Guns. I'm just throwing my point of view out there. If I'm wrong then explain it to me.

[Confounding]

I've always viewed the gun problem similarly to the way I view the drug problem. It's an unfortunate situation that is only made more unfortunate when you make the people that want to use these things criminals for doing so. Supply and demand exists regardless of what the law has to say about it. If the consumer wants something bad enough and is willing to pay the price, somebody is willing to break the law to make money from that demand. You will never stop the movement and sale of drugs and guns. All the law can decide is who will make money off that demand. It's either going to be legitimate businesses that employ people and pay taxes, or dangerous and unregulated black market dealers. It seems to me that the only intelligent thing to do is to not make these things illegal so we can at least maintain some control. That comes with its own set of issues to overcome, but I adamantly believe that it's a clear cut greater good kind of situation.

 

[Chuz Life]

I've always viewed the gun problem similarly to the way I view the drug problem. It's an unfortunate situation that is only made more unfortunate when you make the people that want to use these things criminals for doing so. Supply and demand exists regardless of what the law has to say about it. If the consumer wants something bad enough and is willing to pay the price, somebody is willing to break the law to make money from that demand. You will never stop the movement and sale of drugs and guns. All the law can decide is who will make money off that demand. It's either going to be legitimate businesses that employ people and pay taxes, or dangerous and unregulated black market dealers. It seems to me that the only intelligent thing to do is to not make these things illegal so we can at least maintain some control. That comes with its own set of issues to overcome, but I adamantly believe that it's a clear cut greater good kind of situation.

Seems totally fair and we'll reasoned to me.

Except, that you should consider incorporating the Constitutional aspect and the historical aspects into your reasoning as well.

 

[theHawk]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

The right to bear arms is a constitutional right, period.

The real problem is crime, and the people that commit violent crimes and "gun crimes". Most of the time they are repeat offenders, and people that have shown a history of violence. Our real problem is the "thug culture", and a justice system that lets them off the hook all too often and puts thugs right back on the streets. The solution is much stricter sentencing for violent crimes, we need to keep them locked up most of their adult lives. We need to build bigger prisons and keep them all locked up. We also need to keep mentally ill that have a tendency towards violence closely monitored and the dangerous ones in mental hospitals. Also crack down on illegal immigration since many gang bangers are illegals.

 

[bitter clinging swiftie]

one other thing you are forgetting is that a firearm is a very simple device....any jimmyearl with some metal, a bench lathe and 12 ton press and some know how, can manufacture a pretty decent quality firarm in his garage...google "khyber pass copy"

 

[Confounding]

Except, that you should consider incorporating the Constitutional aspect and the historical aspects into your reasoning as well.

The left has very little loyalty to the constitution as written. When you tell the left wing "but the constitution says..." I honestly believe most of them roll their eyes. I think most conservatives know that. That's why I made my argument elsewhere.

 

[BluesLegend]

Except, that you should consider incorporating the Constitutional aspect and the historical aspects into your reasoning as well.

The left has very little loyalty to the constitution as written. When you tell the left wing..."but the constitution says..." I honestly believe most of them roll their eyes. I think most conservatives know that. That's why I made my argument elsewhere.

The left hate the Constitution, it limits their ability to control people. Liberalism is so popular it has to be forced onto the people via threats, fines, and bans.

 

[Chuz Life]

Except, that you should consider incorporating the Constitutional aspect and the historical aspects into your reasoning as well.

The left has very little loyalty to the constitution as written. When you tell the left wing..."but the constitution says..." I honestly believe most of them roll their eyes. I think most conservatives know that. That's why I made my argument elsewhere.

The left may have no regard for the Constitution... in many cases, that's true. However, others read your post too.

 

[Pogo]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

Yeah there's no "gun problem". We don't have James Holmses and Jared Loughners and Adam Lanzas at all. These are all staged in New Mexico.

What a self-delusional asshole. We are a gun-OBSESSED nation. We're a culture of violence and death and with it paramiliary cops. It's on every TV, in every movie theater (sometimes even live) and in every other medium. But we have "no gun problem". What a dipshit.

You do have a point that it's not comparable to drugs. Nobody takes a bag of coke into a movie theater and overdoses a bunch of strangers. So there's that.

 

[oldsoul]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

The right to bear arms is a constitutional right, period.

