Gunny's Thread on Religion

[Yukon]

Mr Fitnah,

What are your thought on Jew people ????

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Bump.

Giving rise to the question: Is it possible to bump a sticky???

Indeed!

 

[JenT]

Mr. Fitnah are you Muslim by chance?

No

I have this tattooed on my wrist, it is abarbic for kafir/kaafir
Islam Question and Answer - Â*Muslim attitudes towards violence and how to react to kaafir aggression against the Muslim community
I am hostile to Islam.

Wow.

I'm going to assume that those kind of deep feelings that would lead you to tattoo a permanant reminder were not developed from reading propaganda material but from actual life experience? And if so, how do you know that your experience is of Islam and not culture?
I'm not Muslim but I have many friends who are. I'm sure it's easy for you to find ridiculous sounding fatwas and hadiths, because as I said, culture trumps religion. But really it's like studying Christianity from the KKK. Who, by the way, are perfectly convinced that they are true Christians and living a Christian lifestyle.
You can find more violent passages in the Bible then in the Quran. So why dislike Islam more then Christianity?

Just trying to understand.

In the Bible, God was specific about which nations to wipe out because God can see the outcome from letting those nations live (for instance when King Saul didn't wipe out every Amorite or Amalakite, it was an Amalakite that thrust the spear into him) God has also directed whole nations to be wiped out because their culture had gotten to the point of frying infants to idols. But in every case, God was specific. And since Christ came proclaiming the age of grace, offering Himself up to wipe out all sin to those who receive Him, well I haven't seen or heard of God ordering nations, I'm guessing it's because all from every land have an opportunity of grace.

But in the Quran and Sunnah, Mohammad said Islam is to dominate all nations and beheaded hundreds as an example. Submit or die. That's not something the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ever ordered, except for when Christ comes back He will rule. And when He does there won't be any question of His authority to do so.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's a good thing we don't all believe in the infallibility of the Bible. Thank goodness there is a variety of spiritual and religious experience, many paths that lead one to a true realization of the experience we call 'God' or pure being-essence nature.

And concepts of God are not God they are just concepts. What we label God is ineffable here and now experience. JMO

 

[John Lemmon]

The bible was first written so that muslims would have something to wipe their asses wth.

 

[Yukon]

Was the Prophet really a pedophile? He married a 6 year old child. Does that count?

 

[Kalam]

He married a 6 year old child.

Not exactly.

Her age was lowered in that report so that no questions would be raised about her virginity, and by extension, the legitimacy of Muhammad's offspring through her.

Source: "All of these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity. They also suggest the variability of Aisha's age in the historical record." - D. A. Spellberg, Politics, Gender, and the Islamic Past.​

In reality, she had been betrothed to Jubair Ibn al Mut'am, a pagan, before her engagement to Muhammad. Jubair eventually annulled their engagement. In at least two separate sources it is pointed out that Asma bint Abi Bakr, Aisha's half-sister, was 100 years old when she died in 73 AH. That would make Aisha 90 in 73 AH.

Source: "Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha." - Ibn Kathir, Al-bidayya wal-nihaya

"She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years." - Mishkat al-Masabih​

Aisha's marriage to Muhammad took place in the year of the Hijra, 1 AH or 622 AD. You do the math...

 

[logical4u]

I'm of course an apostate and an atheist, but I don't believe most secular individuals have an interest in interfering with the personal beliefs of the religious if they merely remained personal beliefs, just as most secular individuals don't have an interest in interfering with the beliefs of those who embrace astrology or other superstition not based on reason. It's because the beliefs of the religious exert an undue influence over mainstream society (we might still have a World Trade Center if not for religion) that objections are raised. As noted:

I've not encountered anyone who has an interest in attacking religious belief simply because they consider it irrational or baseless; many beliefs retain such elements. It's because religious belief has traditionally primarily adopted the role of the basis of an openly hierarchical institution (the Roman Catholic inquisition, excessively theocratic Islamic states today, etc.), or the basis of other negative influences that have the effect of causing intrusions into non-religious elements of life, as noted by the cartoon, that there is opposition.

Can you name a Christian church that is responsible for "negative influences" today? How is wanting the theory of evolution to be taught alongside the theory of intelligent design (creation) wrong? They are both theories that cannot be proven.
I am at a desk and the instructions for Life in the new milleninium from the Dalai Lama are posted. No one has a problem with that. He is a religious leader. His words are recognized as wisdom.
I could not do that with the ten Commandments. The Bible is full of wisdom. Many self-help books use biblical stories (or parts) to impart valueable life lessons. Yeshua's teachings are full of wisdom, not violence, not exclusion, but a welcoming to faith, hope and wisdom. Why is there such a problem with using those lessons to help people grow. What happens between you and G*d will be between you, no one knows that relationship, but you two.
A large portion ofthis country's colonists that eventually became citizens, came here to escape religious persecution. They would not believe today's Christians are being treated as second class citizens for wanting to bow their heads and give thanks to their Lord in public. It is a matter of FREEDOM.

