Harvard Professor Jailed; Officer Is Accused of Bias

[Shogun]

As you know, Mitch and I were working on the cyanide system. Well, earlier today it ate itself. But, these little set-backs are just what we need to take a giant step forward. Right, Kent? Needless to say, I was a little despondent about the melt down, but then, in the midst of my preparations for hari kiri, it came to me. It is possible to synthesize excited bromide in an argon matrix. Yes, it's an excimer frozen in its excited state.

but FIRST..

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Depends on the law in a jurisdiction doesn't it?

Perhaps, but I'd settle for any police procedure written anywhere in the continental US that made such a distinction.

In full disclosure I've studied criminal justice for four years.

For an arrest to be valid there has to be adherence to the law. I don't know what the law is in Mass. or Tx but where I am a police officer can arrest someone on reasonable suspicion of committing, being about to commit or having committed, any offence - any offence at all. Where I am you can carry on like a two-bob watch in your own home but provided no-one is in danger you won't face arrest. However, it is an offence to behave in a disorderly manner in a public place and it's highly likely that you will be pinched. That's all I know.

Fair enough.

 

[Anguille]

"Figueroa" sounds portagee to me.

What, no capital P ya fuck'n bigot!

Shad up, ya suburban canine eugenicist!!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So what do you call it when someone says that a randomly selected black man is likely to have a lower IQ than a randomly selected white man?

Sorry, didn't see it.

I think its a false analogy. Here's what I mean:

Americans are taught to believe that black men are dangerous. That they are criminals (except the harmless ones like Gary Coleman, Michael Jackson, Erkle [sp.?], etc.). The media for decades presented it that way. Like in Dirty Harry where Clint's eating a hamburger and the bank is being robbed by black men, or in the sequel, Sudden Impact, where he's getting coffee when the diner gets robbed by black men both scenes you should remember because that's when Clint utters those famous one liners:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MJPAWG-BC0]YouTube - Dirty Harry - Clint Eastwood[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIi3MRwElrU]YouTube - Sudden Impact (Diner Scene)[/ame]

Or many other movies, tv shows, and even the news. I don't think its so much about the color of their skin as it is that black men have been portrayed this way for so long and people really buy into it.

I also think its "cultural-ism" instead of race-ism. White people aren't part of black culture and vice versa, generally speaking. Who would you be more scared of if you ran into them in a dark alley, a black guy like Carlton, or a white guy like Jay-Z? Remember, Gates' huge black driver was helping him force the front door open. Doesn't Gates' neighbors know him and recognize him? Or did they just see two black guys breaking in and not stop to think about it for a second? Its perceived that the culture of black men that is criminal, and not so much their genetic make-up.

Comparing that with trying to find genetic deficiencies or inequalities between the two races doesn't really, in my opinion, compare the same. One is about perception of a group based on genes (you example) and the other is about how white people in a wealthy neighborhood could likely react due to mis-perception brought about by misrepresentation about a group of people.

What a crock of shit!! I've never been taught that black men were dangerous or they were criminals! You folks in Colorado are a bunch of racist!! And using movies to make your point is fucking hilarious. I guess you folks in Colorado freaked out when Shaft hit the scene huh?

 

[Diuretic]

Apparently the caller reported two big black men with knapsacks on their backs. When it was actually one big black man and one small black man with suitcases.

That's not bad. The memory function is reconstructive, we remember what we think we saw, unless someone has a an eidetic memory they're simply reconstructing impressions.

Exactly. So instead of seeing her neighbor and his driver having trouble opening his front door, she saw two black guys breaking and entering. Who know what she would have seen if they were white or even women?
Don't get me wrong. I think she was right to call it in to the police. I'd be grateful if it was my home. But Coloradomntman isn't off base to suggest the caller could possibly have been influenced by stereotyping when she made the decision to call it in.

I don't know if she was infuenced by stereotyping but I suspect there might be something in that - and that's only human isn't it?

