Gunny's Thread on Religion

[Ceasaro]

Why, for what reason do I have to like them or anyone? So if I don't love absolutely everyone in the world I'm an ignorant bigot?

 

[Kalam]

I'm not the one practicing gheebah.

Me neither. My opinions are out in the open for anybody to read. I will - and have - said the same things to Wahhabis that I say about them here.

So what would you call it?I guess it would technicality be called" buhtaan".

That would imply that my criticisms are untrue. They are deeply rooted in fact.

 

[Ceasaro]

Me neither. My opinions are out in the open for anybody to read. I will - and have - said the same things to Wahhabis that I say about them here.

So what would you call it?I guess it would technicality be called" buhtaan".

That would imply that my criticisms are untrue. They are deeply rooted in fact.

Deeply rooted in the fact that you're a fake muslim who knows shit about islam.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Me neither. My opinions are out in the open for anybody to read. I will - and have - said the same things to Wahhabis that I say about them here.

So what would you call it?I guess it would technicality be called" buhtaan".

That would imply that my criticisms are untrue. They are deeply rooted in fact.

I would say that your criticism are fitnah.

snip
Ibn al-A’raabi summed up the meanings of fitnah when he said: “Fitnah means testing, fitnah means trial, fitnah means wealth, fitnah means children, fitnah means kufr, fitnah means differences of opinion among people, fitnah means burning with fire.” (Lisaan al-‘Arab by Ibn Manzoor).

Islam Question and Answer - Meanings of the word fitnah in the Qur’aan

 

[Kalam]

I would say that your criticism are fitnah.

Improper application of the word. My criticisms are responses to the fitnah brought about by Wahhabism.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I would say that your criticism are fitnah.

Improper application of the word. My criticisms are responses to the fitnah brought about by Wahhabism.

You would still be wrong to do so. Condemnation is not warranted since they have scripture to base their opinions on.
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Making Peace between Disputing Muslims

Allah commands making peace between Muslims that fight each other,

[وَإِن طَآئِفَتَانِ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اقْتَتَلُواْ فَأَصْلِحُواْ بَيْنَهُمَا]

(And if two parties among the believers fall to fighting, then make peace between them both.) Therefore, Allah calls both opposing groups among Muslims, believers, although they are fighting each other. Al-Bukhari and other scholars relied on this Hadith as evidence that committing a sin does not nullify faith, no matter how major the sin is. This creed contradicts the creed of the Khawarij sect and those who accepted their idea, such as the Mu`tazilah sect. Al-Bukhari narrated that Al-Hasan said that Abu Bakrah said that the Messenger of Allah gave a speech on the Minbar while Al-Hasan bin `Ali was with him. He was repeatedly looking at Al-Hasan and then at the people; then said,

«إِنَّ ابْنِي هذَا سَيِّدٌ وَلَعَلَّ اللهَ تَعَالَى أَنْ يُصْلِحَ بِهِ بَيْنَ فِئَتَيْنِ عَظِيمَتَيْنِ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِين»

(Verily, this son of mine is a Sayyid (chief or master), and may Allah make peace between two great groups of Muslims through him.) What the Prophet said, occurred. Al-Hasan brought peace between the people of Ash-Sham and `Iraq, after they fought tremendous wars and frightening battles. Allah's statement,

[فَإِن بَغَتْ إِحْدَاهُمَا عَلَى الأُخْرَى فَقَـتِلُواْ الَّتِى تَبْغِى حَتَّى تَفِىءَ إِلَى أَمْرِ اللَّهِ]

(But if one of them outrages against the other, then fight you (all) against the one that which outrages till it complies with the command of Allah.) means, until the rebellious group refers to the commands of Allah and His Messenger for judgement and they listen to and obey the truth. There is a Hadith in the Sahih in which Anas states that the Messenger of Allah said,

«انْصُرْ أَخَاكَ ظَالِمًا أَوْ مَظْلُومًا»

(Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is oppressed.) "I asked, `O Allah's Messenger! It is right that I help him if he is oppressed, but how should I help him if he is an oppressor' He said,

«تَمْنَعُهُ مِنَ الظُّلْمِ فَذَاكَ نَصْرُكَ إِيَّاه»

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[Grigorio]

I would say that your criticism are fitnah.

