Gun Control - What's the Problem?

[2aguy]

Building bombs and molesting children are crimes. Somebody saying they are a white supremacist or saying they hate Mexicans on social media is not.

Regardless, in order to spy on anybody, you need a surveillance warrant to do that. Image how backlogged our courts would be with 20 million cases of accusations every year.

Then there is the fact that building bombs or molesting children are not constitutional rights. The right to bear arms is. That means the accused is allowed to have their day in court. You simply can't take away a constitutional right without a proper court hearing, and the ability of the accused to appeal decisions ruled against them.

But even if we had the ability to entertain all that, are you going to tell me that will stop all mass gun murders?

See you use another faux argument. I never said it would stop ALL mass gun murders. You are clearly not interested in having an honest debate as you make up shit to debate that I neither said nor implied. I’m not going to waste anymore time correcting your dishonesty. Perhaps we can pick up the debate some other time once you’ve grown up a bit.

That’s not what you’re pissed about. You’re pissed because I pointed out the many flaws in your proposal.

If your suggestion isn’t going to stop mass shootings, then why bother to inconvenience all other gun owners in the country if it isn’t going to solve anything?

See, the Democrat party also know their proposals won’t stop anything either. And when it doesn’t, on to the next set of laws that will have the same results. In the end, we will be stuck with a bunch of laws that don’t accomplish anything that we will never be able to get rid of. What it will do is make purchasing and keeping a firearm such a hassle, such a problem, and likely such an expense that most law abiding people will just not deal with it and remain unarmed.

It’s all part of the big plan.

How do you know that gun laws haven’t prevented death? It’s common sense to me. What you call an inconvenience also serves as a deterrent. It prevents people from making emotional decisions, it makes high risk people go through other means to get guns and lessens their killing power. The kid who shot up a group with a hand gun would have done much more damage if he could have stopped by the local Big 5 and bought an uzi on his way to school.

Get it?

We are to the point where there have been so many mass shootings that it's hard to remember. But I don't recall a mass murder where the weapons involved were obtained through "other means" that could have been prevented.

In Sandy Hook, the kid did attempt to buy firearms and was denied with our current system. So he killed his mother and used her weapons instead. In Columbine, the shooters were under age which prevented them from legally buying guns in their names. They used straw purchasers who claim they didn't know the intent of the shooters. While they were strange kids and did have juvenile criminal records, nobody suspected they were capable of anything like what they did.

In these last two shootings, I believe the suspects were allowed to buy guns, just like the kook in the Las Vegas shooting. I also believe most of the shooters in mass murderers didn't have a record either.

The point is there is no way to determine who might do what in most cases. So to say that these initiatives will not stop mass murders, but will make them a little better is hardly worth the inconvenience of the rest of the country.

Well there you go, you are proving my point. Sandy hook guy tried to buy but couldn’t so he had to use what his mom had. What if all the GC deniers had their way and there were no regulations? What if sandy hook guy could have just bought an uzi? How many more kids would be dead?

You don't know what you are talking about.....the Sandy Hook shooter could have legally bought guns, there was nothing to stop him in a background check.

An uzi wouldn't have killed any more kids....he chose Sandy Hook because it was the only school that he attended as boy that didn't have a police officer on premises.....it was a gun free zone.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Building bombs and molesting children are crimes. Somebody saying they are a white supremacist or saying they hate Mexicans on social media is not.

Regardless, in order to spy on anybody, you need a surveillance warrant to do that. Image how backlogged our courts would be with 20 million cases of accusations every year.

Then there is the fact that building bombs or molesting children are not constitutional rights. The right to bear arms is. That means the accused is allowed to have their day in court. You simply can't take away a constitutional right without a proper court hearing, and the ability of the accused to appeal decisions ruled against them.

But even if we had the ability to entertain all that, are you going to tell me that will stop all mass gun murders?

See you use another faux argument. I never said it would stop ALL mass gun murders. You are clearly not interested in having an honest debate as you make up shit to debate that I neither said nor implied. I’m not going to waste anymore time correcting your dishonesty. Perhaps we can pick up the debate some other time once you’ve grown up a bit.

That’s not what you’re pissed about. You’re pissed because I pointed out the many flaws in your proposal.

If your suggestion isn’t going to stop mass shootings, then why bother to inconvenience all other gun owners in the country if it isn’t going to solve anything?

