Health Care - we gotta fix this shit...

[Howard Roark]

Before you jump into a thread and make an idiot of yourself, try reading the OP. We're not discussing ACA. We're talking about the suggestion that we should adopt single payer, not ACA.

Single Payer has a lot of advantages but getting there would be difficult if not impossible without a phased approached.

The easiest and most painless way to get to single payer is to simply extend the Medicare minimum age requirement. For example, we could extend the minimum age in 5 year increments every 5 years. In 50 years, everyone over 20 would be on single payer. The final step would be to pickup the children and remainder of the population. With the exception of supplemental insurance, Medicare would replace essential all private insurance, Medicaid, and most VA healthcare. This plan would give the insurance companies, the government and the healthcare industry time to make changes in the business model.

With Single Payer, everyone is covered. It doesn’t matter if you are rich or you are poor. In a single payer system, health care is a right instead of being treated as a privilege.

Rates are the same. Patients don’t need to worry about a doctors deciding to charge them $320 per hour for a visit because their health insurance allows for that maximum. There aren’t different rates for people who are insured vs. those who are uninsured either. Rate consistency allows medical providers to know exactly what they’ll receive and patients know they will receive the care they need.

Cost go down in single payer system. Serious diseases can be caught earlier. Economies of scale reduce costs. Healthcare billing and claim processing is simplified. Insurance costs are eliminated. Administrative overhead (also known as “transaction costs”) consumes one-third of current health spending in the U.S. which can be all but eliminated.

Today Healthcare providers compete by eliminating completion through mergers, acquisitions, and formation of networks. Making cost comparison is more often than not impossible under our current system. If you ask almost any healthcare provider what your cost will be for a costly procedure you are most likely going here it all depends. In many cases, hospitals will refuse to provide you with costs figures.

Contrary to popular belief, single payer provides more opportunity for competition than our current healthcare system. In a single payer system, providers compete based on quality of service provided and features they offer that the competition does not offer.

Lol
First of all you need to remove the socialist cock out of your mouth...
Who pays for all this shit? Why must the healthy pay for the unhealthy?
As with any government run program fraud will always be rampant...
What about Choice? Why force people that want nothing to do with socialist entitlement programs into them? especially when they can’t afford them and will not benefit them.

The money you're paying now for VA, Medicaid, Tricare. It shifts from these programs and everyone under one roof. No different than now.

Do you think auto insurance would go down, if they didn't have to pay for medical coverage for accidents?

No

Let me rephrase:
Do you think is SHOULD go down? Liability is the biggest cost w/respect to auto insurance

 

[rightwinger]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

Oh perfect! The government can do oversight!

Rather than your boss having oversight or the insurance companies making for profit decisions?

Ask old people how they like Medicare

 

[debbiedowner]

Single Payer has a lot of advantages but getting there would be difficult if not impossible without a phased approached.

The easiest and most painless way to get to single payer is to simply extend the Medicare minimum age requirement. For example, we could extend the minimum age in 5 year increments every 5 years. In 50 years, everyone over 20 would be on single payer. The final step would be to pickup the children and remainder of the population. With the exception of supplemental insurance, Medicare would replace essential all private insurance, Medicaid, and most VA healthcare. This plan would give the insurance companies, the government and the healthcare industry time to make changes in the business model.

With Single Payer, everyone is covered. It doesn’t matter if you are rich or you are poor. In a single payer system, health care is a right instead of being treated as a privilege.

Rates are the same. Patients don’t need to worry about a doctors deciding to charge them $320 per hour for a visit because their health insurance allows for that maximum. There aren’t different rates for people who are insured vs. those who are uninsured either. Rate consistency allows medical providers to know exactly what they’ll receive and patients know they will receive the care they need.

Cost go down in single payer system. Serious diseases can be caught earlier. Economies of scale reduce costs. Healthcare billing and claim processing is simplified. Insurance costs are eliminated. Administrative overhead (also known as “transaction costs”) consumes one-third of current health spending in the U.S. which can be all but eliminated.

Today Healthcare providers compete by eliminating completion through mergers, acquisitions, and formation of networks. Making cost comparison is more often than not impossible under our current system. If you ask almost any healthcare provider what your cost will be for a costly procedure you are most likely going here it all depends. In many cases, hospitals will refuse to provide you with costs figures.

Contrary to popular belief, single payer provides more opportunity for competition than our current healthcare system. In a single payer system, providers compete based on quality of service provided and features they offer that the competition does not offer.

Lol
First of all you need to remove the socialist cock out of your mouth...
Who pays for all this shit? Why must the healthy pay for the unhealthy?
As with any government run program fraud will always be rampant...
What about Choice? Why force people that want nothing to do with socialist entitlement programs into them? especially when they can’t afford them and will not benefit them.

