Has science proved there is no God?

[Boss]

Again, you actually are talking abut religion. You just are too slow to understand that others clearly see your agenda of promoting your silly "spirit realms" as something different from a fundamentalist religious belief that is identical to what oozes out of the fundamentalist Christian ministries.

Again, I am actually NOT talking about religion. I am not promoting anything and have never used the phrase "spirit realms" in my life, so I am unclear as to why you're dishonestly quoting it.

Now, I'll have to bow to your expertise on what fundamentalist Christian ministries are oozing because I don't spend any time following what they say. I can only assume that if you spend as much time paying attention to that as you do arguing against a God you don't believe in, you're probably way ahead of me.

I happen to know a lot of Christians.. not sure if they are "fundamentalist" or not, how do you tell? Or... is "fundamentalist" now a universal derogatory word to replace bigotry? Do you think of ALL Christians as "fundamentalists" or are some of them okay in your book?

 

[Boss]

If you knew anything of the history of religions, you would understand that they were, and are, a mechanism to cohere large groups of people into a group-think mindset, usually to do the bidding of one or a very few manipulative leaders.

You should try and educate yourself to some history. You will find that religious are hardly the standard of morality you falsely claim them to be.

I know all about the history of religions, it is a subject that has always interested me. It's also interesting that you basically just described Liberalism as a religion and the Democrat party as it's Church. "...a mechanism to [coerce?] large groups of people into a group-think mindset, usually to do the bidding of one or a very few manipulative leaders."

I've not claimed religions are the standard for morality. The fanatical Muslims think it's moral to saw people's heads off, or put Christians in a cage, douse them with gasoline and set them on fire to burn alive. That's their standard of morality based on their religion.

How long is it going to take for me to get you to understand, I am not arguing anything about RELIGION? ....You can keep dishonestly claiming it and having these insane arguments in your head over and over again... I can't do anything about your mental state.

I am a proponent of human spirituality. It is true that basically all religions are founded due to human spirituality, they are the primary evidence that human beings do make some legitimate spiritual connection with something. That's not saying their religions are true, just that they are inspired by human spirituality. Religion is not the only thing human spirituality inspires, there are also acts of humanity. I imagine many Atheists have done good humanitarian deeds but these are spiritually inspired whether the Atheist realizes or acknowledges it as such. I think you once accidentally referred to it as "the greater good" which is contemplated by man.

Whenever you do something to help others, you get a good feeling inside for doing it. That is spiritual. There is no physical way to actually quantify this feeling... oh sure, there are chemical reactions happening in the brain and such, but did you decide to act because your brain craved a chemical or because of genuine empathy and concern? We can't separate our human emotions from our spirituality, they are inseparable and indistinguishable. We are spiritually-driven creatures... and we always have been and will be.

 

[Hollie]

If you knew anything of the history of religions, you would understand that they were, and are, a mechanism to cohere large groups of people into a group-think mindset, usually to do the bidding of one or a very few manipulative leaders.

You should try and educate yourself to some history. You will find that religious are hardly the standard of morality you falsely claim them to be.

I know all about the history of religions, it is a subject that has always interested me. It's also interesting that you basically just described Liberalism as a religion and the Democrat party as it's Church. "...a mechanism to [coerce?] large groups of people into a group-think mindset, usually to do the bidding of one or a very few manipulative leaders."

I've not claimed religions are the standard for morality. The fanatical Muslims think it's moral to saw people's heads off, or put Christians in a cage, douse them with gasoline and set them on fire to burn alive. That's their standard of morality based on their religion.

How long is it going to take for me to get you to understand, I am not arguing anything about RELIGION? ....You can keep dishonestly claiming it and having these insane arguments in your head over and over again... I can't do anything about your mental state.

I am a proponent of human spirituality. It is true that basically all religions are founded due to human spirituality, they are the primary evidence that human beings do make some legitimate spiritual connection with something. That's not saying their religions are true, just that they are inspired by human spirituality. Religion is not the only thing human spirituality inspires, there are also acts of humanity. I imagine many Atheists have done good humanitarian deeds but these are spiritually inspired whether the Atheist realizes or acknowledges it as such. I think you once accidentally referred to it as "the greater good" which is contemplated by man.

Whenever you do something to help others, you get a good feeling inside for doing it. That is spiritual. There is no physical way to actually quantify this feeling... oh sure, there are chemical reactions happening in the brain and such, but did you decide to act because your brain craved a chemical or because of genuine empathy and concern? We can't separate our human emotions from our spirituality, they are inseparable and indistinguishable. We are spiritually-driven creatures... and we always have been and will be.

