Health Care - we gotta fix this shit...

Once people are required to pay for medical costs out of their own pockets, they will not opt for some unnecessary shit, and will refuse to pay some of the ridiculous bills providers and pharma want to charge. If no one can afford expensive care, prices MUST come down.

Outlaw health insurance. It has done nothing but widen the gaps and run up the cost of care/pharma.

People are required to pay for houses out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for land out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for cars out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for clothing out of their own pockets. The prices are constantly rising.
 
Once people are required to pay for medical costs out of their own pockets, they will not opt for some unnecessary shit, and will refuse to pay some of the ridiculous bills providers and pharma want to charge. If no one can afford expensive care, prices MUST come down.

Outlaw health insurance. It has done nothing but widen the gaps and run up the cost of care/pharma.

People are required to pay for houses out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for land out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for cars out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for clothing out of their own pockets. The prices are constantly rising.

LOL - how fast do you suppose those prices would rise if they weren't paying for it themselves?

C'mon. Even the most pie in the sky liberal has to understand that prices will go up when the customers don't care how much they are paying (because they aren't paying). Are you really denying it?
 
Your first link offered info on typical supplemental insurance plans.
You misread. I might have mentioned supplemental plans, but the point of the article is that the top five insurance companies are getting 60% of the revenue from the plans they serve up to Medicare and Medicaid. Read it again, perhaps without an incorrect assumption guiding you. The government sub-contracts Medicare and Medicaid to private for-profit insurance companies. This is an established fact.

I wouldn't make such a fuss about this, but a lot of people think that Medicare for All will take private insurance out of the equation, when the fact of the matter is it won't. They are deeply embedded in Medicare and Medicaid. Medicare for all will just force us to buy their insurance, whether we want to or not - much like ACA.

Single-payer wouldn't be an end-run around insurance companies, it would be a funnel forcing us to support them.
 
Once people are required to pay for medical costs out of their own pockets, they will not opt for some unnecessary shit, and will refuse to pay some of the ridiculous bills providers and pharma want to charge. If no one can afford expensive care, prices MUST come down.

Outlaw health insurance. It has done nothing but widen the gaps and run up the cost of care/pharma.

People are required to pay for houses out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for land out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for cars out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for clothing out of their own pockets. The prices are constantly rising.

LOL - how fast do you suppose those prices would rise if they weren't paying for it themselves?

C'mon. Even the most pie in the sky liberal has to understand that prices will go up when the customers don't care how much they are paying (because they aren't paying). Are you really denying it?

Its a different argument.

But it certainly seems as though the insurance companies with their enormous clout would be able to over-rule the healthcare industry when it comes to pricing if the argument is that the price rises because it can and if “someone else” is paying (that someone else being the insurance companies.

The argument was that if you have a bunch of people with no means to pay, the price will fall. It’s completely unfounded.
 
Once people are required to pay for medical costs out of their own pockets, they will not opt for some unnecessary shit, and will refuse to pay some of the ridiculous bills providers and pharma want to charge. If no one can afford expensive care, prices MUST come down.

Outlaw health insurance. It has done nothing but widen the gaps and run up the cost of care/pharma.

People are required to pay for houses out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for land out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for cars out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for clothing out of their own pockets. The prices are constantly rising.

LOL - how fast do you suppose those prices would rise if they weren't paying for it themselves?

C'mon. Even the most pie in the sky liberal has to understand that prices will go up when the customers don't care how much they are paying (because they aren't paying). Are you really denying it?

Its a different argument.

But it certainly seems as though the insurance companies with their enormous clout would be able to over-rule the healthcare industry when it comes to pricing if the argument is that the price rises because it can and if “someone else” is paying (that someone else being the insurance companies.

The argument was that if you have a bunch of people with no means to pay, the price will fall. It’s completely unfounded.


They already do, have you ever looked at an EOB? Charge, allowed amount and then what you pay. MRI $3000 allowed amount $300 and then your co pay or co insurance of the allowed amount.
 
I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.
Make your idea an opt in, People that want the nanny state they can have it. People that want nothing to do with it Automatically excluded
That is what the public option was -- before you conservatives fear-mongered it to death...

Then Obama tried to compromise with you and offered up your own plan --- then you conservatives fear-mongered that too

In the years since, republicans have FAILED consistently to come up with anything better, so now here we are --- as predicted -- some conservatives having to admit, "the libs were right"
 
The argument was that if you have a bunch of people with no means to pay, the price will fall. It’s completely unfounded.

Read it again. That wasn't the argument.

I did.
It was.

At least it was the argument that I responding to.
Once people are required to pay for medical costs out of their own pockets, they will not opt for some unnecessary shit, and will refuse to pay some of the ridiculous bills providers and pharma want to charge. If no one can afford expensive care, prices MUST come down.

Outlaw health insurance. It has done nothing but widen the gaps and run up the cost of care/pharma.

People are required to pay for houses out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for land out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for cars out of their own pockets. The prices seem to be constantly rising
People are required to pay for clothing out of their own pockets. The prices are constantly rising.

