"Gun Appreciation Day" Didn't Work Out So Well,..

[bigrebnc1775]

Here's a piece from FactCheck.org which debunks the myth that Australian murder rates have gone down since strict gun control laws were put into place. Gun murders, have decreased by half since the laws were first enacted in 1996:

FactCheck.org : Gun Control in Australia

http://www.usmessageboard.com/6673083-post1.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/6513015-post1.html

 

[Ringel05]

Ringel -

No, if you've read it I take my hat off to you.

I wouldn't suggest anyone read that and that alone, I just think it's a good part of understanding some of the issues. I'm fine with people disagreeing with their conclusions, but a few posters on their site just aren't interested in reading.

I agree, most will not read anything that might counter their argument and automatically dismiss such research as trash. All statistical research has at least some degree of truth, the problem generally lies in the collation and interpretation of said data. I generally distrust academic research due to the fact most of it is carried out in a purely clinical vacuum, separated from real world conditions which frequently tends to skew results.
Other issues are definitions and their applications, categorizations and inherent bias that can ultimately work their way into the process.

 

[Saigon]

Here's a piece from FactCheck.org which debunks the myth that Australian murder rates have gone down since strict gun control laws were put into place. Gun murders, have decreased by half since the laws were first enacted in 1996:

FactCheck.org : Gun Control in Australia

http://www.usmessageboard.com/6673083-post1.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/6513015-post1.html

Big Reb -

I think everyone is aware that Australian gun control legislation has worked very well - and I say that as someone who was in Australia as recently as 3 weeks ago.

You can establish this fairly easily for yourself with real facts and numbers.

Linking to dead youtube accounts is hardly going to impress anyone.

 

[Saigon]

I agree, most will not read anything that might counter their argument and automatically dismiss such research as trash. All statistical research has at least some degree of truth, the problem generally lies in the collation and interpretation of said data. I generally distrust academic research due to the fact most of it is carried out in a purely clinical vacuum, separated from real world conditions which frequently tends to skew results.
Other issues are definitions and their applications, categorizations and inherent bias that can ultimately work their way into the process.

Yes, definitely - I couldn't agree more. My wife is an academic (not sciences, thank god) and certainly some of her work is so theoretical it makes me scream!!

 

[Dragonlady]

Other articles debunking the myth that gun control has had no effect on gun murders and suicides in Australia.

Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Here's a piece from FactCheck.org which debunks the myth that Australian murder rates have gone down since strict gun control laws were put into place. Gun murders, have decreased by half since the laws were first enacted in 1996:

FactCheck.org : Gun Control in Australia

http://www.usmessageboard.com/6673083-post1.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/6513015-post1.html

Big Reb -

I think everyone is aware that Australian gun control legislation has worked very well - and I say that as someone who was in Australia as recently as 3 weeks ago.

You can establish this fairly easily for yourself with real facts and numbers.

Linking to dead youtube accounts is hardly going to impress anyone.

Doesn't look like it worked, oh that's right it only stopped mass killings.
Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

OH and that video?

[ame=http://youtu.be/Sv1CRLMTebo]Gun Control - Watch What Happens When Guns Are Banned - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Saigon]

Oh dear.

Homocide rates:

Australia: 1.0

USA: 4.8

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Oh dear.

Homocide rates:

Australia: 1.0

USA: 4.8

oh dear you have a greater chance of being a victim in Australia than in the U.S. and being a victim leads to other things even murder.

Worldwide – U.S. Ranks 1st in Gun Ownership and 28th in Gun Homicide

Assault victims Australia 2.4% U.S. 1.2%

Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th

Rape victims Australia 1% U.S. 0.4%
Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States Ranked 13th.

Perception of safety > Walking in dark Australia 64% U.S. 82%
reporting that they feel safe walking in the dark.

Ranked 14th. Ranked 2nd. 28% more than Australia

NationMaster - Crime stats: Australia vs United States

 

[Saigon]

BigReb -

You just aren't going to win this one, man. It's just too easy, too obvious.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

BigReb -

You just aren't going to win this one, man. It's just too easy, too obvious.

Worldwide – U.S. Ranks 1st in Gun Ownership and 28th in Gun Homicide

 

[Dragonlady]

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

OH and that video?

Gun Control - Watch What Happens When Guns Are Banned - YouTube

The article you linked to was from a right wing American think tank with no links to support their assertions. That's hardly an unbiased source which you set as the only acceptable criteria for you to believe, so no sell there.

Your video appears to be made in the US, but there is no source. There is no TV station or television network logo shown onscreen, which would be present if this was an actual broadcast news piece. At no time does the reporter identify herself or her station/network. At the very least there should a sign off by saying "This is Lois Lane reporting for DPTV, but there isn't even that.

As for the video content, it's interviews with three what purports to be three disgruntled former gun owners. Your neighbour could have rounded up three Aussie blokes she knows, and cobbled the whole thing together on her computer. There are no statistics, no interviews with any sort of public official to discuss the purported increases in crime.

I provided multiple links from diverse right wing and non-partisan sources, with further links to government reports, all of which debunk the uncredited right wing materials you linked to.

You set the standards for the "proofs" and then failed to meet them yourself. Nice work.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Why don't you post a chart of murder rates, not just "gun related murder rates."

Because this is discussion is about gun laws - and the fact that we KNOW that countries with stricter gun control laws have far, far lower rates of gun-related deaths is the point under discussion here.

Total murder rate starts are widely available - you will note that the US has a higher total homicide rate than any other major developed country.

Kinda funny that if you were to take away guns from a couple of ethnic groups our murder rate would be one of the lowest in the world.
Why not fix the real problem? Or is it just one of those things we cant do anything about?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

They can't get in my yard without my dogs growling.