 

[John Lemmon]

Kalam, so they faked aisha's virginity? Nice, god's messenger can't even find himself a virgin.

 

[Yukon]

Kalam,

Answer my question. Was the Prophet a pedophile?

 

[Care4all]

I'm of course an apostate and an atheist, but I don't believe most secular individuals have an interest in interfering with the personal beliefs of the religious if they merely remained personal beliefs, just as most secular individuals don't have an interest in interfering with the beliefs of those who embrace astrology or other superstition not based on reason. It's because the beliefs of the religious exert an undue influence over mainstream society (we might still have a World Trade Center if not for religion) that objections are raised. As noted:

I've not encountered anyone who has an interest in attacking religious belief simply because they consider it irrational or baseless; many beliefs retain such elements. It's because religious belief has traditionally primarily adopted the role of the basis of an openly hierarchical institution (the Roman Catholic inquisition, excessively theocratic Islamic states today, etc.), or the basis of other negative influences that have the effect of causing intrusions into non-religious elements of life, as noted by the cartoon, that there is opposition.

Can you name a Christian church that is responsible for "negative influences" today? How is wanting the theory of evolution to be taught alongside the theory of intelligent design (creation) wrong? They are both theories that cannot be proven.
I am at a desk and the instructions for Life in the new milleninium from the Dalai Lama are posted. No one has a problem with that. He is a religious leader. His words are recognized as wisdom.
I could not do that with the ten Commandments. The Bible is full of wisdom. Many self-help books use biblical stories (or parts) to impart valueable life lessons. Yeshua's teachings are full of wisdom, not violence, not exclusion, but a welcoming to faith, hope and wisdom. Why is there such a problem with using those lessons to help people grow. What happens between you and G*d will be between you, no one knows that relationship, but you two.
A large portion ofthis country's colonists that eventually became citizens, came here to escape religious persecution. They would not believe today's Christians are being treated as second class citizens for wanting to bow their heads and give thanks to their Lord in public. It is a matter of FREEDOM.

Intelligent design or Creationism is NOT a Science and THIS is why it does not belong side of the Theory of Evolution in a Science class. Simple as that....

And I happen to believe in God and that He is our Creator, but never in my life have I ever thought that this needs to be taught in school along side of Science...and YOU shouldn't either. Creationism is based on belief and Faith, NOT Science.... Science may prove this belief some day...but creationism can't prove itself, it is not meant to...

science is NOT the enemy, it is NOT a vs. situation and should NEVER be put on that level imo.



Care

 

[Kalam]

Kalam,

Answer my question. Was the Prophet a pedophile?

When the evidence regarding Aisha's age is considered, the answer has to be no. He (&#65018 did not seem to be sexually attracted to prepubescent girls.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I'm of course an apostate and an atheist, but I don't believe most secular individuals have an interest in interfering with the personal beliefs of the religious if they merely remained personal beliefs, just as most secular individuals don't have an interest in interfering with the beliefs of those who embrace astrology or other superstition not based on reason. It's because the beliefs of the religious exert an undue influence over mainstream society (we might still have a World Trade Center if not for religion) that objections are raised. As noted:

I've not encountered anyone who has an interest in attacking religious belief simply because they consider it irrational or baseless; many beliefs retain such elements. It's because religious belief has traditionally primarily adopted the role of the basis of an openly hierarchical institution (the Roman Catholic inquisition, excessively theocratic Islamic states today, etc.), or the basis of other negative influences that have the effect of causing intrusions into non-religious elements of life, as noted by the cartoon, that there is opposition.

Can you name a Christian church that is responsible for "negative influences" today? How is wanting the theory of evolution to be taught alongside the theory of intelligent design (creation) wrong? They are both theories that cannot be proven.
I am at a desk and the instructions for Life in the new milleninium from the Dalai Lama are posted. No one has a problem with that. He is a religious leader. His words are recognized as wisdom.
I could not do that with the ten Commandments. The Bible is full of wisdom. Many self-help books use biblical stories (or parts) to impart valueable life lessons. Yeshua's teachings are full of wisdom, not violence, not exclusion, but a welcoming to faith, hope and wisdom. Why is there such a problem with using those lessons to help people grow. What happens between you and G*d will be between you, no one knows that relationship, but you two.
A large portion ofthis country's colonists that eventually became citizens, came here to escape religious persecution. They would not believe today's Christians are being treated as second class citizens for wanting to bow their heads and give thanks to their Lord in public. It is a matter of FREEDOM.

