Gunman at DC Navy Yard shoots at least 7

[Synthaholic]

No kidding. I'm still shaking my head. It's beyond bizarre. Nothing factual or historical which could lead to this conclusion.

For the benefit of Asclepias:

THE HISTORY OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT

Full essay:

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/89vand.pdf

Conclusion:

English history made two things clear to the American revolutionaries: force of arms was the
only effective check on government, and standing armies threatened liberty. Recognition of these premises meant that the force of arms necessary to check government had to be placed in the hands of citizens. The English theorists Blackstone and Harrington advocated these tenants. Because the public purpose of the right to keep arms was to check government, the right necessarily belonged to the individual and, as a matter of theory, was thought to be absolute in that it could not be abrogated by the prevailing rulers.

These views were adopted by the framers, both Federalists and Antifederalists. Neither group trusted government. Both believed the greatest danger to the new republic was tyrannical government and that the ultimate check on tyranny was an armed population. It is beyond dispute that the second amendment right was to serve the same public purpose as advocated by the English theorists. The check on all government, not simply the federal government, was the armed population, the militia. Government would not be accorded the power to create a select militia since such a body would become the government's instrument. The whole of the population would comprise the militia. As the constitutional debates prove, the framers recognized that the common public purpose of preserving freedom would be served by protecting each individual's right to arms, thus empowering the people to resist tyranny and preserve the republic. The intent was not to create
a right for other (pg.1039) governments, the individual states; it was to preserve the people's right to a free state, just as it says.

-DAVID E. VANDERCOY, Professor of Law, Valparaiso University School of Law

Thanks for providing a link. Here's mine. Word to the wise. Historians omitted or glossed over lots of things.

The Second Amendment was Ratified to Preserve Slavery

Truth out dot org? You consider that a reliable source?

Tell you what, just so that your brain doesn't fart if I try to explain why no legitimate law article would be written using a pseudonym, let us conclude that you are 100% right. I will then switch my defense of the right to keep and bear arms to the 14th Amendment, which was clearly ratified with the intention of arming former slaves so they could fight off the whites who wanted to oppress them. Unfortunately, assholes like you, argued that it did apply to the states, which allowed the states to prohibit people from owning guns without a background check that involved skin color. By continuing to argue that there is no personal right to bear arms, even for the descendents of slaves, you are a racist, not me.

The author is Thom Hartmann, and he is a reliable source, and not the only source.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Patrols-Violence-Carolinas-Historical/dp/0674012348/"]Slave Patrols: Law and Violence in Virginia and the Carolinas (Harvard Historical Studies): Sally E. Hadden: 9780674012349: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]



We already had a whole thread on this subject, that I started back in January:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...endment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery.html

 

[Missourian]

Two things we are going to find out about this guy by Friday.

1) Everyone in his life knew he was seriously disturbed with serious problems.

2) Despite that it was much too easy for him to get a gun.

Why do you want to wait until Friday to find that out?

I'm giving them enough time to start unwinding this guy's past.

Usually takes about three days to find all his friends to tell us he was nuts, and the gun store admitting they sold him a small arsenal despite that quirky look in his eye.

Fox news is reporting he told friends he was going to thailand and stayed for more than a month...

My guess is he didn't go to thailand...but instead headed to a training camp.

Just a guess, no proof...a gut feeling.

 

[Brain357]

So did luddly come back and insist again that military bases are not gun free zones?
What a complete and utter retard.

These mass shootings never happen on a shooting range!!
Gun free zones assure the liberals beloved criminals the unarmed victims they prefer!!

Thanks liberals on behalf of all crazy criminals who shoot up schools, theaters and military bases!!

This sounds like there was a lot of security. Still didn't make much of a difference. Do you really think we will ever have more security at schools and theaters?

Chris Kyle and friend were gunned down at a shooting range and the shooter got away.

Innocent people died today. Why don't you stop your idiot political rant until the facts are out at least.

 

[novasteve]

Libs, this guys must have had some incredibly job skills for them to have overlooked his criminal history. Eh?

 

[tinydancer]

No kidding. I'm still shaking my head. It's beyond bizarre. Nothing factual or historical which could lead to this conclusion.

