gun grabbers are the Book Burners of the 2nd Amendment, New York is one of the worst...

[2aguy]

Book Burners burned books simply because they didn't like the books.....gun grabbers are the Book Burners of the gun world......they hate guns and will do anything they can to attack gun owners and their tools......

Here we have New York, at it again with another worthless gun control effort.....mandating trigger pull weight...to make guns less accurate when you need them for self defense...

NY Democrats Introduce Mandatory Trigger Pull Weight Bill - The Truth About Guns

I voted for the republicans last November. I am totally for gun control. After the abuses that lead to slaughter of 20 children in an elementary school we need to step back from the abyss and think this thru a little more. Those poor kids, are we supposed to arm preschoolers? Silly, It speaks more to the issue WE NEED gun control. As a Conservative Trump voter, I am GOOD with that.

and you are foolish......

Americans use guns to stop violent crime 1,500,000 times a year........20 children died, yet how many lives are saved with guns...out of that 1,500,000 times a year...

More Lives Are Saved by Defensive Gun Uses Than Taken by Criminal Gun Uses - The Truth About Guns

To figure out how many lives are saved by defensive gun uses, I turn once again to Kleck and Gertz’s article Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun. They found that 15.7 percent of people involved in a DGU believed that they “almost certainly” saved theirs or someone else’s life.

That might strike some people as an awfully large percentage. But if you take into account the fact that most locales regard the mere act of pulling a gun as deadly force, combined with the fact that most places require someone to be in “reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm” before he or she can lawfully use deadly force, the number seems feasible.

In addition to the “almost certainly” pool, The K-G study also found that 14.6 percent of respondents believed that someone “probably would have” been killed if not for their DGU.

Because I want my numbers to be distinctly conservative let’s say that nine out of 10 of the “almost certainly” folks were wrong. And let’s say that 99 out of 100 of the “probably” people were also incorrect. That means we can state with a fair degree of certainty that at least 1.716 percentof the 1.46 million DGUs actually saved a life.

That translates to over 25,000 lives saved annually by guns.

According to the CDC, between 1999 and 2010 there were an average of 11,740 gun-related homicides annually. In 2014 the number was 10,945.

Bottom line: for every criminal firearm homicide (most of which consist of criminals shooing other criminals) more than two lives are saved by defensive gun uses.

Protection against government tyranny considerations aside, this is the human value of the Second Amendment.

 

[2aguy]

Book Burners burned books simply because they didn't like the books.....gun grabbers are the Book Burners of the gun world......they hate guns and will do anything they can to attack gun owners and their tools......

Here we have New York, at it again with another worthless gun control effort.....mandating trigger pull weight...to make guns less accurate when you need them for self defense...

NY Democrats Introduce Mandatory Trigger Pull Weight Bill - The Truth About Guns

I voted for the republicans last November. I am totally for gun control. After the abuses that lead to slaughter of 20 children in an elementary school we need to step back from the abyss and think this thru a little more. Those poor kids, are we supposed to arm preschoolers? Silly, It speaks more to the issue WE NEED gun control. As a Conservative Trump voter, I am GOOD with that.

and more information on Children and guns.....something you should look at before you decide to take guns away from Americans who use them to save lives....

Number of Children in the United States 2010 census...74.2 million.....

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193



Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135



murder of children by other means.....703

Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

you are still wrong....

Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69
Total accidental gun death for kids in 2014...50
2015...48
2014...50
2013...69
2012...58
2011...74
2010...62
2009...48
2008...62
2007...65
2006...54
2005...75
2004...63
2003...56
2002...60
2001...72
2000...86
1999...88

 

[2aguy]

Book Burners burned books simply because they didn't like the books.....gun grabbers are the Book Burners of the gun world......they hate guns and will do anything they can to attack gun owners and their tools......

Here we have New York, at it again with another worthless gun control effort.....mandating trigger pull weight...to make guns less accurate when you need them for self defense...

