Grandfather of Oklahoma teen killed by homeowner in burglary says AR15 made for ‘unfair’ fight

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

No one in here (except for one) has said he didn't have the right to shoot. He did. I only brought up the fact that using an AR-15 as a point Home Defense Weapon isn't the brightest weapon.

I disagree. ARs are great home defense weapons because they are easy to use, customizable, and low recoil. A 12-year-old girl could use one with little effort.

An AR is especially ideal for home defense if it is set up like a pistol or SBR with a barrel shorter than 11 inches, chambered in pistol caliber or .300 Blackout. That is an excellent home defense weapon. It combines the CQC elements of a handgun coupled with the aiming accuracy of a shouldered rifle.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Breaking into a house should be very dangerous.
But if they ban guns it would very safe for the criminals.

No one says that we ban guns. No law can be passed that we take the home defense weapons from your house. That was already backed up by the Supreme Court. Where do you get this nonsense from?

CBS news: Illinois town votes to ban assault weapons, fine violators up to $1,000 per day

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Again, all you've said is that if you ignore the difference, then there is no difference.

You're an idiot.

When something is killing you it's a bit hard to tell the difference when the only real difference is that one comes in Hot Pink.

Previously you weren't talking about the color of the gun. You were talking about the rate of fire. If you are killed, then nothing matters to you. However, before you are dead, the rate of fire matters. Otherwise, why would the Pentagon want the weopon to have that capacity? There is no feature on a combat weapon that hasn't been carefully considered and tested.

There is absolutely no difference between the fire rate of an AR-15 and a M-16-A-4. They are both about 750 rounds a minute no matter how they are fired. But I imagine if a country wanted to buy Pink M-16-A-4s then they could. Could you imagine if the LGBT community were to have their own country. Imagine an entire army attacking all using Pink AR-15s? Would they be any less deadly than any other army with OD or Flat Black M-16-A-4s? Imagine the initial confusion on that one.

But Sarge, they have Pink Guns and Chiffon Uniforms!!

No, an AR-15 can't fire 750 rounds a minute. it can only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, which means about 1 time per second, or 60 rounds a minute

You just proved that you're an ignoramus.

And you still won't outlaw the bump stock which allows the AR-15 to reach the 750 rounds per minute rate.

To my knowledge, only one mass murder was committed by a guy using bump stocks, and even then, it jammed his guns because of overheating. Guns are not designed for massive fire.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Chicago? The same Chicago with one of the strictest gun laws in the country?

Where do all those guns come from?

Boston ,NYC, Seattle , very liberal cities wh tougher gun laws . Lot less gun crime that red state gun nut cities .

That has to do more with demographics than gun laws. For instance Seattle only has less than 8% blacks. Boston? About 23%. Same with New York city.

Most guns used in crime are stolen guns. Criminals use guns that can't be possibly traced back to them.

According to data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), during the four-year period from 2012 to 2015, nearly half a billion dollars worth of guns were stolen from individuals nationwide, amounting to an estimated 1.2 million guns.3 Twenty-two thousand guns were stolen from gun stores during this same period.4 A gun is stolen in the U.S. every two minutes.5

Stolen Guns in America - Center for American Progress

The primary source for stolen guns is gun shops and pawn shops with poor security. As in, their guns are not secured properly.

Not according to the FBI. Hell, just in my suburb alone I can't tell you how many guns are stolen a year. Usually it's done during robberies of unoccupied homes. The priority list is cash, jewelry and guns in that order. At times, they get three, four or five guns. Other times it's morons that leave their gun in their car with the door unlocked.

Stop making crap up. According to the FBI, most private gun thefts are done from unattended vehicles. Stupid people provide criminals their guns. But the Southern States have the bulk of the Gun Thefts. It's from the Gun Dealers and Pawn Shops. The bad guys uses a stolen large pickup to crash the front of the building, pull it forward, back a van into the opening and load up the guns. They are in and out in a matter of a few minutes. Faster than the Cops can respond.

These are the ATF figures which is also used by the FBI. Don't you hate it when someone reads your BS and then fact checks it?

So how does this contradict what I posted? Yes, guns are stolen from dealers and such, but most of the guns stolen are from individuals.

 

[Markle]

Here is a wild idea.
Get a job.
Don't break into houses.

