Has science proved there is no God?

[sealybobo]

"Has science proved there is no God?"

Science can't 'prove' that something that never existed in the first place doesn't now exist.

Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with. The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion, and as a consequence the argument fails to persuade.

Circular reasoning - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

out haven't convinced any non believers yet. You could be right god is energy but we just call it energy. Animals have emotion and intelligence too. Just wait 50,000 years dogs might start being spiritual just as humans stop.

 

[Boss]

You could be right god is energy but we just call it energy. Animals have emotion and intelligence too. Just wait 50,000 years dogs might start being spiritual just as humans stop.

I didn't say God is energy and we just call it energy. I gave energy as an example of something you can relate to that god would be more like than the human incarnation you've imagined. It's an attempt to get you to think outside the box a little on your rigid concept of God.

Animals do have emotion and intelligence too... they don't have spirituality. I doubt that 50k years things will "start being" spiritual if they aren't already. You seem to still be operating under the baseless assumption that things create spirituality.

And we've already covered humans abandoning their spirituality. I know that it gives you some kind of sick perverted hope to believe you're doing some good, but humans will never abandon their spirituality.... they can't. As Freud pointed out and as nature has demonstrated, humans are intrinsically tied to spiritual nature. Like it or not, it's who we are, how we are and what we are.

 

[orogenicman]

Let's start over. Let's say I'm raised by two parents who dont tell me about god but teach me right from wrong. You meet me and bring up god. I say who? And you say what?

I don't understand your point. If you were a human raised in captivity without any social interaction of other humans and devoid of any teaching of language and such... would you know things? Could you be taught things? Does the fact that you don't know things make you less of a human? Does it have anything to do with your capacity to learn? What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

Sigmund Freud once stated, "If there was no God, man would have to create God." Some will take that quote out of context and say "ahaa! he's saying man had to create god!" But that's not what he is talking about. Freud is discussing the nature of the human psyche. How our minds work as highly-intelligent, imaginative and creative creatures driven by our emotions. We simply would not survive without something to regulate our morals because our minds are too much for nature to bear. The human psyche would have destroyed everything if we operated on sheer animal instinct. Our morals, a spiritually inspired thing, are the reason humans have been able to advance and thrive with nature.

Sorry you don't understand. The point is you don't need God to be a moral person. And Freud was an idiot.

Right, because history is not full of the devout who were anything but moral.

 

[Boss]

...haven't convinced any non believers yet.

And I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. Why do you and Hollie continue to believe you are so important that I need to convince you of something? How can I ever convince people who have made their mind up they will never be convinced? I wish, if you can't comprehend another thing I say, you would at least comprehend that I have no reason or motivation to change your mind.

See... MY God is not the Christian God. I don't get "crowns of gold" or whatever, for winning your soul over to God. I am not commanded by any dogma to go out and "convert" you and others who don't believe. I don't really give a solitary shit, to be honest. You are free to believe whatever you please.

My purpose here is to set the record straight when you all start trying to make false claims about science and human spirituality. I argue for possibilities while you try to establish conclusions. I leave doors open while you attempt to close them.

 

[Boss]

Right, because history is not full of the devout who were anything but moral.

Doesn't matter. Without human spirituality, there is no basis for human morality.

You can concoct something, but it doesn't withstand any objective scrutiny. The laws of nature, survival and natural selection are not morally-based.

 

[Hollie]

...haven't convinced any non believers yet.

And I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. Why do you and Hollie continue to believe you are so important that I need to convince you of something? How can I ever convince people who have made their mind up they will never be convinced? I wish, if you can't comprehend another thing I say, you would at least comprehend that I have no reason or motivation to change your mind.

See... MY God is not the Christian God. I don't get "crowns of gold" or whatever, for winning your soul over to God. I am not commanded by any dogma to go out and "convert" you and others who don't believe. I don't really give a solitary shit, to be honest. You are free to believe whatever you please.

My purpose here is to set the record straight when you all start trying to make false claims about science and human spirituality. I argue for possibilities while you try to establish conclusions. I leave doors open while you attempt to close them.

Who are you kidding? You are the most aggressive and heavy handed religious salesman on the board. What's comical is that for all the time you spend hurling your religion around, still no converts.

 

[Hollie]

Right, because history is not full of the devout who were anything but moral.