See, the Democrat party also know their proposals won’t stop anything either. And when it doesn’t, on to the next set of laws that will have the same results. In the end, we will be stuck with a bunch of laws that don’t accomplish anything that we will never be able to get rid of. What it will do is make purchasing and keeping a firearm such a hassle, such a problem, and likely such an expense that most law abiding people will just not deal with it and remain unarmed.

It’s all part of the big plan.

How do you know that gun laws haven’t prevented death? It’s common sense to me. What you call an inconvenience also serves as a deterrent. It prevents people from making emotional decisions, it makes high risk people go through other means to get guns and lessens their killing power. The kid who shot up a group with a hand gun would have done much more damage if he could have stopped by the local Big 5 and bought an uzi on his way to school.

Get it?

What I get is that the kid who mows down people in a mass shooting could be identified and stopped - even helped and their life put back on the right track IF we concentrated on the ROOT OF THE PROBLEM. Watch your local news after a mass shooting. The people that know the shooter will say we knew that was going to happen, it didn't come as a surprise, etc.

We know long before these young people kill someone, but don't do a damn thing to prevent it. Then you don't help them and their first encounter with police as an adult is after they've killed someone.

I don't think people like YOU get it.

The gun isn't the root of the problem

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

That is EXACTLY what I said. I do not condone gun control in any shape, fashion or form.

 

[2aguy]

I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.

Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...

Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.


View attachment 59771

you forget what happened to all of our cars when we were forced to get licenses!


every car was confiscated!


and then when they forced us to get wedding licenses our brides were all rounded up and taken away!


same thing will happen with guns!

Then tell me what is the purpose of registering a car.

If you don't know I'll tell you

You have to register a car primarily so the state can tax you.

Since there is no legal way to put an excise tax on guns what is the purpose of registering them?

Let’s keep going... Why are licenses given for cars?

Owning a car is not a Right. Democrats used Poll Taxes to charge a fee against Blacks for the Right to vote, and it was struck down under the 14th Amendment.

Murdock v Pennsylvania states that you can't be charged a fee to exercise a Right...

That is why licensing gun owners is unConstitutional.

Im so tired of the knee jerk reaction “driving isn’t a right” retort. that has nothing to do with his point which was regarding the effects of licensing and registration

It has everything to do with the point...... and if licensing was such a fix for cars, why do they kill 38,000 people?

Registration does nothing for guns...other than allow politicians to confiscate them...which we have seen all over the world.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Believe it or not, there are some problems that can't be solved.......not even by your precious government.

You want doctors, many who are leftists, to be able to determine if you are capable of exercising your constitutional rights? How about if we apply the same standards to voting? Would you be acceptable of that? What about free speech?

Family, friends, employers? Those people running to the government to get even with you for quitting your job, breaking up with your wife, a disagreement over a game of pool are not spying?

So let's say a family member reported either of these to recent shooters. How is government going to determine if they are mentally incompetent unless they do spy on these people? Just take the word of a family member or what? Or are you suggesting that it's okay to spy on them after they've been reported?

What a silly way to frame it. If a kid told the police that his teacher molested him do you think the police have a right to spy on that teacher?

If a neighbor reports their Muslim neighbors with suspicions that they are building bombs do you think the authorities have the right to spy on the accused?

No, they do not have the right to spy on the teacher in any way that breaches the teacher's rights to be free from government intrusion. They must get a warrant. They have probable cause to get a warrant, but they must go through the process.

Same with the alleged bomb makers.

You seem to want to SKIP that whole pesky warrant process and have anybody make any kind of false claim, including divorcing spouses (especially) and rights get FUCKED RIGHT UP THE ASS!!!!

Quit being a statist authoritarian. DO NOT TRUST GOVERNMENT....EVER!!!! Government is made up of people who do NOT have your interests in mind.

.

i don’t want to skip anything, I want to create and discuss ideas for a good process to implement. You seem to not want to do anything because your scared of the boogeyman and the slippery slope he is on.

It is NOT a boogeyman.
Clearly the federal government is extremely corrupt, and should not be making any weapons laws at all.
If you want gun control laws, that is fine.
But state or local, where everyone has a chance to say something.
Federal laws are impossible to influence or prevent from being totally corrupt.
Just look at the way the feds lied about WMD in Iraq, and murdered over half a million innocent people.
Then there is Waco and Ruby Ridge.
We don't need more federal weapons laws, we need to eliminate ALL federal weapons, drug, or any law that is supposed to be local jurisdiction.

At least you’re consistent at being wrong.

