Gun culture or parenting culture?

[frigidweirdo]

The only thing that can stop bad kids with guns, are good kids woth guns

But are good kids going to walk around in gangs with guns pretending to be the world's police and not become that bad kids?

Only one way to find out

Yeah, there's only one way to find out if letting in millions of Muslims will lead to massive amounts of terrorist acts from these immigrants too, you're going to take it?

 

[TheOldSchool]

The only thing that can stop bad kids with guns, are good kids woth guns

But are good kids going to walk around in gangs with guns pretending to be the world's police and not become that bad kids?

Only one way to find out

Yeah, there's only one way to find out if letting in millions of Muslims will lead to massive amounts of terrorist acts from these immigrants too, you're going to take it?

God damn right

 

[frigidweirdo]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

Really? You mean it was the right that promoted single-parent families? It was the right that told women to give up their husband for a job? The right promoted that???

Well if it's a society problem and the mother was correct in saying he needed the gun for protection, why not give every 16 year old in the ghetto a gun for protection? After all, it's not a parenting issue now is it?

Maybe.......just maybe if this kid had a father around, he might not be in trouble today. Maybe.....just maybe, with a husband and father, they would be able to afford a nicer area to live with two incomes.

The world changed. The world went from being a subsistence farming world of near slaves, or surfs or whatever you want to call them. People for thousands of years worked the land, lived under a powerful landlord who was, for the slaves/surfs/underlings, above the law. He was only below the law when it came to those who were higher up.

But the world changed. Along came industry. Along came a migration away from the farms. Suddenly things were changing in a manner that went away from what the Church new and how to deal with. However under the subsistence farming world, people worked a lot, had as many kids as they could. They didn't have time to go fucking around too much, and their world was so small that everyone would know about it. The cities changed this, they changed a lot.

What you're talking about seems to be the right wishing to keep everything as it was. Perhaps. And they did desire married people. However they also desired people working massive amounts of hours. The two don't fit together.

Were liberals pushing for change? Sure they were. The American Revolution was a push for change, the Constitution was change. Did this change have an impact on family life? Sure it did. But are you suggesting that we should have remained subsistence farmers, living miserable lives, just so that we'd stay married?

Yeah, we could give every 16 year old a gun for protection, and then perhaps we could give them 10 ounces of crack cocaine so they don't have to go stealing in order to get their fix. Yeah, that'll work, then we can lock them up for possessing the thing we just gave them too, and then they'll be safe in prison, right? Because prisons are safe places....

Come off it.....

Me come off of it? Maybe take your own advice.

People didn't leave the farmlands fifteen years ago. That was many years ago and we've had cities long before I was born, yet never a problem back then.

So what changed? For one, allowing kids to think they have rights over adults, but more importantly is the single-parent households. Single-parent households are directly related to poverty. There is nothing good about them when it comes to children.

There have always been problems.

Parenting is part of the issue here. Parents who don't know how to bring their kids up effectively. Again, the world has changed, it's become more complex and the family unit has often broken down.

My family come from different sides of the country, I had grandparents over there, grandparents over the other way, and I didn't live anywhere near either of them. In the past the grandparents, aunts, other females would have been around to support, to teach, to look after those kids. But that has changed.

Then you have kids being more free because parents are working more. After school I was free for 3 hours, no one was around to tell me what to do.

Parenting goes out of the window if parents aren't around. This is my point.

But there are other issues. How do you teach people to bring up their kids? Because the right is demanding that we don't even touch on the subject. That we leave people alone to struggle to do it on their own, and then slam them later when they do it badly. Kids need support, but then people want to leave them be and then slam them when they turn into criminals.

I'm sorry, but if you set up the conditions for them to fail, and then slam them, and liberals, when they do fail, it's ridiculous. And no, this isn't me saying liberals are completely clear of failing such people. There are issues there too, what I'm talking about is the right creating conditions for the family to fail, for kids to fail, and then complaining that they are failing.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

correction: an inner city and urban society problem

Yes and no. It is mostly in the inner cities. But the issue is that these things are permeating the rest of society. They're changing society more than you would like.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

That's fucking bullshit. Most people I know working 80 hours a week are doing that because they didn't get the education they should have. There are plenty of good paying jobs out there being filled by educated people immigrating to this country. Parenting is the issue 90% of the time. Blaming the left or the right is a childish immature argument. Parents are failing and this generation is a fucking mess.