If the two men were white and wearing suits she might have thought they were detectives, especially if a tan coloured Crown Vic was at the front of the house. She might have shrugged her shoulders and forgot about it. Maybe she thought about calling the police but then may have thought she would look silly if they really were cops. But then she would probably have expected detectives not to do that in her neighbourhood. In a poor, crime-ridden neighbourhood the residents might well perceive two men in suits going through a front door as detectives.

I'd say that the sight of two black men forcing the front door probably motivated her more to call the police than if they'd been two white men similarly dressed due to that reconstruction effect.

One thing I do now, it's more useful to be frank about these things than to curtail thinking by self-censorship due to white middle class guilt or to resort to cries of racism due to some sort of shared resentment. The useful thing about this thread is that people's real thoughts and feelings can be expressed, that's healthy, those thoughts and feelings can be examined. Okay the debate can get heated but as Milton said, "that which purifies us is trial, and trial is by what is contrary".

 

[Anguille]

Now. did you want to pinpoint the flaw in my logic

I think mani did just that. A few posts back.

Why couldn't a "typical ******" become a Harvard professor?

Apparently they can.

 

[Ravi]

Perhaps his neighbors called the cops because it looked like someone was breaking into the house and race had nothing to do with it. But there is room for doubt...

Apparently the caller reported two big black men with knapsacks on their backs. When it was actually one big black man and one small black man with suitcases.

That was weird. Prolly the caller actually was stereotyping, imagining back packs. I'm surprised she didn't say they had boom boxes on their shoulders.

 

[Shogun]

Now. did you want to pinpoint the flaw in my logic

I think mani did just that. A few posts back.

Why couldn't a "typical ******" become a Harvard professor?

Apparently they can.

um.. i'm not sure you are reading that the same way I read his post, Ang...


YOu might wanna drag him in here and rethink that a little bit.

 

[Anguille]

I don't know if she was infuenced by stereotyping but I suspect there might be something in that - and that's only human isn't it?

If the two men were white and wearing suits she might have thought they were detectives, especially if a tan coloured Crown Vic was at the front of the house. She might have shrugged her shoulders and forgot about it. Maybe she thought about calling the police but then may have thought she would look silly if they really were cops. But then she would probably have expected detectives not to do that in her neighbourhood. In a poor, crime-ridden neighbourhood the residents might well perceive two men in suits going through a front door as detectives.

I'd say that the sight of two black men forcing the front door probably motivated her more to call the police than if they'd been two white men similarly dressed due to that reconstruction effect.

One thing I do now, it's more useful to be frank about these things than to curtail thinking by self-censorship due to white middle class guilt or to resort to cries of racism due to some sort of shared resentment. The useful thing about this thread is that people's real thoughts and feelings can be expressed, that's healthy, those thoughts and feelings can be examined. Okay the debate can get heated but as Milton said, "that which purifies us is trial, and trial is by what is contrary".

I'm not condemning the woman. I agree it's only human to stereotype and you could argue that some measure of stereotyping is useful in this very complex and fast moving world. She probably wanted to be safe rather than sorry. I don't think that her actions make her a racist nor do the cop's indicate he was using some sort of racial profiling. (And incidentally, Gates and his driver were wearing suits).

And I agree that it's best to be frank about these things. If Gates was being an ass, (and I think he was) he can't be excused because he's black and also Harvard professor and known liberal. I say call a spade a spade.

WHOOPS!!

 

[Anguille]

Perhaps his neighbors called the cops because it looked like someone was breaking into the house and race had nothing to do with it. But there is room for doubt...

Apparently the caller reported two big black men with knapsacks on their backs. When it was actually one big black man and one small black man with suitcases.

That was weird. Prolly the caller actually was stereotyping, imagining back packs. I'm surprised she didn't say they had boom boxes on their shoulders.

And do-rags/ lol!
I think she most definitely was. And this story goes to show that everyone, not just Gates, can jump to the wrong conclusions.

I bet this woman is laying low. I'd be a little embarrassed.