/——/ How White of you to suggest work over Robbin folks. After all burgerly is hard work.

Let's give you a test.

What is your address, where are your guns located and when are you scheduled to go on vacation. You can also answer for your neighbor. If you do, just sit on your back swing and watch the stupid thieves fight over who gets in the neighbors house first.

Here's a sign for your front lawn or window. I'm glad to help too!

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No one in here (except for one) has said he didn't have the right to shoot. He did. I only brought up the fact that using an AR-15 as a point Home Defense Weapon isn't the brightest weapon.

I disagree. ARs are great home defense weapons because they are easy to use, customizable, and low recoil. A 12-year-old girl could use one with little effort.

An AR is especially ideal for home defense if it is set up like a pistol or SBR with a barrel shorter than 11 inches, chambered in pistol caliber or .300 Blackout. That is an excellent home defense weapon. It combines the CQC elements of a handgun coupled with the aiming accuracy of a shouldered rifle.

Just looked that one up. It's not suggested for home defense either. Like the 223/556 it has too great a penetration through walls. Your shots will not be isolated to the building you are in unless you are in a cement walled building. Even setup like a pistol with an 11 in barrel it's still going to have over a 2000 fps muzzle velocity. I may work well for some Special Forces but not for home defense. Best to look at the 9mm through 45acp semi autos. Or a decent shotgun.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Breaking into a house should be very dangerous.
But if they ban guns it would very safe for the criminals.

No one says that we ban guns. No law can be passed that we take the home defense weapons from your house. That was already backed up by the Supreme Court. Where do you get this nonsense from?

CBS news: Illinois town votes to ban assault weapons, fine violators up to $1,000 per day

That is one specific class of gun. And the Supreme Court already ruled that this was legal. It's driving the NRA nutz. Since none of those weapons can ever be classified as home defense, they can be banned on a local level. That is, unless you have a FFL license and the proper storage permitting you to have them. Then they really aren't banned, now, are they. Use the law to your own benefit instead of crying in your tequila.

 

[Markle]

No one in here (except for one) has said he didn't have the right to shoot. He did. I only brought up the fact that using an AR-15 as a point Home Defense Weapon isn't the brightest weapon.

I disagree. ARs are great home defense weapons because they are easy to use, customizable, and low recoil. A 12-year-old girl could use one with little effort.

An AR is especially ideal for home defense if it is set up like a pistol or SBR with a barrel shorter than 11 inches, chambered in pistol caliber or .300 Blackout. That is an excellent home defense weapon. It combines the CQC elements of a handgun coupled with the aiming accuracy of a shouldered rifle.

Just looked that one up. It's not suggested for home defense either. Like the 223/556 it has too great a penetration through walls. Your shots will not be isolated to the building you are in unless you are in a cement walled building. Even setup like a pistol with an 11 in barrel it's still going to have over a 2000 fps muzzle velocity. I may work well for some Special Forces but not for home defense. Best to look at the 9mm through 45acp semi autos. Or a decent shotgun.

How many people have been killed by an errant bullet, fired in self-defense, by a victim in their home, at a criminal?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Here is a wild idea.
Get a job.
Don't break into houses.

/——/ How White of you to suggest work over Robbin folks. After all burgerly is hard work.

Let's give you a test.

What is your address, where are your guns located and when are you scheduled to go on vacation. You can also answer for your neighbor. If you do, just sit on your back swing and watch the stupid thieves fight over who gets in the neighbors house first.

Here's a sign for your front lawn or window. I'm glad to help too!

Sign on my front yard reads, "Screw the Dog, beware of the Owner". You Gun Nutz want my weapon, come and take it. One piece at a time. It comes in 9 pieces. 8 of those are bullets. I am more aware of you gun nutz coming for it than I ever will be the Government or the Criminals.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No one in here (except for one) has said he didn't have the right to shoot. He did. I only brought up the fact that using an AR-15 as a point Home Defense Weapon isn't the brightest weapon.

I disagree. ARs are great home defense weapons because they are easy to use, customizable, and low recoil. A 12-year-old girl could use one with little effort.