Doesn't matter. Without human spirituality, there is no basis for human morality.

You can concoct something, but it doesn't withstand any objective scrutiny. The laws of nature, survival and natural selection are not morally-based.

Your silly "no morality without religion" has been thoroughly debunked as simply the ravings of the religiously crippled.

 

[Boss]

Sweety, the only thing you've "debunked" is the last guy stupid enough to crawl in bed with you, probably when you spread your legs.

You can't debunk my argument because you can't go back in time and test your hypothesis. All you can do is flap your gums and hope no one notices it's producing the same stench as when you spread your legs.

Without foundational basis, human morality doesn't fly. At the fundamental level, you have to possess a reason to be moral. You don't have any reason that trumps nature. Any reason to be moral you can think up, nature trumps it.

I have heard this silly nonsense argument made for years... Oh, man realizes the benefits of mutual cooperation! Bullshit! Man, minus morals, realizes he can kill you and take your shit a lot easier than mutually cooperating with you.

 

[Hollie]

Sweety, the only thing you've "debunked" is the last guy stupid enough to crawl in bed with you, probably when you spread your legs.

You can't debunk my argument because you can't go back in time and test your hypothesis. All you can do is flap your gums and hope no one notices it's producing the same stench as when you spread your legs.

Without foundational basis, human morality doesn't fly. At the fundamental level, you have to possess a reason to be moral. You don't have any reason that trumps nature. Any reason to be moral you can think up, nature trumps it.

I have heard this silly nonsense argument made for years... Oh, man realizes the benefits of mutual cooperation! Bullshit! Man, minus morals, realizes he can kill you and take your shit a lot easier than mutually cooperating with you.

Well, yes. You're a crude, vulgar little boy who is angry that his sales commission from the ICR is going to be cut for lack of converts.

You should actually read your bibles to learn that morality is not the province of your religion.

 

[Boss]

No foundational or logical basis for non-spiritual morality.

 

[sealybobo]

"Has science proved there is no God?"

Science can't 'prove' that something that never existed in the first place doesn't now exist.

Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with. The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion, and as a consequence the argument fails to persuade.

Circular reasoning - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

out haven't convinced any non believers yet. You could be right god is energy but we just call it energy. Animals have emotion and intelligence too. Just wait 50,000 years dogs might start being spiritual just as humans stop.

...haven't convinced any non believers yet.

And I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. Why do you and Hollie continue to believe you are so important that I need to convince you of something? How can I ever convince people who have made their mind up they will never be convinced? I wish, if you can't comprehend another thing I say, you would at least comprehend that I have no reason or motivation to change your mind.

See... MY God is not the Christian God. I don't get "crowns of gold" or whatever, for winning your soul over to God. I am not commanded by any dogma to go out and "convert" you and others who don't believe. I don't really give a solitary shit, to be honest. You are free to believe whatever you please.

My purpose here is to set the record straight when you all start trying to make false claims about science and human spirituality. I argue for possibilities while you try to establish conclusions. I leave doors open while you attempt to close them.

Who are you kidding? You are the most aggressive and heavy handed religious salesman on the board. What's comical is that for all the time you spend hurling your religion around, still no converts.

I often wonder when someomys going to come in and save me from boss.

Heres my story. I think usmb has cost me jobs so I won't log in from work and all I got is my smart phone so I can't go into great detail explaining it in great detail using just my thumbs.

But isnt it the thumb that makes us great or different or special?

 

[Hollie]

No foundational or logical basis for non-spiritual morality.

Your intellectual limitations are your own waking nightmare to deal with.

You can't even define the "spiritual" slogan you hurl around so your usual "... because I say so" argument is pointless and time wasting.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm drunk. Its poker night. I sold my seat for $10 and people are tipping me $1 to $5 for serving. I think I'm onto something.

 

[sealybobo]

Right, because history is not full of the devout who were anything but moral.

Doesn't matter. Without human spirituality, there is no basis for human morality.

You can concoct something, but it doesn't withstand any objective scrutiny. The laws of nature, survival and natural selection are not morally-based.

Your silly "no morality without religion" has been thoroughly debunked as simply the ravings of the religiously crippled.