So, you don't get the education you should do because you didn't have that parental support when you were a kid, and you work all the hours you can and don't give your kids the support they need, and they don't get the education they need.... doesn't seem to be a cycle here? You get born on the wrong side of the tracks, well, you're just going to end up making the mistakes your parents, grandparents etc made.....

And no one gives a fuck about changing it either, because those who CAN change it, well, they don't care because it isn't their kids getting fucked up.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

Really? You mean it was the right that promoted single-parent families? It was the right that told women to give up their husband for a job? The right promoted that???

Well if it's a society problem and the mother was correct in saying he needed the gun for protection, why not give every 16 year old in the ghetto a gun for protection? After all, it's not a parenting issue now is it?

Maybe.......just maybe if this kid had a father around, he might not be in trouble today. Maybe.....just maybe, with a husband and father, they would be able to afford a nicer area to live with two incomes.

The world changed. The world went from being a subsistence farming world of near slaves, or surfs or whatever you want to call them. People for thousands of years worked the land, lived under a powerful landlord who was, for the slaves/surfs/underlings, above the law. He was only below the law when it came to those who were higher up.

But the world changed. Along came industry. Along came a migration away from the farms. Suddenly things were changing in a manner that went away from what the Church new and how to deal with. However under the subsistence farming world, people worked a lot, had as many kids as they could. They didn't have time to go fucking around too much, and their world was so small that everyone would know about it. The cities changed this, they changed a lot.

What you're talking about seems to be the right wishing to keep everything as it was. Perhaps. And they did desire married people. However they also desired people working massive amounts of hours. The two don't fit together.

Were liberals pushing for change? Sure they were. The American Revolution was a push for change, the Constitution was change. Did this change have an impact on family life? Sure it did. But are you suggesting that we should have remained subsistence farmers, living miserable lives, just so that we'd stay married?

Yeah, we could give every 16 year old a gun for protection, and then perhaps we could give them 10 ounces of crack cocaine so they don't have to go stealing in order to get their fix. Yeah, that'll work, then we can lock them up for possessing the thing we just gave them too, and then they'll be safe in prison, right? Because prisons are safe places....

Come off it.....

Me come off of it? Maybe take your own advice.

People didn't leave the farmlands fifteen years ago. That was many years ago and we've had cities long before I was born, yet never a problem back then.

So what changed? For one, allowing kids to think they have rights over adults, but more importantly is the single-parent households. Single-parent households are directly related to poverty. There is nothing good about them when it comes to children.

There have always been problems.

Parenting is part of the issue here. Parents who don't know how to bring their kids up effectively. Again, the world has changed, it's become more complex and the family unit has often broken down.

My family come from different sides of the country, I had grandparents over there, grandparents over the other way, and I didn't live anywhere near either of them. In the past the grandparents, aunts, other females would have been around to support, to teach, to look after those kids. But that has changed.

Then you have kids being more free because parents are working more. After school I was free for 3 hours, no one was around to tell me what to do.

Parenting goes out of the window if parents aren't around. This is my point.

But there are other issues. How do you teach people to bring up their kids? Because the right is demanding that we don't even touch on the subject. That we leave people alone to struggle to do it on their own, and then slam them later when they do it badly. Kids need support, but then people want to leave them be and then slam them when they turn into criminals.

I'm sorry, but if you set up the conditions for them to fail, and then slam them, and liberals, when they do fail, it's ridiculous. And no, this isn't me saying liberals are completely clear of failing such people. There are issues there too, what I'm talking about is the right creating conditions for the family to fail, for kids to fail, and then complaining that they are failing.

When did the right demand that we don't touch on the subject of parenting? It's the right that has been advocating two-parent families since the left started to promote the opposite. It's the right that's been promoting morality and even religion in schools compared to the left that's obsessed with not hurting anybody's feelings by giving a failed grade.

How did your parents learn about parenting? How did mine? Parenting is natural; you don't need to take a course on it.

Several years back I had a neighbor who bought a portable basketball hoop. Before you know it, every kid from five blocks around was here. It was a nightmare. I even had to call the cops a few times because they would start right after school, and play into the night.

My questions was, WTF are the parent(s) of these kids that they allow them to stay out all night playing basketball instead of being home at dark doing their homework? It wasn't one or two nights a week, it was every day and night that it didn't rain.

