnitude less clever than you think.

It has nothing to do with the government paying employers to collect tax revenue; it has everything to do with people not being placed into a condition of incoluntary servitude by the government.

You disagrree with involuntary servitude, dont you?

When it happens to a state its called an unfunded mandate. Yes, I disagree with involuntary servitude. As an American I have responsibilities as a citizen. Supporting my government in its Constitutional functions is one of them. Income taxes has become one of those things. Until its repealed, that is what it is. I would sincerely love for government to be a much better steward with that money and strive to stay within the Constitutional limits. It often fails at both.

Sounds to me like you generally agree with me.

We seem to on many issues M14. I was surprised on this one to be sure. I pay my federal stuff quarterly, because I'm a one-man part-time business. It is really hard to write those checks, when I know how hard I planned, worked and did all the other little things it takes to do the whole job.