The money you're paying now for VA, Medicaid, Tricare. It shifts from these programs and everyone under one roof. No different than now.

Make it an opt in, For the people that want to participate. It does not require everyone to participate...
That way Those that do not want to participate are automatically excluded from enrollment

Ok, Ok, Ok you can opt out. We get it you want nothing to do with health insurance in any form or fashion. I do believe the board would go along and let you sit out, no one cares about you.

No, an opt out means nothing.
People need to opt in to programs like socialize medicine, that way no one is automatically enrolled in the shit

I'm working on an "OPT OUT" badge for you to wear on your lapel. As soon as I'm finished I will mail it to you.

 

[debbiedowner]

Insurance companies would be removed from the equation, save for those who want to pay for private insurance as a backup plan, or a primary plan.

Uh, no. That's not how Medicare works. They just farm it out to private insurance companies who have lobbied government for the favor.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits

Here's more info if you're interested:

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

Yes, I knew that.

I was responding to Howard Roark - who had claimed that "Insurance companies would be removed from the equation." If Medicare for All is what we're going for, they'll be right in middle of things. And, as long as they keep their lobbyists well paid, shoveling in the profits.

Insurance companies would be removed from the equation, save for those who want to pay for private insurance as a backup plan, or a primary plan.

Uh, no. That's not how Medicare works. They just farm it out to private insurance companies who have lobbied government for the favor.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits

Not true. You're citing supplemental insurance coverage. As I mentioned in the post you quoted

No he's not quoting supplemental coverage it's Medicare claims. Most insurance companies handle their own claims for supplemental coverage, most.

 

[Rustic]

Lol
First of all you need to remove the socialist cock out of your mouth...
Who pays for all this shit? Why must the healthy pay for the unhealthy?
As with any government run program fraud will always be rampant...
What about Choice? Why force people that want nothing to do with socialist entitlement programs into them? especially when they can’t afford them and will not benefit them.

The money you're paying now for VA, Medicaid, Tricare. It shifts from these programs and everyone under one roof. No different than now.

Make it an opt in, For the people that want to participate. It does not require everyone to participate...
That way Those that do not want to participate are automatically excluded from enrollment

Ok, Ok, Ok you can opt out. We get it you want nothing to do with health insurance in any form or fashion. I do believe the board would go along and let you sit out, no one cares about you.

No, an opt out means nothing.
People need to opt in to programs like socialize medicine, that way no one is automatically enrolled in the shit

I'm working on an "OPT OUT" badge for you to wear on your lapel. As soon as I'm finished I will mail it to you.

An opt out does no one any good.
All socialist entitlement programs should be an opt in.
That way no one finds themselves in shit they don’t want

 

[deanrd]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

The GOP fix has been die quick for decades. Why would the GOP start wanting to help the middle class and poor people now? They haven’t before.
I don’t even know a republican that is interested in helping poor people or the middle class. Maybe that’s why they treat their own people so terribly in Appalachia?

 

[debbiedowner]

The money you're paying now for VA, Medicaid, Tricare. It shifts from these programs and everyone under one roof. No different than now.

Make it an opt in, For the people that want to participate. It does not require everyone to participate...
That way Those that do not want to participate are automatically excluded from enrollment

Ok, Ok, Ok you can opt out. We get it you want nothing to do with health insurance in any form or fashion. I do believe the board would go along and let you sit out, no one cares about you.

No, an opt out means nothing.
People need to opt in to programs like socialize medicine, that way no one is automatically enrolled in the shit

I'm working on an "OPT OUT" badge for you to wear on your lapel. As soon as I'm finished I will mail it to you.

An opt out does no one any good.
All socialist entitlement programs should be an opt in.
That way no one finds themselves in shit they don’t want

Ok then I'll make you two lapel badges one for opt in and one for opt out and you can wear one or the other depending on how you feel on a particular day. What the hell man you can't beat that.

 

[Rustic]

Make it an opt in, For the people that want to participate. It does not require everyone to participate...
That way Those that do not want to participate are automatically excluded from enrollment

Ok, Ok, Ok you can opt out. We get it you want nothing to do with health insurance in any form or fashion. I do believe the board would go along and let you sit out, no one cares about you.

No, an opt out means nothing.
People need to opt in to programs like socialize medicine, that way no one is automatically enrolled in the shit

I'm working on an "OPT OUT" badge for you to wear on your lapel. As soon as I'm finished I will mail it to you.

An opt out does no one any good.
All socialist entitlement programs should be an opt in.
That way no one finds themselves in shit they don’t want

Ok then I'll make you two lapel badges one for opt in and one for opt out and you can wear one or the other depending on how you feel on a particular day. What the hell man you can't beat that.