For the benefit of Asclepias:

THE HISTORY OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT

Full essay:

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/89vand.pdf

Conclusion:

English history made two things clear to the American revolutionaries: force of arms was the
only effective check on government, and standing armies threatened liberty. Recognition of these premises meant that the force of arms necessary to check government had to be placed in the hands of citizens. The English theorists Blackstone and Harrington advocated these tenants. Because the public purpose of the right to keep arms was to check government, the right necessarily belonged to the individual and, as a matter of theory, was thought to be absolute in that it could not be abrogated by the prevailing rulers.

These views were adopted by the framers, both Federalists and Antifederalists. Neither group trusted government. Both believed the greatest danger to the new republic was tyrannical government and that the ultimate check on tyranny was an armed population. It is beyond dispute that the second amendment right was to serve the same public purpose as advocated by the English theorists. The check on all government, not simply the federal government, was the armed population, the militia. Government would not be accorded the power to create a select militia since such a body would become the government's instrument. The whole of the population would comprise the militia. As the constitutional debates prove, the framers recognized that the common public purpose of preserving freedom would be served by protecting each individual's right to arms, thus empowering the people to resist tyranny and preserve the republic. The intent was not to create
a right for other (pg.1039) governments, the individual states; it was to preserve the people's right to a free state, just as it says.

-DAVID E. VANDERCOY, Professor of Law, Valparaiso University School of Law

Thanks for providing a link. Here's mine. Word to the wise. Historians omitted or glossed over lots of things.

The Second Amendment was Ratified to Preserve Slavery

I'm POSITIVE that tinydancer will be along shortly to apologize to you.

Because she's classy!

Not a chance.

I don't see reality of American history solely thru the lens of racial issues. The Second does not come under the slavery umbrella.

Now the Fourteenth most certainly. That's all about making sure that the freemen could have the rights granted under the Second.

Well partially. There's a lot more to it. But the 14th was applied as recently 2010 McDonald vs Chicago. The Court used it to back up their decision on the 2nd.

By the way, I really do know my shit on this. Check out the fabulous debate I had with Dante in the bullring.

I loved debating him. Highly intelligent and well versed.

 

[williepete]

[It's Thom Hartman, so yeah, take it with a grain of salt.

At the recommendation of two liberal friends of mine, I listened to Thom Hartman's radio show way back when. That he was snarky and condescending didn't bother me. That's a common shtick on talk radio. What bothered me was the BS he'd make up on the fly. If he'd have taken time to research and spin real history, he'd only fool the truly ignorant. But when he's on a roll, anything will just fly out of his mouth. He'd state as fact the most outrageously false things and used them as support for his vision of a collectivist future. His audience (my liberal friends included), ate it up as fact. When he sold his soul to Russian TV as Putin's mouthpiece, that did it for me. He successfully filled in the useful idiot square. You've really got to suspend reality to listen to him or willfully join his agenda of pushing the unicorn ranch fantasy--Again.

How many millions died last time chasing Utopia? Wait, hold that answer. It's still going on in Cuba, China and North Korea so the score isn't in yet. But on the bright side, all three have strict gun control.

 

[Synthaholic]

Two things we are going to find out about this guy by Friday.

1) Everyone in his life knew he was seriously disturbed with serious problems.

2) Despite that it was much too easy for him to get a gun.

Why do you want to wait until Friday to find that out?

^^^ Reading comprehension issues.

 

[Synthaholic]

Why?

What was the purpose of the Constitution, QW?

Let's keep it simple for you.

It was written so that idiots on message boards could argue about why it was written.

Is this an admission that you don't know?

 

[novasteve]

Why do you want to wait until Friday to find that out?

I'm giving them enough time to start unwinding this guy's past.

Usually takes about three days to find all his friends to tell us he was nuts, and the gun store admitting they sold him a small arsenal despite that quirky look in his eye.

Fox news is reporting he told friends he was going to thailand and stayed for more than a month...

My guess is he didn't go to thailand...but instead headed to a training camp.

Just a guess, no proof...a gut feeling.

I doubt he is a jihadist but southern Thailand has jihadis

 

[Brain357]

Why was his criminal record overlooked?

So did luddly come back and insist again that military bases are not gun free zones?
What a complete and utter retard.