LOL - how fast do you suppose those prices would rise if they weren't paying for it themselves?

C'mon. Even the most pie in the sky liberal has to understand that prices will go up when the customers don't care how much they are paying (because they aren't paying). Are you really denying it?

Its a different argument.

But it certainly seems as though the insurance companies with their enormous clout would be able to over-rule the healthcare industry when it comes to pricing if the argument is that the price rises because it can and if “someone else” is paying (that someone else being the insurance companies.

The argument was that if you have a bunch of people with no means to pay, the price will fall. It’s completely unfounded.


They already do, have you ever looked at an EOB? Charge, allowed amount and then what you pay. MRI $3000 allowed amount $300 and then your co pay or co insurance of the allowed amount.

The argument was to get rid of the insurance, make consumers of health care pay out of pocket and the price will drop accordingly.

Not going to happen.
 
The argument was to get rid of the insurance, make consumers of health care pay out of pocket and the price will drop accordingly.

Not going to happen.

Probably not. But it would reduce prices.

Doubtful.

The MRI in your local hospital is probably made by either Seimens or GE. Next get MRIs costs about 2M each. Maintenance contracts alone run into the six figures. This thing has got to work flawlessly. Unless your hospital was constructed in the 80’s and hasn’t upgraded from the single dimensional resolution (also doubtful), the campus your visiting is probably still paying tens of thousands a month in their lease agreement on the MRI. Covering that has to come from somewhere. The price won’t magically go down from Seimens because Aetna is no longer in the picture. Sorry.
 
I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.
You're a conservative and you want the Federal government to totally run healthcare? Are you having a stroke?
 
The argument was to get rid of the insurance, make consumers of health care pay out of pocket and the price will drop accordingly.

Not going to happen.

Probably not. But it would reduce prices.

Doubtful.

The MRI in your local hospital is probably made by either Seimens or GE. Next get MRIs costs about 2M each. Maintenance contracts alone run into the six figures. This thing has got to work flawlessly. Unless your hospital was constructed in the 80’s and hasn’t upgraded from the single dimensional resolution (also doubtful), the campus your visiting is probably still paying tens of thousands a month in their lease agreement on the MRI. Covering that has to come from somewhere. The price won’t magically go down from Seimens because Aetna is no longer in the picture. Sorry.

Wow.... how can you ignore what is so painfully obvious? If that's how much MRI's cost, then - we - can't - afford - them. Why is that so hard to understand? If we face that fact like sober adults, instead of clicking our heels three times and pretending government can wave a wand and make MRIs cheaper, then we can get to work finding alternatives we can afford. As it is, we're too preoccupied with schemes to get someone else to pay for it. The cheaper alternatives are never explored, and prices continue to rise.
 
You need to 'splain this better Lucy! It makes no sense as written.
Creating a new single payer system makes no sense when we have one that works quite well. There is no reason why Medicare won't work for the entire nation. Medicare is currently paying for about 27% of the nations healthcare cost. The problem I see with single payer is transitioning to it. I'm proposing a slow migration over a number years, gradually decreasing the age requirement. We are already insuring those with the highest healthcare cost. As we add more people we will be adding people with less healthcare problems.

If Medicare Part B stayed the same, it would still cost over $540 for a family of 4. That still isn't cheap and there is no way to remain solvent with those low premiums. Add in the mandatory deductibles and coinsurance and all you have is ObamaCare 2.0.
That might be truth if the family of 4 are seniors, age 65+ but the typical family of 4 would have 2 adults age 31 and 26 with 2 children under age 16. There healthcare cost would be well below that seniors as would be their premium.

Oh come on! That's so idiotic! Do you have any clue about how regular insurance rates are calculated?

You must have some idea that the costs will be more than $6000 a year offset by those premiums! If it could work like that, insurance companies would offer it!
In general, insurance premiums are determined by risk so we would expect health insurance premiums to be high for the elderly and low for younger people. However, that's all changed with Obamacare. The risks and thus the cost of insuring older people is much higher than younger people. In a single payers system, the fee paid by the public could be a flat fee, aged based, income based, or even no fee at all with all cost paid by the government. It just depend on congress.

Healthcare cost of $6,000 for family of 4 is a lot less than what people are paying today. A typical American family of four insured by the most common employer-sponsored health plan can expect to spend more than $28,000 on healthcare in 2018, according to the annual Milliman Medical Index report. This includes the average cost of health insurance paid by employers and employees, as well as deductibles and out-of-pocket expenses. It also includes government subsidies.

$28k: The average price a family of 4 will spend on healthcare in 2018
 
The argument was to get rid of the insurance, make consumers of health care pay out of pocket and the price will drop accordingly.

Not going to happen.

Probably not. But it would reduce prices.

Doubtful.

The MRI in your local hospital is probably made by either Seimens or GE. Next get MRIs costs about 2M each. Maintenance contracts alone run into the six figures. This thing has got to work flawlessly. Unless your hospital was constructed in the 80’s and hasn’t upgraded from the single dimensional resolution (also doubtful), the campus your visiting is probably still paying tens of thousands a month in their lease agreement on the MRI. Covering that has to come from somewhere. The price won’t magically go down from Seimens because Aetna is no longer in the picture. Sorry.

