Have Republicans flip-flopped on "Trickle Down"?

[Wilbur Right]

boss,

You really believe that a person lets say making 80k a year wouldnt accept a job paying 200k a year BECAUSE they would be in a higher tax bracket?

LMAO. Boss, you are that stupid but the rest of us working folks are not.

Bos says; NONONO dont offer me that high paying job, my taxes will go up.

You are ignorant dude.

Well... I personally know someone who was making $750k per year in salary. When the top marginal rates were raised after the Bush Tax cuts, his company restructured his package. He now makes $150k per year in salary but they pay for virtually every living expense he has, housing, food, clothing, cars, etc. It's not salary, he doesn't have to report it as income. To the company, it's a tax deductible expense.

I know another guy who owns his own company. He was paying himself a yearly salary of $300k, now he pays himself $150k and the rest goes back into his business. He doesn't NEED the money, it's not as important to him as avoiding the taxes. He had rather reinvest the money back into his business than claim it as personal income. And these are not just isolated incidents or trivial anecdotes, it's happening all across America with virtually everyone who falls in that highest tax bracket.

That is why, when the top marginal rate was 91%, virtually no one claimed that much personal income... it was foolish. You have to realize something here... Wealthy people don't need to earn incomes. They are already wealthy. You and I need to earn incomes to pay our bills, we don't have billions of dollars in securities and shelters. Trying to punish the wealthy by raising their income taxes is like trying to punish a hippie by taxing baths. It just doesn't work.

thats great boss. Problem you have is for every two people that you know that decided to avoid paying income taxes by using the system, I know 20 people who were so glad their income went up substantially and paying additional income taxes on large income gains was not a problem.

I know a person that makes around a million dollars a year. Never ever have I heard them complain about taxes. Seems like at that level, for some anyway, the need to complain about income taxes just isnt as strong as for some.

I mean, if you cant prosper at 50k a month net income, whats you gonna do?
Quit your job. Go on welfare cause them welfare folks live so well and pay no taxes. LMAO.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Boss can you really look at ACA and tell me corporations didn't have greater influence than "individuals"?

Dear.... Corporations did not vote for a President who ran on the promise of ACA, nor did they cast votes in Congress for a 2,000-page bill that no one read.

Dear Boss they didn't need to. They got a bill passed that included the individual mandates, forcing all citizens to buy insurance. The President couldn't remove that individual mandate because he made a promise to the insurance companies to keep it in. So he listened to the insurance companies, gave them trillions of dollars they asked for, but won't listen to individual citizens saying NO to these terms and charging us the fines if we don't comply.

How did corporations get a bill passed? Mind control? Alien superpowers?

AGAIN... Corporations don't vote... they've never voted.

Are you being purposefully stupid? Or willfully stupid.

Google lobbyists. If you can google that is.

 

[Boss]

...but won't listen to individual citizens saying NO to these terms and charging us the fines if we don't comply.

Ted Cruz stood on the floor for two days trying to get them to postpone this mandate and got called every name in the book... is still being ridiculed for that. Not a single Republican voted for ACA. Single Payer wasn't included because there wasn't enough DEMOCRAT support for it. Republicans didn't support ANY of it.

 

[Siete]

and you not being a mod, you just crossed the same line in the sand..

my apology to the board mods, AND CRYBABY PARTISAN HACKS.

 

[Boss]

boss,

You really believe that a person lets say making 80k a year wouldnt accept a job paying 200k a year BECAUSE they would be in a higher tax bracket?

LMAO. Boss, you are that stupid but the rest of us working folks are not.

Bos says; NONONO dont offer me that high paying job, my taxes will go up.

You are ignorant dude.

Well... I personally know someone who was making $750k per year in salary. When the top marginal rates were raised after the Bush Tax cuts, his company restructured his package. He now makes $150k per year in salary but they pay for virtually every living expense he has, housing, food, clothing, cars, etc. It's not salary, he doesn't have to report it as income. To the company, it's a tax deductible expense.

I know another guy who owns his own company. He was paying himself a yearly salary of $300k, now he pays himself $150k and the rest goes back into his business. He doesn't NEED the money, it's not as important to him as avoiding the taxes. He had rather reinvest the money back into his business than claim it as personal income. And these are not just isolated incidents or trivial anecdotes, it's happening all across America with virtually everyone who falls in that highest tax bracket.