Government has the authority to regulate firearms, to place limits and restrictions on the sale and possession of guns – including the Federal government – as long as those limits and restrictions are consistent with Second Amendment case law.

They have the POWER to do it; they do not have the AUTHORITY

 

[2aguy]

Human beings are far too complex for that. People don't follow protocols. You can take two people and put them both under the same conditions and through the same stuff. One will crack up and go nuts. The other with pass with flying colors and shrug it off like nothing. Personally, I don't need the government having some deep psych-ops profile on every tiny detail of my family and life in order to even come close to making that work. Because if they can do that, they can predict my attitudes, likes, preferences, choices, fears, interests and everything else to have total control of my life. I chose not to live in 1984. Bye.

I’m not calling for government run deep psychological ops. A majority of Americans would agree that they dont think mentally unstable people should have guns. So we should determine a set of indicators and criteria that can be used to flag at risk people and then make sure those people dont have easy access to weapons. It’s not a difficult concept to get behind.

I get that you want to protect your guns. Maybe you are a looney tune so you are fighting back against this I don’t know. But most dont think crazy people should have guns. Simple concept

It’s not a difficult concept to get behind.

It is when you realize that implementing it will lead to all sorts of abuse.....

What criteria? Who decides? How do you appeal? Who pays for the appeal?

Great questions. Let get a plan in place and answer those. Right now we are stuck in this game of all or nothing. I don’t see why it’s dofficult for the majority of us to agree on the simple notion that responsible people should have guns and high risk people shouldn’t. The first step is to agree on that. Then put a process in place that determines how it’s executed

The first step was for one side to admit that we have an individual right to keep and bear arms.

That first step FAILED MISERABLY!!!

The gun-grabbers made us fight that out in Court, and we barely prevailed in a 5-4 SCOTUS decision.

Those who want regulation have a LONG way to go to earn our trust, would you not agree?

.

No I don’t agree... instead of fighting everything with an absolutist attitude and spreading fear of the slippery slope I’d rather see you get on board with ideas to help improve the situation. You spend all your time fighting against everything and not enough presenting better ideas. It’s counterproductive

None of your ideas improve the situation.....at all...

 

[Porter Rockwell]

What a silly way to frame it. If a kid told the police that his teacher molested him do you think the police have a right to spy on that teacher?

If a neighbor reports their Muslim neighbors with suspicions that they are building bombs do you think the authorities have the right to spy on the accused?

Building bombs and molesting children are crimes. Somebody saying they are a white supremacist or saying they hate Mexicans on social media is not.

Regardless, in order to spy on anybody, you need a surveillance warrant to do that. Image how backlogged our courts would be with 20 million cases of accusations every year.

Then there is the fact that building bombs or molesting children are not constitutional rights. The right to bear arms is. That means the accused is allowed to have their day in court. You simply can't take away a constitutional right without a proper court hearing, and the ability of the accused to appeal decisions ruled against them.

But even if we had the ability to entertain all that, are you going to tell me that will stop all mass gun murders?

See you use another faux argument. I never said it would stop ALL mass gun murders. You are clearly not interested in having an honest debate as you make up shit to debate that I neither said nor implied. I’m not going to waste anymore time correcting your dishonesty. Perhaps we can pick up the debate some other time once you’ve grown up a bit.

That’s not what you’re pissed about. You’re pissed because I pointed out the many flaws in your proposal.

If your suggestion isn’t going to stop mass shootings, then why bother to inconvenience all other gun owners in the country if it isn’t going to solve anything?

See, the Democrat party also know their proposals won’t stop anything either. And when it doesn’t, on to the next set of laws that will have the same results. In the end, we will be stuck with a bunch of laws that don’t accomplish anything that we will never be able to get rid of. What it will do is make purchasing and keeping a firearm such a hassle, such a problem, and likely such an expense that most law abiding people will just not deal with it and remain unarmed.

It’s all part of the big plan.

How do you know that gun laws haven’t prevented death? It’s common sense to me. What you call an inconvenience also serves as a deterrent. It prevents people from making emotional decisions, it makes high risk people go through other means to get guns and lessens their killing power. The kid who shot up a group with a hand gun would have done much more damage if he could have stopped by the local Big 5 and bought an uzi on his way to school.

Get it?

We are to the point where there have been so many mass shootings that it's hard to remember. But I don't recall a mass murder where the weapons involved were obtained through "other means" that could have been prevented.