Wow.... how can you ignore what is so painfully obvious?
You tell me. You’re the one doing it.

If that's how much MRI's cost, then - we - can't - afford - them. Why is that so hard to understand?
Sorry. It costs money to make these machines; it costs money to maintain these machines. We can make less accurate machines and hire terrible technicians I suppose but healthcare will suffer.

If we face that fact like sober adults, instead of clicking our heels three times and pretending government can wave a wand and make MRIs cheaper, then we can get to work finding alternatives we can afford. As it is, we're too preoccupied with schemes to get someone else to pay for it. The cheaper alternatives are never explored, and prices continue to rise.

Gee, if only we had a President who would force you to purchase your own insurance so the government wouldn’t have to “wave a wand” like you pretend they do….

Oh wait, we did. Every republican on earth opposed it. Now you see more and more GOP states expanding insurance in every possible way. From just this week...

Screen Shot 2018-11-10 at 12.32.15 PM.png


As I recall Kentucky, Tennessee and Georgia expanded their Medicaid already.
————

The costs are the costs. Be it Healthcare or any other field you wish to name.
 
The argument was to get rid of the insurance, make consumers of health care pay out of pocket and the price will drop accordingly.

Not going to happen.

Probably not. But it would reduce prices.

Doubtful.

The MRI in your local hospital is probably made by either Seimens or GE. Next get MRIs costs about 2M each. Maintenance contracts alone run into the six figures. This thing has got to work flawlessly. Unless your hospital was constructed in the 80’s and hasn’t upgraded from the single dimensional resolution (also doubtful), the campus your visiting is probably still paying tens of thousands a month in their lease agreement on the MRI. Covering that has to come from somewhere. The price won’t magically go down from Seimens because Aetna is no longer in the picture. Sorry.
Lawyers and doctors own the MRIs in South Dakota, They are an investment for them.
 
Yep, the federal government uses socialism for the good of the people... see the results :lmao:

Pine Ridge Reservation

STATISTICAL DATA

Despite nearly-insurmountable conditions, few resources, and against unbelievable odds, Indigenous people are struggling hard to overcome decades of neglect, discrimination and forced destruction of their traditional cultures to promote a life of self-respect and self-sufficiency.

BRIEF STATISTICS

* 97% of of the population at Pine Ridge Reservation live below federal poverty line.

* The unemployment rate vacillates from 85% to 95% on the Reservation.

* Death due to Heart Disease: Twice the national average.

* The infant mortality rate is the highest on this continent and is about 300% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Elderly die each winter from hypothermia (freezing).

* Recent reports point out that the median income on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately $2,600 to $3,500 per year.

* At least 60% of the homes are severely substandard, without water, electricity, adequate insulation, and sewage systems.

* Recent reports state the average life expectancy is 45 years old while others state that it is 48 years old for men and 52 years old for women. With either set of figures, that's the shortest life expectancy for any community in the Western Hemisphere outside Haiti, according to The Wall Street Journal.

INTRODUCTORY

Hidden away, dotted throughout the landscape of America, are the Reservations of the Indigenous People of our land. Mostly unknown or forgotten by the mainstream culture of the dominant U.S. society, the average United States resident knows little or nothing about these people other than what romanticized versions they see in movies and television or else in their nearest Reservation casino. Most assume that whatever poverty exists on a reservation is most certainly comparable to that which they might experience themselves.

And definitely, mainstream Americans are accustomed to being exposed to poverty. It has become nearly invisible due to its overwhelming presence everywhere. We drive through our cities now with a blind eye, numb to the suffering around us. Even more, we watch the televised reports of Third World countries, shake our heads and turn away, rightfully assuming that our government and our charities will help those in need all over the globe.

But the question begs: What about the foreign nations on America's own soil, within this country, a part and yet apart from mainstream society? What about the Native American Nations on America's reservations? Few mainstream Americans know anything about the people that live on these reservations and fewer still know or comprehend the unconscionable conditions present on many of them.

What many do not know is that a staggering number of residents on Native American reservations live in abject conditions rivaling, or even surpassing, that of many Third World countries.

This report chronicles just one Nation, the Oglala Lakota (Sioux) Nation of the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota. Yet the name and only a few details could easily be changed to describe a host of others; Dineh (Navajo), Ute Mountain Ute, Tohono O'odham, Pima, Yaqui, Ojibwa, Chippewa, the list is long.

But despite nearly-insurmountable conditions, few resources, and against unbelievable odds, Nation after Nation of Indigenous leaders and their people are working hard to counteract decades of oppression and forced destruction of their cultures to bring their citizens back to a life of self-respect and self-sufficiency in today's world.



Below are further in depth statistics of Pine Ridge

IN DEPTH STATISTICS

* The Pine Ridge Oglala Lakota (Sioux) Indian Reservation sits in Bennett, Jackson, and Shannon Counties and is located in the southwest corner of South Dakota, fifty miles east of the Wyoming border.

