Gunny's Thread on Religion

[Care4all]

it was not 6-7000 years of our time....the earth and our galaxy IS 4.5 BILLION years old White lion

Time taken does not matter to me, but the sequence of events are the same, so far in both Science and the Bible....and no I have not forgotten about God Breathing life in to Adam once he was formed.

How do you take that....? That God gave us our spirit once we were formed or soul once we were formed? He did form us first from the dust of the earth, before he breathed this life in to us....

So, all the other creatures of the earth, where it does not say "he breathed life in to them", does that make them any less alive today or keep them from their life?

I believe that when God Breathed life in to Adam, it was spiritual....the kind of life that God has....unseen, but there....so I do not let that statement get in the way of evolution...the evolving of all creatures over time....this was the smartest thing God did, creating us so that everything living could evolve and adapt to the environment....or fall.

Anyway, I am not here to argue what you believe is wrong....though I believe to a degree, it is wrong.

only because I don't believe you guys give God enough Credit when he used the progression on Earth and the evolution of life as his means that accomplished Genesis 1, as was writen.

Genesis 1 was never meant to be a Science book with the hows and whys....

For goodness sakes it is one page of passages that describe the entire progression of our galaxy and life itself...it is the SHORTEST OF SHORT STORIES that ever existed, giving us a very brief view of the succession of creation for us...even less information than a history lesson would give on any given subject....it gave us the "gist" of the things that took place before us....that's it....all the rest is Faith.

but often times in the Bible, it has stated the way we know if the Bible is true, is to see if what it says or prophesies is true, to test it...if it comes true or is true, then this is proof that it is the Word of God....there should be NO FEAR in putting up the Word of God, to Science....we should have no fear to test what is true in the Bible....at least not from my readings of it...it is more like God wants us to test his word, so to weed out the false prophets and false doctrine.

 

[JBeukema]

WL, L4U, and Care really need to educate themselves on the matter they're discussing

 

[WhiteLion]

it was not 6-7000 years of our time....the earth and our galaxy IS 4.5 BILLION years old White lion

Time taken does not matter to me, but the sequence of events are the same, so far in both Science and the Bible....and no I have not forgotten about God Breathing life in to Adam once he was formed.

How do you take that....? That God gave us our spirit once we were formed or soul once we were formed? He did form us first from the dust of the earth, before he breathed this life in to us....

So, all the other creatures of the earth, where it does not say "he breathed life in to them", does that make them any less alive today or keep them from their life?

I believe that when God Breathed life in to Adam, it was spiritual....the kind of life that God has....unseen, but there....so I do not let that statement get in the way of evolution...the evolving of all creatures over time....this was the smartest thing God did, creating us so that everything living could evolve and adapt to the environment....or fall.

Anyway, I am not here to argue what you believe is wrong....though I believe to a degree, it is wrong.

only because I don't believe you guys give God enough Credit when he used the progression on Earth and the evolution of life as his means that accomplished Genesis 1, as was writen.

Genesis 1 was never meant to be a Science book with the hows and whys....

For goodness sakes it is one page of passages that describe the entire progression of our galaxy and life itself...it is the SHORTEST OF SHORT STORIES that ever existed, giving us a very brief view of the succession of creation for us...even less information than a history lesson would give on any given subject....it gave us the "gist" of the things that took place before us....that's it....all the rest is Faith.

but often times in the Bible, it has stated the way we know if the Bible is true, is to see if what it says or prophesies is true, to test it...if it comes true or is true, then this is proof that it is the Word of God....there should be NO FEAR in putting up the Word of God, to Science....we should have no fear to test what is true in the Bible....at least not from my readings of it...it is more like God wants us to test his word, so to weed out the false prophets and false doctrine.

I dont discount that the earth is billions of years old, What i was doing was giving you one type of example of how GOD looks at time, not how we precieve it or that the earth was that old, and i didnt say that was a fact hola cows and flat earths? Also i was saying that according to the scripture i laid beforeth you that the earth couldve been created in 6-7000 years not that the total age of earth was 6-7000 years old sheeze for all we know the earth could be billions of years old, Genesis does say that before GOD started his creation quest that the earth was void and without form(possibly a rock floatin around in space for trillions of years)????