NY Democrats Introduce Mandatory Trigger Pull Weight Bill - The Truth About Guns

I voted for the republicans last November. I am totally for gun control. After the abuses that lead to slaughter of 20 children in an elementary school we need to step back from the abyss and think this thru a little more. Those poor kids, are we supposed to arm preschoolers? Silly, It speaks more to the issue WE NEED gun control. As a Conservative Trump voter, I am GOOD with that.

It is interesting that a killer goes into a gun free zone, with illegal guns to commit murder.....and you want to ban guns from Americans who own 400 million guns.......and over 15 million people who carry guns for self defense......

And yet no posts about banning cars...which are far deadlier to kids.....

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

Death by car and gun by age, 2015...

<1: Car 64, .....Gun 1

1-4: Car 332, ...Gun 25

5-9: Car 351, .....Gun 7

10-14: Car 412, .....Gun 15

15-19: Car 2,535, .....Gun 52

Total Car.... 3,694

Total Gun.... 100

 

[2aguy]

Book Burners burned books simply because they didn't like the books.....gun grabbers are the Book Burners of the gun world......they hate guns and will do anything they can to attack gun owners and their tools......

Here we have New York, at it again with another worthless gun control effort.....mandating trigger pull weight...to make guns less accurate when you need them for self defense...

NY Democrats Introduce Mandatory Trigger Pull Weight Bill - The Truth About Guns

I voted for the republicans last November. I am totally for gun control. After the abuses that lead to slaughter of 20 children in an elementary school we need to step back from the abyss and think this thru a little more. Those poor kids, are we supposed to arm preschoolers? Silly, It speaks more to the issue WE NEED gun control. As a Conservative Trump voter, I am GOOD with that.

We already have gun control.....20,000 laws on the books at the local, state and federal level...and it is against the law already to use guns to commit crimes.....

Please tell us which gun laws you want, and please explain how they would have stopped Sandy Hook...since the guns were taken through murder of the owner......

Which gun laws.....

 

[MaryL]

Book Burners burned books simply because they didn't like the books.....gun grabbers are the Book Burners of the gun world......they hate guns and will do anything they can to attack gun owners and their tools......

Here we have New York, at it again with another worthless gun control effort.....mandating trigger pull weight...to make guns less accurate when you need them for self defense...

NY Democrats Introduce Mandatory Trigger Pull Weight Bill - The Truth About Guns

I voted for the republicans last November. I am totally for gun control. After the abuses that lead to slaughter of 20 children in an elementary school we need to step back from the abyss and think this thru a little more. Those poor kids, are we supposed to arm preschoolers? Silly, It speaks more to the issue WE NEED gun control. As a Conservative Trump voter, I am GOOD with that.

and you are foolish......

Americans use guns to stop violent crime 1,500,000 times a year........20 children died, yet how many lives are saved with guns...out of that 1,500,000 times a year...

More Lives Are Saved by Defensive Gun Uses Than Taken by Criminal Gun Uses - The Truth About Guns

To figure out how many lives are saved by defensive gun uses, I turn once again to Kleck and Gertz’s article Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun. They found that 15.7 percent of people involved in a DGU believed that they “almost certainly” saved theirs or someone else’s life.

That might strike some people as an awfully large percentage. But if you take into account the fact that most locales regard the mere act of pulling a gun as deadly force, combined with the fact that most places require someone to be in “reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm” before he or she can lawfully use deadly force, the number seems feasible.

In addition to the “almost certainly” pool, The K-G study also found that 14.6 percent of respondents believed that someone “probably would have” been killed if not for their DGU.

Because I want my numbers to be distinctly conservative let’s say that nine out of 10 of the “almost certainly” folks were wrong. And let’s say that 99 out of 100 of the “probably” people were also incorrect. That means we can state with a fair degree of certainty that at least 1.716 percentof the 1.46 million DGUs actually saved a life.