* The 11,000-square mile (over 2 million acres) Oglala Lakota Pine Ridge Reservation is the second-largest Native American Reservation within the United States. It is roughly the size of the State of Connecticut.

* The Reservation is divided into eight districts: Eagle Nest, Pass Creek, Wakpamni, LaCreek, Pine Ridge, White Clay, Medicine Root, Porcupine, and Wounded Knee.

* The topography of the Pine Ridge Reservation includes badlands, rolling grassland hills, dryland prairie, and areas dotted with pine trees.

* According to the 1998 Bureau of Indian Affairs Census, the Pine Ridge Reservation is home to approximately 40,000 persons, 35% of which are under the age of 16. Approximately half the residents of the Reservation are registered tribal members of the Oglala Lakota Nation.

* The population is steadily rising, despite the severe conditions on the Reservation, as more and more Oglala Lakota return home from far-away cities in order to live within their societal values, be with their families, and assist with the revitalization of their culture and their Nation.

* Recent reports point out that the median income on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately $2,600 per year.

* The unemployment rate vacillates from 85% to 95% on the Reservation.

* There is no industry, technology, or commercial infrastructure on the Reservation to provide employment.

* The nearest town of size (which provides some jobs for those few persons able to travel the distance) is Rapid City, South Dakota with approximately 57,000 residents. It is located approximately 120 miles from the Reservation. The nearest large city to Pine Ridge is Denver, Colorado located about 350 miles away.

* Some figures state that the life expectancy on the Reservation is 48 years old for men and 52 for women. Other reports state that the average life expectancy on the Reservation is 45 years old. With either set of figures, that's the shortest life expectancy for a community anywhere in the Western Hemisphere outside Haiti, according to The Wall Street Journal.

* Teenage suicide rate on the Pine Ridge Reservation is 150% higher than the U.S. national average for this age group.

* The infant mortality rate is the highest on this continent and is about 300% higher than the U.S. national average.

* More than half the Reservation's adults battle addiction and disease. Alcoholism, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and malnutrition are rampant.


* The rate of diabetes on the Reservation is reported to be 800% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Recent reports indicate that almost 50% of the adults on the Reservation over the age of 40 have diabetes. Over 37% of population is diabetic.

* As a result of the high rate of diabetes on the Reservation, diabetic-related blindness, amputations, and kidney failure are common.

* The tuberculosis rate on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately 800% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Cervical cancer is 500% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Each winter, Reservation Elders are found dead from hypothermia (freezing).

* It is reported that at least 60% of the homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation are infested with Black Mold, Stachybotrys. This infestation causes an often-fatal condition with infants, children, elderly, those with damaged immune systems, and those with lung and pulmonary conditions at the highest risk. Exposure to this mold can cause hemorrhaging of the lungs and brain as well as cancer.

* Many Reservation residents live without health care due to vast travel distances involved in accessing that care. Additional factors include under-funded, under-staffed medical facilities and outdated or non-existent medical equipment. There is little hope for increased funding for Indian health care.

* Preventive healthcare programs are rare.

* In most of the treaties between the U.S. Government and Indian Nations, the U.S. government agreed to provide adequate medical care for Indians in return for vast quantities of land. The Indian Health Services (IHS) was set up to administer the health care for Indians under these treaties and receives an appropriation each year to fund Indian health care. Unfortunately, the appropriation is very small compared to the need. The IHS is understaffed and ill-equipped and can't possibly address the needs of Indian communities. Nowhere is this more apparent than on the Pine Ridge Reservation.

* School drop-out rate is over 70%.

* According to a Bureau of Indian Affairs report, the Pine Ridge Reservation schools are in the bottom 10% of school funding by U.S. Department of Education and the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

* Teacher turnover is 800% that of the U.S. national average

* The small Tribal Housing Authority homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation are so overcrowded and scarce that many homeless families often use tents or cars for shelter. Many families live in shacks, old trailers, or dilapidated mobile homes.

* There is a large homeless population on the Reservation, but most families never turn away a relative no matter how distant the blood relation. Consequently, many homes have large numbers of people living in them.

* There is an estimated average of 17 people living in each family home (a home which may only have two to three rooms). Some homes, built for 6 to 8 people, have up to 30 people living in them.

* 60% of Reservation families have no telephone.

* Over 33% of the Reservation homes lack basic water and sewage systems as well as electricity.

* Many residents must carry (often contaminated) water from the local rivers daily for their personal needs.

* 39% of the homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation have no electricity.

* 59% of the Reservation homes are substandard.

* It is reported that at least 60% of the homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation need to be burned to the ground and replaced with new housing due to infestation of the potentially-fatal Black Mold, Stachybotrys. There is no insurance or government program to assist families in replacing their homes.

* Some Reservation families are forced to sleep on dirt floors.

* Many Reservation homes lack adequate insulation. Even more homes lack central heating.

* Without basic insulation or central heating in their homes, many residents on the Pine Ridge Reservation use their ovens to heat their homes.