2 Peter 3:8 - But do not let this one {fact} escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. So its a very possible theory that GOD couldve spent 6-7000 year in just the habitational creation phase???

 

[WhiteLion]

I wonder how Socrates wouldve applied the "Socratic Method" to some on these forums =)

He would've been banned. Whenever I apply it, people get pissed as soon as I point out the contradictions

The bible is a racist rehash of the Sumerian records

lol you wish, Sumerians were in existance long before, Moses parted the Red Sea, Moses and Major prophets were responsible for the first writtings and canonizations of the first 4-5 books of the Torah which are almost identical to the Old Testament that we know of to this day. These books were stories passed down from generation to generation of ancient Hebrew familys, not some kinda barrowed 2 horse society out of Iraq(Sumerians) . Standing back and looking at the over all picture it was really all about(Christ Lineage from Adam to King David to Jesus the Christ) If the truth be known it takes a racist to know one.. know one???

And there were no real contradictions with Socrates with the exception of his padawans Aristotle and Plato which often times misquoted him, Socrates was no fool he believed in GOD(the GOD of Abraham, Issac and Jacob(or Isreal))

It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.
George Washington
This's why broadly our nation is going under in every avenue, if we keep on the same path we'll be in a worse state than some the 3rd world nations abroad(oh when we totally collapse CHina will tooooo). From the time of the Revolutionary war until WWII the USA enjoyed unprecedented protection from terrorist and invasion, but when we slapped HIM in the face in the late 1950s and 60's we've been steadly open to all sorts of attacks(numerous times during the Carter/Clintonian era), samething happened to Isreal and they ant been right since...

 

[Care4all]

it was not 6-7000 years of our time....the earth and our galaxy IS 4.5 BILLION years old White lion

Time taken does not matter to me, but the sequence of events are the same, so far in both Science and the Bible....and no I have not forgotten about God Breathing life in to Adam once he was formed.

How do you take that....? That God gave us our spirit once we were formed or soul once we were formed? He did form us first from the dust of the earth, before he breathed this life in to us....

So, all the other creatures of the earth, where it does not say "he breathed life in to them", does that make them any less alive today or keep them from their life?

I believe that when God Breathed life in to Adam, it was spiritual....the kind of life that God has....unseen, but there....so I do not let that statement get in the way of evolution...the evolving of all creatures over time....this was the smartest thing God did, creating us so that everything living could evolve and adapt to the environment....or fall.

Anyway, I am not here to argue what you believe is wrong....though I believe to a degree, it is wrong.

only because I don't believe you guys give God enough Credit when he used the progression on Earth and the evolution of life as his means that accomplished Genesis 1, as was writen.

Genesis 1 was never meant to be a Science book with the hows and whys....

For goodness sakes it is one page of passages that describe the entire progression of our galaxy and life itself...it is the SHORTEST OF SHORT STORIES that ever existed, giving us a very brief view of the succession of creation for us...even less information than a history lesson would give on any given subject....it gave us the "gist" of the things that took place before us....that's it....all the rest is Faith.

but often times in the Bible, it has stated the way we know if the Bible is true, is to see if what it says or prophesies is true, to test it...if it comes true or is true, then this is proof that it is the Word of God....there should be NO FEAR in putting up the Word of God, to Science....we should have no fear to test what is true in the Bible....at least not from my readings of it...it is more like God wants us to test his word, so to weed out the false prophets and false doctrine.

I dont discount that the earth is billions of years old, What i was doing was giving you one type of example of how GOD looks at time, not how we precieve it or that the earth was that old, and i didnt say that was a fact hola cows and flat earths? Also i was saying that according to the scripture i laid beforeth you that the earth couldve been created in 6-7000 years not that the total age of earth was 6-7000 years old sheeze for all we know the earth could be billions of years old, Genesis does say that before GOD started his creation quest that the earth was void and without form(possibly a rock floatin around in space for trillions of years)????