Nobody has to teach you to have your kid home at a certain hour to do homework. That's a no brainer.

The problem is single-parent homes. Understandably, some relationships just don't work out and there is nothing a couple can do. But many of these kids are raised from young on with only one parent. And if their kid (like the OP) gets his hands on a gun, is it because we are a gun society or is it that the parent(s) are not doing their job?

My money is on the latter.

 

[yiostheoy]

There is nothing unluckier than a Negro child,
While an English child is blessed and mild,
A Negro child is brazen and wild,
You can raise an English child,
In the way that it should go,
But a Negro child,
Will return to the jungle
That its ancestors know.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

While I agree that all of this is cultural, disagreed that the mother justified anything

I disagree with your disagreement. She said this:

He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection.

That's what you need for protection? That sure sounds like justification to me. If I were caught with a gun as a kid, my mother sure as hell would never say that, and my dad would have kicked my as from one end of the house to the other.

True, she said that. I was looking more at her statement "I don't consider it a good thing."

The bottom line here is that, IMO, she seems to have given up on her son and is abdicating her responsibilities as a parent for his behavior.

This just supports my contention that the Republicans are wrong to be against abortion since, obviously, some people shouldn't be parents. Usually the least qualified have the most kids. That's quite a dilemma!

"I don't consider it a good thing" sounds like she's almost on the fence about it.

I don't know if abortion is the answer. After all, it's been legal in this country for decades, and we still have quite a problem.

Abortion has been legal for decades and the crime rate has gone down. Something must be working. As a taxpayer, I'm willing to help all women living in gang-infested, high crime areas have abortions at cost. Furthermore, if it was up to me, I'd require becoming a parent to go through everything the Democrats want to enact for citizens to become gun owners. For the children, of course.

You can have all the gun classes you like, but you can't fix stupid. Anybody that allows children access to their firearms can't be taught anything. It's like trying to teach your dog how to speak English. I mean......you don't need classes to explain that to people. Not everybody is gifted with common sense.

Violent crime and even gun crime began to decrease in the early mid 90's. Abortion was around much longer than that. But what is consistent with that decrease was more states adopting gun laws that protect the victim and CCW programs. It started to become a trend.

Now there is no empirical evidence to my claim just like there is none for yours. Nobody can say for sure why violent and gun crime began to decline during that time. But I would bet that if the country still had strict gun laws against the average law abiding citizen, our crime rate wouldn't have changed all that much because a strong enough deterrent to crime works every time it's tried.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

Really? You mean it was the right that promoted single-parent families? It was the right that told women to give up their husband for a job? The right promoted that???

Well if it's a society problem and the mother was correct in saying he needed the gun for protection, why not give every 16 year old in the ghetto a gun for protection? After all, it's not a parenting issue now is it?

Maybe.......just maybe if this kid had a father around, he might not be in trouble today. Maybe.....just maybe, with a husband and father, they would be able to afford a nicer area to live with two incomes.

So you don't want 16 year old kids to have a gun. How long before you want then to have one? I thought more guns made people safer.

Typical liberal who can't use common sense. I suppose you think a 12 year old driving is the same as an 18 year old? No, and neither is carrying a gun. Dummy.

Surely "common sense" would dictate that perhaps the person you were replying to was being sarcastic. D'oh.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There is nothing unluckier than a Negro child,
While an English child is blessed and mild,
A Negro child is brazen and wild,
You can raise an English child,
In the way that it should go,
But a Negro child,
Will return to the jungle
That its ancestors know.

Hence why the Columbine High School shootings were committed by black kids. That it was done by white kids is fake news.

 

[Pogo]

Yes, we all know what his conclusion is. I thought we''re trying to move past that.
As in ---- what drove him TO that conclusion.

We? Does that mean you have a tapeworm or just a mouse in your pocket?

Boy, that don't make a damn lick o' sense.

 

[Divine Wind]

While I agree that all of this is cultural, disagreed that the mother justified anything

I disagree with your disagreement. She said this:

He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection.

That's what you need for protection? That sure sounds like justification to me. If I were caught with a gun as a kid, my mother sure as hell would never say that, and my dad would have kicked my as from one end of the house to the other.

True, she said that. I was looking more at her statement "I don't consider it a good thing."