These mass shootings never happen on a shooting range!!
Gun free zones assure the liberals beloved criminals the unarmed victims they prefer!!

Thanks liberals on behalf of all crazy criminals who shoot up schools, theaters and military bases!!

This sounds like there was a lot of security. Still didn't make much of a difference. Do you really think we will ever have more security at schools and theaters?

Chris Kyle and friend were gunned down at a shooting range and the shooter got away.

Innocent people died today. Why don't you stop your idiot political rant until the facts are out at least.

Fuck off you HYPERPARTISAN ****.
2 people is not a mass shooting.

You retarded pile of liberal shit.

Gun free zones are the facts.

You are a liberal shit stain.
Go away.
You make decent human beings sick.
Vile, savage scum!!

2 people still dead. That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.

 

[Brain357]

Fuck off you HYPERPARTISAN ****.
2 people is not a mass shooting.

You retarded pile of liberal shit.

Gun free zones are the facts.

You are a liberal shit stain.
Go away.
You make decent human beings sick.
Vile, savage scum!!

2 people still dead. That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.

2 people is better than 12, 20, 50!!!
Gun free zones empower criminals.
Hence mass killings ALWAYS happen in GUN FREE ZONES!!!!

Armed citizens PREVENT the death of innocents.
Hence NO mass shootings on shooting ranges.

You retarded shit eating douche nozzle!!

There have been mass shootings with concealed carry people there. Unfortunately you can't always tell who the good and bad guys are. Here is a quote from the Tucson shooting:
"Zamudio later stated that he initially mistook the identity of the shooter and had considered drawing his weapon before realizing that individual was not the shooter."
Clearly the location of the Tucson shooting was not a gun free zone. Shootings happen everywhere. Military bases and shooting ranges.

 

[Synthaholic]

Why do you want to wait until Friday to find that out?

I'm giving them enough time to start unwinding this guy's past.

Usually takes about three days to find all his friends to tell us he was nuts, and the gun store admitting they sold him a small arsenal despite that quirky look in his eye.

Well as concerned citizens maybe we should give the government a clue:

ATTENTION INVESTIGATORS, CHECK SOCIAL MEDIA FIRST FOR THIS GUYS MANIFESTO.

You're welcome.


It will still take them to Friday to figure out everybody knew this guy was screwy and had guns.

I've seen an interview with his "best friend and roommate" from Texas who said there were no indications of this event. The guy was apparently a video game addict, partial to FPS games, so watch for the obligatory "video games are the devil" statements.

 

[Synthaholic]

Yawn.

Bill Maher Admits He Lied To Get People To Appear In 'Religulous' | NewsBusters

Fail. This has nothing to do with his broadcasts.

You didn't say anything about broadcasts, did you?

Remember when he said he had a lot of stuff about Christine O'Donnel and that he would show a video every week until she came on his show? Remember how what he actually had was the same clips recycled multiple times? Does that count as a lie?

No. Did he claim they were different clips? Did he claim he would show different clips until she came on? Again, no.

Remember when he said that the Senate didn't have a filibuster? And when he said that a 50 to 49 vote would mean that the Vice President came in to break the tie? Was that lying?

No, I don't remember that, and I've seen every one of his shows.

And in case of a Senate tie, the Veep DOES hold the tiebreaker.

That's how the Bush Tax Cuts were inflicted upon America.

Remember when he said that the people that flew airplanes into buildings were the opposite of cowardly Americans, and then said he didn't? Was that lying?

No, that's you lying right now. He never said that.

Or are you just full of shit?

So, what was the purpose of the Constitution?

Or are you going to punk out again?

 

[Vox]

Why was his criminal record overlooked?

This sounds like there was a lot of security. Still didn't make much of a difference. Do you really think we will ever have more security at schools and theaters?

Chris Kyle and friend were gunned down at a shooting range and the shooter got away.

Innocent people died today. Why don't you stop your idiot political rant until the facts are out at least.

Fuck off you HYPERPARTISAN ****.
2 people is not a mass shooting.

You retarded pile of liberal shit.

Gun free zones are the facts.

You are a liberal shit stain.
Go away.
You make decent human beings sick.
Vile, savage scum!!

