Gun culture or parenting culture?

[OldLady]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

Okay, what's your point here? This is a 16-year-old kid in the US, as such he's been told guns are gods and he "needs" one and he bought it. Nothing unusual, sadly -- it goes on here at USMB every day.

Where we going with this?

and he "needs" one and he bought it.

He "needs" one because walking down the street in his neighborhood isn't safe, and no one seems to have a workable plan to make it safe for him

Yes, we all know what his conclusion is. I thought we''re trying to move past that.
As in ---- what drove him TO that conclusion.

As in ---- what drove him TO that conclusion.

living in his neighborhood?

Seeing gangbangers running things?

Drive-by shootings?

Personal experience?

STILL not getting it. HELLO, this thing on??

The "conclusion" we're after is ---- what drove him to conclude that those circumstances.......... not feeling safe, gangbangers, the fact that it's Wednesday, whatever .............. are solved by shooting at them?

Clearly his mother didn't give him that idea. ------------- Right?

You skeered of this question or what?

I think I get where you're going, BUT it's not just Americans who seek protection when threatened. Look at the fun we are having trying to disarm nuclear countries. They're all willing to do it as soon as everyone else does. The instinct to protect ourselves is deep. The easy accessibility to guns and the culture that glorifies them as manly and etc. is the reason we have the problem we do in this country, but changing the culture alone won't work without removing the threat of others with guns at the same time.

 

[Auld Phart]

living in his neighborhood?

Seeing gangbangers running things?

Drive-by shootings?

Personal experience?

STILL not getting it. HELLO, this thing on??

The "conclusion" we're after is ---- what drove him to conclude that those circumstances.......... not feeling safe, gangbangers, the fact that it's Wednesday, whatever .............. are solved by shooting at them?

Clearly his mother didn't give him that idea. ------------- Right?

You skeered of this question or what?

Are you "skeered" of the answer?

Do you think he's a moron?

He sees what's happening in the streets in his area.

How should he protect himself?

ball bat?

Supermans cape?

Green Lanterns ring?

Get escorted everywhere by a cop?

(that might actually get more people shooting in his direction)

Cower in his room?

Hide in the basement?

Stick his fingers in his ears and

The young man apparently has no desire to be a victim.

I'll take this as a "yes" --- you're skeered of the quesiton. I dumbed it down to a second-grade reading level and you're still running away from it.

Let's try first grade. And another angle.

The kid concludes he needs a gun to be safe. That doesn't make it a fact to be accepted. That makes it his conclusion.

Still there? Running for the door going yet?

Now then. *BEFORE* we accept this conclusion as a valid one --- what a concept --- we first ask, how did you arrive at said conclusion.

Please advise if this needs to be dumbed down to Kindergartenish.

how far do I have to dumb it down for YOU to get it?

so far...

OK I have better things to do with my time than coach some klown who wants to play village idiot.

Have a nice day.

OK I have better things to do with my time than coach some klown who wants to play village idiot.

You shouldn't put yourself down like that.

However, I also have better things to do than try to open your eyes...

 

[OKTexas]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

ROFLMFAO, it was you regressives that started telling kids to call the police if their parents or principle busted their ass for doing something wrong. Now you're trying to blame the parents and principles for generations of undisciplined kids? Your projection shows you to be one of the most intellectually dishonest people on this board.

 

[Dragonlady]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

Really? You mean it was the right that promoted single-parent families? It was the right that told women to give up their husband for a job? The right promoted that???

Well if it's a society problem and the mother was correct in saying he needed the gun for protection, why not give every 16 year old in the ghetto a gun for protection? After all, it's not a parenting issue now is it?

Maybe.......just maybe if this kid had a father around, he might not be in trouble today. Maybe.....just maybe, with a husband and father, they would be able to afford a nicer area to live with two incomes.

Zero tolerance programs and minimum sentencing. You voted for it and thought it a good idea. But in a country where white people get probation and black people go to jail, THIS is why there are no black fathers around. You can't send all the young black men to jail and then bitch that children have no fathers.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

Really? You mean it was the right that promoted single-parent families? It was the right that told women to give up their husband for a job? The right promoted that???

Well if it's a society problem and the mother was correct in saying he needed the gun for protection, why not give every 16 year old in the ghetto a gun for protection? After all, it's not a parenting issue now is it?

Maybe.......just maybe if this kid had a father around, he might not be in trouble today. Maybe.....just maybe, with a husband and father, they would be able to afford a nicer area to live with two incomes.