* Many Reservation homes lack stoves, refrigerators, beds, and/or basic furniture.

* Most Reservation families live in rural and often isolated areas.

* The largest town on the Reservation is the town of Pine Ridge which has a population of approximately 5,720 people and is the administrative center for the Reservation.

* There are few improved roads on the Reservation and many of the homes are inaccessible during times of heavy snow or rain.

* Weather is extreme on the Reservation. Severe winds are always a factor. Traditionally, summer temperatures reach well over 110*F and winters bring bitter cold with temperatures that can reach -50*F below zero or worse. Flooding, tornados, or wildfires are always a risk.

* Many of the wells and much of the water and land on the Reservation is contaminated with pesticides and other poisons from farming, mining, open dumps, and commercial and governmental mining operations outside the Reservation. A further source of contamination is buried ordnance and hazardous materials from closed U.S. military bombing ranges on the Reservation.

* The Pine Ridge Reservation still has no banks, motels, discount stores, or movie theaters. It has only one grocery store of any moderate size and it is located in the town of Pine Ridge on the Reservation.

* Several of the banks and lending institutions nearest to the Reservation were recently targeted for investigation of fraudulent or predatory lending practices, with the citizens of the Pine Ridge Reservation as their victims.

* There are no public libraries except one at the Oglala Lakota College of the reservation.

* There is no public transportation available on the Reservation.

* Ownership of operable automobiles by residents of the Reservation is highly limited.

* Predominate form of travel for all ages on the Reservation is walking or hitchhiking.

* There is one very small airport on the Reservation servicing both the Pine Ridge Reservation and Shannon County. It's longest, paved runway extends 4,969 feet. There are no commercial flights available.

* There is one radio station on the Pine Ridge Reservation. KILI 90.1FM is located near the town of Porcupine on the Reservation.

* Alcoholism affects eight out of ten families on the Reservation.

* The death rate from alcohol-related problems on the Reservation is 300% higher than the remaining US population.

* The Oglala Lakota Nation has prohibited the sale and possession of alcohol on the Pine Ridge Reservation since the early 1970's. However, the town of Whiteclay, Nebraska (which sits 400 yards off the Reservation border in a contested "buffer" zone) has approximately 14 residents and four liquor stores which sell over 4.1 million cans of beer each year resulting in a $3million annual trade. Unlike other Nebraska communities, Whiteclay exists only to sell liquor and make money. It has no schools, no churches, no civic organizations, no parks, no benches, no public bathrooms, no fire service and no law enforcement. Tribal officials have repeatedly pleaded with the State of Nebraska to close these liquor stores or enforce the State laws regulating liquor stores but have been consistently refused.

* Scientific studies show that the High Plains/Oglala Aquifer which begins underneath the Pine Ridge Reservation is predicted to run dry within the next thirty years, possibly as early as the year 2005, due to commercial interest use and dryland farming in numerous states south of the Reservation. This critical North American underground water resource is not renewable at anything near the present consumption rate. The recent years of drought have simply accelerated the problem.

* Scientific studies show that much of the High Plains/Oglala Aquifer has been contaminated with farming pesticides and commercial, factory, mining, and industrial contaminants in the States of South Dakota, Wyoming, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas.

* The Tribal nations are considered to have sovereign governmental status and have a government to government relationship with the United States. The Oglala Lakota Sioux Tribal government operates under a constitution consistent with the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 and approved by the Tribal membership and Tribal Council of the Oglala Lakota Sioux Tribe. The Tribe is governed by an elected body consisting of a 5 member Executive Committee and an 18 member Tribal Council, all of whom serve a four year term.
 
Insurance companies would be removed from the equation, save for those who want to pay for private insurance as a backup plan, or a primary plan.

Uh, no. That's not how Medicare works. They just farm it out to private insurance companies who have lobbied government for the favor.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits
Medicare Advantage plans operated by private insurance companies now cover 33% of Medicare beneficiaries. For most people, the alternative is original Medicare or original Medicare plus a supplement and possibly a part D drug plan.

For the beneficiary, there are advantages and disadvantages to all three routes. For the government, MedAdvantage plans can control cost in ways original Medicare can not.

Medicare Advantage plans are great for retirees with few healthcare problems since they have low and often zero premiums. Unfortunately, as you age and your healthcare problems increase, these plans can become not only costly but put the beneficiary in a mountain of medical bills for copays and coinsurance which vary with every type healthcare service. The plans are mostly HMOs which means referrals by a primary care doctor and staying in network. Often there is no coverage at all except emergency care if you travel outside your local community.

Premiums for medicare supplements are costly compared to Medadvantage plans but there are virtually no medical bills to pay. You can go to any doctor or hospital that accepts Medicare anywhere in the country which are about 98% of healthcare providers and there is no cost.

Once you are in a MedAdvantage going back to Medicare with a supplement is nearly impossible for most people because they will be subject to medical underwriting.
 
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Insurance companies would be removed from the equation, save for those who want to pay for private insurance as a backup plan, or a primary plan.

