Green New Deal

[RealDave]

Control can also mean regulation, dumbass dupe. Like every intelligent rich country in the world that doesn't have greedy idiot GOP dupes running things... Everywhere outside your bubble of stupid ignorance and garbage propaganda, socialism is defined as well regulated capitalism with a good safety net. "We are all socialists now!" --Finland prime minister when ObamaCare passed... Guess what shithead dupe? Everyone in the world but you brainwashed jackasses who deny global warming and progressive taxation know what socialism is since people found out the USSR was a totalitarian scam. Most successful modern countries have socialist parties and none of them thinks socialism is communism. Wake up and smell the coffee. Only the brainwashed GOP morons...

No you ignorant and uneducated sot, socialism is not capitalism of any form.

Capitalism is based on a free market. Prices are determined by supply and demand. Now you're in my backyard. Arguing economics with me is very dumb, as you have found on dozens of occasions.

The issue we have is that you lack a grasp of the most basic and fundamental concepts. I speak of the market, but you have no idea what that means. Simply put, a market is an exchange of value for value. The seller will relinquish goods if the value of money offered is greater TO HIM than the value of his good. The buyer will offer cash if the goods are of greater value TO HIM than the cash. No one save the buyer and seller have input into what the value of the goods are. Price then follows the judgement of buyers and sellers.

I teach freshmen who grasp these concepts, but YOU fucking don't, regardless of how many times and how basic I explain it to you. Under socialism, the GOVERNMENT is the only entity that decides value. The market is perverted. Under Communism the market is eradicated. Any system where an entity other than the buyer or seller set the price of goods is NOT capitalism.

Would it be socialism if we taxed millionaires and billionaires at 70%?

No, just insanely stupid.

I get it, a thriving economy ensures Trump wins reelection in 2020. You leftists are desperate to throw the breaks on the economy. America suffering is democrats winning.

Based on what.

 

[RealDave]

The deniers are not scientist

Do you mean people like this...

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrDQqMkJWJcPSoAgF9jmolQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1549964709/RO=10/RU=https://www.cato.org/people/richard-lindzen/RK=2/RS=e9oN7BI77LV2cK5gTOCNFLnqpNE-

Something tells me he knows more about the subject than all of us on this forum.

He focuses on the interaction between science and policymakers. He studies whether the move from largely private funding to public support has introduced biases into science and the public policies. Which has nothing to do with the data being collected nor the results of climate change which we are just starting to see.

That's currently. Before that he was a professor at Harvard and MIT. You should try listening to him some time. You'll hear more science on the subject of climate than you will anywhere else.

Same guy who said tobacco doesn't cause cancer & testified for tobacco companies.

The same guy who is funded by coal companies.

The same guy in Cato institute.

you never talk about the issues themselves.

you just slam people who don't think like you and then their sources. that's it.

Bull fucking shit. I have posted the issues a gaxzillion fucking times.

If you knew the issues, you would not have voted for or support Trump.

 

[Ame®icano]

folks round here in Indiana think global warming is a HOAX!

climate change happens, regardless.

what is your opinion of upgrading some existing underground cities for modern times?

We did it before with HUD. Then Democrats made underground cities out of them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No one is shutting off the electricity.,

But there is wind & solar

unless you plan to carpet the entire country with solar panels and windmills, there is no way that those can generate enough electricity to power this country. Nuclear might work, but nuclear is evil, right?

There is enough energy rained down on the Earth in the noon time hour to power the planet for a year.

I guess we should ignore it., Silly me.

Free energy. Who would bitch about free energy? Fossil fuel people? Do ya think? They dupe ignorant fucks like you & here you people are lying & having a freaking fit about the NGD.

How stupid are you people?

LOL, most of that so-called rained down energy falls on the oceans, do you want to float solar panels on the surface of all the oceans?

the stupid person here is you.

Only a stupid fuck thinks we need to collect all of it.

Ok, so you only want to cover the land with solar panels and windmills. There is continuous wind off the coast of the Kennedy compound why are there no windmills there? and what does it cost to build all those solar panels and windmills? are they free? Solar panels need liquid silicon and it takes a lot of heat to melt silicon, what fuel does that?

I wish you libs would actually think about the practical side of your foolish fantasy world.

My understanding is that "environmental" electric cars they want require batteries that are hell on the environment to produce. Leftists never think things through.

 

[Redfish]

Let me try to summarize the left's position on climate change.

They claim that man made pollution of the air is causing the climate of the planet to change and they want us (the USA) to stop using fossil fuels in order to save the planet and that if we don't do it right now the planet will end in 12 years.

Facts: USA is a very small polluter compared to China and India
Nothing we do in this country will change the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere
CO2 is not a pollutant, it is a natural gas that plants need to survive
CO2 has made up .039% of the atmosphere for all of recorded history and is at that same level today
Humans do put crap in the air and water that degrades the quality of our planet

Questions: Why cant liberals focus on stopping pollution? Why isn't that enough? Why do they think they need the fake link between pollution and climate in order to fight pollution?