In Sandy Hook, the kid did attempt to buy firearms and was denied with our current system. So he killed his mother and used her weapons instead. In Columbine, the shooters were under age which prevented them from legally buying guns in their names. They used straw purchasers who claim they didn't know the intent of the shooters. While they were strange kids and did have juvenile criminal records, nobody suspected they were capable of anything like what they did.

In these last two shootings, I believe the suspects were allowed to buy guns, just like the kook in the Las Vegas shooting. I also believe most of the shooters in mass murderers didn't have a record either.

The point is there is no way to determine who might do what in most cases. So to say that these initiatives will not stop mass murders, but will make them a little better is hardly worth the inconvenience of the rest of the country.

But we DO know who is most likely to become a mass murderer.

 

[2aguy]

How much more honest can we be? The last two shooters were invisible to government, but left a trail of disturbing posts on social media. The only way to stop those people from getting guns is if we spied on their posts and determined they were a danger to the public.

How much more honest can you be you ask? Much more... you can start by not saying I said things like “spy” when I never said anything I’d the sort. That would be a good start.

Spying on Americans is not the only way, there are many ways to flag somebody at risk. It can be done by doctors, family, friends employers. And there would be a process to evaluate.

What would you propose Ray? Do nothing to prevent mental people from getting guns except for Arm those around them so they can defend themselves? What are your bright ideas?

Let's be honest...... 12 mass public shootings in 2018. total killed, 93. That is slightly more than are killed by lawn mowers each year. As people keep stating, we already have laws that can be used, the problem is that government keeps failing to use them....Parkland for example....over 30 visits by police....red flag after red flag....what kept them from preventing the attack (possibly)....the Obama "Promise Program" that encouraged the police and the school from pressing felony charges against the shooter....so they could keep their student arrest rate low.......

The Texas Church shooter...... the Air Force failed to put his records into NICS.......

A new red flag law wouldn't have prevented either one of those...because the government agencies meant to monitor these situations failed to do it.

Well I agree, we need to do better with the laws we have in the books because that would help. laws can help. Agreed?

I explain how you stop gun crime over in the CDZ...you might want to join.......

Laws that make the sentence for violent gun crime.....rape, robbery and murder, a life sentence without parole, and a 30 year sentence for illegal gun possession by a felon.....that is the only law we need to stop 95% of the gun crime in this country.... all the rest, universal background checks, gun registration, fees, taxes, are all useless, and only serve to slowly squeeze law abiding gun owners with so much red tape, fees and taxes that they give up on owning guns.....

My way works, and makes the other crap pointless.

I’m not opposed to harsh punishment for gun related violent crime. I think that could have some positive effects. I also think regulations have positive effects as well

We have all the regulations we need right now.... the ones you guys want don't do anything to help....at all.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I didn’t state anything as fact. I’m expressing my opinion and using common sense so when you ask me to prove something that can’t be proven I explain why. I just dont understand how you can argue against the logic that regulations reduce access which reduces firepower which reduces carnage/damage. It’s not rocket science

I'll explain this to you, clearly one time. If you have enough intelligence to comprehend, you will stop with this biased and thoughtless question.

The 2nd Amendments VERY PURPOSE is to put firepower into the hands of citizens. Throughout history it is PROVEN FACT that armed societies are far less likely to end up oppressed by governments that couldn't care less about human rights such as China and North Korea.

Further, it has been PROVEN beyond any reasonable doubt that such occurrences can and do occur in modern times. Venezuela to name one.

While any shooting is a tragedy, the extremely small number of lives that "might" be saved via the incremental and never ending march of infringing regulations people such as you propose is VASTLY, OVERWHELMINGLY and DECISIVELY outweighed by the FACT that an armed society is safer than an unarmed one, to the tune of potentially hundreds of millions of lives saved, vs a handful per year.

Your primary fallacy is that you have been conditioned to believe in something history has proven wrong too many times......that governments never becomes corrupted and turn on their population. it also has JUST happened (again in China) by the way.

If you continue to be in the dark, then it is because you choose to be there, for whatever purpose or agenda.

Everything I just posted is solid, verifiable and indisputable no matter how hard you might work to say otherwise.

 

[Flash]

You know what's NOT fake news?

Trump said "Take guns first, due process second" as in supports Red Flag
Trump got bumpstocks banned and made 500,000+ plus Americans felons over a hunk of plastic
Trump called and CONGRATULATED Rick Scott for SIGNING gun control in FL
Trump expresses support for stronger background checks

Trump sucks on the 2A, just like any Democrat would.and the Moon Bats should love him for it.