An AR is especially ideal for home defense if it is set up like a pistol or SBR with a barrel shorter than 11 inches, chambered in pistol caliber or .300 Blackout. That is an excellent home defense weapon. It combines the CQC elements of a handgun coupled with the aiming accuracy of a shouldered rifle.

Just looked that one up. It's not suggested for home defense either. Like the 223/556 it has too great a penetration through walls. Your shots will not be isolated to the building you are in unless you are in a cement walled building. Even setup like a pistol with an 11 in barrel it's still going to have over a 2000 fps muzzle velocity. I may work well for some Special Forces but not for home defense. Best to look at the 9mm through 45acp semi autos. Or a decent shotgun.

How many people have been killed by an errant bullet, fired in self-defense, by a victim in their home, at a criminal?

More than you think.
UC Davis study finds stray-bullet shootings frequently harm women and children

Please educate yourself.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Breaking into a house should be very dangerous.
But if they ban guns it would very safe for the criminals.

No one says that we ban guns. No law can be passed that we take the home defense weapons from your house. That was already backed up by the Supreme Court. Where do you get this nonsense from?

CBS news: Illinois town votes to ban assault weapons, fine violators up to $1,000 per day

That is one specific class of gun. And the Supreme Court already ruled that this was legal. It's driving the NRA nutz. Since none of those weapons can ever be classified as home defense, they can be banned on a local level. That is, unless you have a FFL license and the proper storage permitting you to have them. Then they really aren't banned, now, are they. Use the law to your own benefit instead of crying in your tequila.

What the left is doing is trying to push gun confiscation as much as they can until challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court. If not for our Constitution and real American judges protecting it, the left would ban all guns in a heartbeat.

So they are pushing hard now before Kennedy decides to spend the rest of his days fishing and Ginsburg takes a dirt nap. After that, freedom to own most any firearm and accessories will be written in stone if Trump is the person to pick the replacements.

Now tell us all, what are assault weapons? After all, if I shot somebody with my bb gun, I assaulted them......right? A knife is an assault weapon. Just ask the people in London who are experiencing a higher murder rate than those in NYC; mostly knife attacks.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Where do all those guns come from?

Boston ,NYC, Seattle , very liberal cities wh tougher gun laws . Lot less gun crime that red state gun nut cities .

That has to do more with demographics than gun laws. For instance Seattle only has less than 8% blacks. Boston? About 23%. Same with New York city.

Most guns used in crime are stolen guns. Criminals use guns that can't be possibly traced back to them.

According to data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), during the four-year period from 2012 to 2015, nearly half a billion dollars worth of guns were stolen from individuals nationwide, amounting to an estimated 1.2 million guns.3 Twenty-two thousand guns were stolen from gun stores during this same period.4 A gun is stolen in the U.S. every two minutes.5

Stolen Guns in America - Center for American Progress

The primary source for stolen guns is gun shops and pawn shops with poor security. As in, their guns are not secured properly.

Not according to the FBI. Hell, just in my suburb alone I can't tell you how many guns are stolen a year. Usually it's done during robberies of unoccupied homes. The priority list is cash, jewelry and guns in that order. At times, they get three, four or five guns. Other times it's morons that leave their gun in their car with the door unlocked.

Stop making crap up. According to the FBI, most private gun thefts are done from unattended vehicles. Stupid people provide criminals their guns. But the Southern States have the bulk of the Gun Thefts. It's from the Gun Dealers and Pawn Shops. The bad guys uses a stolen large pickup to crash the front of the building, pull it forward, back a van into the opening and load up the guns. They are in and out in a matter of a few minutes. Faster than the Cops can respond.

These are the ATF figures which is also used by the FBI. Don't you hate it when someone reads your BS and then fact checks it?

So how does this contradict what I posted? Yes, guns are stolen from dealers and such, but most of the guns stolen are from individuals.

It shows that the bulk of the weapons are stolen from the Gun Shops, Pawn Shops and unattended Vehicles. Very few are stolen from the homes. And almost all of these end up in the criminals hands. You probably asked where the inner city gangs get their guns? Well, here it is. The guns that are stolen in Atlanta or Dallas might end up in Chicago.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No one in here (except for one) has said he didn't have the right to shoot. He did. I only brought up the fact that using an AR-15 as a point Home Defense Weapon isn't the brightest weapon.