Conclusion: Mine: Its not about pollution or climate, its about the liberal desire to control the activities of other people and to punish them if they deviate form norms set by the radical left.

 

[Ame®icano]

Is global warming real?

Irrelevant.

What are the proponents proposing we do about it?

.

In 10 years....

Upgrade or rebuild EVERY BUILDING IN THE UNITED STATES.

100% abandonment of fossil fuels (oil, coal, natural gas) and fossil fuel product

100% abandonment of nuclear energy

100% reliance on alternate energy forms that produces 11% of the energy we now use

High speed Rail / Inter-continental high speed rail

Dependence on Technology that does not exist yet

100% unionized workers building and doing all of this

I'll believe she's serious when she start riding bike to her congressional office.

 

[Ame®icano]

Platitudes? Have you read the bill? It's basically a list of platitudes.

and you don't believe in global warming so your opinion, actually brainwashed garbage, makes your opinion worthless.

Some of us prefer to look at the actual science behind claims as opposed to sheepishly getting in line at the slaughter house.

the lying scumbag GOP and it's silly dupes are the only political party and people in the world who deny global warming at this point. Great job! Everything you know is garbage propaganda and a disgrace, super dupers.

You moron, even the IPCC has given up on the term "global warming". It's now "climate change". You could at least keep up on your own propaganda.

Global Warming us a form of climate change.

This way, we don't hsave to put up with every one of you dumbasses having a freak out on cold days.

"global warming"

LOL

 

[Ame®icano]

folks round here in Indiana think global warming is a HOAX!

climate change happens, regardless.

what is your opinion of upgrading some existing underground cities for modern times?

The total dupes of the GOP propaganda machine, anyway.... The only people in the world who don't believe in global warming at this point...

the Science of Astronomy, gainsays their opinion. Ice Ages are cyclial and related to Earth's tilt toward the sun.

WOW, You better phone the climatolists & tell them because I am sure they don't know about the planets history or that the Earth has a tilt.

Thank you for being soooooooo smart.

The point is, Climate Change happens, Regardless. Why not develop better technologies at lower cost to better cope with it.

"at lower cost"

LOL

With $50 trillion price tag. Who's going to do it, the government?

 

[Ame®icano]

DERP

No stupid, some subway systems are electric, virtually ALL trains are diesel. Hybrid technology started in trains, using 2000 HP Rolls Royce diesels to run generators to drive electric motors on passenger trains is where it all started. But they are still diesel.

That is why there is a move to electrify the rail system. The only thing standing in the way is capitalist who do not want change but they die and things change anyway.

You didn't claim "a move" by a group of enviro wackos, you made the statement that "trains are electric." They are not.

So what some are electric and some are not. Electric motors have a usde you people think everything should be internal combustion driven yet that is not the state of the world.

The point is that electric motors have a VERY LIMITED use, because the technology is nowhere near advanced enough to let it go any further, and certainly not to let it replace more traditional engines in ten years.

Very limited?
It's a 122 billion dollar market growing at 6.5% rate per year. It doesn't sound very limited to me.

Electrical motors are not the problem. How to power them is. Even if there is enough resources to make so many batteries, and there are not, with current supplies of cobalt it would take 50 years to replace all vehicles. I said if, because current known cobalt reserves would run out on 75% vehicles replaced.

 

[Ame®icano]

Yes electric cars are coming…..but not everyone will have one in tens yrs,,,,not possible...……
now how are you going to charge them when she shuts off the electricity

No one is shutting off the electricity.,

But there is wind & solar

neither of which can meet our demands of today. while we should continue to develop and subsidize these industries for future energy needs, it's fucking idiotic to say GET OFF THEM IN 10 YEARS!!!

but then just about everything in her plan was idiotic.

I guess we are still discussing the new green deal bill since it's suppose to be the subject of this thread. The bill sets a goal of being off fossil fuels by 2050 which became 30 years, then 20 years, now 10 years on this thread. Maybe this is why big oil is investing billions into renewable energy.
Big Oil Is Investing Billions in Renewable Energy. Here's Where and How. -- The Motley Fool

Even name of the bill if fake. While about half of bill is about getting green with help of tech that doesn't exist yet, the other part nobody talk about is socialist red.

It's watermelon. Green on the outside, and red inside. What we do with green part of watermelon? We throw it away... That's what left is gonna do if they get it their way.

 

[Ame®icano]

Platitudes? Have you read the bill? It's basically a list of platitudes.

and you don't believe in global warming so your opinion, actually brainwashed garbage, makes your opinion worthless.

Some of us prefer to look at the actual science behind claims as opposed to sheepishly getting in line at the slaughter house.

