CDZ Guns Tanks and Nucklear Weapons. The second amendment.

[flacaltenn]

Mod Message:

Removing 6 posts for CDZ rules violations. I might have missed some.
If you got an alert for a deletion -- your NEXT one gets your butt kicked out of thread.
If the OP gets another one -- the thread will be closed..

Respect the forum that you are in..

 

[hauke]

question are we still in 1786 or are we in 2016 ?

are there privateers who wage war against commercial shipping in 2016 ?

may it be that law and ethics in gouvernement have advanced scince 1786 ?

 

[hauke]

in 1776 the USA declared its independance, in 1786 the USA was independant

 

[Hiryuu]

question are we still in 1786 or are we in 2016 ?

are there privateers who wage war against commercial shipping in 2016 ?

may it be that law and ethics in gouvernement have advanced scince 1786 ?

Mexican Pirates Robbing American Fisherman in the Gulf of Mexico

 

[flacaltenn]

question are we still in 1786 or are we in 2016 ?

are there privateers who wage war against commercial shipping in 2016 ?

may it be that law and ethics in gouvernement have advanced scince 1786 ?

You are trying to divine the "INTENT" of the 2nd Amend. I'm telling you how the folks who WROTE IT -- interpreted it. Citizens could own battleships. Whether that is WISE or practical today -- is another issue.

How about -- Should CITIES own armored (and/or armed) military vehicles? After all -- they are operated by CITIZENS -- not soldiers..

 

[hauke]

question are we still in 1786 or are we in 2016 ?

are there privateers who wage war against commercial shipping in 2016 ?

may it be that law and ethics in gouvernement have advanced scince 1786 ?

You are trying to divine the "INTENT" of the 2nd Amend. I'm telling you how the folks who WROTE IT -- interpreted it. Citizens could own battleships. Whether that is WISE or practical today -- is another issue.

How about -- Should CITIES own armored (and/or armed) military vehicles? After all -- they are operated by CITIZENS -- not soldiers..

^the folks who wrote it lived in 1776 before even steam power before nuclear power before assault rifles, do you want to be controlled by people who have no clue about 2016 ?

who have been dead for 200 years ? do you want to be controlled by people who are dead for 200 years ?

 

[hauke]

are you some kind of MAD MINION of a person whos dead for 200 years ?

 

[Wyatt earp]

question are we still in 1786 or are we in 2016 ?

are there privateers who wage war against commercial shipping in 2016 ?

may it be that law and ethics in gouvernement have advanced scince 1786 ?

You are trying to divine the "INTENT" of the 2nd Amend. I'm telling you how the folks who WROTE IT -- interpreted it. Citizens could own battleships. Whether that is WISE or practical today -- is another issue.

How about -- Should CITIES own armored (and/or armed) military vehicles? After all -- they are operated by CITIZENS -- not soldiers..

^the folks who wrote it lived in 1776 before even steam power before nuclear power before assault rifles, do you want to be controlled by people who have no clue about 2016 ?

who have been dead for 200 years ? do you want to be controlled by people who are dead for 200 years ?

Times change, people dont

 

[Hiryuu]

^the folks who wrote it lived in 1776 before even steam power before nuclear power before assault rifles, do you want to be controlled by people who have no clue about 2016 ?

who have been dead for 200 years ? do you want to be controlled by people who are dead for 200 years ?

They don't control us, and in fact it was the exact opposite they offered in that they recognized our ability to control ourselves instead of a bunch of nanny state tyranny. I know it is difficult for some people to understand personal responsibility, but it walks hand in hand with a desire for freedom. Liberty requires the understanding that things are not perfect, the government cannot fix your problems, and we have the personal obligation to do the best we can while weathering the inadequacies of those who fail to do as expected.

 

[hunarcy]

every american is allowed to have arms in a well regulated militia.

im paraphrasing

what kind of arms is an american allowed to have ?

rifles ? tanks ? nuclear weapons ?

hey wait. it said "in a well regulated militia"

so does that mean that americans aren t allowed to have arms outside a well regulated militia ?

what do you think ?

what are arms ? a muzzleloaded musket ? or a laser guided Assault rifle ? or a nuclear bomb ? are americans allowed to have nuclear bombs ?

and do they have the right to bear this arms outside a well regulated militia ?

"It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it."

Meaning of the phrase

 

[flacaltenn]

are you some kind of MAD MINION of a person whos dead for 200 years ?

You beat me to that. You claimed you KNEW what the Founder's intent of the 2nd Amend. was -- didn't you?

 

[hauke]

so your saying that regulation should not enable a gouvernement to controll.
#
then who controls the regulation ?

i think the founding fathers in 1776 thought every man should have a musket and be part of the local militia, so yes i think i know what the american founding fathers thought a well regulated militia meant in 1776 and i aprove of that thought, 250 years later the usa gun regulation is fucked up theres as well regulated militia the national guard and people who belive they have the right to fight the gouvernement which the founding fathers would disagree with, in my opinion

 

[flacaltenn]

so your saying that regulation should not enable a gouvernement to controll.
#
then who controls the regulation ?

