Gun Control - What's the Problem?

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[2aguy]

No…we don't object to everything proposed……we oppose licensing gun owners, registering guns and universal background checks.

We support prison sentences for criminals who use guns to commit crimes…long ones. And for most felons, they should not be able to own guns..and if they are caught with a gun they should be sent immediately to jail….

Those two points cover just about everything you need to keep gun crime down….we just aren't doing either one...

Stronger law enforcement and harsher punishments are fine if you thats what you want to promote, I could agree with you on that. I personally don't believe you are going to scare people away from committing crimes... Many do it out of desperation, poverty, or because they survive in a gang or criminal type environment, and there are tons of ways we can also work on that. If background checks or stricter regulations reduces gun exposure, reduces gun related accidents, theft, accessibility, suicides, etc. , even if its only by a fraction then I believe that is a good thing. Yes you as a gun owner may need to spend a little more time to get your license or you may have to pay a little more to buy a gun, but in the long run if it reduces death then does even a little bit to help weed out some of the wreckless people who own guns it may be a worthy sacrifice.

I personally don't believe you are going to scare people away from committing crimes..

it isn't about scaring people out of committing crimes it is isolating violent criminals from the normal people for as long as possible. That is how you stop gun crime.....

 

[Slade3200]

" I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives!"

I had a gun stolen from a LOCKED vehicle while sitting on PRIVATE PROPERTY. When you can tell me what background check will keep that gun out of the wrong hands, I'll support you. You're not the first person I've asked what background check will that THIEF will go through before he/she can have my gun. I doubt you, like the rest of them, have an answer.

So given your logic would you propose to get rid of background checks all together and let anybody regardless of their background walk into a store and purchase a firearm?

 

[2aguy]

No…we don't object to everything proposed……we oppose licensing gun owners, registering guns and universal background checks.

We support prison sentences for criminals who use guns to commit crimes…long ones. And for most felons, they should not be able to own guns..and if they are caught with a gun they should be sent immediately to jail….

Those two points cover just about everything you need to keep gun crime down….we just aren't doing either one...

Stronger law enforcement and harsher punishments are fine if you thats what you want to promote, I could agree with you on that. I personally don't believe you are going to scare people away from committing crimes... Many do it out of desperation, poverty, or because they survive in a gang or criminal type environment, and there are tons of ways we can also work on that. If background checks or stricter regulations reduces gun exposure, reduces gun related accidents, theft, accessibility, suicides, etc. , even if its only by a fraction then I believe that is a good thing. Yes you as a gun owner may need to spend a little more time to get your license or you may have to pay a little more to buy a gun, but in the long run if it reduces death then does even a little bit to help weed out some of the wreckless people who own guns it may be a worthy sacrifice.

If background checks or stricter regulations reduces gun exposure, reduces gun related accidents, theft, accessibility, suicides, etc. , even if its only by a fraction then I believe that is a good thing.

Have you done any actual research on the topic......? As more Americans own and carry guns...our gun accident rate has gone down, our gun murder rate has gone down....our gun suicide rate has gone down..........so you are wrong on all points....

Background checks do nothing to stop gun violence or mass shootings...do you realize that? How do background checks reduce gun accidents? Only safety training does that and anti gun groups oppose teaching gun safety in schools.....

And what if you are poor....and you can't afford the license or a little more to buy a gun...and you live where the police do not go...........so you are excluded from exercising your Right to the 2nd Amendment because you can't afford it..right?

That in and of itself is a violation of the 14th Amendment and the equal protection clause.....that is what shut down democrat Poll Taxes on blacks voting....because they used fees and taxes to keep a Right from being accessed by poor blacks.....

 

[2aguy]

No. There is none. 20,000 gun laws on the books and the only thing that has been PROVEN to reduce crime is to incarcerate the bad guys. That works. Everything else doesn't. The discussion is not exaggerated. We have over 1500 years of history that shows weapons being registered, then confiscated, then the country turning totalitarian and mass murder ensues. It is a pattern that THINKING people recognize. First is tribal, then autocracy, then Republic, then some form of socialism, which then devolves to totalitarianism which after a period of time leads to another revolution and then a Republic again if you're lucky.

Here's the deal. There are lots of other governmental systems out there. How about you move to the one you like and leave this one alone. We have ONE true Constitutional Republic on this planet. It has progressed further, faster, than any country before it. How about you leave this country alone and go live in the other countries you think are better.