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You know what's NOT fake news?

Trump said "Take guns first, due process second" as in supports Red Flag
Trump got bumpstocks banned and made 500,000+ plus Americans felons over a hunk of plastic
Trump called and CONGRATULATED Rick Scott for SIGNING gun control in FL
Trump expresses support for stronger background checks

Trump sucks on the 2A, just like any Democrat would.and the Moon Bats should love him for it.

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

 

[2aguy]

You know what's NOT fake news?

Trump said "Take guns first, due process second" as in supports Red Flag
Trump got bumpstocks banned and made 500,000+ plus Americans felons over a hunk of plastic
Trump called and CONGRATULATED Rick Scott for SIGNING gun control in FL
Trump expresses support for stronger background checks

Trump sucks on the 2A, just like any Democrat would.and the Moon Bats should love him for it.

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

No matter what trump does, it will be better than what hilary planned to do...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Building bombs and molesting children are crimes. Somebody saying they are a white supremacist or saying they hate Mexicans on social media is not.

Regardless, in order to spy on anybody, you need a surveillance warrant to do that. Image how backlogged our courts would be with 20 million cases of accusations every year.

Then there is the fact that building bombs or molesting children are not constitutional rights. The right to bear arms is. That means the accused is allowed to have their day in court. You simply can't take away a constitutional right without a proper court hearing, and the ability of the accused to appeal decisions ruled against them.

But even if we had the ability to entertain all that, are you going to tell me that will stop all mass gun murders?

See you use another faux argument. I never said it would stop ALL mass gun murders. You are clearly not interested in having an honest debate as you make up shit to debate that I neither said nor implied. I’m not going to waste anymore time correcting your dishonesty. Perhaps we can pick up the debate some other time once you’ve grown up a bit.

That’s not what you’re pissed about. You’re pissed because I pointed out the many flaws in your proposal.

If your suggestion isn’t going to stop mass shootings, then why bother to inconvenience all other gun owners in the country if it isn’t going to solve anything?

See, the Democrat party also know their proposals won’t stop anything either. And when it doesn’t, on to the next set of laws that will have the same results. In the end, we will be stuck with a bunch of laws that don’t accomplish anything that we will never be able to get rid of. What it will do is make purchasing and keeping a firearm such a hassle, such a problem, and likely such an expense that most law abiding people will just not deal with it and remain unarmed.

It’s all part of the big plan.

How do you know that gun laws haven’t prevented death? It’s common sense to me. What you call an inconvenience also serves as a deterrent. It prevents people from making emotional decisions, it makes high risk people go through other means to get guns and lessens their killing power. The kid who shot up a group with a hand gun would have done much more damage if he could have stopped by the local Big 5 and bought an uzi on his way to school.

Get it?

We are to the point where there have been so many mass shootings that it's hard to remember. But I don't recall a mass murder where the weapons involved were obtained through "other means" that could have been prevented.

In Sandy Hook, the kid did attempt to buy firearms and was denied with our current system. So he killed his mother and used her weapons instead. In Columbine, the shooters were under age which prevented them from legally buying guns in their names. They used straw purchasers who claim they didn't know the intent of the shooters. While they were strange kids and did have juvenile criminal records, nobody suspected they were capable of anything like what they did.

In these last two shootings, I believe the suspects were allowed to buy guns, just like the kook in the Las Vegas shooting. I also believe most of the shooters in mass murderers didn't have a record either.

The point is there is no way to determine who might do what in most cases. So to say that these initiatives will not stop mass murders, but will make them a little better is hardly worth the inconvenience of the rest of the country.

But we DO know who is most likely to become a mass murderer.

I think there are things that can be done. But infringing on the rights of all Americans isn't the solution.

It may take more manpower, but if there is a clear cut case of a kook, he should be watched carefully even if it means followed by a federal agent.

Now that we have a more right-leaning court, perhaps we can re-instiute being committed again. It was removed from our society during the 70s as it was considered crime-less prisons.

 

[Flash]

You know what's NOT fake news?

Trump said "Take guns first, due process second" as in supports Red Flag
Trump got bumpstocks banned and made 500,000+ plus Americans felons over a hunk of plastic
Trump called and CONGRATULATED Rick Scott for SIGNING gun control in FL
Trump expresses support for stronger background checks

Trump sucks on the 2A, just like any Democrat would.and the Moon Bats should love him for it.