Improper application of the word. My criticisms are responses to the fitnah brought about by Wahhabism.

You would still be wrong to do so. Condemnation is not warranted since they have scripture to base their opinions on.
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

One is not allowed to criticize a criticizer if they disagree with the interpretation and/or application of scripture?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

33:36.
It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Improper application of the word. My criticisms are responses to the fitnah brought about by Wahhabism.

You would still be wrong to do so. Condemnation is not warranted since they have scripture to base their opinions on.
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

One is not allowed to criticize a criticizer if they disagree with the interpretation and/or application of scripture?

Snip

(The worst criminal among the Muslims is he who asks if a matter is unlawful (or not), and it becomes unlawful because of his asking about it.) It is recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah said,

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[Grigorio]

33:36.
It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.

Doesn't that make the very commentaries you cite invalid, since they are opinions on the word of Allah given to his prophet? In fact.. I'm pretty sure that would include you...

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

33:36.
It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.

Doesn't that make the very commentaries you cite invalid, since they are opinions on the word of Allah given to his prophet? In fact.. I'm pretty sure that would include you...

Not sure Im following you Can I get some clarification?

 

[Grigorio]

Basically, the words you cited can be translated as 'stfu, Mr Fitnah, for it is not your place to question or opine'

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Basically, the words you cited can be translated as 'stfu, Mr Fitnah, for it is not your place to question or opine'

I report, I dont opine.
The scripture speaks for itself.

 

[Grigorio]

Basically, the words you cited can be translated as 'stfu, Mr Fitnah, for it is not your place to question or opine'

I report, I dont opine.
The scripture speaks for itself.

In your opinion it speaks for itself and your interpretation is but an opinion, regardless of how many agree with you, until you present the words of the original speaker/writer in support of its meaning. Even then, it is your opinion that he is being honest regarding his intent.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Basically, the words you cited can be translated as 'stfu, Mr Fitnah, for it is not your place to question or opine'

I report, I dont opine.
The scripture speaks for itself.

In your opinion it speaks for itself and your interpretation is but an opinion, regardless of how many agree with you, until you present the words of the original speaker/writer in support of its meaning. Even then, it is your opinion that he is being honest regarding his intent.

Im sorry Im not going to circle the drain with your pointless postulatism, you go there alone.
.Scholars are recognized for their ability to contextualize the fundamental documentys that make up islamic fiqh.

The recognized scholars are world renown for they knowledge of the Quran and sunna. Their collective works are essential reading for understanding the Quran.

 

[Grigorio]

.Scholars are recognized for their ability to contextualize the fundamental documentys that make up islamic fiqh.

Recognized by whom?

Are you calling yourself a scholar?

The recognized scholars are world renown for they knowledge of the Quran and sunna. Their collective works are essential reading for understanding the Quran.

You're incapable of understanding it with your own limited intelligence, or it's too convoluted and contradictory toi decipher without the proper dogma?

 

[Ceasaro]

Did I miss something or is this thread title: Gunny's thread about dog shit eating fake muslims arguing?

 

[The Illusion]

Religion is an anti intellectual way of making a reason for living. Religion involves itself in many ways that it shouldnt. Take morals for example. A lot of people base their morality on religion when really, thats just an excuse. They should be taking their morality from themselves..whether something is right or wrong. No religion should have to tell someone if something is right or wrong.. it should be that way regardless of religion.

Religion plays a good part in the lives of some people to keep them on track. Again, its used as an excuse (not in a bad way) to act properly towards other people and giving to society.

Jamie

 

[Grigorio]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G-UajSDW_E]YouTube - The non morality of theism[/ame]