2 Peter 3:8 - But do not let this one {fact} escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. So its a very possible theory that GOD couldve spent 6-7000 year in just the habitational creation phase???

yes, thank you...the passage in 2 peter definitely tells us that what we think of as time is not His time!

well, science is figuring some things out, in our human terms...or at least coming up with some pretty darn good guesses that have a lot to back them up.

I just don't fear sciences hypothesis or theories, or disregard them...because i do not in any way believe that they will ever prove that God doesn't exist, only that He does...and if Science is the ''test'' that the Bible is put under, IT WILL WITHSTAND IT! I have Faith in such!

care

 

[JBeukema]

1) 'moses' never existed. Several distinct authors wrote the 'Moseanic texts'

2) Every story in your ~4000-year-old fairy tale comes from older tales, including Sumeraian myths from ~2000 years before your collection was pieced together

3)Two-Horse society? Sumer was among the first to have cities, has a bicameral 'congress', had the wheel and plow, and one of the two oldest writing systems known to have existed. All while what would become the Jews were wondering around like a bunch of fucking gypsies.

The Sumerians based their number system on 10, but they multiplied 10 by 6 to get the next unit. They multiplied 60 by 10, then multiplied 600 by 6, and so on. (The number 60 has the advantage of being divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, and 30.) The Sumerians also divided the circle into 360 degrees. From these early people came the word dozen (a fifth of 60) and the division of the clock to measure hours, minutes, and seconds. The Sumerians had standard measures, with units of length, area, and capacity. Their standard weight was the mina, made up of 60 shekels--about the same weight as a pound. There was no coined money. Standard weights of silver served as measures of value and as a means of exchange....


The longest story is the Gilgamesh epic, one of the outstanding works of ancient literature. The superhero Gilgamesh originally appeared in Sumerian mythology as a legendary king of Uruk. A long Babylonian poem includes an account of his journey to the bottom of the sea to obtain the plant of life. As he stopped to bathe at a spring on the way home, a hungry snake snatched the plant. When Gilgamesh saw the creature cast off its old skin to become young again, it seemed to him a sign that old age was the fate of humans.
Another searcher for eternal life was Adapa, a fisherman who gained wisdom from Ea, the god of water. The other gods were jealous of his knowledge and called him to heaven. Ea warned him not to drink or eat while there. Anu offered him the water of life and the bread of life because he thought that, since Adapa already knew too much, he might as well be a god. Adapa, however, refused and went back to Earth to die, thus losing for himself and for mankind the gift of immortal life. These legends somewhat resemble the Bible story of Adam and Eve. It is highly probable, in fact, that the ancient legends and myths of Mesopotamia supplied material that was reworked by the biblical authors
It was during the Sumerian era that a great flood overwhelmed Mesopotamia. So great was this flood that stories about it worked their way into several ancient literatures. The Sumerian counterpart of Noah was Ziusudra, and from him was developed the Babylonian figure Utnapishtim, whose story of the flood was related in the 'Epic of Gilgamesh'. Immortal after his escape from the flood, Utnapishtim was also the wise man who told Gilgamesh where to find the youth-restoring plant.

Sumerian Culture

Sumer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JBeukema]

I just don't fear sciences hypothesis or theories, or disregard them...because i do not in any way believe that they will ever prove that God doesn't exist, only that He does...and if Science is the ''test'' that the Bible is put under, IT WILL WITHSTAND IT! I have Faith in such!

care

In the case of your god, it's already been proven. Your god rests along with Pluto, Sol, and the gods of Olympus

Your bible can't withstand any test, including its own. No two gospels agree and many of the 'prophesies' yeshua is said to have fulfilled don't exist in the Torah

 

[logical4u]

Macro evolution is not a science. There is no proof that species morfed into another species. It is a belief. (There is proof of micro-evolution or selective breeding)
If schools are teaching people where they came from, what right do they have to teach liberal "science" (a belief) over what was taught in the Bible: a Being that has power over the entire universe created all life as we know it (also a belief)?