That is why, when the top marginal rate was 91%, virtually no one claimed that much personal income... it was foolish. You have to realize something here... Wealthy people don't need to earn incomes. They are already wealthy. You and I need to earn incomes to pay our bills, we don't have billions of dollars in securities and shelters. Trying to punish the wealthy by raising their income taxes is like trying to punish a hippie by taxing baths. It just doesn't work.

thats great boss. Problem you have is for every two people that you know that decided to avoid paying income taxes by using the system, I know 20 people who were so glad their income went up substantially and paying additional income taxes on large income gains was not a problem.

I know a person that makes around a million dollars a year. Never ever have I heard them complain about taxes. Seems like at that level, for some anyway, the need to complain about income taxes just isnt as strong as for some.

I mean, if you cant prosper at 50k a month net income, whats you gonna do?
Quit your job. Go on welfare cause them welfare folks live so well and pay no taxes. LMAO.

I doubt that you actually know anyone who makes over $250k a year. I've explained how it works and you're simply ignoring my explanation and continuing to espouse your ignorance. While it's true that some people don't care about taxes, others do. Whenever you tax ANYTHING, you get less of it. Human nature.

 

[Boss]

Boss can you really look at ACA and tell me corporations didn't have greater influence than "individuals"?

Dear.... Corporations did not vote for a President who ran on the promise of ACA, nor did they cast votes in Congress for a 2,000-page bill that no one read.

Dear Boss they didn't need to. They got a bill passed that included the individual mandates, forcing all citizens to buy insurance. The President couldn't remove that individual mandate because he made a promise to the insurance companies to keep it in. So he listened to the insurance companies, gave them trillions of dollars they asked for, but won't listen to individual citizens saying NO to these terms and charging us the fines if we don't comply.

How did corporations get a bill passed? Mind control? Alien superpowers?

AGAIN... Corporations don't vote... they've never voted.

Are you being purposefully stupid? Or willfully stupid.

Google lobbyists. If you can google that is.

Well... last I checked, Lobbyists have ZERO votes in the Senate and House on any bill.

 

[bripat9643]

I dont think the GOP stands for anything except rape, cheap labor, and a few billionaires.

I thought that was the Clinton agenda.

 

[bripat9643]

I dont think the GOP stands for anything except rape, cheap labor, and a few billionaires.

Are you ever embarrassed by the stupid shit you post?
Rape?

Seek medical attention

They were talking about "legitimate" rape. The GOP is experts on that.

Democrats are experts on actual rape.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I dont think the GOP stands for anything except rape, cheap labor, and a few billionaires.

Are you ever embarrassed by the stupid shit you post?
Rape?

Seek medical attention

Sadly, women will be seeking medical attention just like the women of germany.

Buy yourself a chastity belt & stfu.

Rape, incest & other such topics are not something to be tossed around as accusations like candy on Halloween you stupid bitch.

 

[rdean]

Was it Kasich or Rafael Edwardo Cruz who stood up and complained about the income gap. About how corporations are getting a free ride? And then a minute later, someone else says that we need to make corporate tax zero so the have the money to create jobs because they are the job creators. With a widening income gap, why do they need more money? Republican economics only make sense to Republicans.

 

[rdean]

I dont think the GOP stands for anything except rape, cheap labor, and a few billionaires.

Are you ever embarrassed by the stupid shit you post?
Rape?

Seek medical attention

They were talking about "legitimate" rape. The GOP is experts on that.

Democrats are experts on actual rape.

Ah, but is it "legitimate"?

 

[emilynghiem]

Boss can you really look at ACA and tell me corporations didn't have greater influence than "individuals"?

Dear.... Corporations did not vote for a President who ran on the promise of ACA, nor did they cast votes in Congress for a 2,000-page bill that no one read.

Dear Boss they didn't need to. They got a bill passed that included the individual mandates, forcing all citizens to buy insurance. The President couldn't remove that individual mandate because he made a promise to the insurance companies to keep it in. So he listened to the insurance companies, gave them trillions of dollars they asked for, but won't listen to individual citizens saying NO to these terms and charging us the fines if we don't comply.

How did corporations get a bill passed? Mind control? Alien superpowers?

AGAIN... Corporations don't vote... they've never voted.

Dear Boss I guess you're playing Devil's Advocate and want me to
SPELL OUT THE OBVIOUS
1. The corporate insurance companies have more collective leverage than the same number of individuals.