Soon after the BofRights passed -- The Fed Govt DID clarify what they regulated. THey did write some rules for the TRAINING and READINESS of the "militias". But they never messed with the INTENT of 2nd Amendment which is an INDIVIDUAL right.

 

[hauke]

so you know the intend of the 2nd amendment, an individual right. so absurd considering that it was writen that it should be regulated. you ignore every word you don t like

 

[hauke]

and what about nuclear bombs ? do americans have the right to bear nuclear bombs ?

 

[hauke]

if americans have the right to bear arms then americans have the right to bear nuclear bombs

 

[hauke]

if theres any discrimination in the arms then it should be legal to forbid firearms, and reduce arms to baseball bats, or spoons you can kill people with a spoon, maybe make spoons illegal ok someone goto decide wheres the borderline

 

[hauke]

obviouesly we all use spoons, but we don t need assault rifles, not assault rifles, battle rifles. we don t need battle rifles in civilian hands. assault riffles need a fully automatic mode. battle rifles can be semiautomatic. the M1 Garand in the WW2 was a battlerifle, it was semiautomatic

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you have to join a "well regulated" militia to bear arms.

join the national guard

otherwise your just a criminal with guns

Every single male age 17 to 45 by US Law is a member of the Militia.

 

[GaryDog]

the 2nd amendmend was made in 1784 when arms meant muzzle loaded muskets.

not assault rifles machineguns tanks nuclear weapons

I have a sterling record as a gun control advocate on this board. I believe that assault weapons are, in fact, a public health hazard.

But I understand that the constitution is elastic enough to cover changes in technology. Certainly the founding fathers could not conceive of machine guns, rocket propelled grenades, thermonuclear warheads.

But the could not envisage computers, telephones and the internet either. When the 4th amendment speaks of unwarranted searches and seizures of 'letters', we understand that this extends to computers and e-mails as well. Faxes, telephone communications, and personal messages are just as private as posted letters.

Let us then assume that semi-automatic weapons, as dangerous and unnecessary as they are, can be considered 'arms' under the meaning of the second amendment.

Now, the constitution was written for the people. It is not a suicide pact. It is, in fact, an elastic document that serves successive generations as it served our predecessors.

How are they a health hazard.......? Numbers and facts should show that..right...but they don't....there is not one fact that supports what you believe.....

about 8 million rifles with detachable magazines in this country, 5 million AR-15s

157 deaths in mass public shootings with rifles with detachable magzines.......in 34 years....

Cars...every single year....33,000...

Knives in 2014...... 1,567.....and over 1,500 every year....

How exactly are they a health hazard...

On the CDC guns are 17 on the top 20 ways to die in this country....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8



For 2014 included......


All rifles: 248 ------------(2013....285 (that means AR-15s kill even fewer than that))

Knives: 1,567-------------( 2013....1,490)

Hands and feet: 660----( 2013 .......687 )

Blunt objects: 435------ ( 2013....428)

And gun murders by rifle...been going down....

2008...380

2009...351

2010...367

2011...332

2012...298

2013...285

2014...248

After the assault ban was lifted in a country of over 320 million people with 90 million homes with guns

And over 5,000,000 AR-15s in private hands.........

5,000,000 legal AR-15s....less than 285 murders and we don't have the actual number for just AR-15s

..knife murders.....2009-2013.....



Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 - Crime in the United States 2009

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 - Crime in the United States 2008

murder by knife......

2004---1,866
2005---1,920
2006---1,830
2007---1,817
2008---1,888
2009----1,828
2010----1,732
2011----1,716
2012---1,604
2013---1,490
2014---1,567

Rifle murder....

2004---403
2005---445
2006---438
2007---453
2008---380
2009---351
2010---367
2011---332
2012---298
2013---285
2014---248


How Many Assault Weapons Are There in America? How Much Would It Cost the Government To Buy Them Back?

Add everything together, make all the necessary caveats, carry the two, and we reach the conclusion that there are somewhere around 3,750,000 AR-15-type rifles in the United States today. If there are around 310 million firearms in the USA today, that means these auto-loading assault-style rifles make up around 1 percent of the total arsenal.

The class of assault weapons goes beyond the AR-15. What defines a 'mass shooting' among your statistics? Why has the NRA blocked funding for a proper study of gun death by the CDC?

If the Ford Pinto and lawn darts can be considered health hazards, why not the gun?

There are 357,000,000 guns in private hands...........


Guns are used 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack and to save lives, many times to stop mass public shootings....

They are were used, illegally, to commit the illegal act of murder 8,124 times in 2014.......

There were 586 accidental gun deaths in 2015....out of 357,000,000 guns in private hands.......

Cars killed 33,000 and injured 2 million......

You count "accidental" incidents in terms of death, yet you claim 1.5 million defensive uses when a gun isn't even TOUCHED. Your statistics are utter hogwash.

Want to compare apples to apples? Here it is:

Gun Violence Archive

984 defensive uses.

1287 accidental shootings.

Nearly 17,000 injured.

31,740 total incidents.

8,155 dead.

ALL JUST IN 2016 SO FAR