2 people still dead. That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.

it means you were lying substituting homicide for reasons which can be found in the relationships between those 3 and a mass random shooting of a psycho "to show them all"

 

[Black_Label]

Fuck off you HYPERPARTISAN ****.
2 people is not a mass shooting.

You retarded pile of liberal shit.

Gun free zones are the facts.

You are a liberal shit stain.
Go away.
You make decent human beings sick.
Vile, savage scum!!

2 people still dead. That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.

2 people is better than 12, 20, 50!!!
Gun free zones empower criminals.
Hence mass killings ALWAYS happen in GUN FREE ZONES!!!!

Armed citizens PREVENT the death of innocents.
Hence NO mass shootings on shooting ranges.

You retarded shit eating douche nozzle!!

Damn are you stupid, you can parrot the right wing propaganda like toucan sam!

Now for the facts, only 23% of mass shootings happen in gun free zones.

http://libcloud.s3.amazonaws.com/9/56/4/1242/analysis-of-recent-mass-shootings.pdf

 

[Geaux4it]

Why was his criminal record overlooked?

This sounds like there was a lot of security. Still didn't make much of a difference. Do you really think we will ever have more security at schools and theaters?

Chris Kyle and friend were gunned down at a shooting range and the shooter got away.

Innocent people died today. Why don't you stop your idiot political rant until the facts are out at least.

Fuck off you HYPERPARTISAN ****.
2 people is not a mass shooting.

You retarded pile of liberal shit.

Gun free zones are the facts.

You are a liberal shit stain.
Go away.
You make decent human beings sick.
Vile, savage scum!!

2 people still dead. That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.

But the statistics are in favor or law abiding gun owners. This is just another outlier

-Geaux

 

[Vox]

2 people still dead. That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.

2 people is better than 12, 20, 50!!!
Gun free zones empower criminals.
Hence mass killings ALWAYS happen in GUN FREE ZONES!!!!

Armed citizens PREVENT the death of innocents.
Hence NO mass shootings on shooting ranges.

You retarded shit eating douche nozzle!!

There have been mass shootings with concealed carry people there. Unfortunately you can't always tell who the good and bad guys are. Here is a quote from the Tucson shooting:
"Zamudio later stated that he initially mistook the identity of the shooter and had considered drawing his weapon before realizing that individual was not the shooter."
Clearly the location of the Tucson shooting was not a gun free zone. Shootings happen everywhere. Military bases and shooting ranges.

a LIE. mass shootings do not happen at shooting ranges.

himicide involving people who know or are related to each other can happen. but those happen anywhere, and most often in you very home.

 

[Brain357]

Fuck off you HYPERPARTISAN ****.
2 people is not a mass shooting.

You retarded pile of liberal shit.

Gun free zones are the facts.

You are a liberal shit stain.
Go away.
You make decent human beings sick.
Vile, savage scum!!

2 people still dead. That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.

it means you were lying substituting homicide for reasons which can be found in the relationships between those 3 and a mass random shooting of a psycho "to show them all"

Thankfully he stopped after 2. But nobody at the range stopped him. He just left. Why should I believe a range is some safe place?

 

[Geaux4it]

2 people still dead. That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.

it means you were lying substituting homicide for reasons which can be found in the relationships between those 3 and a mass random shooting of a psycho "to show them all"

Thankfully he stopped after 2. But nobody at the range stopped him. He just left. Why should I believe a range is some safe place?

Statistically, America is safer than many other countries when it comes to firearm homicides

-Geaux

 

[Vox]

2 people still dead. That means nothing to you eh?

Again this place had a lot of security and it didn't matter.

I'm glad you enjoy innocent people dying.

2 people is better than 12, 20, 50!!!
Gun free zones empower criminals.
Hence mass killings ALWAYS happen in GUN FREE ZONES!!!!

Armed citizens PREVENT the death of innocents.
Hence NO mass shootings on shooting ranges.

You retarded shit eating douche nozzle!!

Damn are you stupid, you can parrot the right wing propaganda like toucan sam!

Now for the facts, only 23% of mass shootings happen in gun free zones.

http://libcloud.s3.amazonaws.com/9/56/4/1242/analysis-of-recent-mass-shootings.pdf

Bloombergs site

you are ridiculous.

that is a LIE.

mass shootings of the last years all happened in the gun-free zones, all, except giffords