EX: AIG that got the bailouts from Washington just happened to be one of the major property owners and interests in downtown Houston
putting pressure on city officials to favor the developers in letting them use taxpayer money to seize land instead of giving that help to nonprofits
and churches to expand their ownership. Coincidence?

2. So when it came to the ACA mandates and who the President bowed to and which interests got ignored or overruled
A. when the citizens objected to the individual mandates, and DEMAND that be removed, that gets overruled
B. when the corporate insurance companies DEMAND that the mandates remain, the President incorporates that into the contract
This is not weighing the interests equally

Boss I guess you should be glad you don't live in a historic BLACK church neighborhood like I do,
where the corporate interests have always gotten their way, because they pull the strings as to who gets elected to City Council and Mayor.
by collective INFLUENCE, by collective FINANCES, by collective image and perception in the MEDIA.
It takes a combination of all these to push the % needed to sway if not control the election.

Not to mention the influence in COURTS because of the professional ties with lawyers, judges and politicians.

Boss perhaps it is because you are such a determined independent thinker,you cannot image people like sheep just going where
the crowd points. But unfortunately we don't have enough people thinking for themselves as you do naturally and with self-detremination.

We need more people like you, and then this collective peer pressure would not have such a BRAIN WASHING effect.

I cannot even get my own friends to back me up on this idea of demanding reimbursement for millions of dollars our
City Govt wasted on unconstitutional ordinances that were bound to fail, but cost millions more to fight them.
If we all stood up, yes, that would become the norm.
Big corporate interests would not be ASSUMED to always get their way, so roll over and play dead and let them have at it.

But so many people give up and won't stand for our equal rights, we let bullies get away with abuses of govt that
TAXPAYERS HAVE TO PAY FOR. We are getting rolled left and right.

So that's why OCCUPY started, and the TEA PARTY to try to show SOME COLLECTIVE presence as big as the crony bullies
we are fighting. We can't just fight as tiny ants, but have to organize whole anthills or we're not taken seriously.

I guess it is because you do stand up for yourself, and don't consider these other people having bigger advantages over you,
that you don't understand how ppl can fall victim to this or blame it.

I am guessing you still frame it as blaming the individuals for not standing up more?

OK I get that, but in the meantime Boss if the corporate games have already spent
* several trillion of taxpayer money on big war contracts and nobody has gone after the contested ones to get the public paid back
* trillions to pay off insurance companies while forcing mandates on citizens to either buy insurance or pay fines to govt at a rising rate
* billions bailing out companies who can lobby Washington, while, for example, the 24 billion cost to the public for govt shutdown hasn't been paid
back to us because nobody is lobbying for that

Then IN THE MEANTIME (ie while we wait to vote someone else in)
WE ARE STILL PAYING THE BILLS WHILE CORPORATIONS BENEFIT OFF TAXPAYERS

So what part of that you do not understand, I don't know.
Either you think there's nothing anyone can do, so you aren't affected.
Or you think voting is enough, and if people don't have candidates to vote for who can change this, too bad.

 

[emilynghiem]

Boss can you really look at ACA and tell me corporations didn't have greater influence than "individuals"?

Dear.... Corporations did not vote for a President who ran on the promise of ACA, nor did they cast votes in Congress for a 2,000-page bill that no one read.

Durr Boss ... corporations throughout the medical industry fully supported the ACA... take insurance corporations for instance.

Oh, no doubt... they WROTE most of it! But Democrats supported this, Nancy Pelosi rammed it through Congress and your elected representatives voted on it. The corporations didn't have a vote.

Boss the corporate lobbies helped write it, to make sure they got what they wanted in it.
Boss are you kidding me, you didn't know that this ACA got passed because of the insurance corporate interests and lobbies?
My friend on both the far right and far left are actually in agreement on that. They won't team up because they disagree what to change it too.
But it is uniformly understood that the current ACA mandates benefit the insurance companies who made sure they would still profit off the
deal or cry wah wah wah to govt and get paid trillions for their costs they claimed they needed.

 

[Boss]

Boss can you really look at ACA and tell me corporations didn't have greater influence than "individuals"?

Dear.... Corporations did not vote for a President who ran on the promise of ACA, nor did they cast votes in Congress for a 2,000-page bill that no one read.