Zero tolerance programs and minimum sentencing. You voted for it and thought it a good idea. But in a country where white people get probation and black people go to jail, THIS is why there are no black fathers around. You can't send all the young black men to jail and then bitch that children have no fathers.

That's what we are doing? Sending all black males to jail?

Funny, I see black males around here all the time.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Gun culture is a liberal term. That's why I used it. Gotta piss them off on a Saturday.

No it's an American term. Specifically US American. That's why we need this kind of examination and (e.g.) Canadians don't.

It's an American liberal term. As for the rest of us, we don't consider gun ownership some kind of culture.

Nor do I but that's not what it means.
What it actually does mean has already been articulated here, and that is, the idea that one solves one's problems by shooting at them. Including occasionally, oneself. The whole "might makes right" mentality.

That issue is a subheading under the greater masculinity issue.

But we don't have a society that believes in shooting somebody solves problems. Only a minority of our people actually feel that way, and they become criminals after they do shoot somebody. A culture would indicate that we approve of shooting people for no reason simply because guns are a part of everybody's life in America.

Oh but we absolutely do.

Having a sick culture doesn't mean every last person subscribes to it. Nor does it mean those who do will always act on it.

But it does mean when some loser feels powerless and seeks revenge for it, everything they've been taught since birth tells them, grab an AK and mow down some children or some shoppers or some random crowd. Once in a while, they follow through on it.

Wait a minute, who is teaching them to grab an AK and kill everybody in sight? I live in this country, and I don't feel that way; none of my friends feel that way; none of my family feels that way!

We have over 315 million people in this country, and once a year or so, one of our 315 million people goes nuts and kills a bunch of people. You call that a culture? I call it an anomaly.

 

[Pogo]

No it's an American term. Specifically US American. That's why we need this kind of examination and (e.g.) Canadians don't.

It's an American liberal term. As for the rest of us, we don't consider gun ownership some kind of culture.

Nor do I but that's not what it means.
What it actually does mean has already been articulated here, and that is, the idea that one solves one's problems by shooting at them. Including occasionally, oneself. The whole "might makes right" mentality.

That issue is a subheading under the greater masculinity issue.

But we don't have a society that believes in shooting somebody solves problems. Only a minority of our people actually feel that way, and they become criminals after they do shoot somebody. A culture would indicate that we approve of shooting people for no reason simply because guns are a part of everybody's life in America.

Oh but we absolutely do.

Having a sick culture doesn't mean every last person subscribes to it. Nor does it mean those who do will always act on it.

But it does mean when some loser feels powerless and seeks revenge for it, everything they've been taught since birth tells them, grab an AK and mow down some children or some shoppers or some random crowd. Once in a while, they follow through on it.

Wait a minute, who is teaching them to grab an AK and kill everybody in sight? I live in this country, and I don't feel that way; none of my friends feel that way; none of my family feels that way!

We have over 315 million people in this country, and once a year or so, one of our 315 million people goes nuts and kills a bunch of people. You call that a culture? I call it an anomaly.

Again ---- as I just posted ---- it doesn't mean literally everybody does it.

What it means, plain and simple, is that everybody's encouraged to do it. By treating Almighty Gun as a god instead of a weapon. So when you say "I don't feel that way" that's not an answer to "who is teaching them?"

Which returns us to your original point of the thread, the one the village idiot tried to goof away --- "whence comes this kid's (and by extension anyone's) conclusion that the way to keep himself safe is via firearm?" It's a good question, which is why I'm here. And again --- obviously it didn't come from his mother.

What then is left?
I

 

[Skull Pilot]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

correction: an inner city and urban society problem

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's an American liberal term. As for the rest of us, we don't consider gun ownership some kind of culture.

Nor do I but that's not what it means.
What it actually does mean has already been articulated here, and that is, the idea that one solves one's problems by shooting at them. Including occasionally, oneself. The whole "might makes right" mentality.

That issue is a subheading under the greater masculinity issue.

But we don't have a society that believes in shooting somebody solves problems. Only a minority of our people actually feel that way, and they become criminals after they do shoot somebody. A culture would indicate that we approve of shooting people for no reason simply because guns are a part of everybody's life in America.

Oh but we absolutely do.

Having a sick culture doesn't mean every last person subscribes to it. Nor does it mean those who do will always act on it.