A ball peen hammer and a meat treat = Sleepy puppy

My Mastiff doesn't trust strangers and objects to anyone coming near me, even a child. The other dog is more friendly, but makes a lot of noise and is very alert.

So what happens when your dangerous pet bites someone?
Like maybe one of those kids he's so fond of.

At least a gun only goes off when you pull the trigger. Unlike your killer dog who could go off at anytime.

I think we should just go ahead and kill your dog before he hurts someone.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Most of the gun violence in Canada is gang related too. Motorcycle gangs control a lot of illegal drug trade and they have extremely violent histories. And American street gangs are actively recruiting members in Canada, providing arms. We also have offshoots of various Asian gangs, Jamaican gangs, Russian mobs, and immigrants bringing foreign tribal disbutes to the country they came to in order to escape the violence in their home countries. Last but certainly not least in this wonderful ethnic soup, we do have Mafia in Canada.

And yet, with the possible exception of the motorcycle gangs, (the Hell's Angels are responsible for 165 murders in the Province of Quebec alone, between 1994 and 2001, and they aren't the only motorcycle gang in the murder business), there are suprising few murders. Whenever things get out of hand with the gangs in Toronto, the police in all Greater Toronto area jurisdictions run wire taps on known gang members and their affiliates and then stage pre-dawn raids with search warrants.

Since even being in possession of a handgun is illegal, punishable by 2 years in jail, it's easy to put these guys behind bars. The police get 100 or so gang bangers off the streetes, not to mention guns seized, drugs seized, etc.

Hunting rifles and shotguns are legal. Automatic weapons and sawed off shotguns are not. Canadians are hearty outdoors people. My brothers went deer hunting every fall. Since they never once shot a deer, we suspect they hung out in the cabin smoking and drinking most of the week. Every farmer I know has a gun, in case they have to shoot an animal, so Canadians are not barred from using rifles or going hunting.

By they are barred from standing their ground. A store owner in Toronto shot a guy armed with a pocket knife who tried to rob his store. The store owner was charged with shooting the robber, because his response to the threat was way out of proportion to the actual threat posed by the pocket knife. The store owner actually owned the handgun legally. He had friends on the police force who got him a permit, but he was NOT allowed to have a loaded gun in his store.

Any country that would prosecute a store owner for protecting his life and store is about as backassward as you can get.
I dont care what kind of weapon the criminal had. He was planning on doing harm and got what he deserved. I hope the store owner shot him multiple times...I would have.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

OH and that video?

Gun Control - Watch What Happens When Guns Are Banned - YouTube

The article you linked to was from a right wing American think tank with no links to support their assertions. That's hardly an unbiased source which you set as the only acceptable criteria for you to believe, so no sell there.

Your video appears to be made in the US, but there is no source. There is no TV station or television network logo shown onscreen, which would be present if this was an actual broadcast news piece. At no time does the reporter identify herself or her station/network. At the very least there should a sign off by saying "This is Lois Lane reporting for DPTV, but there isn't even that.

As for the video content, it's interviews with three what purports to be three disgruntled former gun owners. Your neighbour could have rounded up three Aussie blokes she knows, and cobbled the whole thing together on her computer. There are no statistics, no interviews with any sort of public official to discuss the purported increases in crime.

I provided multiple links from diverse right wing and non-partisan sources, with further links to government reports, all of which debunk the uncredited right wing materials you linked to.

You set the standards for the "proofs" and then failed to meet them yourself. Nice work.

The article came from......get this.....
Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics

 

[Dragonlady]

The article came from......get this.....
Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics

No it didn't. At the bottom of the link it says:

For text:

Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban - Austin gun rights | Examiner.com

The Examiner.com is a right wing blog owned by Phillip Anschultz.

Again, do you read this shit before you post links?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The article came from......get this.....
Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics

No it didn't. At the bottom of the link it says:

For text:

Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban - Austin gun rights | Examiner.com

The Examiner.com is a right wing blog owned by Phillip Anschultz.

Again, do you read this shit before you post links?

You want too see the data one more time? of course you don't But I don't give a fuck

Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

And let's not forget about this

oh dear you have a greater chance of being a victim in Australia than in the U.S. and being a victim leads to other things even murder.

Worldwide – U.S. Ranks 1st in Gun Ownership and 28th in Gun Homicide

Assault victims Australia 2.4% U.S. 1.2%

Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th

Rape victims Australia 1% U.S. 0.4%
Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States Ranked 13th.

Perception of safety > Walking in dark Australia 64% U.S. 82%
reporting that they feel safe walking in the dark.

Ranked 14th. Ranked 2nd. 28% more than Australia

NationMaster - Crime stats: Australia vs United States

 

[Dragonlady]

Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

I want the link to where the Australian Bureau of Crime and Research says this because so far, you have two right wing blogs saying that the Austrailian Bureau of Crime and Researched have said this, BECAUSE THERE IS NO LINK TO THAT ARTICLE, JUST A BUNCH OF RIGHT WINGERS SAYING THAT THIS IS WHAT THE BUREAU SAID.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A LINK TO THE ORIGINAL GOVERNMENT REPORT, YOU'VE GOT NO PROOF THEY EVER SAID SUCH A THING.

 

[Ernie S.]

The article came from......get this.....
Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics

No it didn't. At the bottom of the link it says:

For text:

Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban - Austin gun rights | Examiner.com

The Examiner.com is a right wing blog owned by Phillip Anschultz.

Again, do you read this shit before you post links?

From the article:

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

The main article is linked, though it appears you must subscribe to view it. I'll assume that the information above is correct, that is, of course unless you come up with verifiable proof it is not.