I agree, science is not the enemy,

see above post for this

If man was formed out of another animal through evolution, such as an ape, like Neanderthal man, and then on to us....I have no problem with such and do not believe the Bible and something like such, could not coexist. If all else in genesis came to pass, as Science has proven, then man being formed out of the dust of the earth, and evolving in to man, does not conflict either, it simply is the will of God, coming in to fruition.

Why I say this is that I see the formation of the earth and life on it as something not of happenstance, and as what the Bible says, God is who did this...including allowing evolution or what we labeled evolution over time, as merely the work of God stated in the simplest of terms in Genesis 1

Ok, now let me tell you about another hypothesis of mine on this....based on the evidence shown us so far, that we did not evolve or morph from apes and there is no missing link that will ever be found. this is still opened for science to prove or disprove in my opinion....

but NOTE, this would REFUTE the Bible part that tells us we were made from the DUST OF THE EARTH, and I am probably wrong on this and the Bible and Science is right.

Though it could be that Adam and Eve, before they ate the apple from the tree of knowledge and Evil were "neanderthal man"... and Homo Sapiens are the proverbial Adam and Eve, AFTER gaining knowledge....

we do know that neanderthal and others had a much smaller brain cavity than modern man...modern man also began agriculture, which the Bible also STATES is what happened when adam and eve were kicked out of the garden... [/B]
Footnotes:

1. Genesis 1:2 Or possibly became
2. Genesis 1:26 Hebrew; Syriac all the wild animals

So, I still do NOT agree for Creationism to be taught along science because the Bible was never meant to be a Science.

And I believe the arrogance of man, the religious man, who shoots down evolution completely because they have NOT ALLOWED themselves to think in bigger terms than themselves, and realize that Evolution IS WHAT GOD TOLD US HAPPENED in the Bible...

He succinctly told us the evolution of the earth and life on it....Genesis 1 was not one passage/paragraph encompassing with the twinkling of an eye all things that came to pass, as one single moment and then, wa la! we were here!

God passed this knowledge on to people 5000 years ago, that were clueless on what we know today with our technology, yet these people wrote down what they understood being told them, and it turns out that Science NOW is proving the succession and events of Genesis 1 is the precise way it happened, is beyond amazement, to me!

Care

Question: Did you prove macro-evolution (the changing of species)?

Question 2: If you were doing a science experiment on movement, would it be acceptable to say "it just started moving"?....Wouldn't you have to document the catalyst for changes or movement that was measured or caused other changes?

Example: if you dropped something, would you measure the distance it traveled, note that gravity was the accelerator, and that the floor stopped it? Evolution is like a science experiment that says, we know there was nothing and then there was something. We believe an explosion happened because things are moving. We know that there was no life, and then there was. Life just happened and then one-celled animals just "became" all the other life forms we see around us. It just happened. It is like doing an experiment about falling and not mentioning gravity. Your teacher would give you an "F".

G*d is the catalyst. To not mention Him, is to have an incomplete theory.

 

[Care4all]

So, I still do NOT agree for Creationism to be taught along science because the Bible was never meant to be a Science.

And I believe the arrogance of man, the religious man, who shoots down evolution completely because they have NOT ALLOWED themselves to think in bigger terms than themselves, and realize that Evolution IS WHAT GOD TOLD US HAPPENED in the Bible...

He succinctly told us the evolution of the earth and life on it....Genesis 1 was not one passage/paragraph encompassing with the twinkling of an eye all things that came to pass, as one single moment and then, wa la! we were here!

God passed this knowledge on to people 5000 years ago, that were clueless on what we know today with our technology, yet these people wrote down what they understood being told them, and it turns out that Science NOW is proving the succession and events of Genesis 1 is the precise way it happened, is beyond amazement, to me!

Care

Question: Did you prove macro-evolution (the changing of species)?