But it does mean when some loser feels powerless and seeks revenge for it, everything they've been taught since birth tells them, grab an AK and mow down some children or some shoppers or some random crowd. Once in a while, they follow through on it.

Wait a minute, who is teaching them to grab an AK and kill everybody in sight? I live in this country, and I don't feel that way; none of my friends feel that way; none of my family feels that way!

We have over 315 million people in this country, and once a year or so, one of our 315 million people goes nuts and kills a bunch of people. You call that a culture? I call it an anomaly.

Again ---- as I just posted ---- it doesn't mean literally everybody does it.

What it means, plain and simple, is that everybody's encouraged to do it. By treating Almighty Gun as a god instead of a weapon.

No.....we do not encourage it. The only one close to encouraging it is the MSM, and I wouldn't even charge them with doing it.

When we get a nut with a gun, our police respond. They kill the suspect in many cases, or the kook realizes that he has no way out and kills himself. How is that encouraging more of that kind of activity?

If they are taken alive, they are locked up in prison or a mental facility the rest of their lives. Some like Dylann Roof are sentenced to death.

Saying we encourage mass killings is like saying we promote recreational drug usage. And in fact, we do promote recreational narcotics more than killing people with guns.

 

[Pogo]

Nor do I but that's not what it means.
What it actually does mean has already been articulated here, and that is, the idea that one solves one's problems by shooting at them. Including occasionally, oneself. The whole "might makes right" mentality.

That issue is a subheading under the greater masculinity issue.

But we don't have a society that believes in shooting somebody solves problems. Only a minority of our people actually feel that way, and they become criminals after they do shoot somebody. A culture would indicate that we approve of shooting people for no reason simply because guns are a part of everybody's life in America.

Oh but we absolutely do.

Having a sick culture doesn't mean every last person subscribes to it. Nor does it mean those who do will always act on it.

But it does mean when some loser feels powerless and seeks revenge for it, everything they've been taught since birth tells them, grab an AK and mow down some children or some shoppers or some random crowd. Once in a while, they follow through on it.

Wait a minute, who is teaching them to grab an AK and kill everybody in sight? I live in this country, and I don't feel that way; none of my friends feel that way; none of my family feels that way!

We have over 315 million people in this country, and once a year or so, one of our 315 million people goes nuts and kills a bunch of people. You call that a culture? I call it an anomaly.

Again ---- as I just posted ---- it doesn't mean literally everybody does it.

What it means, plain and simple, is that everybody's encouraged to do it. By treating Almighty Gun as a god instead of a weapon.

No.....we do not encourage it. The only one close to encouraging it is the MSM, and I wouldn't even charge them with doing it.

When we get a nut with a gun, our police respond. They kill the suspect in many cases, or the kook realizes that he has no way out and kills himself. How is that encouraging more of that kind of activity?

If they are taken alive, they are locked up in prison or a mental facility the rest of their lives. Some like Dylann Roof are sentenced to death.

Saying we encourage mass killings is like saying we promote recreational drug usage. And in fact, we do promote recreational narcotics more than killing people with guns.

Yes "we" DO encourage it. You may not consider yourself personally involved but "we" means the culture --- the values of death taught from birth by endless war toys, endless TV shows and movies, endless hero worship comic books etc etc etc. I certainly don't encourage it either but that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the sensory blitz that exists and thrives without (and despite) my influence.

So again --- if the mother isn't giving the kid this idea... and let's stipulate for the sake of argument that the father is not present........... from where exactly is he going to derive this conclusion, if not the myriad sources I have cited? Where? This is I believe your whole question in your title.

 

[BULLDOG]

She said he was carrying it for protection. Why do you hate the 2nd Amendment?

Right, for protection. Don't try that guilt trip on me. The second amendment doesn't give kids a constitutional right to illegally carry a firearm. That's why the kid is in jail today.

Does the 2nd have an age limit?

Most of our rights do. That's why 10 year olds cannot vote; although I'm sure the Democrats would love it if they could.

The constitution originally limited the right to vote to 21. The 14th amendment lowered it to 18.

Yes, but rights come with responsibilities; responsibilities that children are not capable of exercising such as the right to vote. After all, the Constitution makes no mention about felons, but the court ruled that it's constitutional to have such restrictions of felons owning or using firearms.

So you agree that going by the original wording of the constitution is goofy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But we don't have a society that believes in shooting somebody solves problems. Only a minority of our people actually feel that way, and they become criminals after they do shoot somebody. A culture would indicate that we approve of shooting people for no reason simply because guns are a part of everybody's life in America.