The real problem is crime, and the people that commit violent crimes and "gun crimes". Most of the time they are repeat offenders, and people that have shown a history of violence. Our real problem is the "thug culture", and a justice system that lets them off the hook all too often and puts thugs right back on the streets. The solution is much stricter sentencing for violent crimes, we need to keep them locked up most of their adult lives. We need to build bigger prisons and keep them all locked up. We also need to keep mentally ill that have a tendency towards violence closely monitored and the dangerous ones in mental hospitals. Also crack down on illegal immigration since many gang bangers are illegals.

I think you are missing a HUGE part of the "problem" as well. And that is:

"Why are there so many turning to crime in the first place?"

Locking them up, will do nothing to solve that. It will only serve to put more people in jail. Figure out the "why" and solve that, the rest becomes much easier to manage, if not "solve" all together.

 

[Confounding]

You do have a point that it's not comparable to drugs.

It's comparable to drugs because in both situations it's completely ineffective to make them illegal for a very similar reason. It's not about how we feel about it, or what would be ideal. It's about what works and what is practical. It's about reality.

 

[oldsoul]

Except, that you should consider incorporating the Constitutional aspect and the historical aspects into your reasoning as well.

The left has very little loyalty to the constitution as written. When you tell the left wing..."but the constitution says..." I honestly believe most of them roll their eyes. I think most conservatives know that. That's why I made my argument elsewhere.

The left hate the Constitution, it limits their ability to control people. Liberalism is so popular it has to be forced onto the people via threats, fines, and bans.

More specifically it limits the POWER of the Government.

See, most, if not all, "liberals" look to Government to "fix" problems, while "conservatives" (the real ones) look to the INDIVIDUAL. That is part of the trouble with reconciling the differences between the two "sides".

 

[MikeK]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

The right to bear arms is a constitutional right, period.

[...]

You obviously do not live in New Jersey or some of the other Northern states that manifest brazen contempt for the Second Amendment.

 

[Pogo]

You do have a point that it's not comparable to drugs.

It's comparable to drugs because in both situations it's completely ineffective to make them illegal for a very similar reason. It's not about how we feel about it, or what would be ideal. It's about what works and what is practical. It's about reality.

You speak here of the futility of throwing laws at it. I agree with that, always have. The idiot I was responding to based his point on the self-delusion that "there is no gun problem". If that were the case we wouldn't have threads on it. So I illustrated his dishonesty.

 

[theHawk]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

The right to bear arms is a constitutional right, period.

The real problem is crime, and the people that commit violent crimes and "gun crimes". Most of the time they are repeat offenders, and people that have shown a history of violence. Our real problem is the "thug culture", and a justice system that lets them off the hook all too often and puts thugs right back on the streets. The solution is much stricter sentencing for violent crimes, we need to keep them locked up most of their adult lives. We need to build bigger prisons and keep them all locked up. We also need to keep mentally ill that have a tendency towards violence closely monitored and the dangerous ones in mental hospitals. Also crack down on illegal immigration since many gang bangers are illegals.

I think you are missing a HUGE part of the "problem" as well. And that is:

"Why are there so many turning to crime in the first place?"

Locking them up, will do nothing to solve that. It will only serve to put more people in jail. Figure out the "why" and solve that, the rest becomes much easier to manage, if not "solve" all together.

The majority of violent crime perps are blacks and Latinos. You may want to look there and ask them why they turn to crime. As I said the real problem is the "thug culture", which includes TV and music, etc. sensationalizing such violence. Some people may just be too dumb to separate fiction from real life.

But the answer is most definitely to increase prison sentences. Keeping thugs off the streets prevents them from committing more crime. We also need the death penalty for crimes like murder and rape standard.

 

[oldsoul]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

Yeah there's no "gun problem". We don't have James Holmses and Jared Loughners and Adam Lanzas at all. These are all staged in New Mexico.

What a self-delusional asshole. We are a gun-OBSESSED nation. We're a culture of violence and death and with it paramiliary cops. It's on every TV, in every movie theater (sometimes even live) and in every other medium. But we have "no gun problem". What a dipshit.

You do have a point that it's not comparable to drugs. Nobody takes a bag of coke into a movie theater and overdoses a bunch of strangers. So there's that.

No, there is not a "gun problem". There is a "violence problem" though. By that I mean that there is a growing trend of "numbness" towards violence, a "disassociation" from what one is doing, and how it affects, and effects others. (If you are unclear about the difference between affect, and effect, please look them up, it's important). There are many contributing factors to this trend, none of which are the tools people use to commit violence, including guns.

So, no there is not a "gun problem".