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

The problem that Trump will face with his zeal to fuck us on gun control is not that we will vote for Democrats. That is not going to happen. However, what will happen is that we will not have the enthusiasm to vote for him. Several of the states he carried were by pretty narrow margins. That lack of enthusiasm is going to hurt him. We saw that same lack of enthusiasm contribute to McCain and Romney losing, didn't we?

Never trust a New York Liberal with your Constitutional rights. It doesn't make any difference if that Liberal is Trump or Clinton.

 

[Flash]

You know what's NOT fake news?

Trump said "Take guns first, due process second" as in supports Red Flag
Trump got bumpstocks banned and made 500,000+ plus Americans felons over a hunk of plastic
Trump called and CONGRATULATED Rick Scott for SIGNING gun control in FL
Trump expresses support for stronger background checks

Trump sucks on the 2A, just like any Democrat would.and the Moon Bats should love him for it.

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

No matter what trump does, it will be better than what hilary planned to do...

That is true.

However, gun nut people like me are starting to get really pissed at Trump for the anti gun shit he has come up with. We are his core base. It is not politically astute to piss off your core base hoping that they will still vote for you as a lesser of two evils. That is how you lose elections.

Just ask all those RINOs and Democrats that lost their offices in 1994 because they voted for the AWB.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You know what's NOT fake news?

Trump said "Take guns first, due process second" as in supports Red Flag
Trump got bumpstocks banned and made 500,000+ plus Americans felons over a hunk of plastic
Trump called and CONGRATULATED Rick Scott for SIGNING gun control in FL
Trump expresses support for stronger background checks

Trump sucks on the 2A, just like any Democrat would.and the Moon Bats should love him for it.

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

The problem that Trump will face with his zeal to fuck us on gun control is not that we will vote for Democrats. That is not going to happen. However, what will happen is that we will not have the enthusiasm to vote for him. Several of the states he carried were by pretty narrow margins. That lack of enthusiasm is going to hurt him. We saw that same lack of enthusiasm contribute to McCain and Romney losing, didn't we?

Never trust a New York Liberal with your Constitutional rights. It doesn't make any difference if that Liberal is Trump or Clinton.

Trump may have been a Democrat and has some slight liberal views, but he has presided as a true conservative most of the time.

Show me any President that performed to your total satisfaction, and I'll show you a million dollars buried somewhere. Bush sold us out on the environment. Reagan sold us out on immigration. Old man Bush made the drug problem much worse by having the feds chase down marijuana growers and sellers.

Trump will still carry the enthusiasm and sellout crowds wherever he goes, mainly because of the immigration issues. Yes, gun regulations can be a threat, but I think our country is doomed if we don't stop these people from entering our country.

 

[Flash]

You know what's NOT fake news?

Trump said "Take guns first, due process second" as in supports Red Flag
Trump got bumpstocks banned and made 500,000+ plus Americans felons over a hunk of plastic
Trump called and CONGRATULATED Rick Scott for SIGNING gun control in FL
Trump expresses support for stronger background checks

Trump sucks on the 2A, just like any Democrat would.and the Moon Bats should love him for it.

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

The problem that Trump will face with his zeal to fuck us on gun control is not that we will vote for Democrats. That is not going to happen. However, what will happen is that we will not have the enthusiasm to vote for him. Several of the states he carried were by pretty narrow margins. That lack of enthusiasm is going to hurt him. We saw that same lack of enthusiasm contribute to McCain and Romney losing, didn't we?

Never trust a New York Liberal with your Constitutional rights. It doesn't make any difference if that Liberal is Trump or Clinton.

Trump may have been a Democrat and has some slight liberal views, but he has presided as a true conservative most of the time.

Show me any President that performed to your total satisfaction, and I'll show you a million dollars buried somewhere. Bush sold us out on the environment. Reagan sold us out on immigration. Old man Bush made the drug problem much worse by having the feds chase down marijuana growers and sellers.

Trump will still carry the enthusiasm and sellout crowds wherever he goes, mainly because of the immigration issues. Yes, gun regulations can be a threat, but I think our country is doomed if we don't stop these people from entering our country.

That is the thing. Everybody sells us out. Every year the government grows bigger and the debt gets greater. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is the rate of growth.

Our country can't be fixed at the ballot box. Republicans are always better than Democrats but our country won't be fixed and our liberties restore by electing Republicans over Democrats. At the end of the day there isn't that much difference.

I just hope Trump is playing rope a dope with the Democrats on these gun control issues. I also hope that it is not us gun owners he is playing for a dope.