Uh, no. That's not how Medicare works. They just farm it out to private insurance companies who have lobbied government for the favor.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits
Medicare Advantage plans operated by private insurance companies now cover 33% of Medicare beneficiaries. For most people, the alternative is original Medicare or original Medicare plus a supplement and possibly a part D drug plan.

For the beneficiary, there are advantages and disadvantages to all three routes. For the government, MedAdvantage plans can control cost in ways original Medicare can not.

Medicare Advantage plans are great for retirees with few healthcare problems since they have low and often zero premiums. Unfortunately, as you age and your healthcare problems increase, these plans can become not only costly but put the beneficiary in a mountain of medical bills for copays and coinsurance which vary with every type healthcare service. The plans are mostly HMOs which means referrals by a primary care doctor and staying in network. Often there is no coverage at all except emergency care if you travel outside your local community.

Premiums medicare with a supplement is expensive but there are virtually no medical bills to pay. You can go to any doctor or hospital that accepts Medicare anywhere in the country which are about 98% of healthcare providers and there is no cost.

Once you are in a MedAdvantage going back to Medicare with a supplement is nearly impossible for most people because they will be subject to medical underwriting.
So what?
 
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Yep, the federal government uses socialism for the good of the people... see the results :lmao:

Pine Ridge Reservation

STATISTICAL DATA

Despite nearly-insurmountable conditions, few resources, and against unbelievable odds, Indigenous people are struggling hard to overcome decades of neglect, discrimination and forced destruction of their traditional cultures to promote a life of self-respect and self-sufficiency.

BRIEF STATISTICS

* 97% of of the population at Pine Ridge Reservation live below federal poverty line.

* The unemployment rate vacillates from 85% to 95% on the Reservation.

* Death due to Heart Disease: Twice the national average.

* The infant mortality rate is the highest on this continent and is about 300% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Elderly die each winter from hypothermia (freezing).

* Recent reports point out that the median income on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately $2,600 to $3,500 per year.

* At least 60% of the homes are severely substandard, without water, electricity, adequate insulation, and sewage systems.

* Recent reports state the average life expectancy is 45 years old while others state that it is 48 years old for men and 52 years old for women. With either set of figures, that's the shortest life expectancy for any community in the Western Hemisphere outside Haiti, according to The Wall Street Journal.

INTRODUCTORY

Hidden away, dotted throughout the landscape of America, are the Reservations of the Indigenous People of our land. Mostly unknown or forgotten by the mainstream culture of the dominant U.S. society, the average United States resident knows little or nothing about these people other than what romanticized versions they see in movies and television or else in their nearest Reservation casino. Most assume that whatever poverty exists on a reservation is most certainly comparable to that which they might experience themselves.

And definitely, mainstream Americans are accustomed to being exposed to poverty. It has become nearly invisible due to its overwhelming presence everywhere. We drive through our cities now with a blind eye, numb to the suffering around us. Even more, we watch the televised reports of Third World countries, shake our heads and turn away, rightfully assuming that our government and our charities will help those in need all over the globe.

But the question begs: What about the foreign nations on America's own soil, within this country, a part and yet apart from mainstream society? What about the Native American Nations on America's reservations? Few mainstream Americans know anything about the people that live on these reservations and fewer still know or comprehend the unconscionable conditions present on many of them.

What many do not know is that a staggering number of residents on Native American reservations live in abject conditions rivaling, or even surpassing, that of many Third World countries.

This report chronicles just one Nation, the Oglala Lakota (Sioux) Nation of the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota. Yet the name and only a few details could easily be changed to describe a host of others; Dineh (Navajo), Ute Mountain Ute, Tohono O'odham, Pima, Yaqui, Ojibwa, Chippewa, the list is long.

But despite nearly-insurmountable conditions, few resources, and against unbelievable odds, Nation after Nation of Indigenous leaders and their people are working hard to counteract decades of oppression and forced destruction of their cultures to bring their citizens back to a life of self-respect and self-sufficiency in today's world.



Below are further in depth statistics of Pine Ridge

IN DEPTH STATISTICS

* The Pine Ridge Oglala Lakota (Sioux) Indian Reservation sits in Bennett, Jackson, and Shannon Counties and is located in the southwest corner of South Dakota, fifty miles east of the Wyoming border.

* The 11,000-square mile (over 2 million acres) Oglala Lakota Pine Ridge Reservation is the second-largest Native American Reservation within the United States. It is roughly the size of the State of Connecticut.

* The Reservation is divided into eight districts: Eagle Nest, Pass Creek, Wakpamni, LaCreek, Pine Ridge, White Clay, Medicine Root, Porcupine, and Wounded Knee.

* The topography of the Pine Ridge Reservation includes badlands, rolling grassland hills, dryland prairie, and areas dotted with pine trees.

* According to the 1998 Bureau of Indian Affairs Census, the Pine Ridge Reservation is home to approximately 40,000 persons, 35% of which are under the age of 16. Approximately half the residents of the Reservation are registered tribal members of the Oglala Lakota Nation.