That translates to over 25,000 lives saved annually by guns.

According to the CDC, between 1999 and 2010 there were an average of 11,740 gun-related homicides annually. In 2014 the number was 10,945.

Bottom line: for every criminal firearm homicide (most of which consist of criminals shooing other criminals) more than two lives are saved by defensive gun uses.

Protection against government tyranny considerations aside, this is the human value of the Second Amendment.

Really? The world I live in, that just isn't factual. But then AGAIN, auto accidents kill and maim more people than guns, but we are all for lessening car owners responsibilities, getting licensed and tested, let alone the old fashioned safety tests the DMV used to mandate. It seems that this comes down to: Lets don't bother to be responsible citizens? Because we don't care?

 

[RealDave]

[...]

I don't hate guns. I hate the idea of a sea of untrained idiots running around with loaded guns.

Which is why I advocate competence testing and an associated training requirement for all gun owners -- much to the dismay of many pro-gunners who believe there should be no constraints on gun ownership.

This is why you are wrong...

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard, but terrorists have little trouble

In contrast with the free-firing United States, Europe is generally seen as a haven from serious gun violence. Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”

Under your plan we would have a society where only the rich, powerful, the criminals and the cops have guns.......

This is really funny chit.

The people that want to make healthcare something only the rich & powerful can have but has a fit thinking guns might be that way.

 

[RealDave]

[...]

I don't hate guns. I hate the idea of a sea of untrained idiots running around with loaded guns.

Which is why I advocate competence testing and an associated training requirement for all gun owners -- much to the dismay of many pro-gunners who believe there should be no constraints on gun ownership.

Because you don't care that any training requirement will be used to keep people from owning and carrying guns. That is what they do in Europe, which is why only the rich own hunting shotguns.......in the past these were known as Literacy Tests...and they were used by democrats to keep blacks from voting....now, democrats want to use the same kind of Literacy Test to keep Americans from using the 2nd Amendment Right to keep and bear arms....

There are constrainsts...you can't be a felon, you can't have been adjudicated mentally ill......and guns are not complicated tools.....and that is why as we went from 200 million guns to 400 million, and we now have over 15 million people actually carrying guns for self defense, our accidental gun death rate and our non fatal gun accident rate have both gone down, not up....

The poor people can buy a gun for $600.00 but can't afford a course to be properly trained?

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Under your plan we would have a society where only the rich, powerful, the criminals and the cops have guns.......

Why?

You have expressed concern that a competency and training requirement would necessarily evolve into a means of restricting access to guns by ordinary citizens, which would be true if indelible, constitutionally assured safeguards are not included in the legislation which implemented a competence and training requirement.

I don't know how old you are but I am able to recall a time when, even in a prohibitive place like New York City, marksmanship training programs were available to high school kids.

Gun Clubs at School: Not so long ago, they were common — and safe.

I remember Friday night training sessions in the gymnasium of P.S.10 in Brooklyn, when dozens of teen-age boys, including me, would lug our cased, bolt-action .22 rifles to that schools gym where we were taught all we needed to know about proper use and handling of firearms.

In addition to that there were programs in which adults (and their teen-age kids, if desired) would board special buses on a Saturday morning and spend the day at a rifle range near Nyack, NY. It was no big deal, but it was a hell of a lot of fun and it produced a lot of very knowledgeable gun owners.

I don't know what happened to those programs but they were gradually discontinued, an unfortunate circumstance which occurred in the same time frame as more repressive gun laws began to emerge. So it seems the situation is opposite of that which you believe it to be. Those training and competence programs produced more competent and responsible gun-owners at all levels of society, not less.

Back then, especially right after WW-II, the American Rifleman was a taken-for-granted reality. There were commercial rifle and pistol ranges all over the five boroughs of New York City. Today they don't exist -- and guns in New York are a rarity.

Those programs need to be brought back in places like New York. Training is a good thing.