Here is the Ray Epps Footage and J6 Testimony You WON"T See on 60 Minutes Tomorrow, as They Try to Paint Him as the Victim

[Skylar]

"Go into the capitol!" ....Not incitement.

The day before, on January 5th. Not on January 6th.

Incitement requires advocacy of imminent lawless action. Says who? Says the Supreme Court in Brandenburg v. Ohio.

There's nothing imminent about a statement made the day before. No prosecutor would touch this. And there's no evidence that Epps incited anyone to attack the capitol on January 6th, let alone attack cops, or try to hang Mike Pence.

As I said, 80 to 90% of right wing conspiracies about the law and judiciary.....are wingers not understanding how the law works. And trying to replace it with their imagination.

 

[Skylar]

Well, again, if Epps cooperated with the police, perhaps the FBI should give details of what happened. The FBI refusing to say whether he was or wasn't an informant is just giving people the excuse they need.

These people had already invented the conspiracy. They needed nothing to internally justify their imagination. They didn't use evidence to form their fantasy that Ray Epps worked for the FBI. Why would evidence convince them of anything?

There's jackshit that Ray Epps worked for the FBI. Literally nothing.

Nor has anyone been able to name a crime that Epps could be plausibly charged with.

 

[Oddball]

it's clear there's a problem with how the FBI is handling this whole thing.

Not a problem as far as the FBI is concerned....They'll tell their story to media hacks and that's the narrative.

Case closed.

Now move along, you conspiracy loon.

 

[Oddball]

The day before, on January 5th. Not on January 6th.

Incitement requires advocacy of imminent lawless action. Says who? Says the Supreme Court in Brandenburg v. Ohio.

There's nothing imminent about a statement made the day before. No prosecutor would touch this. And there's no evidence that Epps told anyone to go into the capitol on January 6th, let alone attack cops, or try to hang Mike Pence.

As I said, 80 to 90% of right wing conspiracies about the law and judiciary.....are wingers not understanding how the law works. And trying to replace it with their imagination.

Do you like the grape or cherry Kool-Aid best?

 

[frigidweirdo]

These people had already invented the conspiracy. They needed nothing to internally justify their imagination. They didn't use evidence to form their fantasy that Ray Epps worked for the FBI. Why would evidence convince them of anything?

There's jackshit that Ray Epps worked for the FBI. Literally nothing.

Nor has anyone been able to name a crime that Epps could be plausibly charged with.

And yet we know how these people work, we know that the more honest you are, the harder it is to have a conspiracy theory, and the FBI doesn't seem that interested to stopping the conspiracy theories....

 

[Skylar]

Do you like the grape or cherry Kool-Aid best?

I'll stick with Supreme Court rulings, thank you. And the precedent for imminent lawless action they set in Brandenburg v. Ohio.

Just because you don't understand the law and ignore the Supreme Court doesn't mean there is some elaborate conspiracy.

It just means you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Skylar]

And yet we know how these people work, we know that the more honest you are, the harder it is to have a conspiracy theory, and the FBI doesn't seem that interested to stopping the conspiracy theories....

That's nonsense. The way these people work is to invent a story from nothing. And then cling to it until they die.

There's no evidence that Ray Epps worked for the FBI. Literally nothing. Nor can anyone name a crime that Epps could plausibly be charged with.

Quite the contrary. There's video of Epps trying to calm a crowd and putting himself between cops and the protesters. There's testimony from Ryan Samsel, insurrectionist, that before Ryan attacked the police, Epps tried to take him aside and told him that the cops were only doing their jobs.

And yet here we are. Years later. With this same stupid conspiracy theory being offered as gospel truth, despite nothing backing it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That's nonsense. The way these people work is to invent a story from nothing. And then cling to it until they die.

There's no evidence that Ray Epps worked for the FBI. Literally nothing. Nor can anyone name a crime that Epps could plausibly be charged with. Quite the contrary. There's video of Epps trying to calm a crowd and putting himself between cops and the protesters. There's testimony from Ryan Samsel, insurrectionist, that Epps told him that the cops were only doing their jobs.

And yet here we are. Years later. With this same stupid conspiracy theory being offered as gospel truth, despite nothing backing it.