I also suspect that he is taking advice from the NRA leadership. They may be giving Trump permission to go forward with oppressive Red Flag Laws and UBC. I wouldn't put it past those weak minded sonofabitches. They haven't been looking after our interest for some time now. That is why I giving my support to GOA instead of the NRA.

Not one Democrat will vote for Trump if he pushes UBC but hundreds of thousands if not over a million gun owners may not vote for him. They are not going to vote for a Democrat but Trump won't get their vote.

It will be political suicide.

 

[Crixus]

You know what's NOT fake news?

Trump said "Take guns first, due process second" as in supports Red Flag
Trump got bumpstocks banned and made 500,000+ plus Americans felons over a hunk of plastic
Trump called and CONGRATULATED Rick Scott for SIGNING gun control in FL
Trump expresses support for stronger background checks

Trump sucks on the 2A, just like any Democrat would.and the Moon Bats should love him for it.

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

No matter what trump does, it will be better than what hilary planned to do...

That is true.

However, gun nut people like me are starting to get really pissed at Trump for the anti gun shit he has come up with. We are his core base. It is not politically astute to piss off your core base hoping that they will still vote for you as a lesser of two evils. That is how you lose elections.

Just ask all those RINOs and Democrats that lost their offices in 1994 because they voted for the AWB.

Trump got my vote because he wasn't Hillary. I was becoming okay with trump even with his failure to slow the illegals, but whatever. I was pleased with the mayhem he has caused and the mess he made of the DNC. But after this,





He has proven that he is no different then any other politician in Washington. He is pandering to the democrats. He pretty much lied about his stance on the 2nd. Many have said this is just a ploy to mess with the democrats. I don't think so.

 

[Flash]

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

No matter what trump does, it will be better than what hilary planned to do...

That is true.

However, gun nut people like me are starting to get really pissed at Trump for the anti gun shit he has come up with. We are his core base. It is not politically astute to piss off your core base hoping that they will still vote for you as a lesser of two evils. That is how you lose elections.

Just ask all those RINOs and Democrats that lost their offices in 1994 because they voted for the AWB.

Trump got my vote because he wasn't Hillary. I was becoming okay with trump even with his failure to slow the illegals, but whatever. I was pleased with the mayhem he has caused and the mess he made of the DNC. But after this,





He has proven that he is no different then any other politician in Washington. He is pandering to the democrats. He pretty much lied about his stance on the 2nd. Many have said this is just a ploy to mess with the democrats. I don't think so.

You hit on something there.

Many voters supported Trump because he wasn't Crooked Hillary. It is not that they had a reason to trust Trump but they knew they had a reason not to trust Crooked Hillary.

If Trump goes Libtard bat shit crazy with this gun control shit he will lose the trust of a lot of his core voters. Like I said, political suicide.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you would be happier with Hillary in there instead with a Democrat Congress?

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

The problem that Trump will face with his zeal to fuck us on gun control is not that we will vote for Democrats. That is not going to happen. However, what will happen is that we will not have the enthusiasm to vote for him. Several of the states he carried were by pretty narrow margins. That lack of enthusiasm is going to hurt him. We saw that same lack of enthusiasm contribute to McCain and Romney losing, didn't we?

Never trust a New York Liberal with your Constitutional rights. It doesn't make any difference if that Liberal is Trump or Clinton.

Trump may have been a Democrat and has some slight liberal views, but he has presided as a true conservative most of the time.

Show me any President that performed to your total satisfaction, and I'll show you a million dollars buried somewhere. Bush sold us out on the environment. Reagan sold us out on immigration. Old man Bush made the drug problem much worse by having the feds chase down marijuana growers and sellers.

Trump will still carry the enthusiasm and sellout crowds wherever he goes, mainly because of the immigration issues. Yes, gun regulations can be a threat, but I think our country is doomed if we don't stop these people from entering our country.

That is the thing. Everybody sells us out. Every year the government grows bigger and the debt gets greater. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is the rate of growth.

Our country can't be fixed at the ballot box. Republicans are always better than Democrats but our country won't be fixed and our liberties restore by electing Republicans over Democrats. At the end of the day there isn't that much difference.

I just hope Trump is playing rope a dope with the Democrats on these gun control issues. I also hope that it is not us gun owners he is playing for a dope.

I also suspect that he is taking advice from the NRA leadership. They may be giving Trump permission to go forward with oppressive Red Flag Laws and UBC. I wouldn't put it past those weak minded sonofabitches. They haven't been looking after our interest for some time now. That is why I giving my support to GOA instead of the NRA.