Question 2: If you were doing a science experiment on movement, would it be acceptable to say "it just started moving"?....Wouldn't you have to document the catalyst for changes or movement that was measured or caused other changes?

Example: if you dropped something, would you measure the distance it traveled, note that gravity was the accelerator, and that the floor stopped it? Evolution is like a science experiment that says, we know there was nothing and then there was something. We believe an explosion happened because things are moving. We know that there was no life, and then there was. Life just happened and then one-celled animals just "became" all the other life forms we see around us. It just happened. It is like doing an experiment about falling and not mentioning gravity. Your teacher would give you an "F".

G*d is the catalyst. To not mention Him, is to have an incomplete theory.

And other than the Bible telling us such and faith and what seems logical, how do you know this?

IF you allow science to proceed, the truth will be shown....no matter how they may want to leave God out of it at all costs, God will prevail and Science will not be able to deny Him, quite the opposite, it will prove Him!

HAVE FAITH IN SUCH! That's just how I look at it! ALL will be Revealed, there will be a Revealing, a Revelation.

care

oh and no, i don't believe there is evidence of us morphing from apes.

 

[Zona]

As long as this is not about mormons, I am in.

 

[JBeukema]

Evolution is like a science experiment that says, we know there was nothing and then there was something. We believe an explosion happened because things are moving. We know that there was no life, and then there was. Life just happened and then one-celled animals just "became" all the other life forms we see around us. It just happened. It is like doing an experiment about falling and not mentioning gravity. Your teacher would give you an "F".

YOu just showed your true colors, Hovindite

 

[JBeukema]

So l4U thinks evolutions is cosmology and Care's as stupid as ever...

 

[WhiteLion]

1) 'moses' never existed. Several distinct authors wrote the 'Moseanic texts'

2) Every story in your ~4000-year-old fairy tale comes from older tales, including Sumeraian myths from ~2000 years before your collection was pieced together

3)Two-Horse society? Sumer was among the first to have cities, has a bicameral 'congress', had the wheel and plow, and one of the two oldest writing systems known to have existed. All while what would become the Jews were wondering around like a bunch of fucking gypsies.

The Sumerians based their number system on 10, but they multiplied 10 by 6 to get the next unit. They multiplied 60 by 10, then multiplied 600 by 6, and so on. (The number 60 has the advantage of being divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, and 30.) The Sumerians also divided the circle into 360 degrees. From these early people came the word dozen (a fifth of 60) and the division of the clock to measure hours, minutes, and seconds. The Sumerians had standard measures, with units of length, area, and capacity. Their standard weight was the mina, made up of 60 shekels--about the same weight as a pound. There was no coined money. Standard weights of silver served as measures of value and as a means of exchange....


The longest story is the Gilgamesh epic, one of the outstanding works of ancient literature. The superhero Gilgamesh originally appeared in Sumerian mythology as a legendary king of Uruk. A long Babylonian poem includes an account of his journey to the bottom of the sea to obtain the plant of life. As he stopped to bathe at a spring on the way home, a hungry snake snatched the plant. When Gilgamesh saw the creature cast off its old skin to become young again, it seemed to him a sign that old age was the fate of humans.
Another searcher for eternal life was Adapa, a fisherman who gained wisdom from Ea, the god of water. The other gods were jealous of his knowledge and called him to heaven. Ea warned him not to drink or eat while there. Anu offered him the water of life and the bread of life because he thought that, since Adapa already knew too much, he might as well be a god. Adapa, however, refused and went back to Earth to die, thus losing for himself and for mankind the gift of immortal life. These legends somewhat resemble the Bible story of Adam and Eve. It is highly probable, in fact, that the ancient legends and myths of Mesopotamia supplied material that was reworked by the biblical authors
It was during the Sumerian era that a great flood overwhelmed Mesopotamia. So great was this flood that stories about it worked their way into several ancient literatures. The Sumerian counterpart of Noah was Ziusudra, and from him was developed the Babylonian figure Utnapishtim, whose story of the flood was related in the 'Epic of Gilgamesh'. Immortal after his escape from the flood, Utnapishtim was also the wise man who told Gilgamesh where to find the youth-restoring plant.