* The population is steadily rising, despite the severe conditions on the Reservation, as more and more Oglala Lakota return home from far-away cities in order to live within their societal values, be with their families, and assist with the revitalization of their culture and their Nation.

* Recent reports point out that the median income on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately $2,600 per year.

* The unemployment rate vacillates from 85% to 95% on the Reservation.

* There is no industry, technology, or commercial infrastructure on the Reservation to provide employment.

* The nearest town of size (which provides some jobs for those few persons able to travel the distance) is Rapid City, South Dakota with approximately 57,000 residents. It is located approximately 120 miles from the Reservation. The nearest large city to Pine Ridge is Denver, Colorado located about 350 miles away.

* Some figures state that the life expectancy on the Reservation is 48 years old for men and 52 for women. Other reports state that the average life expectancy on the Reservation is 45 years old. With either set of figures, that's the shortest life expectancy for a community anywhere in the Western Hemisphere outside Haiti, according to The Wall Street Journal.

* Teenage suicide rate on the Pine Ridge Reservation is 150% higher than the U.S. national average for this age group.

* The infant mortality rate is the highest on this continent and is about 300% higher than the U.S. national average.

* More than half the Reservation's adults battle addiction and disease. Alcoholism, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and malnutrition are rampant.


* The rate of diabetes on the Reservation is reported to be 800% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Recent reports indicate that almost 50% of the adults on the Reservation over the age of 40 have diabetes. Over 37% of population is diabetic.

* As a result of the high rate of diabetes on the Reservation, diabetic-related blindness, amputations, and kidney failure are common.

* The tuberculosis rate on the Pine Ridge Reservation is approximately 800% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Cervical cancer is 500% higher than the U.S. national average.

* Each winter, Reservation Elders are found dead from hypothermia (freezing).

* It is reported that at least 60% of the homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation are infested with Black Mold, Stachybotrys. This infestation causes an often-fatal condition with infants, children, elderly, those with damaged immune systems, and those with lung and pulmonary conditions at the highest risk. Exposure to this mold can cause hemorrhaging of the lungs and brain as well as cancer.

* Many Reservation residents live without health care due to vast travel distances involved in accessing that care. Additional factors include under-funded, under-staffed medical facilities and outdated or non-existent medical equipment. There is little hope for increased funding for Indian health care.

* Preventive healthcare programs are rare.

* In most of the treaties between the U.S. Government and Indian Nations, the U.S. government agreed to provide adequate medical care for Indians in return for vast quantities of land. The Indian Health Services (IHS) was set up to administer the health care for Indians under these treaties and receives an appropriation each year to fund Indian health care. Unfortunately, the appropriation is very small compared to the need. The IHS is understaffed and ill-equipped and can't possibly address the needs of Indian communities. Nowhere is this more apparent than on the Pine Ridge Reservation.

* School drop-out rate is over 70%.

* According to a Bureau of Indian Affairs report, the Pine Ridge Reservation schools are in the bottom 10% of school funding by U.S. Department of Education and the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

* Teacher turnover is 800% that of the U.S. national average

* The small Tribal Housing Authority homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation are so overcrowded and scarce that many homeless families often use tents or cars for shelter. Many families live in shacks, old trailers, or dilapidated mobile homes.

* There is a large homeless population on the Reservation, but most families never turn away a relative no matter how distant the blood relation. Consequently, many homes have large numbers of people living in them.

* There is an estimated average of 17 people living in each family home (a home which may only have two to three rooms). Some homes, built for 6 to 8 people, have up to 30 people living in them.

* 60% of Reservation families have no telephone.

* Over 33% of the Reservation homes lack basic water and sewage systems as well as electricity.

* Many residents must carry (often contaminated) water from the local rivers daily for their personal needs.

* 39% of the homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation have no electricity.

* 59% of the Reservation homes are substandard.

* It is reported that at least 60% of the homes on the Pine Ridge Reservation need to be burned to the ground and replaced with new housing due to infestation of the potentially-fatal Black Mold, Stachybotrys. There is no insurance or government program to assist families in replacing their homes.

* Some Reservation families are forced to sleep on dirt floors.

* Many Reservation homes lack adequate insulation. Even more homes lack central heating.

* Without basic insulation or central heating in their homes, many residents on the Pine Ridge Reservation use their ovens to heat their homes.

* Many Reservation homes lack stoves, refrigerators, beds, and/or basic furniture.

* Most Reservation families live in rural and often isolated areas.

* The largest town on the Reservation is the town of Pine Ridge which has a population of approximately 5,720 people and is the administrative center for the Reservation.

* There are few improved roads on the Reservation and many of the homes are inaccessible during times of heavy snow or rain.

* Weather is extreme on the Reservation. Severe winds are always a factor. Traditionally, summer temperatures reach well over 110*F and winters bring bitter cold with temperatures that can reach -50*F below zero or worse. Flooding, tornados, or wildfires are always a risk.