Na, Just make it like I don’t even exist to the federal government. That would be fine with me

 

[WillowTree]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

Oh perfect! The government can do oversight!

Rather than your boss having oversight or the insurance companies making for profit decisions?

Ask old people how they like Medicare

Ask old people how many years they paid into Medicare before they drew a dime! Get back to me.

 

[Rustic]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

The GOP fix has been die quick for decades. Why would the GOP start wanting to help the middle class and poor people now? They haven’t before.
I don’t even know a republican that is interested in helping poor people or the middle class. Maybe that’s why they treat their own people so terribly in Appalachia?

This isn’t supposed to be a nanny State...
People need to take care of their own shit

 

[Redfish]

IMHO the only real fix is to go back to what we had 50 years, you paid your doctor out of your pocket for routine treatment and most prescriptions cost less than $10. Insurance only kicked in if you were hospitalized. We did not expect insurance, or medicare, or Medicaid to pay for routine stuff, and the poor got treatment at the ER or a free clinic. It worked for generations.

Do you not understand that insurance policy that simply covers routine treatments and sub-$10 prescriptions would cost alsmot nothing and be USEFUL TO NO ONE?

I think you misunderstood the post. Redfish is saying that those things should be paid for out-of-pocket, and not via insurance. Insurance should only be for unforeseen calamities, not routine expenses.

But that won't bring prices down.

of course it would, if less is "insured" then the price of insurance would go down.

 

[debbiedowner]

Single Payer has a lot of advantages but getting there would be difficult if not impossible without a phased approached.

The easiest and most painless way to get to single payer is to simply extend the Medicare minimum age requirement. For example, we could extend the minimum age in 5 year increments every 5 years. In 50 years, everyone over 20 would be on single payer. The final step would be to pickup the children and remainder of the population. With the exception of supplemental insurance, Medicare would replace essential all private insurance, Medicaid, and most VA healthcare. This plan would give the insurance companies, the government and the healthcare industry time to make changes in the business model.

With Single Payer, everyone is covered. It doesn’t matter if you are rich or you are poor. In a single payer system, health care is a right instead of being treated as a privilege.

Rates are the same. Patients don’t need to worry about a doctors deciding to charge them $320 per hour for a visit because their health insurance allows for that maximum. There aren’t different rates for people who are insured vs. those who are uninsured either. Rate consistency allows medical providers to know exactly what they’ll receive and patients know they will receive the care they need.

Cost go down in single payer system. Serious diseases can be caught earlier. Economies of scale reduce costs. Healthcare billing and claim processing is simplified. Insurance costs are eliminated. Administrative overhead (also known as “transaction costs”) consumes one-third of current health spending in the U.S. which can be all but eliminated.

Today Healthcare providers compete by eliminating completion through mergers, acquisitions, and formation of networks. Making cost comparison is more often than not impossible under our current system. If you ask almost any healthcare provider what your cost will be for a costly procedure you are most likely going here it all depends. In many cases, hospitals will refuse to provide you with costs figures.

Contrary to popular belief, single payer provides more opportunity for competition than our current healthcare system. In a single payer system, providers compete based on quality of service provided and features they offer that the competition does not offer.

Lol
First of all you need to remove the socialist cock out of your mouth...
Who pays for all this shit? Why must the healthy pay for the unhealthy?
As with any government run program fraud will always be rampant...
What about Choice? Why force people that want nothing to do with socialist entitlement programs into them? especially when they can’t afford them and will not benefit them.

The money you're paying now for VA, Medicaid, Tricare. It shifts from these programs and everyone under one roof. No different than now.

Do you think auto insurance would go down, if they didn't have to pay for medical coverage for accidents?

No

Let me rephrase:
Do you think is SHOULD go down? Liability is the biggest cost w/respect to auto insurance

Hell most auto policies only cover you for $10,000 of your own medical expenses anyway. Well I guess it might be different in at fault state. Liability of other's is the kicker so no I don't think it will ever go down.

 

[Redfish]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

Oh perfect! The government can do oversight!

Rather than your boss having oversight or the insurance companies making for profit decisions?

Ask old people how they like Medicare

basic medicare only pays at most 80% of some, not all, medical costs. If you buy a medicare advantage or supplement plan you can get almost everything covered, but its not free. Nothing is free, winger, and we paid into medicare every week from our paychecks our entire working lives. Trying to extend medicare to 330 million people would not work, there simply isn't enough money in the federal budget. Ask any Brit how they like their national health service, ask them how long they wait for basic procedures and tests. It sucks.

 

[debbiedowner]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

The GOP fix has been die quick for decades. Why would the GOP start wanting to help the middle class and poor people now? They haven’t before.
I don’t even know a republican that is interested in helping poor people or the middle class. Maybe that’s why they treat their own people so terribly in Appalachia?