It's not nonsense, yes, someone will invent stories, probably being funded by Koch brother money. However a story has to stick, and to stick it needs something.
This story has that, and everything it has comes from the way the FBI has handled it.

It doesn't matter whether there's evidence he worked for the FBI, if he had have worked for the FBI, they wouldn't be publicizing it. But they refused to say whether he had or had not worked for the FBI. Why? Why not just say "no"?
The amount of evidence out there seems to be rather limited. The evidence you're using to say he didn't do anything wrong doesn't tell the whole story and we probably won't know the whole story. Another problem.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it's another conspiracy theory, all I'm saying is that the FBI could have handled this a lot better.

 

[Skylar]

It's not nonsense, yes, someone will invent stories, probably being funded by Koch brother money. However a story has to stick, and to stick it needs something.

No, it genuinely doesn't. Ray Epps is literally on camera doing the exact opposite of what he's being accused of doing.


There's nothing to back the claim that Ray Epps has ever worked for the FBI. There's no plausible crime that Epps could be charged with.

And yet our board conservatives cling to this fantasy story that the entire J6 attack on the capitol was *started* by Epps, who was working for the FBI.

You literally need nothing but the story with conservatives. The idea that evidence convinces people that invent conspiracy fantasies without evidence is a premise debunked by its description

 

[Oddball]

I'll stick with Supreme Court rulings, thank you. And the precedent for imminent lawless action they set in Brandenburg v. Ohio.

Just because you don't understand the law and ignore the Supreme Court doesn't mean there is some elaborate conspiracy.

It just means you have no idea what you're talking about.

I understand just fine......Except for the part where you leftbat lunatics will go to your graves defending a red hat wearing "insurrectionist".

Everyone around him is a "threat to mocracy"...But ole Ray dindunuffin!

You're either hopelessly stupid or fucking evil.

 

[Skylar]

frigidweirdo As yet another demonstration of conservatives debunking your theory about 'something to hang it on'.....is the attack on Paul Pelosi. With ZERO evidence, they invented an elaborate and oddly specific gay sex fantasy where Paul's attacker was invited in for a late night tryst.

And despite video of his attacker breaking in, video of his attacker smashing Paul with a hammer, and not one but TWO confessions from the attacker about the political motivations of his attack and how he broken in and held Paul hostage.....

.....the absurd gay sex fantasy cooked up in rightwing fever dreams persists.

These people don't need a thing to invent their insane conspiracies. Not anymore.

 

[Oddball]

It's not nonsense, yes, someone will invent stories, probably being funded by Koch brother money. However a story has to stick, and to stick it needs something.
This story has that, and everything it has comes from the way the FBI has handled it.

It doesn't matter whether there's evidence he worked for the FBI, if he had have worked for the FBI, they wouldn't be publicizing it. But they refused to say whether he had or had not worked for the FBI. Why? Why not just say "no"?
The amount of evidence out there seems to be rather limited. The evidence you're using to say he didn't do anything wrong doesn't tell the whole story and we probably won't know the whole story. Another problem.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it's another conspiracy theory, all I'm saying is that the FBI could have handled this a lot better.

Occam's razor...


The couldn't handle it a lot better because they're lying.

 

[Skylar]

I understand just fine......Except for the part where you leftbat lunatics will go to your graves defending a red hat wearing "insurrectionist".

Everyone around him is a "threat to mocracy"...But ole Ray dindunuffin!

You're either hopelessly stupid or fucking evil.

You don't understand a thing. You're calling for charges of incitement for statements made the night before. There's nothing 'imminent' about a statement made on a different day, at a different location, with several meals and a good night's sleep between the statement and the lawless action.

Justice Brennan described where your understanding fails perfectly:

The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.”

There's nothing 'imminent' about statements made the night before. Its thus protected speech. No prosecutor would touch that with a 10 foot poll. It wouldn't stick.

And no prosecutor has.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, it genuinely doesn't. Ray Epps is literally on camera doing the exact opposite of what he's being accused of doing.


There's nothing to back the claim that Ray Epps has ever worked for the FBI. There's no plausible crime that Epps could be charged with.