Well actually, we can separate our emotions from our "spirituality" because your fundamentalist religious beliefs which you continue to misrepresent as some invention of yours you call "spirituality" is simply your religious belief.

I'm not sure why it is that you continue to cut and paste the same "spiritual" memes over and over. I get it - your fundamentalist religious beliefs cause you to proselytize on behalf of your creation ministries, but have you considered that your cutting and pasting of the same slogans and cliches' makes you appear quite desperate?

 

[sealybobo]

Omg

You dont need a god to be good.

On the surface, this statement seems harmless enough. It's easy for me to imagine that people can think of themselves as being good without having any belief in a higher power. Mostly because the human ego causes us to rationalize our behaviors. However, when we actually break down this concept of "good and evil" and how man can regulate his own behavior, the notion breaks down. What IS "good" and what IS "evil?" How do mortal human beings distinguish between the two?

IF I have no spiritual foundation for what is good or evil, then what is good or evil is solely dependent on what I rationalize. That means, if I think it's better that my tribe have your tribe's food and resources... killing you and taking your shit becomes "good" because I've rationalized it as such. It is ONLY when I have a belief in higher moral authority that I can rationalize a purpose greater than self and understand that it's "evil" to kill you and take your shit.

Omg america the christian nation does just that. We take shit all the time and god agrees with us. Supposedly

 

[sealybobo]

Omg

You dont need a god to be good.

On the surface, this statement seems harmless enough. It's easy for me to imagine that people can think of themselves as being good without having any belief in a higher power. Mostly because the human ego causes us to rationalize our behaviors. However, when we actually break down this concept of "good and evil" and how man can regulate his own behavior, the notion breaks down. What IS "good" and what IS "evil?" How do mortal human beings distinguish between the two?

IF I have no spiritual foundation for what is good or evil, then what is good or evil is solely dependent on what I rationalize. That means, if I think it's better that my tribe have your tribe's food and resources... killing you and taking your shit becomes "good" because I've rationalized it as such. It is ONLY when I have a belief in higher moral authority that I can rationalize a purpose greater than self and understand that it's "evil" to kill you and take your shit.

Omg america the christian nation does just that. We take shit all the time and god agrees with us. Suppo

Further, nothing about a ceremony requires religious belief.

I'm not talking about religions. Humans invented religions thousands of years later because of spirituality.

Ceremonial rituals cannot be anything other than spiritual. There is no natural or rational explanation for them otherwise. Now, it's easy as hell to sit here and stubbornly deny that fact, it takes very little effort to stick your fingers in your ears and go "lalalallalalalaallalallala... not listening... lalalallalalallalallalaa!" What you can't do is what you haven't done this entire thread or any other similar thread, PROVE YOUR POINT!

You certainly are referring to religions. You continue to stumble all over your inability to differentiate your fundamentalist religious beliefs from ceremony and ritual. You have an insensate need to assign religions and gawds where they have no business being.

Ceremony and ritual certainly are not necessarily religious which you falsely reinvent and reinterpret as something you call "spiritual". What's absurd is that you can't even define "spiritual" but you attempt to drench humanity with it.

What you can't do and what you sidestep, waffle and backtrack on is actually providing support for your baseless claims which amount to pointless slogans and cliches' while spewing your religious fundamentalist views.

I Go to a funeral and mourn but I dont think there's a god or heaven. Just sad and will miss them. And I want to put a nice tombstone at their grave. Doesnt have anything to do with god.

And you dont have to believe to know that pilot was wrong killing all those people.

 

[Boss]

Omg

You dont need a god to be good.

On the surface, this statement seems harmless enough. It's easy for me to imagine that people can think of themselves as being good without having any belief in a higher power. Mostly because the human ego causes us to rationalize our behaviors. However, when we actually break down this concept of "good and evil" and how man can regulate his own behavior, the notion breaks down. What IS "good" and what IS "evil?" How do mortal human beings distinguish between the two?

IF I have no spiritual foundation for what is good or evil, then what is good or evil is solely dependent on what I rationalize. That means, if I think it's better that my tribe have your tribe's food and resources... killing you and taking your shit becomes "good" because I've rationalized it as such. It is ONLY when I have a belief in higher moral authority that I can rationalize a purpose greater than self and understand that it's "evil" to kill you and take your shit.

Omg america the christian nation does just that. We take shit all the time and god agrees with us. Supposedly

Since America is not a religious theocracy, you have made my point.

 

[Boss]

I Go to a funeral and mourn but I dont think there's a god or heaven. Just sad and will miss them. And I want to put a nice tombstone at their grave. Doesnt have anything to do with god.