 

[theHawk]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

The right to bear arms is a constitutional right, period.

[...]

You obviously do not live in New Jersey or some of the other Northern states that manifest brazen contempt for the Second Amendment.

Correct I do not.

 

[Timmy]

Except, that you should consider incorporating the Constitutional aspect and the historical aspects into your reasoning as well.

The left has very little loyalty to the constitution as written. When you tell the left wing..."but the constitution says..." I honestly believe most of them roll their eyes. I think most conservatives know that. That's why I made my argument elsewhere.

The right wipes their ass with with the constitution OTHER than the 2nd . Don't think so? Just ask them about state issued voter ID and watch them pull a 180 on people's con rights .

We have a probleM with crazy and criminals getting guns . All guns are born "legal" Gun nut states make it too easy for them to fall into the illega market . So easy that even teenagers can score an illegal gun. So you are right about the supply .

 

[oldsoul]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

The right to bear arms is a constitutional right, period.

The real problem is crime, and the people that commit violent crimes and "gun crimes". Most of the time they are repeat offenders, and people that have shown a history of violence. Our real problem is the "thug culture", and a justice system that lets them off the hook all too often and puts thugs right back on the streets. The solution is much stricter sentencing for violent crimes, we need to keep them locked up most of their adult lives. We need to build bigger prisons and keep them all locked up. We also need to keep mentally ill that have a tendency towards violence closely monitored and the dangerous ones in mental hospitals. Also crack down on illegal immigration since many gang bangers are illegals.

I think you are missing a HUGE part of the "problem" as well. And that is:

"Why are there so many turning to crime in the first place?"

Locking them up, will do nothing to solve that. It will only serve to put more people in jail. Figure out the "why" and solve that, the rest becomes much easier to manage, if not "solve" all together.

The majority of violent crime perps are blacks and Latinos. You may want to look there and ask them why they turn to crime. As I said the real problem is the "thug culture", which includes TV and music, etc. sensationalizing such violence. Some people may just be too dumb to separate fiction from real life.

But the answer is most definitely to increase prison sentences. Keeping thugs off the streets prevents them from committing more crime. We also need the death penalty for crimes like murder and rape standard.

You say that the "real problem is the "thug culture"" and that "The majority of violent crime perps are blacks and Latinos. You may want to look there and ask them why they turn to crime." I have looked into this, have you? I know, at least intellectually, why many of these people turn to crime. Do you? Have you bothered to do the research to support and understand your position? Have you bothered to find out the "why"?

 

[Confounding]

Have you bothered to find out the "why"?

People turn to crime because they are desperate and lack better options.

 

[theHawk]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

The right to bear arms is a constitutional right, period.

The real problem is crime, and the people that commit violent crimes and "gun crimes". Most of the time they are repeat offenders, and people that have shown a history of violence. Our real problem is the "thug culture", and a justice system that lets them off the hook all too often and puts thugs right back on the streets. The solution is much stricter sentencing for violent crimes, we need to keep them locked up most of their adult lives. We need to build bigger prisons and keep them all locked up. We also need to keep mentally ill that have a tendency towards violence closely monitored and the dangerous ones in mental hospitals. Also crack down on illegal immigration since many gang bangers are illegals.

I think you are missing a HUGE part of the "problem" as well. And that is:

"Why are there so many turning to crime in the first place?"

Locking them up, will do nothing to solve that. It will only serve to put more people in jail. Figure out the "why" and solve that, the rest becomes much easier to manage, if not "solve" all together.

The majority of violent crime perps are blacks and Latinos. You may want to look there and ask them why they turn to crime. As I said the real problem is the "thug culture", which includes TV and music, etc. sensationalizing such violence. Some people may just be too dumb to separate fiction from real life.

But the answer is most definitely to increase prison sentences. Keeping thugs off the streets prevents them from committing more crime. We also need the death penalty for crimes like murder and rape standard.

You say that the "real problem is the "thug culture"" and that "The majority of violent crime perps are blacks and Latinos. You may want to look there and ask them why they turn to crime." I have looked into this, have you? I know, at least intellectually, why many of these people turn to crime. Do you? Have you bothered to do the research to support and understand your position? Have you bothered to find out the "why"?

No, I'm not going to waste my time investigating "why" thugs are thugs. The government should not waste its time either. We are a nation of laws, and people that break them should be held accountable. Giving them a pass because you'd rather look at the reasons they commit crimes is dangerous to society. It's exactly why we have repeat offenders and countless victims that should had never become victims.