The bottom line here is that, IMO, she seems to have given up on her son and is abdicating her responsibilities as a parent for his behavior.

This just supports my contention that the Republicans are wrong to be against abortion since, obviously, some people shouldn't be parents. Usually the least qualified have the most kids. That's quite a dilemma!

"I don't consider it a good thing" sounds like she's almost on the fence about it.

I don't know if abortion is the answer. After all, it's been legal in this country for decades, and we still have quite a problem.

Abortion has been legal for decades and the crime rate has gone down. Something must be working. As a taxpayer, I'm willing to help all women living in gang-infested, high crime areas have abortions at cost. Furthermore, if it was up to me, I'd require becoming a parent to go through everything the Democrats want to enact for citizens to become gun owners. For the children, of course.

You can have all the gun classes you like, but you can't fix stupid. Anybody that allows children access to their firearms can't be taught anything. It's like trying to teach your dog how to speak English. I mean......you don't need classes to explain that to people. Not everybody is gifted with common sense.

Violent crime and even gun crime began to decrease in the early mid 90's. Abortion was around much longer than that. But what is consistent with that decrease was more states adopting gun laws that protect the victim and CCW programs. It started to become a trend.

Now there is no empirical evidence to my claim just like there is none for yours. Nobody can say for sure why violent and gun crime began to decline during that time. But I would bet that if the country still had strict gun laws against the average law abiding citizen, our crime rate wouldn't have changed all that much because a strong enough deterrent to crime works every time it's tried.

Agreed on "can't fix stupid" but abortion does slow them down.

There is, indeed, evidence abortion reduces crime since unwanted fetuses which are aborted don't grow up to be unwanted gang-banger teenagers needing a pistol for protection at age 16.

The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime
We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization. The 5 states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime. http://www.nber.org/papers/w8004.pdf

http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/

Personally, I think there are other factors too such as carry laws, but the Romanian and US example is pretty potent stuff.

 

[Divine Wind]

Yes, we all know what his conclusion is. I thought we''re trying to move past that.
As in ---- what drove him TO that conclusion.

We? Does that mean you have a tapeworm or just a mouse in your pocket?

Boy, that don't make a damn lick o' sense.

Only to you or also not to your tapeworm?

 

[frigidweirdo]

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

Really? You mean it was the right that promoted single-parent families? It was the right that told women to give up their husband for a job? The right promoted that???

Well if it's a society problem and the mother was correct in saying he needed the gun for protection, why not give every 16 year old in the ghetto a gun for protection? After all, it's not a parenting issue now is it?

Maybe.......just maybe if this kid had a father around, he might not be in trouble today. Maybe.....just maybe, with a husband and father, they would be able to afford a nicer area to live with two incomes.

The world changed. The world went from being a subsistence farming world of near slaves, or surfs or whatever you want to call them. People for thousands of years worked the land, lived under a powerful landlord who was, for the slaves/surfs/underlings, above the law. He was only below the law when it came to those who were higher up.

But the world changed. Along came industry. Along came a migration away from the farms. Suddenly things were changing in a manner that went away from what the Church new and how to deal with. However under the subsistence farming world, people worked a lot, had as many kids as they could. They didn't have time to go fucking around too much, and their world was so small that everyone would know about it. The cities changed this, they changed a lot.

What you're talking about seems to be the right wishing to keep everything as it was. Perhaps. And they did desire married people. However they also desired people working massive amounts of hours. The two don't fit together.

Were liberals pushing for change? Sure they were. The American Revolution was a push for change, the Constitution was change. Did this change have an impact on family life? Sure it did. But are you suggesting that we should have remained subsistence farmers, living miserable lives, just so that we'd stay married?

Yeah, we could give every 16 year old a gun for protection, and then perhaps we could give them 10 ounces of crack cocaine so they don't have to go stealing in order to get their fix. Yeah, that'll work, then we can lock them up for possessing the thing we just gave them too, and then they'll be safe in prison, right? Because prisons are safe places....

Come off it.....

Me come off of it? Maybe take your own advice.

People didn't leave the farmlands fifteen years ago. That was many years ago and we've had cities long before I was born, yet never a problem back then.

So what changed? For one, allowing kids to think they have rights over adults, but more importantly is the single-parent households. Single-parent households are directly related to poverty. There is nothing good about them when it comes to children.

There have always been problems.

