Hate crime?

[catzmeow]

Apparently, he got it from the perpetrators' testimony:

New Details Emerge in Matthew Shepard Murder - ABC News

 

[catzmeow]

He did not give me an example of a gay person murdered for being gay. So why exactly is a response necessary?

Because the same characteristics would attach to a so-called hate crime. Even the Shepard crime was not as clear-cut as gay advocates suggest, apparently.

 

[Nik]

Apparently, he got it from the perpetrators' testimony:

New Details Emerge in Matthew Shepard Murder - ABC News

*sigh*

They went into a gay bar, robbed him, tortured him, then left him tied to a fence to die. That they robbed him doesn't make it a simple robbery, and that they went, specifically, to a gay bar to get someone who was gay, makes it a hate crime specifically against gays.

I'm sure he knows those facts. Exactly what reason would he have for claiming that it was "merely" a robbery, and not people intent of murdering a homosexual?

 

[catzmeow]

Helping fuel the gay hate crime theory were statements made to police and the media by Kristen Price, McKinney's girlfriend. (Price was charged with felony accessory after-the-fact to first-degree murder. She later pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of misdemeanor interference with police officers.)

Price now says that at the time of the crime she thought things would go easier for McKinney if his violence were seen as a panic reaction to an unwanted gay sexual advance.

But today, Price tells Vargas the initial statements she made were not true and tells Vargas that McKinney's motive was money and drugs. "I don't think it was a hate crime at all. I never did," she said.

Former Laramie Police Detective Ben Fritzen, one of the lead investigators in the case, also believed robbery was the primary motive. "Matthew Shepard's sexual preference or sexual orientation certainly wasn't the motive in the homicide," he said.

"If it wasn't Shepard, they would have found another easy target. What it came down to really is drugs and money and two punks that were out looking for it," Fritzen said.

Asked directly whether he targeted and attacked Shepard because he was gay, McKinney told Vargas, "No. I did not. ... I would say it wasn't a hate crime. All I wanted to do was beat him up and rob him."

But if the attackers were just trying to rob someone to get a drug fix, why did they beat Shepard so savagely?

Rerucha attributes McKinney's rage and his savage beating of Shepard to his drug abuse. "The methamphetamine just fueled to this point where there was no control. It was a horrible, horrible, horrible murder. It was a murder that was once again driven by drugs," Rerucha said.

Dr. Rick Rawson, a professor at UCLA who has studied the link between methamphetamine and violence, tells "20/20" the drug can trigger episodes of violent behavior.

"In the first weeks after you've stopped using it, the kinds of triggers that can set off an episode are completely unpredictable. It can be: you say a word with the wrong inflection, you touch someone on the shoulder. It's completely unpredictable as to what will set somebody off" Rawson said.

"If Aaron McKinney had not become involved with methamphetamine, Matthew Shepard would be alive today," Rerucha said.

Having worked with tweakers, I think there may be some truth to the methamphetamine connection. Meth makes people crazy.

 

[catzmeow]

I'm sure he knows those facts. Exactly what reason would he have for claiming that it was "merely" a robbery, and not people intent of murdering a homosexual?

Apparently, the same reason that the lead detective on the case concluded the same thing.

But, who needs facts when you've already made up your mind, right, Nik?

 

[Nik]

Helping fuel the gay hate crime theory were statements made to police and the media by Kristen Price, McKinney's girlfriend. (Price was charged with felony accessory after-the-fact to first-degree murder. She later pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of misdemeanor interference with police officers.)

Price now says that at the time of the crime she thought things would go easier for McKinney if his violence were seen as a panic reaction to an unwanted gay sexual advance.

But today, Price tells Vargas the initial statements she made were not true and tells Vargas that McKinney's motive was money and drugs. "I don't think it was a hate crime at all. I never did," she said.

Former Laramie Police Detective Ben Fritzen, one of the lead investigators in the case, also believed robbery was the primary motive. "Matthew Shepard's sexual preference or sexual orientation certainly wasn't the motive in the homicide," he said.

"If it wasn't Shepard, they would have found another easy target. What it came down to really is drugs and money and two punks that were out looking for it," Fritzen said.

Asked directly whether he targeted and attacked Shepard because he was gay, McKinney told Vargas, "No. I did not. ... I would say it wasn't a hate crime. All I wanted to do was beat him up and rob him."

But if the attackers were just trying to rob someone to get a drug fix, why did they beat Shepard so savagely?

Rerucha attributes McKinney's rage and his savage beating of Shepard to his drug abuse. "The methamphetamine just fueled to this point where there was no control. It was a horrible, horrible, horrible murder. It was a murder that was once again driven by drugs," Rerucha said.

Dr. Rick Rawson, a professor at UCLA who has studied the link between methamphetamine and violence, tells "20/20" the drug can trigger episodes of violent behavior.

"In the first weeks after you've stopped using it, the kinds of triggers that can set off an episode are completely unpredictable. It can be: you say a word with the wrong inflection, you touch someone on the shoulder. It's completely unpredictable as to what will set somebody off" Rawson said.

"If Aaron McKinney had not become involved with methamphetamine, Matthew Shepard would be alive today," Rerucha said.