I disagree. ARs are great home defense weapons because they are easy to use, customizable, and low recoil. A 12-year-old girl could use one with little effort.

An AR is especially ideal for home defense if it is set up like a pistol or SBR with a barrel shorter than 11 inches, chambered in pistol caliber or .300 Blackout. That is an excellent home defense weapon. It combines the CQC elements of a handgun coupled with the aiming accuracy of a shouldered rifle.

Just looked that one up. It's not suggested for home defense either. Like the 223/556 it has too great a penetration through walls. Your shots will not be isolated to the building you are in unless you are in a cement walled building. Even setup like a pistol with an 11 in barrel it's still going to have over a 2000 fps muzzle velocity. I may work well for some Special Forces but not for home defense. Best to look at the 9mm through 45acp semi autos. Or a decent shotgun.

How many people have been killed by an errant bullet, fired in self-defense, by a victim in their home, at a criminal?

More than you think.
UC Davis study finds stray-bullet shootings frequently harm women and children

Please educate yourself.

Comprehension problems I see.

 

[jc456]

Right . Because of gun nut states . They make straw purchases so easy . Where do you think all those guns on the streets of Chicago come from ?

Knowing this, Chicago stubbornly refuses to allow their law-abiding citizens to defend themselves.

Why is that the case?

Wrong, twinkle toes. Chicago Citizens can get a basic firearms license and carry guns. Plus, they don't need any type of license to have a hand gun, hunting rifle or shotgun in the homes. The 2nd amendment is alive and well in Chicago. Most just don't care to have firearms. What's the matter, you POd that you can't force them to?

It actually took the Supreme Court to give them that right. Check it out . Learn something once

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Breaking into a house should be very dangerous.
But if they ban guns it would very safe for the criminals.

No one says that we ban guns. No law can be passed that we take the home defense weapons from your house. That was already backed up by the Supreme Court. Where do you get this nonsense from?

CBS news: Illinois town votes to ban assault weapons, fine violators up to $1,000 per day

That is one specific class of gun. And the Supreme Court already ruled that this was legal. It's driving the NRA nutz. Since none of those weapons can ever be classified as home defense, they can be banned on a local level. That is, unless you have a FFL license and the proper storage permitting you to have them. Then they really aren't banned, now, are they. Use the law to your own benefit instead of crying in your tequila.

What the left is doing is trying to push gun confiscation as much as they can until challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court. If not for our Constitution and real American judges protecting it, the left would ban all guns in a heartbeat.

So they are pushing hard now before Kennedy decides to spend the rest of his days fishing and Ginsburg takes a dirt nap. After that, freedom to own most any firearm and accessories will be written in stone if Trump is the person to pick the replacements.

Now tell us all, what are assault weapons? After all, if I shot somebody with my bb gun, I assaulted them......right? A knife is an assault weapon. Just ask the people in London who are experiencing a higher murder rate than those in NYC; mostly knife attacks.

Try using something you have very little of. Try using a little common sense. The Supreme Court already ruled that home defense weapons cannot be taken. And they have ruled by not ruling that an AR is NOT a home defense weapon. You want that to change, get different Supreme Court Judges. But with the rulings made by the most Conservative Supreme Court ever on this subject as it is, don't look for it to change.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No one in here (except for one) has said he didn't have the right to shoot. He did. I only brought up the fact that using an AR-15 as a point Home Defense Weapon isn't the brightest weapon.

I disagree. ARs are great home defense weapons because they are easy to use, customizable, and low recoil. A 12-year-old girl could use one with little effort.

An AR is especially ideal for home defense if it is set up like a pistol or SBR with a barrel shorter than 11 inches, chambered in pistol caliber or .300 Blackout. That is an excellent home defense weapon. It combines the CQC elements of a handgun coupled with the aiming accuracy of a shouldered rifle.

Just looked that one up. It's not suggested for home defense either. Like the 223/556 it has too great a penetration through walls. Your shots will not be isolated to the building you are in unless you are in a cement walled building. Even setup like a pistol with an 11 in barrel it's still going to have over a 2000 fps muzzle velocity. I may work well for some Special Forces but not for home defense. Best to look at the 9mm through 45acp semi autos. Or a decent shotgun.