Parenting is part of the issue here. Parents who don't know how to bring their kids up effectively. Again, the world has changed, it's become more complex and the family unit has often broken down.

My family come from different sides of the country, I had grandparents over there, grandparents over the other way, and I didn't live anywhere near either of them. In the past the grandparents, aunts, other females would have been around to support, to teach, to look after those kids. But that has changed.

Then you have kids being more free because parents are working more. After school I was free for 3 hours, no one was around to tell me what to do.

Parenting goes out of the window if parents aren't around. This is my point.

But there are other issues. How do you teach people to bring up their kids? Because the right is demanding that we don't even touch on the subject. That we leave people alone to struggle to do it on their own, and then slam them later when they do it badly. Kids need support, but then people want to leave them be and then slam them when they turn into criminals.

I'm sorry, but if you set up the conditions for them to fail, and then slam them, and liberals, when they do fail, it's ridiculous. And no, this isn't me saying liberals are completely clear of failing such people. There are issues there too, what I'm talking about is the right creating conditions for the family to fail, for kids to fail, and then complaining that they are failing.

When did the right demand that we don't touch on the subject of parenting? It's the right that has been advocating two-parent families since the left started to promote the opposite. It's the right that's been promoting morality and even religion in schools compared to the left that's obsessed with not hurting anybody's feelings by giving a failed grade.

How did your parents learn about parenting? How did mine? Parenting is natural; you don't need to take a course on it.

Several years back I had a neighbor who bought a portable basketball hoop. Before you know it, every kid from five blocks around was here. It was a nightmare. I even had to call the cops a few times because they would start right after school, and play into the night.

My questions was, WTF are the parent(s) of these kids that they allow them to stay out all night playing basketball instead of being home at dark doing their homework? It wasn't one or two nights a week, it was every day and night that it didn't rain.

Nobody has to teach you to have your kid home at a certain hour to do homework. That's a no brainer.

The problem is single-parent homes. Understandably, some relationships just don't work out and there is nothing a couple can do. But many of these kids are raised from young on with only one parent. And if their kid (like the OP) gets his hands on a gun, is it because we are a gun society or is it that the parent(s) are not doing their job?

My money is on the latter.

Well, it seems to happen a lot on here when I discuss the matter.

Yes, the right promote two parents, they promote morality, they promote religion.

The problem is that they're promoting morals from religion, trying to get everyone to be a part of their religion, and the morals aren't based around what should happen in a modern society, but morals from an older era.

And then they're willing to be extremely contradictory. They'll push anti-abortion rhetoric until the cows come home, but will they be teaching people how to bring up a child? No, they won't. Will they be demanding that people don't work too much in order to be able to bring their kids up? No, they won't. This is the problem with religious morals as opposed to sensible morals.

You think parenting is natural. Well you see, here's the problem. It isn't. There are basics.

When you see kids with a coke in one hand, a cake in the other and chips in their backpack, and this is the food sustaining them through the day, you know that someone isn't on the natural parenting course.

You complain about parenting, then say it's natural. If it were natural, you wouldn't be complaining about it.

Again, a "no-brainer" and yet too many people are acting without too much of a brain.

Do you think all those kids were single parent families? Probably not. Both my parents worked. That doesn't help you deal with kids. You need to think about things, you need education. But apparently it's so natural that so many people don't do it.

How do you prevent single parent families? Again, many on the right will simply say that they can't get involved in educating kids into how relationships should work, this would be "indoctrination" and all that crap. Then they will bitch and moan at single parent families.

It doesn't make sense.

 

[2aguy]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

Single teenage girls who are raising young males without fathers.....that is the primary of violent crime in this country.

 

[2aguy]

I am finishing this book...."Life at the Bottom," that looks at the same issues in Britain.....and the levels of violence in Britain among their criminals come directly from single teenage girls raising young males without husbands to teach them how to be adult men....

Reading this book you see that the problem is the same over there as it is here....they are behind us in the violent crime aspect....more than likely because of the effects of World War 2 on their society......but they are now catching up at Warp Speed....

Life at the Bottom: The Worldview That Makes the Underclass: Theodore Dalrymple: 9781566635059: Amazon.com: Books

 

[2aguy]

She said he was carrying it for protection. Why do you hate the 2nd Amendment?