Having worked with tweakers, I think there may be some truth to the methamphetamine connection. Meth makes people crazy.

Their girlfriends testified that they weren't on drugs when they kill Shephard.

Next?

 

[Nik]

I'm sure he knows those facts. Exactly what reason would he have for claiming that it was "merely" a robbery, and not people intent of murdering a homosexual?

Apparently, the same reason that the lead detective on the case concluded the same thing.

But, who needs facts when you've already made up your mind, right, Nik?

I, unlike you, actually know the facts. I didn't need to do research to know that they robbed Shephard, as well as beating and torturing him. Oh, and by the way, the shit you spewed before about both murderers serving the "max possible sentence" was incorrect.

And yeah...the robbers didn't kill him because he was gay. They just used a "gay panic" defense at trial . But no...it had nothing to do with his homosexuality at all.

The shit some people will believe. Christ.

 

[catzmeow]

Their girlfriends testified that they weren't on drugs when they kill Shephard.

Next?

And now they've recanted. You claimed that presuming that another poster was a homophobe was the only reasonable conclusion based upon calling this case a robbery. Is the Laramie police investigator ALSO a homophobe?

My point to you is that you can't assume someone is a homophobe simply because they have different information, and come to a different conclusion, than you do.

 

[Nik]

Their girlfriends testified that they weren't on drugs when they kill Shephard.

Next?

And now they've recanted. You claimed that presuming that another poster was a homophobe was the only reasonable conclusion based upon calling this case a robbery. Is the Laramie police investigator ALSO a homophobe?

My point to you is that you can't assume someone is a homophobe simply because they have different information, and come to a different conclusion, than you do.

They also testified that McKinnery and Henderson went out specifically looking for someone gay. In court. Under oath.

This shit was in Wyoming in 1998. Yeah...it was just a robbery

 

[catzmeow]

I, unlike you, actually know the facts. I didn't need to do research to know that they robbed Shephard, as well as beating and torturing him. Oh, and by the way, the shit you spewed before about both murderers serving the "max possible sentence" was incorrect.

Both defendants were sentenced to two consecutive life sentences, ensuring they will do life in prison without the possibility of parole. (LWOP)

Hoping a Wyoming jury would be sympathetic to gay panic did not pay off. McKinney was found guilty and wound up with two life sentences, assuring he'll spend the rest of his life in prison, the same sentence received by his accomplice Russell Henderson

. (from the linked article).

And yeah...the robbers didn't kill him because he was gay. They just used a "gay panic" defense at trial .

From the linked article:

O'Connor had known Aaron McKinney for years. In flush times, McKinney partied in O'Connor's limos, and, in fact, McKinney and his girlfriend lived for a while in an apartment on O'Connor's property.

O'Connor says he never heard McKinney express any anti-gay attitudes. In his interview with Vargas, O'Connor reveals his belief that McKinney is bisexual. "I know of an instance where he had a three-way, two guys and one gal," he said. "Because he did it with me."

O'Connor added, "I know he's bisexual. There ain't no doubt in my mind. He is bisexual."

McKinney's former girlfriend Price says she now believes that as well. "He was always into trying to talk me into having a three-way with one of his guy friends," she said.

In her prison interview with McKinney, Vargas asked McKinney directly whether he had had any sexual encounters with men. McKinney said no.

Displaying a strong aversion to homosexual sex was a tactic McKinney tried at his trial. His lawyers developed a so-called "gay panic defense," claiming homosexual abuse McKinney suffered as a child caused him to overreact to a sexual advance by Shepard and triggered the violent attack.

Yeah. You know.

 

[catzmeow]

They also testified that McKinnery and Henderson went out specifically looking for someone gay. In court. Under oath.

This shit was in Wyoming in 1998. Yeah...it was just a robbery

O'Connor had known Aaron McKinney for years. In flush times, McKinney partied in O'Connor's limos, and, in fact, McKinney and his girlfriend lived for a while in an apartment on O'Connor's property.

O'Connor says he never heard McKinney express any anti-gay attitudes. In his interview with Vargas, O'Connor reveals his belief that McKinney is bisexual. "I know of an instance where he had a three-way, two guys and one gal," he said. "Because he did it with me."

O'Connor added, "I know he's bisexual. There ain't no doubt in my mind. He is bisexual."

I know this is going to shock you, Nik, but people lie, all the time, in court, under oath.

 

[Nik]

I, unlike you, actually know the facts. I didn't need to do research to know that they robbed Shephard, as well as beating and torturing him. Oh, and by the way, the shit you spewed before about both murderers serving the "max possible sentence" was incorrect.

Both defendants were sentenced to two consecutive life sentences, ensuring they will do life in prison without the possibility of parole. (LWOP)

Hoping a Wyoming jury would be sympathetic to gay panic did not pay off. McKinney was found guilty and wound up with two life sentences, assuring he'll spend the rest of his life in prison, the same sentence received by his accomplice Russell Henderson

. (from the linked article).

And yeah...the robbers didn't kill him because he was gay. They just used a "gay panic" defense at trial .