This isn’t supposed to be a nanny State...
People need to take care of their own shit

That calls for another badge "TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN SHIT" Hell before you know it you will have to buy a special vest to wear all your badges.

 

[Redfish]

Lol
First of all you need to remove the socialist cock out of your mouth...
Who pays for all this shit? Why must the healthy pay for the unhealthy?
As with any government run program fraud will always be rampant...
What about Choice? Why force people that want nothing to do with socialist entitlement programs into them? especially when they can’t afford them and will not benefit them.

The money you're paying now for VA, Medicaid, Tricare. It shifts from these programs and everyone under one roof. No different than now.

Do you think auto insurance would go down, if they didn't have to pay for medical coverage for accidents?

No

Let me rephrase:
Do you think is SHOULD go down? Liability is the biggest cost w/respect to auto insurance

Hell most auto policies only cover you for $10,000 of your own medical expenses anyway. Well I guess it might be different in at fault state. Liability of other's is the kicker so no I don't think it will ever go down.

what could make it go down would be to cap judgement amounts and get lawyers out of it. ambulance chasers are a significant factor in auto insurance rates.

 

[Redfish]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

The GOP fix has been die quick for decades. Why would the GOP start wanting to help the middle class and poor people now? They haven’t before.
I don’t even know a republican that is interested in helping poor people or the middle class. Maybe that’s why they treat their own people so terribly in Appalachia?

which party passed the across the board tax cut that cut the tax rate of everyone that pays taxes? Which party has created middle class jobs over the last two years? Which party is responsible for the growth in your 401K account? hint: not the dems.

 

[Howard Roark]

Lol
First of all you need to remove the socialist cock out of your mouth...
Who pays for all this shit? Why must the healthy pay for the unhealthy?
As with any government run program fraud will always be rampant...
What about Choice? Why force people that want nothing to do with socialist entitlement programs into them? especially when they can’t afford them and will not benefit them.

The money you're paying now for VA, Medicaid, Tricare. It shifts from these programs and everyone under one roof. No different than now.

Do you think auto insurance would go down, if they didn't have to pay for medical coverage for accidents?

No

Let me rephrase:
Do you think is SHOULD go down? Liability is the biggest cost w/respect to auto insurance

Hell most auto policies only cover you for $10,000 of your own medical expenses anyway. Well I guess it might be different in at fault state. Liability of other's is the kicker so no I don't think it will ever go down.

In theory, 'the others' would be covered already for any hospitalization. Thus my question

 

[Howard Roark]

Uh, no. That's not how Medicare works. They just farm it out to private insurance companies who have lobbied government for the favor.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits

Not true. You're citing supplemental insurance coverage. As I mentioned in the post you quoted[/QUOTE]

No, it's true. I'm not saying you're stupid or anything. It's a common misconception.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy[/QUOTE]LOL...I didn't get the impression that you said I was stupid. Your first link offered info on typical supplemental insurance plans. I had already addressed that in a previous post. This link is interesting. It seems the govt. defers to those who are in the business to decide on what should/should not be covered. I'm guessing that leads to the need for supplemental plans? Ironically, we read a lot about how providers are paid by private insurance only what Medicare pays for the same procedures.

Remember...I'm not calling for an immediate Medicare for all approach. I want the choice to buy into Medicare, as I'm very healthy, take no meds, and would benefit from what should be lower costs. I'm only a few years away from Medicare eligibility anyway, but if millions of healthier people opted to purchase a Medicare plan, all parties would benefit.

 

[francoHFW]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

The GOP fix has been die quick for decades. Why would the GOP start wanting to help the middle class and poor people now? They haven’t before.
I don’t even know a republican that is interested in helping poor people or the middle class. Maybe that’s why they treat their own people so terribly in Appalachia?

which party passed the across the board tax cut that cut the tax rate of everyone that pays taxes? Which party has created middle class jobs over the last two years? Which party is responsible for the growth in your 401K account? hint: not the dems.

Funny how more jobs were produced under Obama than now, super duper. Only cost a trillion and a half dollars and extra debt under Trump...

 

[Howard Roark]

which party passed the across the board tax cut that cut the tax rate of everyone that pays taxes? Which party has created middle class jobs over the last two years? Which party is responsible for the growth in your 401K account? hint: not the dems.

Which party almost passed a bogus healthcare bill that would have taken access away from millions of people? They needed to kill ACA in order to do away with that pesky 3.8% cap gains tax on high earners.

Your claims about the tax cut are laughable, and your 401k value changes like the weather in this unstable market.
Hint...trump's job creation in the last two years still doesn't match Obama's in his last two years in office.