Right... But... If you went to a funeral, put red ocher on your face and did a little dance around the deceased while chanting and singing... this would denote spirituality. There is no other explanation for ceremonial ritual burials. They do not produce any physically tangible result so there is no physical purpose for them.

 

[Boss]

Well actually, we can separate our emotions from our "spirituality" because...

Hold on, you just made a definitive statement of what we can do but you've offered no scientific evidence to support your opinion. Where does science say we can separate our emotions from our spirituality? It would be interesting to see how scientists evaluated that since they can't evaluate spiritual nature. It sounds to me like this is very much a FAITH-BASED belief you have.... preached from your Maddrasses and such... blah blah ICR... fundamentalist stuff!

 

[Hollie]

Well actually, we can separate our emotions from our "spirituality" because...

Hold on, you just made a definitive statement of what we can do but you've offered no scientific evidence to support your opinion. Where does science say we can separate our emotions from our spirituality? It would be interesting to see how scientists evaluated that since they can't evaluate spiritual nature. It sounds to me like this is very much a FAITH-BASED belief you have.... preached from your Maddrasses and such... blah blah ICR... fundamentalist stuff!

Well actually, I was commenting that your definitive statements regarding your assignment of "spiritual'ness" to humanity to be phony and contrived.

Where does science say anything about "spirituality". See bossy, this is the problem you face when your arguments are built on religious fundamentalism.

 

[sealybobo]

You certainly are referring to religions.

No sweetie, YOU are talking about religions. You see, your hate and anger toward religion is causing you to hear things that aren't being said... or read things that aren't being written.

I have no argument for religion. I am not religious. I believe all organized religions are flawed creations of man. There have been some outright wicked religions... radical fundamental Islamism comes to mind. History's graveyard is full of failed dynasties and empires built on religion. Kings and tyrants have often perverted religion or simply created their own personalized versions. There are plenty of valid arguments against organized religions and I am not here to defend any of them... never have been... never will be.

Human spirituality is NOT RELIGION! It precedes ANY religious teaching by ten's of thousands of years. It was through many many generations of human spirituality that religion was born.

Just because you my dad and primitive man can't imagine there is no creator doesnt mean there is one. And you completely changing what god is doesnt help your cause any. Makes you a cult of 1. To a christian Jew Muslim or Mormon you are basically an athiest. You deny their stories. I told you you'd come around.

 

[sealybobo]

Well actually, we can separate our emotions from our "spirituality" because...

Hold on, you just made a definitive statement of what we can do but you've offered no scientific evidence to support your opinion. Where does science say we can separate our emotions from our spirituality? It would be interesting to see how scientists evaluated that since they can't evaluate spiritual nature. It sounds to me like this is very much a FAITH-BASED belief you have.... preached from your Maddrasses and such... blah blah ICR... fundamentalist stuff!

Well actually, I was commenting that your definitive statements regarding your assignment of "spiritual'ness" to humanity to be phony and contrived.

Where does science say anything about "spirituality". See bossy, this is the problem you face when your arguments are built on religious fundamentalism.

At least he admits the Jesus story is a myth. Moses too. Boss is waking up. I told him I use to have a personal relationship with god too after I realized religions were lies. I still believed in a god. Why? Its not logical. The universe just is.

 

[BreezeWood]

[History's graveyard is full of failed dynasties and empires built on ... . Kings and tyrants have often perverted religion or simply created their own personalized versions.

boss: Animals do have emotion and intelligence too... they don't have spirituality.

boss: Human spirituality is NOT RELIGION! It precedes ANY religious teaching by ten's of thousands of years. It was through many many generations of human spirituality that religion was born.

.

all living beings are Spiritual, correctly put no other beings create worship (boss) as an impediment to the empirical goal for Admission to the Everlasting sidestepping the daunting task to accomplish the Apex of Knowledge as is required prior to their physical demise.

the problem with boss , the same as ( History's graveyard full of failed dynasties and empires ) is their paths lead to the demise for all future generations not just his (their) own that is not shared by the other inhabitants of Garden Earth.

the A-Bomb is not Spirituality.

.

 

[sealybobo]

Well actually, we can separate our emotions from our "spirituality" because...

Hold on, you just made a definitive statement of what we can do but you've offered no scientific evidence to support your opinion. Where does science say we can separate our emotions from our spirituality? It would be interesting to see how scientists evaluated that since they can't evaluate spiritual nature. It sounds to me like this is very much a FAITH-BASED belief you have.... preached from your Maddrasses and such... blah blah ICR... fundamentalist stuff!