From the linked article:

O'Connor had known Aaron McKinney for years. In flush times, McKinney partied in O'Connor's limos, and, in fact, McKinney and his girlfriend lived for a while in an apartment on O'Connor's property.

O'Connor says he never heard McKinney express any anti-gay attitudes. In his interview with Vargas, O'Connor reveals his belief that McKinney is bisexual. "I know of an instance where he had a three-way, two guys and one gal," he said. "Because he did it with me."

O'Connor added, "I know he's bisexual. There ain't no doubt in my mind. He is bisexual."

McKinney's former girlfriend Price says she now believes that as well. "He was always into trying to talk me into having a three-way with one of his guy friends," she said.

In her prison interview with McKinney, Vargas asked McKinney directly whether he had had any sexual encounters with men. McKinney said no.

Displaying a strong aversion to homosexual sex was a tactic McKinney tried at his trial. His lawyers developed a so-called "gay panic defense," claiming homosexual abuse McKinney suffered as a child caused him to overreact to a sexual advance by Shepard and triggered the violent attack.

Yeah. You know.

One got the punishment with a possibility of parole, one did not. And McKinneys sexual orientation is irrelevant. See Ted Haggard and numerous other virulently anti-gay, gay Republicans.

 

[catzmeow]

One got the punishment with a possibility of parole, one did not.

Feel free to prove this comment.

You've brought your opinions you've spouted out of your ass, I've at least tried to support my arguments with evidence.

Pwned.

 

[Sky Dancer]

One got the punishment with a possibility of parole, one did not.

Feel free to prove this comment.

You've brought your opinions you've spouted out of your ass, I've at least tried to support my arguments with evidence.

Pwned.

Henderson pleaded guilty on April 5, 1999, and agreed to testify against McKinney to avoid the death penalty; he received two consecutive life sentences. (which has the possiblity of parole--however unlikely that seems). He may be eligible for parole after serving two back to back life sentences in 14 years.

The jury in McKinney's trial found him guilty of felony murder. As it began to deliberate on the death penalty, Shepard's parents brokered a deal, resulting in McKinney receiving two consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole.

 

[catzmeow]

Henderson pleaded guilty on April 5, 1999, and agreed to testify against McKinney to avoid the death penalty; he received two consecutive life sentences. (which has the possiblity of parole--however unlikely that seems). He may be eligible for parole after serving two back to back life sentences in 14 years.

Two consecutive life sentences does not equal parole. And eligibility for parole does not equal parole. A hate crimes charge on top of that would not equal additional time served.

 

[del]

I'm sure he knows those facts. Exactly what reason would he have for claiming that it was "merely" a robbery, and not people intent of murdering a homosexual?

Apparently, the same reason that the lead detective on the case concluded the same thing.

But, who needs facts when you've already made up your mind, right, Nik?

I, unlike you, actually know the facts. I didn't need to do research to know that they robbed Shephard, as well as beating and torturing him. Oh, and by the way, the shit you spewed before about both murderers serving the "max possible sentence" was incorrect.

And yeah...the robbers didn't kill him because he was gay. They just used a "gay panic" defense at trial . But no...it had nothing to do with his homosexuality at all.

The shit some people will believe. Christ.

you wouldn't know a fact if it handed you a calling card and bit you on the ass.

are you the friend sky dancer brings along to make her look smart?

thought so.

tough break

 

[del]

One got the punishment with a possibility of parole, one did not.

Feel free to prove this comment.

You've brought your opinions you've spouted out of your ass, I've at least tried to support my arguments with evidence.

Pwned.

Henderson pleaded guilty on April 5, 1999, and agreed to testify against McKinney to avoid the death penalty; he received two consecutive life sentences. (which has the possiblity of parole--however unlikely that seems). He may be eligible for parole after serving two back to back life sentences in 14 years.

The jury in McKinney's trial found him guilty of felony murder. As it began to deliberate on the death penalty, Shepard's parents brokered a deal, resulting in McKinney receiving two consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole.

the good thing about you being a middle aged lesbian is that you presumably haven't reproduced.

i've met more intelligent garden implements.

 

[JBeukema]

They went into a gay bar, robbed him, tortured him, then left him tied to a fence to die. That they robbed him doesn't make it a simple robbery, and that they went, specifically, to a gay bar to get someone who was gay, makes it a hate crime specifically against gays.

Or what they presumed would be an easy target

I, unlike you, actually know the facts.

-because he was there, holding Matthew Sheppard down and screaming 'DIE YOU FUCKING FAGGOT!'

I didn't need to do research

Because he'll never accept new information

 

[Nik]

One got the punishment with a possibility of parole, one did not.

Feel free to prove this comment.

You've brought your opinions you've spouted out of your ass, I've at least tried to support my arguments with evidence.

Pwned.

Try Wiki, dumbshit. If you knew how to read, I wouldn't need to present you with the facts, repeatedly.

 

[dj defkawn]

Lilo you must seriously be on drugs or something. A murder is wrong no matter what the premise. Also people as a young black person, if I committed a racially motivated violent crime against a white person, that'd be every bit as much a hate crime as if the shoe was on the other foot.