Oh but we absolutely do.

Having a sick culture doesn't mean every last person subscribes to it. Nor does it mean those who do will always act on it.

But it does mean when some loser feels powerless and seeks revenge for it, everything they've been taught since birth tells them, grab an AK and mow down some children or some shoppers or some random crowd. Once in a while, they follow through on it.

Wait a minute, who is teaching them to grab an AK and kill everybody in sight? I live in this country, and I don't feel that way; none of my friends feel that way; none of my family feels that way!

We have over 315 million people in this country, and once a year or so, one of our 315 million people goes nuts and kills a bunch of people. You call that a culture? I call it an anomaly.

Again ---- as I just posted ---- it doesn't mean literally everybody does it.

What it means, plain and simple, is that everybody's encouraged to do it. By treating Almighty Gun as a god instead of a weapon.

No.....we do not encourage it. The only one close to encouraging it is the MSM, and I wouldn't even charge them with doing it.

When we get a nut with a gun, our police respond. They kill the suspect in many cases, or the kook realizes that he has no way out and kills himself. How is that encouraging more of that kind of activity?

If they are taken alive, they are locked up in prison or a mental facility the rest of their lives. Some like Dylann Roof are sentenced to death.

Saying we encourage mass killings is like saying we promote recreational drug usage. And in fact, we do promote recreational narcotics more than killing people with guns.

Yes "we" DO encourage it. You may not consider yourself personally involved but "we" means the culture --- the values of death taught from birth by endless war toys, endless TV shows and movies, endless hero worship comic books etc etc etc. I certainly don't encourage it either but that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the sensory blitz that exists and thrives without (and despite) my influence.

So again --- if the mother isn't giving the kid this idea... and let's stipulate for the sake of argument that the father is not present........... from where exactly is he going to derive this conclusion, if not the myriad sources I have cited? Where? This is I believe your whole question in your title.

In this particular case, she almost did condone her kid carrying a gun. She certainly doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

When I was a child, we used to watch westerns. The old west and people who lived and died by the gun. Yet never a problem with kids and guns like we have today. We used to watch the Three Stooges. They used to take hammers and hit each other over the heads with them. That doesn't mean we were encouraging kids to be hammer murderers.

Television and movies have minimal (if any) influence on young criminals. Knowing they can get away with something is encouragement.

Kids are influenced by a lot of things--mostly their peers. But it's up to the parents to make sure that their children don't act on those influences. Sitting back and saying "They have to learn their own lessons" is just completely irresponsible. A father in the home willing to kick your ass for even the thought of having a gun is a very strong deterrent.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Oh but we absolutely do.

Having a sick culture doesn't mean every last person subscribes to it. Nor does it mean those who do will always act on it.

But it does mean when some loser feels powerless and seeks revenge for it, everything they've been taught since birth tells them, grab an AK and mow down some children or some shoppers or some random crowd. Once in a while, they follow through on it.

Wait a minute, who is teaching them to grab an AK and kill everybody in sight? I live in this country, and I don't feel that way; none of my friends feel that way; none of my family feels that way!

We have over 315 million people in this country, and once a year or so, one of our 315 million people goes nuts and kills a bunch of people. You call that a culture? I call it an anomaly.

Again ---- as I just posted ---- it doesn't mean literally everybody does it.

What it means, plain and simple, is that everybody's encouraged to do it. By treating Almighty Gun as a god instead of a weapon.

No.....we do not encourage it. The only one close to encouraging it is the MSM, and I wouldn't even charge them with doing it.

When we get a nut with a gun, our police respond. They kill the suspect in many cases, or the kook realizes that he has no way out and kills himself. How is that encouraging more of that kind of activity?

If they are taken alive, they are locked up in prison or a mental facility the rest of their lives. Some like Dylann Roof are sentenced to death.

Saying we encourage mass killings is like saying we promote recreational drug usage. And in fact, we do promote recreational narcotics more than killing people with guns.

Yes "we" DO encourage it. You may not consider yourself personally involved but "we" means the culture --- the values of death taught from birth by endless war toys, endless TV shows and movies, endless hero worship comic books etc etc etc. I certainly don't encourage it either but that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the sensory blitz that exists and thrives without (and despite) my influence.