* Many of the wells and much of the water and land on the Reservation is contaminated with pesticides and other poisons from farming, mining, open dumps, and commercial and governmental mining operations outside the Reservation. A further source of contamination is buried ordnance and hazardous materials from closed U.S. military bombing ranges on the Reservation.

* The Pine Ridge Reservation still has no banks, motels, discount stores, or movie theaters. It has only one grocery store of any moderate size and it is located in the town of Pine Ridge on the Reservation.

* Several of the banks and lending institutions nearest to the Reservation were recently targeted for investigation of fraudulent or predatory lending practices, with the citizens of the Pine Ridge Reservation as their victims.

* There are no public libraries except one at the Oglala Lakota College of the reservation.

* There is no public transportation available on the Reservation.

* Ownership of operable automobiles by residents of the Reservation is highly limited.

* Predominate form of travel for all ages on the Reservation is walking or hitchhiking.

* There is one very small airport on the Reservation servicing both the Pine Ridge Reservation and Shannon County. It's longest, paved runway extends 4,969 feet. There are no commercial flights available.

* There is one radio station on the Pine Ridge Reservation. KILI 90.1FM is located near the town of Porcupine on the Reservation.

* Alcoholism affects eight out of ten families on the Reservation.

* The death rate from alcohol-related problems on the Reservation is 300% higher than the remaining US population.

* The Oglala Lakota Nation has prohibited the sale and possession of alcohol on the Pine Ridge Reservation since the early 1970's. However, the town of Whiteclay, Nebraska (which sits 400 yards off the Reservation border in a contested "buffer" zone) has approximately 14 residents and four liquor stores which sell over 4.1 million cans of beer each year resulting in a $3million annual trade. Unlike other Nebraska communities, Whiteclay exists only to sell liquor and make money. It has no schools, no churches, no civic organizations, no parks, no benches, no public bathrooms, no fire service and no law enforcement. Tribal officials have repeatedly pleaded with the State of Nebraska to close these liquor stores or enforce the State laws regulating liquor stores but have been consistently refused.

* Scientific studies show that the High Plains/Oglala Aquifer which begins underneath the Pine Ridge Reservation is predicted to run dry within the next thirty years, possibly as early as the year 2005, due to commercial interest use and dryland farming in numerous states south of the Reservation. This critical North American underground water resource is not renewable at anything near the present consumption rate. The recent years of drought have simply accelerated the problem.

* Scientific studies show that much of the High Plains/Oglala Aquifer has been contaminated with farming pesticides and commercial, factory, mining, and industrial contaminants in the States of South Dakota, Wyoming, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas.

* The Tribal nations are considered to have sovereign governmental status and have a government to government relationship with the United States. The Oglala Lakota Sioux Tribal government operates under a constitution consistent with the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 and approved by the Tribal membership and Tribal Council of the Oglala Lakota Sioux Tribe. The Tribe is governed by an elected body consisting of a 5 member Executive Committee and an 18 member Tribal Council, all of whom serve a four year term.
That is lack of socialism. Socialism would give them a living wage and Medicaid and housing, not GOP suffering and discrimination and lack of services d u h....
 
The argument was to get rid of the insurance, make consumers of health care pay out of pocket and the price will drop accordingly.

Not going to happen.

Probably not. But it would reduce prices.

Doubtful.

The MRI in your local hospital is probably made by either Seimens or GE. Next get MRIs costs about 2M each. Maintenance contracts alone run into the six figures. This thing has got to work flawlessly. Unless your hospital was constructed in the 80’s and hasn’t upgraded from the single dimensional resolution (also doubtful), the campus your visiting is probably still paying tens of thousands a month in their lease agreement on the MRI. Covering that has to come from somewhere. The price won’t magically go down from Seimens because Aetna is no longer in the picture. Sorry.

Wow.... how can you ignore what is so painfully obvious?
You tell me. You’re the one doing it.

If that's how much MRI's cost, then - we - can't - afford - them. Why is that so hard to understand?
Sorry. It costs money to make these machines; it costs money to maintain these machines. We can make less accurate machines and hire terrible technicians I suppose but healthcare will suffer.

If we face that fact like sober adults, instead of clicking our heels three times and pretending government can wave a wand and make MRIs cheaper, then we can get to work finding alternatives we can afford. As it is, we're too preoccupied with schemes to get someone else to pay for it. The cheaper alternatives are never explored, and prices continue to rise.

Gee, if only we had a President who would force you to purchase your own insurance so the government wouldn’t have to “wave a wand” like you pretend they do….

Oh wait, we did. Every republican on earth opposed it. Now you see more and more GOP states expanding insurance in every possible way. From just this week...

View attachment 228013

As I recall Kentucky, Tennessee and Georgia expanded their Medicaid already.
————

The costs are the costs. Be it Healthcare or any other field you wish to name.
When expanded medicaid was made available and states were given a choice, 26 states adopted it. Today the number has increased to 37 states. In most of the 14 states that have not adopted it there's a strong movement to adopt it or an alternative plan. By 2024, many insurance specialist expect there will be 2 major single payer systems available in all states, Medicare and Expanded Medicaid.
 

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