 

[Anguille]

My own stereotypes became apparent to me when reading the article and I realized I had automatically assumed the arresting officer was white, before anything in the article gave me reason to think that.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

What a crock of shit!! I've never been taught that black men were dangerous or they were criminals! You folks in Colorado are a bunch of racist!!

Then I guess, in your opinion, we're no better than

blacks

And using movies to make your point is fucking hilarious.

Great argument, you're a genius!

I was stating that movies, tv, and the media have portrayed black men as criminals and used two movies to illustrate that. How does that NOT support my point?

I guess you folks in Colorado freaked out when Shaft hit the scene huh?

Not as much as you folks in Texas freaked out when Obama won the election!

US election: Republicans in Texas shattered by Obama win | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

[Anguille]

And then when I saw his name, I then thought "Hot headed Irish man, that supports my theory even more that both Gates and the officer were initially responsible for the misunderstanding.

 

[Diuretic]

It's a chance to clear the air. This is what's wrong with political correctness, it creates a stifling atmosphere which breeds nutcases like the KKK.

Gates has actually contributed to the continuing existence of that stifling atmosphere. I can smell the resentment from here.

He's a foolish, egotistical but damaged man.

Instead of being reasonable with the first cop he allowed his long-held resentments to control him.

The first cop, realising it was going to get racial, called his supervisor. I'd say the first cop at that stage worked out that Gates was the house owner (assuming Gates had done the reasonable thing and confirmed his identify as the house owner) and just knew Gates would beef him so called his supervisor for backup - not physically but backup on policy, "hey Sarge, I didn't ask him for his id because he's black, I asked him for his id because he was found in a house which was reportedly being broken into!"

In a parallel universe the first cop turned up and found Gates and his driver in the house. The first cop not unnaturally asked them who they were. Laughlngly Gates pulled out his id and told the cop what had happened, said that he felt a bit foolish but thanked the cop for attending and asked if he could speak to the neighbour an thank her for being a good neighbour. The cop apologised, Gates waved his hand and said it was totally unnecessary and to "stay safe out there". The two men shook hands and the cop left. And none of us knew about it. But in that parallel universe Gates wasn't haunted by demons.

 

[Ravi]

My own stereotypes became apparent to me when reading the article and I realized I had automatically assumed the arresting officer was white, before anything in the article gave me reason to think that.

Yar...this reminds me of the test I posted at the other forum that everyone was afraid to take because it reveals that everyone is racist (ethnist) and sexist to a certain extent.

It does amaze me that somehow it is a shocker and considered worse when blacks display these tendencies.

 

[Anguille]

It does amaze me that somehow it is a shocker and considered worse when blacks display these tendencies.

I'm going to go out on a stereotyping limb and say that is mostly the case with spoiled white guys.

 

[Shogun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFjS...films-you-should-know&feature=player_embedded

 

[Shogun]

It does amaze me that somehow it is a shocker and considered worse when blacks display these tendencies.

I'm going to go out on a stereotyping limb and say that is mostly the case with spoiled white guys.

I guess two silly white bitches who have been spanked like bad girls might think so.

 

[Anguille]

It does amaze me that somehow it is a shocker and considered worse when blacks display these tendencies.

I'm going to go out on a stereotyping limb and say that is mostly the case with spoiled white guys.

I guess two silly white bitches who have been spanked like bad girls might think so.

I knew you would say something like that.

Man, do I ever have you pigeonholed!!

 

[BrianH]

Someone probably saw him in the yard, thought the professor was still in China and called the cops. It wouldn't have mattered if he was a white man or a black man. The problem is when police officers make mistakes, citizens someone receive an enema full of courage and start talking shit. I've seen it happen several times where someone proves innocents and then starts mouthing off and being disrespectful (as if they've never been wrong before).

This is the fault of the professor and the officer for letting the situation escalate. This man could have simply stated that he lived there, showed some ID and calmly explained his situation, but he chose the other route. The officer should have run the address to see whose home it was, that way when the professor identified himself, the officer would know who it was.