So again --- if the mother isn't giving the kid this idea... and let's stipulate for the sake of argument that the father is not present........... from where exactly is he going to derive this conclusion, if not the myriad sources I have cited? Where? This is I believe your whole question in your title.

In this particular case, she almost did condone her kid carrying a gun. She certainly doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

When I was a child, we used to watch westerns. The old west and people who lived and died by the gun. Yet never a problem with kids and guns like we have today. We used to watch the Three Stooges. They used to take hammers and hit each other over the heads with them. That doesn't mean we were encouraging kids to be hammer murderers.

Television and movies have minimal (if any) influence on young criminals. Knowing they can get away with something is encouragement.

Kids are influenced by a lot of things--mostly their peers. But it's up to the parents to make sure that their children don't act on those influences. Sitting back and saying "They have to learn their own lessons" is just completely irresponsible. A father in the home willing to kick your ass for even the thought of having a gun is a very strong deterrent.

The problems started when Reagan funneled drugs into the inner cities.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Right, for protection. Don't try that guilt trip on me. The second amendment doesn't give kids a constitutional right to illegally carry a firearm. That's why the kid is in jail today.

Does the 2nd have an age limit?

Most of our rights do. That's why 10 year olds cannot vote; although I'm sure the Democrats would love it if they could.

The constitution originally limited the right to vote to 21. The 14th amendment lowered it to 18.

Yes, but rights come with responsibilities; responsibilities that children are not capable of exercising such as the right to vote. After all, the Constitution makes no mention about felons, but the court ruled that it's constitutional to have such restrictions of felons owning or using firearms.

So you agree that going by the original wording of the constitution is goofy.

Not at all. What I'm saying is that there are restrictions on rights in this country. I'm sure the founders never intended for kids to have guns and vote. They just assumed people in the future would have common sense to understand what they meant when they wrote those rights. A child can't yell at a teacher "GO F YOURSELF!" and then sue the school for violation of free speech when he gets suspended.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wait a minute, who is teaching them to grab an AK and kill everybody in sight? I live in this country, and I don't feel that way; none of my friends feel that way; none of my family feels that way!

We have over 315 million people in this country, and once a year or so, one of our 315 million people goes nuts and kills a bunch of people. You call that a culture? I call it an anomaly.

Again ---- as I just posted ---- it doesn't mean literally everybody does it.

What it means, plain and simple, is that everybody's encouraged to do it. By treating Almighty Gun as a god instead of a weapon.

No.....we do not encourage it. The only one close to encouraging it is the MSM, and I wouldn't even charge them with doing it.

When we get a nut with a gun, our police respond. They kill the suspect in many cases, or the kook realizes that he has no way out and kills himself. How is that encouraging more of that kind of activity?

If they are taken alive, they are locked up in prison or a mental facility the rest of their lives. Some like Dylann Roof are sentenced to death.

Saying we encourage mass killings is like saying we promote recreational drug usage. And in fact, we do promote recreational narcotics more than killing people with guns.

Yes "we" DO encourage it. You may not consider yourself personally involved but "we" means the culture --- the values of death taught from birth by endless war toys, endless TV shows and movies, endless hero worship comic books etc etc etc. I certainly don't encourage it either but that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the sensory blitz that exists and thrives without (and despite) my influence.

So again --- if the mother isn't giving the kid this idea... and let's stipulate for the sake of argument that the father is not present........... from where exactly is he going to derive this conclusion, if not the myriad sources I have cited? Where? This is I believe your whole question in your title.

In this particular case, she almost did condone her kid carrying a gun. She certainly doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

When I was a child, we used to watch westerns. The old west and people who lived and died by the gun. Yet never a problem with kids and guns like we have today. We used to watch the Three Stooges. They used to take hammers and hit each other over the heads with them. That doesn't mean we were encouraging kids to be hammer murderers.

Television and movies have minimal (if any) influence on young criminals. Knowing they can get away with something is encouragement.

Kids are influenced by a lot of things--mostly their peers. But it's up to the parents to make sure that their children don't act on those influences. Sitting back and saying "They have to learn their own lessons" is just completely irresponsible. A father in the home willing to kick your ass for even the thought of having a gun is a very strong deterrent.

The problems started when Reagan funneled drugs into the inner cities.

Ronald Reagan left office in 1988. It is now 2017. That means Reagan has been out of office for almost 30 years. And we've also had 16 years of Democrat leadership since he left office.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Again ---- as I just posted ---- it doesn't mean literally everybody does it.