Give him a chance. It might be true that primitive man needed or was benefitted by religion. Doesnt mean evolved educated man needs it

 

[sealybobo]

Boss thinks because primitive men all came up with god it must be true. But I listen to my dads arguments on how there must be "something" and he makes a lot of bosses weak arguments.

I gotta go. A cat just showed up.

 

[orogenicman]

Right, because history is not full of the devout who were anything but moral.

Doesn't matter. Without human spirituality, there is no basis for human morality.

You can concoct something, but it doesn't withstand any objective scrutiny. The laws of nature, survival and natural selection are not morally-based.

Your silly "no morality without religion" has been thoroughly debunked as simply the ravings of the religiously crippled.

Give him a chance. It might be true that primitive man needed or was benefitted by religion. Doesnt mean evolved educated man needs it

It may also be true that belief in god is a throwback from our primate past when we were filled with fear of angry alpha males.

 

[Boss]

It may also be true that belief in god is a throwback from our primate past when we were filled with fear of angry alpha males.

This can only be true if "belief in god" were effective in eliminating such fears. Otherwise, there is no reason for humans to retain the attribute. When we collectively rationalize, for all our existence, a key fundamental behavior like spirituality, there has to be something to it. We gain some benefit from it at a fundamental level. These are not superficial and meaningless things or spirituality would not be important.

 

[Boss]

Boss thinks because primitive men all came up with god it must be true.

No, Boss does not think man "came up with" anything. YOU are the one who made that argument and you never backed it up. Man has always been spiritual, since man has been man. If you can offer valid scientific evidence this is not true, do it!

 

[Politico]

Let's start over. Let's say I'm raised by two parents who dont tell me about god but teach me right from wrong. You meet me and bring up god. I say who? And you say what?

I don't understand your point. If you were a human raised in captivity without any social interaction of other humans and devoid of any teaching of language and such... would you know things? Could you be taught things? Does the fact that you don't know things make you less of a human? Does it have anything to do with your capacity to learn? What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

Sigmund Freud once stated, "If there was no God, man would have to create God." Some will take that quote out of context and say "ahaa! he's saying man had to create god!" But that's not what he is talking about. Freud is discussing the nature of the human psyche. How our minds work as highly-intelligent, imaginative and creative creatures driven by our emotions. We simply would not survive without something to regulate our morals because our minds are too much for nature to bear. The human psyche would have destroyed everything if we operated on sheer animal instinct. Our morals, a spiritually inspired thing, are the reason humans have been able to advance and thrive with nature.

Sorry you don't understand. The point is you don't need God to be a moral person. And Freud was an idiot.

Yes... the father of psychoanalysis was an idiot and you're genius! This should demonstrate for any open-minded person, that you are fully prepared to reject any evidence presented and declare the presenter an idiot if what they have to say contradicts your disbelief in God. You are not interested in the truth, you are only interested in protecting your disbelief in God.. at ALL costs!

This is a question for all of you who aren't aboard the Magic Bus with Neil "Nutty Professor" Tyson and his hoard of Atheist Scientists in outright rejection of God.... How quickly do you believe these people would completely abandon science if science accidentally discovered proof for God?
...I'm betting, less than a Planck Unit.

The point is you don't need God to be a moral person.

And if you were ever successful at completely wiping out the concept of God from the minds of mankind, you would discover very quickly how flawed this opinion is.

Ultimately, when you remove the authority of something greater than man, there is no foundational logical basis for human morality. There is nothing to hold the immoral accountable. In such an environment, those who cling to morality in spite of having no foundational basis would become the idiots of humanity-- destined for their demise at the hands of those who aren't handicapped with moral constraint.

Thank you. Compared to him yes I am.

 

[Hollie]

It may also be true that belief in god is a throwback from our primate past when we were filled with fear of angry alpha males.

This can only be true if "belief in god" were effective in eliminating such fears. Otherwise, there is no reason for humans to retain the attribute. When we collectively rationalize, for all our existence, a key fundamental behavior like spirituality, there has to be something to it. We gain some benefit from it at a fundamental level. These are not superficial and meaningless things or spirituality would not be important.

There is no "key fundamental behavior like spirituality".

You simply repeat these slogans as though others are supposed to accept your "....because I say so" arguments as true.

You continue to associate fear, superstition and tradition with your religious fundamentalist claims to "spiritual'ness".