No denier has looked at the science.

The simple fact that you use the term "denier", speaks volumes.A more apt term would be skeptic. Any scientist that isn't skeptical has no place in science.

The deniers are not scientist

Actually, the original deniers are scientists that didn't agree with political agenda, fake program models and cooking data.

 

[Ame®icano]

What makes you think taxing them at 70% is going to make them a failure.... when they’re going to make the money back on the back side of a new green economy! AS I’VE ALREADY EXPLAINED!

Do you not think that would also be a measure of success? The wealthy are NOT GOING TO LOSE OUT ON THIS!

All I’m hearing from you Trumpies is rationalizing doing nothing.

And I’ve already told you.... doing nothing is not an option.

WE DON’T HAVE THAT LUXURY.... ANY MORE TO SET AROUND WITH OUR THUMBS UP OUR ASS!

Global warming IS HAPPENING. It is the existential threat OF OUR TIME AND GENERATION. And we BY GOD have to meet this head on and DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to address this.

If it means throwing some billionaires and millionaires on the sacrificial TAX THEIR ASS ALTAR...... then SO BE IT!

If you have a better plan then spill it! Otherwise.... it’s AOC time.

But make no mistake....... one way or the other..... this is going to happen.

Your problem is you are brainwashed. You believe more in this climate change thing than God himself. You really think that a planet that's possibly hundreds of millions years old can rely on temperature changes that took place the past couple hundreds of years, and say that those changes are indicative of something.

Let me ask: how many factories were there at the end of the ice age? How many cars were around at that time?

If green anything were able to produce the jobs, the energy, the results you think, private industry would have capitalized on it decades ago. You wouldn't need government promoting or subsidizing it. But the facts are that we are not going to put our country in such a hole that it can't ever dig out because of you (and your ilk) beliefs.

So tell me, how many windmills do you have on your property? How many times a year do you use mass transit? How many times do you use your electric car? I would be willing to bet you don't participate in any of those things. Instead, you want government to force everybody else to.

I think what you don't realize is that a very small change in the average temperature of the earth by only a few degrees Celsius can create major changes in the environment. It has risen only about 4 degrees in the last million years but .7 degree in less than a century. For example, just a few degrees average rise in the sea temperature would eradicate thousands of species including oysters, crab, and coral which in turn would disrupt the food supply for a host of small creatures which are the food source for many of fish that humans and other creatures depend on.

The huge cost of dealing with climate change is nothing compared to the cost of doing nothing.

I guess that depends on who you ask.

Nocookies

2018 was the fourth-warmest year on record behind 2016, 2015 and 2017. Even more concerning, the World Methodological Organization predicts a 5- to 9-degree temperature rise by the end of the century.
A picture is worth a thousand words.

As you know, ten years is weather not climate anything.

Ten years is less than a heartbeat when discussing "Climate Change". Why do you post such silly things?

In 2005, Al Gore said that in 10 years coastal cities are going to be under water.

Funny, none of the leftists agreeing with him, none of the Hollywood that gave him and Oscar, none of the politicians moved from the coasts due to the threat. In fact, CNN even moved their headquarters from inland to New York, and still preaching the same.

 

[Ame®icano]

Yes electric cars are coming…..but not everyone will have one in tens yrs,,,,not possible...……
now how are you going to charge them when she shuts off the electricity

No one is shutting off the electricity.,

But there is wind & solar

unless you plan to carpet the entire country with solar panels and windmills, there is no way that those can generate enough electricity to power this country. Nuclear might work, but nuclear is evil, right?

There is enough energy rained down on the Earth in the noon time hour to power the planet for a year.

I guess we should ignore it., Silly me.

Free energy. Who would bitch about free energy? Fossil fuel people? Do ya think? They dupe ignorant fucks like you & here you people are lying & having a freaking fit about the NGD.

How stupid are you people?

So tell me, how can I get some of this "free" energy?

Unicorn's ass.

 

[jc456]

Laughing and mocking is NOT a strategy ... but it is the only serious response AOC & her 'Green New Deal' deserves.

Well, from your political perspective, sure. But it's very possible that, at some point, you'll need to make a strong and serious argument.

What I don't to see is a continuation of these wild swings back and forth. This ain't good for the country.
.

How in the hell do you make a strong and serious argument against the rantings of someone whose brain clearly stopped developing in third grade? I'm not even kidding. How do you debate something like this as though it's actually a real thing, beyond what we're already doing, which is pointing out how batshit, rainbow-unicorn-fart insane it is?!

As was pointed out earlier, one effective method in negotiations is to start off shooting for the stars, and winning by falling back and looking as if you capitulated.

As was also pointed out, mocking and laughing is not a strategy.
.

As I continue to point out, that doesn't tell us what you think we're supposed to say other than the obvious, which is that Occasional Cortex needs meds stronger than we currently have invented.