How many people have been killed by an errant bullet, fired in self-defense, by a victim in their home, at a criminal?

More than you think.
UC Davis study finds stray-bullet shootings frequently harm women and children

Please educate yourself.

Comprehension problems I see.

Common sense problems I see.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Right . Because of gun nut states . They make straw purchases so easy . Where do you think all those guns on the streets of Chicago come from ?

Knowing this, Chicago stubbornly refuses to allow their law-abiding citizens to defend themselves.

Why is that the case?

Wrong, twinkle toes. Chicago Citizens can get a basic firearms license and carry guns. Plus, they don't need any type of license to have a hand gun, hunting rifle or shotgun in the homes. The 2nd amendment is alive and well in Chicago. Most just don't care to have firearms. What's the matter, you POd that you can't force them to?

It actually took the Supreme Court to give them that right. Check it out . Learn something once

And since I am the one that pointed this out, exactly what am I supposed to learn and from whom?

 

[jc456]

Breaking into a house should be very dangerous.
But if they ban guns it would very safe for the criminals.

No one says that we ban guns. No law can be passed that we take the home defense weapons from your house. That was already backed up by the Supreme Court. Where do you get this nonsense from?

CBS news: Illinois town votes to ban assault weapons, fine violators up to $1,000 per day

That is one specific class of gun. And the Supreme Court already ruled that this was legal. It's driving the NRA nutz. Since none of those weapons can ever be classified as home defense, they can be banned on a local level. That is, unless you have a FFL license and the proper storage permitting you to have them. Then they really aren't banned, now, are they. Use the law to your own benefit instead of crying in your tequila.

What the left is doing is trying to push gun confiscation as much as they can until challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court. If not for our Constitution and real American judges protecting it, the left would ban all guns in a heartbeat.

So they are pushing hard now before Kennedy decides to spend the rest of his days fishing and Ginsburg takes a dirt nap. After that, freedom to own most any firearm and accessories will be written in stone if Trump is the person to pick the replacements.

Now tell us all, what are assault weapons? After all, if I shot somebody with my bb gun, I assaulted them......right? A knife is an assault weapon. Just ask the people in London who are experiencing a higher murder rate than those in NYC; mostly knife attacks.

Try using something you have very little of. Try using a little common sense. The Supreme Court already ruled that home defense weapons cannot be taken. And they have ruled by not ruling that an AR is NOT a home defense weapon. You want that to change, get different Supreme Court Judges. But with the rulings made by the most Conservative Supreme Court ever on this subject as it is, don't look for it to change.

Neither is a knife

 

[jc456]

Right . Because of gun nut states . They make straw purchases so easy . Where do you think all those guns on the streets of Chicago come from ?

Knowing this, Chicago stubbornly refuses to allow their law-abiding citizens to defend themselves.

Why is that the case?

Wrong, twinkle toes. Chicago Citizens can get a basic firearms license and carry guns. Plus, they don't need any type of license to have a hand gun, hunting rifle or shotgun in the homes. The 2nd amendment is alive and well in Chicago. Most just don't care to have firearms. What's the matter, you POd that you can't force them to?

It actually took the Supreme Court to give them that right. Check it out . Learn something once

And since I am the one that pointed this out, exactly what am I supposed to learn and from whom?

It was later I read that. I read and comment sequentially

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It shows that the bulk of the weapons are stolen from the Gun Shops, Pawn Shops and unattended Vehicles. Very few are stolen from the homes. And almost all of these end up in the criminals hands. You probably asked where the inner city gangs get their guns? Well, here it is. The guns that are stolen in Atlanta or Dallas might end up in Chicago.

Okay, maybe I just went a little too fast for you, so I'll break it down: from my link:

According to data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), during the four-year period from 2012 to 2015, nearly half a billion dollars worth of guns were stolen from individuals nationwide, amounting to an estimated 1.2 million guns.

Now, keep that number in mind: 1.2 million.

Twenty-two thousand guns were stolen from gun stores during this same period.

Compare this number with the one above. What do you see? Well if you put some thought into it, 1.2 million is a larger number than 22,000. In fact 22,000 is a fraction of 1.2 million.

Conclusion: your assertion is completely false. Most illegal guns do not come from gun shops or pawn shops. They are stolen from individuals.