Don't be an airhead.

The Puritans hung Quaker women for doing missionary work.

The Anglicans in Virginia took your kid away on the second complaint of not raising them Christian.

You will find all sorts of documented examples of that if you look.

The Pilgrims were right, along with Roger Williams and Thomas Jefferson -- keep Church and State separate.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Kalam,

Answer my question. Was the Prophet a pedophile?

When the evidence regarding Aisha's age is considered, the answer has to be no. He (&#65018 did not seem to be sexually attracted to prepubescent girls.

This story is reported by Ibn Ishac, the most authentic biographer of Muhammad. Most other biographies are based on this monumental work of Ibn Ishak/Ibn Hisham

(Suhayli, ii.79: In the riwaya of Yunus I.I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummu�l-Fadl) when she was baby crawling before him and said, �If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her.� But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. Abdu�l-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba�.(Ref.3, page 311)

 

[Kalam]

(Suhayli, ii.79: In the riwaya of Yunus I.I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummul-Fadl) when she was baby crawling before him and said, If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her. But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. Abdul-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba.(Ref.3, page 311)

Forget to read the whole passage, stumpy?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

(Suhayli, ii.79: In the riwaya of Yunus I.I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummul-Fadl) when she was baby crawling before him and said, If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her. But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. Abdul-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba.(Ref.3, page 311)

Forget to read the whole passage, stumpy?

The crawling baby got him hot.

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm of course an apostate and an atheist, but I don't believe most secular individuals have an interest in interfering with the personal beliefs of the religious if they merely remained personal beliefs, just as most secular individuals don't have an interest in interfering with the beliefs of those who embrace astrology or other superstition not based on reason. It's because the beliefs of the religious exert an undue influence over mainstream society (we might still have a World Trade Center if not for religion) that objections are raised. As noted:

I've not encountered anyone who has an interest in attacking religious belief simply because they consider it irrational or baseless; many beliefs retain such elements. It's because religious belief has traditionally primarily adopted the role of the basis of an openly hierarchical institution (the Roman Catholic inquisition, excessively theocratic Islamic states today, etc.), or the basis of other negative influences that have the effect of causing intrusions into non-religious elements of life, as noted by the cartoon, that there is opposition.

Can you name a Christian church that is responsible for "negative influences" today? How is wanting the theory of evolution to be taught alongside the theory of intelligent design (creation) wrong? They are both theories that cannot be proven.
I am at a desk and the instructions for Life in the new milleninium from the Dalai Lama are posted. No one has a problem with that. He is a religious leader. His words are recognized as wisdom.
I could not do that with the ten Commandments. The Bible is full of wisdom. Many self-help books use biblical stories (or parts) to impart valueable life lessons. Yeshua's teachings are full of wisdom, not violence, not exclusion, but a welcoming to faith, hope and wisdom. Why is there such a problem with using those lessons to help people grow. What happens between you and G*d will be between you, no one knows that relationship, but you two.
A large portion ofthis country's colonists that eventually became citizens, came here to escape religious persecution. They would not believe today's Christians are being treated as second class citizens for wanting to bow their heads and give thanks to their Lord in public. It is a matter of FREEDOM.

Don't be an airhead.

The Puritans hung Quaker women for doing missionary work.

The Anglicans in Virginia took your kid away on the second complaint of not raising them Christian.

You will find all sorts of documented examples of that if you look.

The Pilgrims were right, along with Roger Williams and Thomas Jefferson -- keep Church and State separate.

Er..the Pilgrims were Puritans, dumbass. They also hung "witches".

The Pilgrims didn't make this country. They just settled it.

 

[Kalam]

(Suhayli, ii.79: In the riwaya of Yunus I.I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummul-Fadl) when she was baby crawling before him and said, If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her. But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. Abdul-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba.(Ref.3, page 311)

Forget to read the whole passage, stumpy?

The crawling baby got him hot.

Which is clearly why he said he wanted to marry her when she grew up.

Take a look at the women Muhammad ﷺ married and you'll find that few, if any, were married because he was sexually attracted to them. More often than not, he married widows and other women that would have been considered part of the dregs of society had it not been for him.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Forget to read the whole passage, stumpy?

The crawling baby got him hot.

Which is clearly why he said he wanted to marry her when she grew up.

Sick, you just dont get it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Which explains why arranged marriages between 3 y.o.s is acceptable.

I dunno, I'm for it. I'm all for parents deciding who their kids marry.

After they're adults, of course.