Dear Boss they didn't need to. They got a bill passed that included the individual mandates, forcing all citizens to buy insurance. The President couldn't remove that individual mandate because he made a promise to the insurance companies to keep it in. So he listened to the insurance companies, gave them trillions of dollars they asked for, but won't listen to individual citizens saying NO to these terms and charging us the fines if we don't comply.

How did corporations get a bill passed? Mind control? Alien superpowers?

AGAIN... Corporations don't vote... they've never voted.

Dear Boss I guess you're playing Devil's Advocate and want me to
SPELL OUT THE OBVIOUS
1. The corporate insurance companies have more collective leverage than the same number of individuals.

EX: AIG that got the bailouts from Washington just happened to be one of the major property owners and interests in downtown Houston
putting pressure on city officials to favor the developers in letting them use taxpayer money to seize land instead of giving that help to nonprofits
and churches to expand their ownership. Coincidence?

2. So when it came to the ACA mandates and who the President bowed to and which interests got ignored or overruled
A. when the citizens objected to the individual mandates, and DEMAND that be removed, that gets overruled
B. when the corporate insurance companies DEMAND that the mandates remain, the President incorporates that into the contract
This is not weighing the interests equally

Boss I guess you should be glad you don't live in a historic BLACK church neighborhood like I do,
where the corporate interests have always gotten their way, because they pull the strings as to who gets elected to City Council and Mayor.
by collective INFLUENCE, by collective FINANCES, by collective image and perception in the MEDIA.
It takes a combination of all these to push the % needed to sway if not control the election.

Not to mention the influence in COURTS because of the professional ties with lawyers, judges and politicians.

Boss perhaps it is because you are such a determined independent thinker,you cannot image people like sheep just going where
the crowd points. But unfortunately we don't have enough people thinking for themselves as you do naturally and with self-detremination.

We need more people like you, and then this collective peer pressure would not have such a BRAIN WASHING effect.

I cannot even get my own friends to back me up on this idea of demanding reimbursement for millions of dollars our
City Govt wasted on unconstitutional ordinances that were bound to fail, but cost millions more to fight them.
If we all stood up, yes, that would become the norm.
Big corporate interests would not be ASSUMED to always get their way, so roll over and play dead and let them have at it.

But so many people give up and won't stand for our equal rights, we let bullies get away with abuses of govt that
TAXPAYERS HAVE TO PAY FOR. We are getting rolled left and right.

So that's why OCCUPY started, and the TEA PARTY to try to show SOME COLLECTIVE presence as big as the crony bullies
we are fighting. We can't just fight as tiny ants, but have to organize whole anthills or we're not taken seriously.

I guess it is because you do stand up for yourself, and don't consider these other people having bigger advantages over you,
that you don't understand how ppl can fall victim to this or blame it.

I am guessing you still frame it as blaming the individuals for not standing up more?

OK I get that, but in the meantime Boss if the corporate games have already spent
* several trillion of taxpayer money on big war contracts and nobody has gone after the contested ones to get the public paid back
* trillions to pay off insurance companies while forcing mandates on citizens to either buy insurance or pay fines to govt at a rising rate
* billions bailing out companies who can lobby Washington, while, for example, the 24 billion cost to the public for govt shutdown hasn't been paid
back to us because nobody is lobbying for that

Then IN THE MEANTIME (ie while we wait to vote someone else in)
WE ARE STILL PAYING THE BILLS WHILE CORPORATIONS BENEFIT OFF TAXPAYERS

So what part of that you do not understand, I don't know.
Either you think there's nothing anyone can do, so you aren't affected.
Or you think voting is enough, and if people don't have candidates to vote for who can change this, too bad.

Emily, you can rant day and night with these long winded posts of yours but it doesn't change the fact that no corporations vote. Zero... None... Nadda... Zilcho! How many different ways do I need to say it? You keep coming back at me with this argument that they "influence" or "leverage" but they don't get to vote. I guess you're not comprehending my point. When politicians vote to bail out AIG, that is not AIG voting. When politicians allow the insurance companies to write the health care bill, that is not the insurance companies making that choice.

We cannot sit here and blame all these problems on corporations and business when the real problem is the politicians we're electing. We're supposed to be diligent in our voting. We're supposed to hold these people accountable because they represent US... not the insurance companies or corporations.... US... The PEOPLE! If they are not doing that, if they are being "leveraged" or "influenced" we need to kick the damn bums out! We've got to stop electing people because they look pretty or make rosy speeches and tell us things we like to hear. When people are screwing their interns we have to kick them out of office and make no apologies about it.... not defend them and hoist them on some kind of fucking pedestal and pretend their shit don't stink! Character MATTERS!