You speak to gun crime but there is a wider conversation about gun related deaths... It is a responsibility and misuse issue. We aren't going to let a 5 year old or a blind person behind the wheel of a car because it is unsafe for others. In the same right we shouldn't let a reckless person own a gun so making our system better to help with that is a good thing. Like I said, it is a small step to a big problem with many other solutions. Why do you all fight so hard to discredit good ideas and block initiatives when you could be working towards a better solution. Do you not see how your tone in the conversation is polarizing and destructive?

we actually have solutions...but they do not require giving up access to guns....that is why they are rejected by anti gunners....

teach gun safety in pubic schools....

Lock up people who commit crimes with guns

Lock up felons caught in possession of guns....

And there are most of your concerns addressed without violating any innocent persons rights......

 

[Slade3200]

it isn't about scaring people out of committing crimes it is isolating violent criminals from the normal people for as long as possible. That is how you stop gun crime.....

I agree, law enforcement and prosecuting criminals are important, both are areas that can and should be improved. Along with that is working on the the factors that drive people to use guns to kill... Mental illness, poverty, desperation, thug life etc... All are small pieces of a big puzzle. One that is never going to get finished if we are all hiding pieces from eachother. At some point we need to work on the puzzle together. Keep driving hate and animosity and all your going to get is stronger blow back. We all should be smarter than this.

 

[2aguy]

" I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives!"

I had a gun stolen from a LOCKED vehicle while sitting on PRIVATE PROPERTY. When you can tell me what background check will keep that gun out of the wrong hands, I'll support you. You're not the first person I've asked what background check will that THIEF will go through before he/she can have my gun. I doubt you, like the rest of them, have an answer.

So given your logic would you propose to get rid of background checks all together and let anybody regardless of their background walk into a store and purchase a firearm?

The current background check system needs to be made immediate and no record keeping, no fee.....a pass/fail...you give them your drivers license or any other state issued I.D., they run it for felonies and you get a pass or fail and get the gun right then and there if you pass.

That is a common point we can all agree to....knowing that criminals do not undergo background checks...they will get someone who can pass the check to buy the guns for them.......but background checks seem to make you guys happy....as long as individual "transfers" are left alone...which means I can sell a gun to a family member without a background check, or lend a gun to a friend for a hunting trip or to try it out at the range to see if they want to buy one........


Mass shooters will also not be affected...they can pass the background check...or they steal their guns or buy them illegally......


but, if you meet the above requiements for background checks I could meet you there........since it doesn't cost anything and does not create a permanent record.


Any problem with that?

 

[2aguy]

it isn't about scaring people out of committing crimes it is isolating violent criminals from the normal people for as long as possible. That is how you stop gun crime.....

I agree, law enforcement and prosecuting criminals are important, both are areas that can and should be improved. Along with that is working on the the factors that drive people to use guns to kill... Mental illness, poverty, desperation, thug life etc... All are small pieces of a big puzzle. One that is never going to get finished if we are all hiding pieces from eachother. At some point we need to work on the puzzle together. Keep driving hate and animosity and all your going to get is stronger blow back. We all should be smarter than this.

We are...the criminals aren't....have you ever read about criminal thought processes......try it...and you will see the problem..they are not tragic cases...they think differently form normal people......

 

[Wildman]

I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.

i am absolutely certain you do not understand a fucking thing about guns and control, as far as enlightening you, i believe you are way too far out of it for anyone to enlighten!!

 

[Slade3200]

No…we don't object to everything proposed……we oppose licensing gun owners, registering guns and universal background checks.

We support prison sentences for criminals who use guns to commit crimes…long ones. And for most felons, they should not be able to own guns..and if they are caught with a gun they should be sent immediately to jail….

Those two points cover just about everything you need to keep gun crime down….we just aren't doing either one...

Stronger law enforcement and harsher punishments are fine if you thats what you want to promote, I could agree with you on that. I personally don't believe you are going to scare people away from committing crimes... Many do it out of desperation, poverty, or because they survive in a gang or criminal type environment, and there are tons of ways we can also work on that. If background checks or stricter regulations reduces gun exposure, reduces gun related accidents, theft, accessibility, suicides, etc. , even if its only by a fraction then I believe that is a good thing. Yes you as a gun owner may need to spend a little more time to get your license or you may have to pay a little more to buy a gun, but in the long run if it reduces death then does even a little bit to help weed out some of the wreckless people who own guns it may be a worthy sacrifice.

If background checks or stricter regulations reduces gun exposure, reduces gun related accidents, theft, accessibility, suicides, etc. , even if its only by a fraction then I believe that is a good thing.