That's up to you. Just remember that the Left mocked and derided and insulted and completely dismissed Trump in 2016.

The Dems aren't going to get this insane idea through, even if a Dem wins in 2020, but their strategy is to get some of it. For now. Start the momentum.

So you'll need to decide if a smart, thoughtful contrary approach might not be a bad idea.
.

BTW, we have one already, it's called what we got.

 

[The Original Tree]

• Global Warming: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Income Inequality: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Guranteed Income: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Free Universal Healthcare: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• The New Green Deal: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Paris Climate Accord: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Calling Hydrocarbons Fossil Fuels: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Universal Free College Education: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Open Borders Open Immigration: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Sanctuary Cities: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Adhering to United Nations Protocols, Policies, Treaties or Mandates: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Granting Asylum to Cultures unable to and unwilling to assimilate in to US Culture: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Signing and abiding by so called Free Trade Agreements instead of negotiating as a Sovereign Nation on a one on one basis for "Fair Trade" : Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule

 

[jc456]

• Global Warming: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Income Inequality: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Guranteed Income: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Free Universal Healthcare: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• The New Green Deal: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Paris Climate Accord: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Calling Hydrocarbons Fossil Fuels: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Universal Free College Education: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Open Borders Open Immigration: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Sanctuary Cities: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Adhering to United Nations Protocols, Policies, Treaties or Mandates: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Granting Asylum to Cultures unable to and unwilling to assimilate in to US Culture: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Signing and abiding by so called Free Trade Agreements instead of negotiating as a Sovereign Nation on a one on one basis for "Fair Trade" : Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule

that's one big vehicle.

 

[The Original Tree]

• Global Warming: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Income Inequality: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Guranteed Income: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Free Universal Healthcare: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• The New Green Deal: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Paris Climate Accord: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Calling Hydrocarbons Fossil Fuels: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Universal Free College Education: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Open Borders Open Immigration: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Sanctuary Cities: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Adhering to United Nations Protocols, Policies, Treaties or Mandates: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Granting Asylum to Cultures unable to and unwilling to assimilate in to US Culture: Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule
• Signing and abiding by so called Free Trade Agreements instead of negotiating as a Sovereign Nation on a one on one basis for "Fair Trade" : Vehicle to Install Socialism and Global Rule

that's one big vehicle.

It's an Al Gore Jumbo Jet Sized Hydrocarbon Guzzling vehicle.

Just for them that is, not you. You can walk or ride a bike which will make you exhale more Evil CO2 at which point we will have to kill you for poisoning the environment and daring to breath.

 

[Thinker101]

Control can also mean regulation, dumbass dupe. Like every intelligent rich country in the world that doesn't have greedy idiot GOP dupes running things... Everywhere outside your bubble of stupid ignorance and garbage propaganda, socialism is defined as well regulated capitalism with a good safety net. "We are all socialists now!" --Finland prime minister when ObamaCare passed... Guess what shithead dupe? Everyone in the world but you brainwashed jackasses who deny global warming and progressive taxation know what socialism is since people found out the USSR was a totalitarian scam. Most successful modern countries have socialist parties and none of them thinks socialism is communism. Wake up and smell the coffee. Only the brainwashed GOP morons...

No you ignorant and uneducated sot, socialism is not capitalism of any form.

Capitalism is based on a free market. Prices are determined by supply and demand. Now you're in my backyard. Arguing economics with me is very dumb, as you have found on dozens of occasions.

The issue we have is that you lack a grasp of the most basic and fundamental concepts. I speak of the market, but you have no idea what that means. Simply put, a market is an exchange of value for value. The seller will relinquish goods if the value of money offered is greater TO HIM than the value of his good. The buyer will offer cash if the goods are of greater value TO HIM than the cash. No one save the buyer and seller have input into what the value of the goods are. Price then follows the judgement of buyers and sellers.

I teach freshmen who grasp these concepts, but YOU fucking don't, regardless of how many times and how basic I explain it to you. Under socialism, the GOVERNMENT is the only entity that decides value. The market is perverted. Under Communism the market is eradicated. Any system where an entity other than the buyer or seller set the price of goods is NOT capitalism.

Would it be socialism if we taxed millionaires and billionaires at 70%?

No, just insanely stupid.

I get it, a thriving economy ensures Trump wins reelection in 2020. You leftists are desperate to throw the breaks on the economy. America suffering is democrats winning.

Based on what.

Based on what? Pull your head out of your rear. Based on all the "progress" Democrats have made in the last two years.

 

[Obejoekenobe]

They claim that man made pollution of the air is causing the climate of the planet to change

"They claim?”

You mean science shows.

 

[Ame®icano]

They claim that man made pollution of the air is causing the climate of the planet to change

"They claim?”

You mean science shows.

No, science proves.

Those who cook the data before they show it are not scientists, they're activists.