With regard to ACA.. you had two options, the individual mandate or single payer. Without one of those you don't have a bill... you're not changing anything. The Republicans opposed ACA top to bottom. They had an alternative plan that was never considered. The Democrats lacked support for single payer. That's why you ended up with the individual mandate... they didn't have the support to pass single payer. So you can sit here and pretend "the people" didn't want the individual mandate, but they also obviously didn't want single payer either because not enough Democrats supported it. Truth be told, NONE of it should have been enacted because it's a massive spending bill and should have required a super majority to pass. But Nancy and Harry used procedural rules and by hook-or-crook managed to pass it anyway.... with NO bipartisan support!

Now... these are the people you're going to the polls and voting for year in and year out. You keep sending them back to serve another term and they keep right on screwing America. That's not the fault of the corporations or big business... it's YOUR fault and MY fault... WE are the ones who vote!

 

[emilynghiem]

Boss can you really look at ACA and tell me corporations didn't have greater influence than "individuals"?

Dear.... Corporations did not vote for a President who ran on the promise of ACA, nor did they cast votes in Congress for a 2,000-page bill that no one read.

Dear Boss they didn't need to. They got a bill passed that included the individual mandates, forcing all citizens to buy insurance. The President couldn't remove that individual mandate because he made a promise to the insurance companies to keep it in. So he listened to the insurance companies, gave them trillions of dollars they asked for, but won't listen to individual citizens saying NO to these terms and charging us the fines if we don't comply.

How did corporations get a bill passed? Mind control? Alien superpowers?

AGAIN... Corporations don't vote... they've never voted.

Are you being purposefully stupid? Or willfully stupid.

Google lobbyists. If you can google that is.

Well... last I checked, Lobbyists have ZERO votes in the Senate and House on any bill.

Dear Boss but if people who do have votes in Congress go along with the lobbies and parties, and don't listen to the people objecting, then guess how the votes come out?

Boss have you ever heard of peer pressure, do you understand how cults and gangs work? The mob mentality? Any of these people when taken by themselves might make a decision on their own that is different. But when wolves run in packs, the pack mentality, the collective influence changes the dynamic.

When you read stories of a small group of young men gang raping a young woman, how many of them would have done that by themselves? But they get in a group and 2-3 start doing something and the others don't want to be the objector, and bad things happen. Many of these men regret it later, and some can't explain why they went along.

You seem smart, do you understand collective mentality and how that dynamic influences people, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

Not everyone is as independent as you Boss
maybe that is why you underestimate this influence and coercion on people.

The Mayor of Houston admitted he was afraid to stand up against evictions because of the developer and business and political interests that supported him for office and would allow him to get reelected.

Admitted it, to a friend in private why he was afraid to do anything.

Governor Bush wouldn't stand up in the Terri Schiavo case for fear of political pressure. Many people protested his lack of action and even wrote letters legally explaining he had the authority as executive to step in when other avenues had failed.

Peer pressure, collective influence does play a part in people's decisions. Maybe you are strong and immune to this, but you must know a lot of people aren't and will go with what is the path of least resistance. Thanks Boss I appreciate that you think for yourself!

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily, you can rant day and night with these long winded posts of yours but it doesn't change the fact that no corporations vote. it's YOUR fault and MY fault... WE are the ones who vote!

1. Speak for yourself, Boss.
I have been contesting the vote for ACA that was split in both Congress and Courts. I explain over and over it is unconstitutional by violating beliefs and discriminating by creed.

If a person objects to being raped, but is raped anyway,
are you saying they are responsible for being raped because
that person didn't stop it?

a. even if they were raped by someone they voted for?
b. even if they married the person who raped them?

So the minute we do anything that approves this person having authority, then even if they rob or rape us against our will,
then we are responsible because we voted?

2. Corporations don't have to vote in Congress to have more influence than people individually.

You brought up BP as a foreign and not US corporation.

How many foreign individuals woudl be allowed to do what BP did?

if a loose group of foreign individuals negotiated with the Feds on capping the damages they paid, do you think they'd get what BP did

3. Now Boss It seems you and I would agree that the INDIVIDUALS
in Congress are INDIVIDUALLY responsible for how they voted.