Sumerian Culture

Sumer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People post these long strung out observations of quotes from än-tē'-khrē-stos types, that carry no more weight than a nasty ole blow fly and amount to the same.
Of coarse thats your version of it and your entitled to it, sooooo have fun with it?

 

[WhiteLion]

So, I still do NOT agree for Creationism to be taught along science because the Bible was never meant to be a Science.

And I believe the arrogance of man, the religious man, who shoots down evolution completely because they have NOT ALLOWED themselves to think in bigger terms than themselves, and realize that Evolution IS WHAT GOD TOLD US HAPPENED in the Bible...

He succinctly told us the evolution of the earth and life on it....Genesis 1 was not one passage/paragraph encompassing with the twinkling of an eye all things that came to pass, as one single moment and then, wa la! we were here!

God passed this knowledge on to people 5000 years ago, that were clueless on what we know today with our technology, yet these people wrote down what they understood being told them, and it turns out that Science NOW is proving the succession and events of Genesis 1 is the precise way it happened, is beyond amazement, to me!

Care

Question: Did you prove macro-evolution (the changing of species)?

Question 2: If you were doing a science experiment on movement, would it be acceptable to say "it just started moving"?....Wouldn't you have to document the catalyst for changes or movement that was measured or caused other changes?

Example: if you dropped something, would you measure the distance it traveled, note that gravity was the accelerator, and that the floor stopped it? Evolution is like a science experiment that says, we know there was nothing and then there was something. We believe an explosion happened because things are moving. We know that there was no life, and then there was. Life just happened and then one-celled animals just "became" all the other life forms we see around us. It just happened. It is like doing an experiment about falling and not mentioning gravity. Your teacher would give you an "F".

G*d is the catalyst. To not mention Him, is to have an incomplete theory.

 

[JBeukema]

The evidence has been cited proving you a dishonest retard nd you clap your hands lie a fool

 

[WhiteLion]

The evidence has been cited proving you a dishonest retard nd you clap your hands lie a fool

Your a humanist nutjob, why dont you just go take your meds and go to bed? cause all your foul garbage you call proof dont amount to a rats turd in my eyes, nobody here cares nor takes you serious, at least not the sane ones so nighty night . lol im surprised i entertained you this long.. but no more your a post hangout loser and im thru with you...Fool?

 

[JBeukema]

A Nutjob? You buy into talking snakes, genocides, and incest as the foundation of your religion and you call me a nutjob? lol. That's rich.

If you wish to call me a fool, do learn English first.

Is it any wonder I refer to you people as retards? Every time your kinds speaks it reveals yet more evidence that your religion is based on mental retardation and fear.

 

[Gunny]

I just don't fear sciences hypothesis or theories, or disregard them...because i do not in any way believe that they will ever prove that God doesn't exist, only that He does...and if Science is the ''test'' that the Bible is put under, IT WILL WITHSTAND IT! I have Faith in such!

care

In the case of your god, it's already been proven. Your god rests along with Pluto, Sol, and the gods of Olympus

Your bible can't withstand any test, including its own. No two gospels agree and many of the 'prophesies' yeshua is said to have fulfilled don't exist in the Torah

NOTHING has been proven except you are as extreme in YOUR beliefs as ANY religious crackpot.

There's just no difference between the two of you.

 

[Gunny]

So l4U thinks evolutions is cosmology and Care's as stupid as ever...

Calling care stupid is a foul of the FIRST magnitude. YOU are the one that is stupid, jb. Get over your hating self, huh?

 

[DamnYankee]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1284876-post1.html

I'm giving fair warning straight - up. Any flames, insults or derailments will be deleted and/or moved. Call it what you want, but there you have it. I'm sick and tired of zealots destroying religious threads so no one else can even have a discussion.

Anyone who has a problem with that, tough.

Okay, discuss ....

Been a long thread, huh?