And yet our board conservatives cling to this fantasy story that the entire J6 attack on the capitol was *started* by Epps, who was working for the FBI.

You literally need nothing but the story with conservatives. The idea that evidence convinces people that invent conspiracy fantasies without evidence is a premise debunked by its description

It doesn't really matter if there's anything that shows he worked for the FBI. If the FBI refuse to say he didn't work for them, that's a PROBLEM. Clearly. As we're seeing.

 

[Skylar]

Occam's razor...


The couldn't handle it a lot better because they're lying

Occam's Razor is not your friend.

 

[Skylar]

It doesn't really matter if there's anything that shows he worked for the FBI. If the FBI refuse to say he didn't work for them, that's a PROBLEM. Clearly. As we're seeing.

Ray Epps has said he doesn't work for the FBI....and they completely ignored him, saying he was lying.

But they trust the FBI more? Of course not.

Your assumption that if only the FBI had done the same, that wingers wouldn't have invented this conspiracy is debunked by their dismissal as lies anything that contradicts their story. Any statement, from any source.

Evidence won't convince those who ignore evidence. Or those who imagine conspiracies based on nothing.

 

[Oddball]

You don't understand a thing. You're calling for charges of incitement for statements made the night before. There's nothing 'imminent' about a statement made on a different day, at a different location, with several meals and a good night's sleep between the statement and the lawless action.

Justice Brennan described where your understanding fails perfectly:

The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.”

There's nothing 'imminent' about statements made the night before. No prosecutor would touch that with a 10 foot poll. It wouldn't stick. And no prosecutor has.

"Free speech" to be on numerous videos waving people into the Capitol, in order to participate in an "insurrection".

The only person wearing a red hat on that day whom you fifth columnist freaks will defend to the death.....Bizarre.

 

[frigidweirdo]

frigidweirdo As yet another demonstration of conservatives debunking your theory about 'something to hang it on'.....is the attack on Paul Pelosi. With ZERO evidence, they invented an elaborate and oddly specific gay sex fantasy where Paul's attacker was invited in for a late night tryst.

And despite video of his attacker breaking in, video of his attacker smashing Paul with a hammer, and not one but TWO confessions from the attacker about the political motivations of his attack and how he broken in and held Paul hostage.....

.....the absurd gay sex fantasy cooked up in rightwing fever dreams persists.

These people don't need a thing to invent their insane conspiracies. Not anymore.

The reality is that people know that the narrative given is not always the truth.

We live in an age of narratives.

Let's try this narrative: man made global warming.
I've chosen this one because the left is so wrong on this, and yet they cling to it. I'm left wing, and it's embarrassing. I even had a Geography teacher tell me I'm wrong, literally teaching high school kids a load of crap simply because this is what he's been told.

I posted evidence for a spike in temperatures every 100,000 years or so and the Milankovich Cycles, he didn't even bother with those because he KNOWS.

Now, if you were right wing and you saw such blatantly false narratives being pushed, the more of them that are pushed, the easier it is to go against anything that comes in the future. You can claim that they're hiding things, that things aren't as they seem.

Especially, and this is important, when you're born into a religious society where believing the unbelievable is a given. Believing that a man died and then was reborn, that he could feed loads of people from a few fish, that he could walk on water. You get that sort of mentality and everything goes.

The US is heading towards that kind of future where there's no trust in the government. I don't trust the US government. We literally know they lied about WMDs in Iraq, we know how they lied, the US govt has literally published a report on it.

Without that trust, the US is FUCKED, and I think what we're seeing right now is only the beginning of that. Trump is using this situation for his own personal gain and doesn't give a damn about the US as a country, pretty obvious, but those that come after might be more ruthless.

Only one way to stop it. Proportional Representation.

 

[Skylar]

"Free speech" to be on numerous videos waving people into the Capitol, in order to participate in an "insurrection".

Show me the videos. Because the videos in the OP certainly don't show that.

Can I take it from your abandonment or the OP's accusations and videos that we can put that nonsense to bed now?

 

[Oddball]

Occam's Razor is not your friend.

It is my friend and not yours.

Out of over 100,000 people on the scene that day wearing a red hat, Ray Epps is the only dude that you moonbat freaks will defend until your last dying breath.