What it means, plain and simple, is that everybody's encouraged to do it. By treating Almighty Gun as a god instead of a weapon.

No.....we do not encourage it. The only one close to encouraging it is the MSM, and I wouldn't even charge them with doing it.

When we get a nut with a gun, our police respond. They kill the suspect in many cases, or the kook realizes that he has no way out and kills himself. How is that encouraging more of that kind of activity?

If they are taken alive, they are locked up in prison or a mental facility the rest of their lives. Some like Dylann Roof are sentenced to death.

Saying we encourage mass killings is like saying we promote recreational drug usage. And in fact, we do promote recreational narcotics more than killing people with guns.

Yes "we" DO encourage it. You may not consider yourself personally involved but "we" means the culture --- the values of death taught from birth by endless war toys, endless TV shows and movies, endless hero worship comic books etc etc etc. I certainly don't encourage it either but that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the sensory blitz that exists and thrives without (and despite) my influence.

So again --- if the mother isn't giving the kid this idea... and let's stipulate for the sake of argument that the father is not present........... from where exactly is he going to derive this conclusion, if not the myriad sources I have cited? Where? This is I believe your whole question in your title.

In this particular case, she almost did condone her kid carrying a gun. She certainly doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

When I was a child, we used to watch westerns. The old west and people who lived and died by the gun. Yet never a problem with kids and guns like we have today. We used to watch the Three Stooges. They used to take hammers and hit each other over the heads with them. That doesn't mean we were encouraging kids to be hammer murderers.

Television and movies have minimal (if any) influence on young criminals. Knowing they can get away with something is encouragement.

Kids are influenced by a lot of things--mostly their peers. But it's up to the parents to make sure that their children don't act on those influences. Sitting back and saying "They have to learn their own lessons" is just completely irresponsible. A father in the home willing to kick your ass for even the thought of having a gun is a very strong deterrent.

The problems started when Reagan funneled drugs into the inner cities.

View attachment 122729

Ronald Reagan left office in 1988. It is now 2017. That means Reagan has been out of office for almost 30 years. And we've also had 16 years of Democrat leadership since he left office.

Crime began sharply declining shortly after the Reagan spike and continues to today.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

That's fucking bullshit. Most people I know working 80 hours a week are doing that because they didn't get the education they should have. There are plenty of good paying jobs out there being filled by educated people immigrating to this country. Parenting is the issue 90% of the time. Blaming the left or the right is a childish immature argument. Parents are failing and this generation is a fucking mess.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

No.....we do not encourage it. The only one close to encouraging it is the MSM, and I wouldn't even charge them with doing it.

When we get a nut with a gun, our police respond. They kill the suspect in many cases, or the kook realizes that he has no way out and kills himself. How is that encouraging more of that kind of activity?

If they are taken alive, they are locked up in prison or a mental facility the rest of their lives. Some like Dylann Roof are sentenced to death.

Saying we encourage mass killings is like saying we promote recreational drug usage. And in fact, we do promote recreational narcotics more than killing people with guns.

Yes "we" DO encourage it. You may not consider yourself personally involved but "we" means the culture --- the values of death taught from birth by endless war toys, endless TV shows and movies, endless hero worship comic books etc etc etc. I certainly don't encourage it either but that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the sensory blitz that exists and thrives without (and despite) my influence.

So again --- if the mother isn't giving the kid this idea... and let's stipulate for the sake of argument that the father is not present........... from where exactly is he going to derive this conclusion, if not the myriad sources I have cited? Where? This is I believe your whole question in your title.

In this particular case, she almost did condone her kid carrying a gun. She certainly doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

When I was a child, we used to watch westerns. The old west and people who lived and died by the gun. Yet never a problem with kids and guns like we have today. We used to watch the Three Stooges. They used to take hammers and hit each other over the heads with them. That doesn't mean we were encouraging kids to be hammer murderers.

Television and movies have minimal (if any) influence on young criminals. Knowing they can get away with something is encouragement.

Kids are influenced by a lot of things--mostly their peers. But it's up to the parents to make sure that their children don't act on those influences. Sitting back and saying "They have to learn their own lessons" is just completely irresponsible. A father in the home willing to kick your ass for even the thought of having a gun is a very strong deterrent.

The problems started when Reagan funneled drugs into the inner cities.