If it can't be measured scientifically then it doesnt exist in any meaningful way yet you credit it with creating the universe and you tap into it.

 

[sealybobo]

I Go to a funeral and mourn but I dont think there's a god or heaven. Just sad and will miss them. And I want to put a nice tombstone at their grave. Doesnt have anything to do with god.

Right... But... If you went to a funeral, put red ocher on your face and did a little dance around the deceased while chanting and singing... this would denote spirituality. There is no other explanation for ceremonial ritual burials. They do not produce any physically tangible result so there is no physical purpose for them.

Ohhh we the people of the kawaniyanee tribe want to say thanks to the big kahuna for taking the dearly departed to the great cloud in the sky. Legend had it that our ancestors were very creative spiritual people. Then astronomy kicked astrology's ass.

 

[Boss]

Well actually, we can separate our emotions from our "spirituality" because...

Hold on, you just made a definitive statement of what we can do but you've offered no scientific evidence to support your opinion. Where does science say we can separate our emotions from our spirituality? It would be interesting to see how scientists evaluated that since they can't evaluate spiritual nature. It sounds to me like this is very much a FAITH-BASED belief you have.... preached from your Maddrasses and such... blah blah ICR... fundamentalist stuff!

Well actually, I was commenting that your definitive statements regarding your assignment of "spiritual'ness" to humanity to be phony and contrived.

Where does science say anything about "spirituality". See bossy, this is the problem you face when your arguments are built on religious fundamentalism.

But you have yet to establish anything is phony and contrived with actual science. You can't even rationally explain how it's possible for human spirituality to be phony or contrived. The natural scientific evidence suggests it can't be phony or contrived or it wouldn't exist. What have you offered to counter that? I'm seeing nothing but your opinion... which is fine, it's what we ALL have... an opinion. Our opinions are based on our faith, not on science.

 

[Boss]

If it can't be measured scientifically then it doesnt exist in any meaningful way yet you credit it with creating the universe and you tap into it.

This has been debunked by astrophysics. Electrons disappear, are undetectable or measurable scientifically, yet they still exist. In fact, they can even exist in two places at the same time. Light can exist as a wave or particle depending on whether you're observing it's photons... and if that's not strange enough, it can go back in time and be a particle if you try and trick it into being a wave by not observing first-hand. Duality, although not really measurable scientifically, does indeed exist in a meaningful way.

Every month at CERN, they are colliding atoms to discover and "measure" for the first time, thousands upon thousands of subatomic particles. These are fundamental elements for all matter in the universe and they do exist. Things don't simply begin to exist whenever they are discovered.

We have no way of measuring anything inside a black hole, yet they do exist and they are meaningful in our universe. We just recently discovered Higgs boson... before we did, we couldn't measure it scientifically but we knew it must exist, according to our calculations. Another thing we can't measure scientifically but exists in a meaningful way is dark energy and dark matter, which makes up 96% of our universe.

The MOST troubling thing about your comment is, it defeats the purpose of Science itself! IF we cannot examine anything that isn't obvious and apparent because it is deemed meaningless, then what is the purpose of Science? No one would have ever created a telescope or microscope because... hey, if it's not something we can just see is there, it's not really important!

"If it can't be measured scientifically then it doesnt exist..."

SCIENCE refutes this statement!

 

[sealybobo]

The

When we buried our dead so the wolves and vultures wouldnt eat them we put flowers in the grave.

We also buried a living slave and pet with them. A sacrafise to the gawds. Since those primitive men did that it must be true.

Wait, you didn't explain the logical non-spiritual reason we buried a living slave and pet with them? You started off strong then petered out completely. It's funny because it reads almost as if you are trying to convince yourself that you are right but you can't do it. First sentence, you've got it all figured out... second sentence, you're explaining something spiritual again. ODD!

Here's the deal: You cannot explain ritual ceremonies without spirituality. They simply make no other rational or logical sense. Then you jump from clear evidence humans were spiritual to insisting the presence of spirituality can only exist if whatever is believed is true. There is no basis in logic for that. It's like if I were trying to argue that humans have never been scientific because of all the things science has disproved that we once believed. Because science has been wrong a few times, doesn't in any way, invalidate science.

They buried the pet and slave so they could have a pet and slave in heaven. Stupid ancient ancestors.

 

[sealybobo]

Well actually, we can separate our emotions from our "spirituality" because...

Hold on, you just made a definitive statement of what we can do but you've offered no scientific evidence to support your opinion. Where does science say we can separate our emotions from our spirituality? It would be interesting to see how scientists evaluated that since they can't evaluate spiritual nature. It sounds to me like this is very much a FAITH-BASED belief you have.... preached from your Maddrasses and such... blah blah ICR... fundamentalist stuff!