Right, for protection. Don't try that guilt trip on me. The second amendment doesn't give kids a constitutional right to illegally carry a firearm. That's why the kid is in jail today.

Does the 2nd have an age limit?

Most of our rights do. That's why 10 year olds cannot vote; although I'm sure the Democrats would love it if they could.

Well....most democrats think like 10 year olds...does that count?

 

[2aguy]

Gun culture is a liberal term. That's why I used it. Gotta piss them off on a Saturday.

No it's an American term. Specifically US American. That's why we need this kind of examination and (e.g.) Canadians don't.

It's an American liberal term. As for the rest of us, we don't consider gun ownership some kind of culture.

Nor do I but that's not what it means.
What it actually does mean has already been articulated here, and that is, the idea that one solves one's problems by shooting at them. Including occasionally, oneself. The whole "might makes right" mentality.

That issue is a subheading under the greater masculinity issue.

But we don't have a society that believes in shooting somebody solves problems. Only a minority of our people actually feel that way, and they become criminals after they do shoot somebody. A culture would indicate that we approve of shooting people for no reason simply because guns are a part of everybody's life in America.

Oh but we absolutely do.

Having a sick culture doesn't mean every last person subscribes to it. Nor does it mean those who do will always act on it.

But it does mean when some loser feels powerless and seeks revenge for it, everything they've been taught since birth tells them, grab an AK and mow down some children or some shoppers or some random crowd. Once in a while, they follow through on it.

Once in a while means the rarest of circumstances. Considering we have close to 400 million guns in private hands and over 15 million people are now carrying guns for self defense......and while this is going on...

--our gun murder rate went down 49%.

--our gun crime rate went down 75%.

--our violent crime rate went down 72%.

We have a violent criminal culture confined to tiny areas or some of our larger cities where most of the gun violence happens. It is in those democrat voting districts where the gun crime and murder are happening. If you don't live in those tiny areas, don't commit crimes, don't associate with criminals.....the odds of getting shot in this country are the same or better than in Europe with 400 million guns.......

And on top of that.....Americans are amazingly responsible with their guns.....our gun accident rates are all going down......and Americans, who use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop crime, not cause it, only find the need to shoot and kill violent criminals about 235 times a year........out of a population of 320,000,000 people....

 

[Divine Wind]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

Single teenage girls who are raising young males without fathers.....that is the primary of violent crime in this country.

I am finishing this book...."Life at the Bottom," that looks at the same issues in Britain.....and the levels of violence in Britain among their criminals come directly from single teenage girls raising young males without husbands to teach them how to be adult men....

Reading this book you see that the problem is the same over there as it is here....they are behind us in the violent crime aspect....more than likely because of the effects of World War 2 on their society......but they are now catching up at Warp Speed....

Life at the Bottom: The Worldview That Makes the Underclass: Theodore Dalrymple: 9781566635059: Amazon.com: Books

Thanks for the reference.

Clearly, human nature remains the same even among different human cultures.

As for the conclusions, that is worthy of discussion; is it being fatherless that causes higher crime or a culture where men think it's okay to abandon their children that causes higher crime?

 

[2aguy]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

Really? You mean it was the right that promoted single-parent families? It was the right that told women to give up their husband for a job? The right promoted that???

Well if it's a society problem and the mother was correct in saying he needed the gun for protection, why not give every 16 year old in the ghetto a gun for protection? After all, it's not a parenting issue now is it?

Maybe.......just maybe if this kid had a father around, he might not be in trouble today. Maybe.....just maybe, with a husband and father, they would be able to afford a nicer area to live with two incomes.

Zero tolerance programs and minimum sentencing. You voted for it and thought it a good idea. But in a country where white people get probation and black people go to jail, THIS is why there are no black fathers around. You can't send all the young black men to jail and then bitch that children have no fathers.

And that is a lie......those in jail are there because they deserve to be there especially the violent criminals....

There are no black fathers around because the democrats created the Great Society which gave out welfare as it kicked husbands out of the family of poor Americans.....we now have teenage girls who get government money every time they have a child ....and if they have a husband....they lose that money.....and yet you morons don't understand that ass backwards incentive program......that is why no fathers are around...then the young males raised by the single teenage girls become violent socipaths because the revolving door of boyfriends teach them violence and crime...not self control and resposiblity....


Try that book...."Life At the Bottom," seeing it happening in Britain might show you how it happens here.....