Have you done any actual research on the topic......? As more Americans own and carry guns...our gun accident rate has gone down, our gun murder rate has gone down....our gun suicide rate has gone down..........so you are wrong on all points....

Background checks do nothing to stop gun violence or mass shootings...do you realize that? How do background checks reduce gun accidents? Only safety training does that and anti gun groups oppose teaching gun safety in schools.....

And what if you are poor....and you can't afford the license or a little more to buy a gun...and you live where the police do not go...........so you are excluded from exercising your Right to the 2nd Amendment because you can't afford it..right?

That in and of itself is a violation of the 14th Amendment and the equal protection clause.....that is what shut down democrat Poll Taxes on blacks voting....because they used fees and taxes to keep a Right from being accessed by poor blacks.....

I agree with many of your points and wish more of the discussion on this thread was of this caliber. I'm not a liberal anti-gun person but have been painted into that corner from the engagement of many in this thread. I don't think BG checks are going to do a much to stop bad guys from getting guns. I do think people should have a background check before getting a gun, so lets make that process as good as possible. When somebody tries to do something to work on a problem and a group aggressively attacks and criticizes all efforts we all end up in a polarized deadlock. I also don't like the blind opposition and rederic that surrounds this issue.

 

[Wildman]

I'm still not hearing an argument that I understand

of course not! you have a closed mind.., did you even read the first 10 posts? i think not!, did you see the word INCREMENTALISM? i believe NOT!!

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Incrementalism is the problem.

Plus the fact that the proposals would prevent no criminal from acquiring a firearm.

Deal with the criminals and the insane. Take them off the street, permanently if necessary. Leave the real people alone.

Define "insane"; Define "Real People"; and Define "Criminal". They are all subjective terms having no worth beyond being an echo of others who work so hard to derail real debate on the issue of Guns in America.

Democrats.

Americans.

Anyone with one conviction of unprovoked violent crime.

They are not subjective terms.

The debate is over. You people lost.

 

[Wildman]

I am 36 and the odds of us facing a tyrannical US government is about as likely as seeing a unicorn.

36???? you are too damn young to grasp the situation.

heed this>>>>--------> .

 

[Wildman]

Why do you think there is a 2nd amendment?

damn good question.., his? or her? reply if answered will be a real doozy

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

" I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives!"

I had a gun stolen from a LOCKED vehicle while sitting on PRIVATE PROPERTY. When you can tell me what background check will keep that gun out of the wrong hands, I'll support you. You're not the first person I've asked what background check will that THIEF will go through before he/she can have my gun. I doubt you, like the rest of them, have an answer.

So given your logic would you propose to get rid of background checks all together and let anybody regardless of their background walk into a store and purchase a firearm?

I don't know why you can't understand that we already have background checks. If you buy a gun from a licensed dealer, if you apply for a carry permit, if you buy a gun from a dealer at a gun show, you will have a background check.

Now if you buy a gun from your neighbor or family member, you do not need a background check, however, we don't have many mass murders or murders otherwise where guns were obtained from such sources.

 

[Wildman]

What is with all the references to the war on drugs?? I don't see the relation,

of course not, you are a 36? y.o. baby!!

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.

Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...

Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.


View attachment 59771

Your trust in government is misplaced.
America is one of the last places where the government is concerned that the populace,if pushed to far have the ability to oust said government....and I'd prefer to keep it that way.

Your premise is absurd. Our government for the most part changes every two years, during every even year we elect members of Congress who ought to be vetted by the voters after each term has been completed.

We elect a new President at least every 8 years, and members of the President's cabinet find new jobs often before the first term is complete. Military officers retire and only judges and justices of the USSC remain in power for decades.

We have the most stable system of government to have ever existed on the world's stage.

The system is stable. The current seated government is not.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.

Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...

Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.


View attachment 59771

Your trust in government is misplaced.
America is one of the last places where the government is concerned that the populace,if pushed to far have the ability to oust said government....and I'd prefer to keep it that way.

Your premise is absurd. Our government for the most part changes every two years, during every even year we elect members of Congress who ought to be vetted by the voters after each term has been completed.

We elect a new President at least every 8 years, and members of the President's cabinet find new jobs often before the first term is complete. Military officers retire and only judges and justices of the USSC remain in power for decades.

We have the most stable system of government to have ever existed on the world's stage.

The system is stable. The current seated government is not.

At this point the system is corrupted as well.