But if these INDIVIDUALS make decisions that financially and politically favor large group interests and not INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS, where it takes years of going through Courts, legislative process and more elections, to challenge and fix it:

What about the damage done in the meantime that favors large interests
and takes away rights and income from individual citizens?

The damage done in the meantime already makes this unfair.

Boss what would be fair:
if a contested decision like the 51/49 vote in Congress over ACA
were to be PUT ON HOLD and not enforced until the dispute is SETTLED
then the interests on both sides would be treated EQUALLY.

UNTIL there is agreement, neither side is going to have Congress vote their way.

Then no matter how much these corporate entities pooled their resources together
to pressure Congress and work the Courts with their federal level lawyers that only large corporations can afford, the individual citizens dissent would still count in the equation. But that's not what happens.

In environmental cases, an environmental legal researcher told me that to win a case takes being 100% accurate on all the figures or the defense throws the case. The corporate defense can afford to spend money on lawyers to research and find flaws and contest the findings over any flaw that can be used to defeat the argument. So how many individuals are going to be able to afford legal help against larger corporations that can hire large law firms and with huge legal research depts?

If you don't think that influences City govt, you need to come look into this, and you'd see how weak people really are who won't stand up as you and I would do.

When a COLLECTIVE entity does something wrong, they can just shuffle the deck, replace people with others, or change names and keep going on.

COLLECTIVE groups of any type, whether religious or governmental, business or nonprofit, are going to be harder to check, Boss. That's why we have the Bill of Rights for govt because collective authority is bound to get abused by the nature of humans in larger groups of concentrated power.

Again I'm glad you are so self-determined and not one to give in to peer pressure.
In this case, your virtue and strength may be weakness if you cannot recognize how this becomes a weakness in others. If you can understand it, you might not be so angry at why people act the way they do, but could have more insight into what it's going to take to dismantle the mob mentality that makes people go along with the crowd and not take responsibility fully.

We all need to grow up and take responsibility, but people pass the buck.
If they can blame it on a large group putting pressure on them, they will give in.
And let someone else deal with it. Sorry but I've seen it over and over.

As much as I have yelled and lectured my own City council members for giving in to this pressure saying things like "there wasn't enough support to do otherwise" I said NO, that's even more reason to stand up for Constitutional rights, and tell these bullies it is wrong and the duty of govt is to defend equal protection of the laws instead of giving in.

Only recently did the citizens of Houston finally start electing city council people who did say NO and did the pastors organize lobbies to defeat an unconstitutional ordinance; but it took Corporate level organizing of resources to do it. Individuals did not stand a chance, because there were so many other violations where individuals protested but could not get the oppression to be recognized or stopped.

So Boss it takes Corporate level lobbying to stand up to Corporate level lobbying.
Maybe YOU could stand up to Corporate groups and take them one by one and hold each person accountable. Most people don't have the time or resources to do that. so in Houston
it took an ongoing effort to unify church pastors across the city, to collect petitions, then sue to defend those petitions in court before the City would follow its own policies.
That's a collective entity for you. Even though the citizens voted on these council people,
it took a longrunning legal battle, very expensive including ad campaigns on both sides,
to stop the violations. Individuals could not do this on their own, or it wouldn't have happened. Individuals can be stopped individually. When you get a collective mob going, it takes a collective force of equal and opposite power to stop it.

Best wishes Boss. I believe as you do in holding people to answer individually so we CAN have accountability. but in the meantime I recognize that once a large group gets momentum going, they can bulldoze right over individuals.

Maybe not you, so given the way you think, I hope you do head a group that lobbies for Constitutional enforcement by each individual in Govt.

Maybe people would listen to you without you having to sue in federal court
like everyone else has to in order to say NO to Congress and the ACA, for example.

If Congress would have listened to NO from the beginning, we wouldn't have these
problems. We'd all mediate until the vote is YES across the board.

I believe in consensus, by taking each person's consent into account, and making responsible decisions that reflect everyone, not just the biggest bully or loudest brat.

Boss if you and I agree that Congress members are INDIVIDUALLY responsible for how THEY vote INDIVIDUALLY, then I am happy to join with you in a petition, just us two,
telling EACH member of Congress and EACH member of the Supreme Court they are individually responsible for paying the cost of the contested ACA and any damages or expenses contested by taxpayers who didn't consent to how the bill was passed or enforced.

If you and I agree to hold INDIVIDUALS responsible for that vote, I'm with you on that!
Thanks Boss