Not one Democrat will vote for Trump if he pushes UBC but hundreds of thousands if not over a million gun owners may not vote for him. They are not going to vote for a Democrat but Trump won't get their vote.

It will be political suicide.

I think you are correct. Trump will introduce legislation that will include things that make the Democrats cringe, and when they vote against his bill that also includes their goodies, Trump can say "Well......I tried!"

He can piss off some Republicans to the point they don't vote. But if he pisses off Democrats, they may come out in droves as they did during the mid-terms. Both parties had outstanding results and way above average turnout, it's just that hate won more people over, and that's how we lost the House.

That can happen in 2020 as well. If Trump is putting on a dog and pony show, then let him say what he wants. It's what he does that counts. No matter what Trump does, it's better than looking forward to reparations, Medicare for all, taxpayer funded colleges, and worst of all, liberal Supreme Court justices, the most important thing about having a Republican President.

 

[Flash]

So it boils down to how unhappy I will be?

How about Trump doing what he said he would do to earn the votes of the gun community and not fucking with our right to keep an bear arms?

That's difficult to do, especially with an election coming up and over 90% negative reporting by the MSM.

I think Trump will back off what he said he's going to do. Remember that anything would have to get past the Senate first.

I don't think bump stocks are a huge loss to the gun community. I never even heard of them until Las Vegas, and from discussions here and elsewhere, most gun people haven't either.

Don't get upset. Sit back and watch. Trump has said things against our beliefs and managed to back down or forget about it. Give the media what they are looking for. When things calm down, then let's see what happens.

Donald Trump has earned my trust.

The problem that Trump will face with his zeal to fuck us on gun control is not that we will vote for Democrats. That is not going to happen. However, what will happen is that we will not have the enthusiasm to vote for him. Several of the states he carried were by pretty narrow margins. That lack of enthusiasm is going to hurt him. We saw that same lack of enthusiasm contribute to McCain and Romney losing, didn't we?

Never trust a New York Liberal with your Constitutional rights. It doesn't make any difference if that Liberal is Trump or Clinton.

Trump may have been a Democrat and has some slight liberal views, but he has presided as a true conservative most of the time.

Show me any President that performed to your total satisfaction, and I'll show you a million dollars buried somewhere. Bush sold us out on the environment. Reagan sold us out on immigration. Old man Bush made the drug problem much worse by having the feds chase down marijuana growers and sellers.

Trump will still carry the enthusiasm and sellout crowds wherever he goes, mainly because of the immigration issues. Yes, gun regulations can be a threat, but I think our country is doomed if we don't stop these people from entering our country.

That is the thing. Everybody sells us out. Every year the government grows bigger and the debt gets greater. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is the rate of growth.

Our country can't be fixed at the ballot box. Republicans are always better than Democrats but our country won't be fixed and our liberties restore by electing Republicans over Democrats. At the end of the day there isn't that much difference.

I just hope Trump is playing rope a dope with the Democrats on these gun control issues. I also hope that it is not us gun owners he is playing for a dope.

I also suspect that he is taking advice from the NRA leadership. They may be giving Trump permission to go forward with oppressive Red Flag Laws and UBC. I wouldn't put it past those weak minded sonofabitches. They haven't been looking after our interest for some time now. That is why I giving my support to GOA instead of the NRA.

Not one Democrat will vote for Trump if he pushes UBC but hundreds of thousands if not over a million gun owners may not vote for him. They are not going to vote for a Democrat but Trump won't get their vote.

It will be political suicide.

I think you are correct. Trump will introduce legislation that will include things that make the Democrats cringe, and when they vote against his bill that also includes their goodies, Trump can say "Well......I tried!"

He can piss off some Republicans to the point they don't vote. But if he pisses off Democrats, they may come out in droves as they did during the mid-terms. Both parties had outstanding results and way above average turnout, it's just that hate won more people over, and that's how we lost the House.

That can happen in 2020 as well. If Trump is putting on a dog and pony show, then let him say what he wants. It's what he does that counts. No matter what Trump does, it's better than looking forward to reparations, Medicare for all, taxpayer funded colleges, and worst of all, liberal Supreme Court justices, the most important thing about having a Republican President.

I don't know about you Ray but I am getting damn tired of voting for somebody just because he/she is the lesser of two evils.

I need a President that will stand up for my right to keep and bear arms. Not one that will deteriorate it.

It pains me to say it but already Trump has a worst record than Obama.