View attachment 122729

Ronald Reagan left office in 1988. It is now 2017. That means Reagan has been out of office for almost 30 years. And we've also had 16 years of Democrat leadership since he left office.

Crime began sharply declining shortly after the Reagan spike and continues to today.

Negative, many places violent crime is back on the rise.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

I found a local gun story that I wanted to share because the accused is a minor. Kids with guns are not all that unusual (especially here in Cleveland) but what I found most telling is the response of the mother.

In short, this kid was arrested for having BB gun in a public park (very similar to the Tamir Rice situation) a year earlier. The judge went easy on the kid, but now the 16 year old was busted having a real loaded gun. Here are some quotes from the mother:

"He has to learn the right way. I can't stop him." When the I TEAM asked where he got the gun this time, his mother said, "I don't know. Don't know. He was using it for protection. He was walking down the street and people would shoot at him. Nowadays, that's what you need for protection. I don't consider it a good thing."

That mom says she did talk to her son before the Parma BB gun incident and after it. Didn’t matter. She said, “Kids these days need to learn their own lessons. He's learning his lessons."

Teen caught with BB gun at Parma park now busted with gun; mom says she can’t stop him

With the path this kid is on, it's more than likely he'll be dead or in prison for murder the next decade. Then the left will blame the guns.

Another thing that struck me: she said "I don't know, and I can't stop him." Not "We can't stop him" as if there was a father figure around. This woman practically justified her son illegally carrying a likely stolen gun underage. When he gets older and arrested for shooting somebody, I'm sure the mother will once again respond to a news interview by saying "My baby didn't do nutting wrong, he's a good boy." If he gets gunned down in the street, well........then I guess he "learned his own lessons."

There is more to it than a parenting problem. There's a society problem.

In what world do kids think they need weapons to protect themselves? Well, in a society that is failing to protect people, to instill morals into kids and all of that.

The right love to say how it's the parents' fault. The problem is that the right will also push the very same parents to work 80 hours a week so the rich can get richer. They also don't place any responsibility on schools to help deal with all the issues out there. So, the right essentially like to create the environment for this kind of thing, and then bitch and moan that the parents aren't doing anything about it.

Really? You mean it was the right that promoted single-parent families? It was the right that told women to give up their husband for a job? The right promoted that???

Well if it's a society problem and the mother was correct in saying he needed the gun for protection, why not give every 16 year old in the ghetto a gun for protection? After all, it's not a parenting issue now is it?

Maybe.......just maybe if this kid had a father around, he might not be in trouble today. Maybe.....just maybe, with a husband and father, they would be able to afford a nicer area to live with two incomes.

So you don't want 16 year old kids to have a gun. How long before you want then to have one? I thought more guns made people safer.

Typical liberal who can't use common sense. I suppose you think a 12 year old driving is the same as an 18 year old? No, and neither is carrying a gun. Dummy.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Yes "we" DO encourage it. You may not consider yourself personally involved but "we" means the culture --- the values of death taught from birth by endless war toys, endless TV shows and movies, endless hero worship comic books etc etc etc. I certainly don't encourage it either but that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the sensory blitz that exists and thrives without (and despite) my influence.

So again --- if the mother isn't giving the kid this idea... and let's stipulate for the sake of argument that the father is not present........... from where exactly is he going to derive this conclusion, if not the myriad sources I have cited? Where? This is I believe your whole question in your title.

In this particular case, she almost did condone her kid carrying a gun. She certainly doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

When I was a child, we used to watch westerns. The old west and people who lived and died by the gun. Yet never a problem with kids and guns like we have today. We used to watch the Three Stooges. They used to take hammers and hit each other over the heads with them. That doesn't mean we were encouraging kids to be hammer murderers.

Television and movies have minimal (if any) influence on young criminals. Knowing they can get away with something is encouragement.

Kids are influenced by a lot of things--mostly their peers. But it's up to the parents to make sure that their children don't act on those influences. Sitting back and saying "They have to learn their own lessons" is just completely irresponsible. A father in the home willing to kick your ass for even the thought of having a gun is a very strong deterrent.

The problems started when Reagan funneled drugs into the inner cities.

View attachment 122729

Ronald Reagan left office in 1988. It is now 2017. That means Reagan has been out of office for almost 30 years. And we've also had 16 years of Democrat leadership since he left office.

Crime began sharply declining shortly after the Reagan spike and continues to today.

Negative, many places violent crime is back on the rise.

Not "many." And nationally, the trend is unchanged.