Well actually, I was commenting that your definitive statements regarding your assignment of "spiritual'ness" to humanity to be phony and contrived.

Where does science say anything about "spirituality". See bossy, this is the problem you face when your arguments are built on religious fundamentalism.

But you have yet to establish anything is phony and contrived with actual science. You can't even rationally explain how it's possible for human spirituality to be phony or contrived. The natural scientific evidence suggests it can't be phony or contrived or it wouldn't exist. What have you offered to counter that? I'm seeing nothing but your opinion... which is fine, it's what we ALL have... an opinion. Our opinions are based on our faith, not on science.

This is like indecency. You can't define it but you know it when you hear it. Same here. We know bs when we hear it. Hard to scientifically disprove your imaginary thing. Your god is so vague you can't even define it.

 

[sealybobo]

If it can't be measured scientifically then it doesnt exist in any meaningful way yet you credit it with creating the universe and you tap into it.

This has been debunked by astrophysics. Electrons disappear, are undetectable or measurable scientifically, yet they still exist. In fact, they can even exist in two places at the same time. Light can exist as a wave or particle depending on whether you're observing it's photons... and if that's not strange enough, it can go back in time and be a particle if you try and trick it into being a wave by not observing first-hand. Duality, although not really measurable scientifically, does indeed exist in a meaningful way.

Every month at CERN, they are colliding atoms to discover and "measure" for the first time, thousands upon thousands of subatomic particles. These are fundamental elements for all matter in the universe and they do exist. Things don't simply begin to exist whenever they are discovered.

We have no way of measuring anything inside a black hole, yet they do exist and they are meaningful in our universe. We just recently discovered Higgs boson... before we did, we couldn't measure it scientifically but we knew it must exist, according to our calculations. Another thing we can't measure scientifically but exists in a meaningful way is dark energy and dark matter, which makes up 96% of our universe.

The MOST troubling thing about your comment is, it defeats the purpose of Science itself! IF we cannot examine anything that isn't obvious and apparent because it is deemed meaningless, then what is the purpose of Science? No one would have ever created a telescope or microscope because... hey, if it's not something we can just see is there, it's not really important!

"If it can't be measured scientifically then it doesnt exist..."

SCIENCE refutes this statement!

Everything you mentioned is measured discussed and evaluated by science. We see black holes so we know they exist

Even then we only think we know.

You think you know god exists and you have zero evidence.

What evidence do you have on the locness monster?

Let's put it this way. You dont have enough evidence to substantiate your claims.

Its why Abraham had to lie and say god spoke to him

 

[sealybobo]

If it can't be measured scientifically then it doesnt exist in any meaningful way yet you credit it with creating the universe and you tap into it.

This has been debunked by astrophysics. Electrons disappear, are undetectable or measurable scientifically, yet they still exist. In fact, they can even exist in two places at the same time. Light can exist as a wave or particle depending on whether you're observing it's photons... and if that's not strange enough, it can go back in time and be a particle if you try and trick it into being a wave by not observing first-hand. Duality, although not really measurable scientifically, does indeed exist in a meaningful way.

Every month at CERN, they are colliding atoms to discover and "measure" for the first time, thousands upon thousands of subatomic particles. These are fundamental elements for all matter in the universe and they do exist. Things don't simply begin to exist whenever they are discovered.

We have no way of measuring anything inside a black hole, yet they do exist and they are meaningful in our universe. We just recently discovered Higgs boson... before we did, we couldn't measure it scientifically but we knew it must exist, according to our calculations. Another thing we can't measure scientifically but exists in a meaningful way is dark energy and dark matter, which makes up 96% of our universe.

The MOST troubling thing about your comment is, it defeats the purpose of Science itself! IF we cannot examine anything that isn't obvious and apparent because it is deemed meaningless, then what is the purpose of Science? No one would have ever created a telescope or microscope because... hey, if it's not something we can just see is there, it's not really important!

"If it can't be measured scientifically then it doesnt exist..."

SCIENCE refutes this statement!

If god would just appear like an electron then he can be observed. You have a hypothesis based on some theories. Anyways you have gone so far off base on what we define as god I think of you really as an agnostic.

I dont argue with my dad anymore. The other day he was going off on his "how can it be that everything is so perfect" and I go to show him something on my phone and he says "I dont want to see what science says I dont care!"

And I showed him the cuddlefish and birds of paradise. Blew his mind.

I'll let you two believe what you want. At least you two admit no god ever noahed us.