Here We Go: Teacher Shortages 22-23

[Lisa558]

Sorry to disagree.

Summers off was not due to schools not being air-conditioned. Summers off are based on an agrarian society (agricultural) and the children needing to be off for summer work on the farms. The agrarian based schedule precedes the development of air conditioning.

WW

OK, then….I learned something! Thank you.

 

[WorldWatcher]

OK, then….I learned something! Thank you.

No problem.

(Personal Opinion: That's why the plow is the best invention in the entire history of humanity and the greatest contributor to society. Without it we would have been doomed to nomadic hunter-gatherer tribes forever.)

WW

 

[flan327]

When I went to grade school in the public school system, we usually got out around June 5 and went back after Labor Day.

Nothing personal, but I never thought much of the government educating people, and I know its far worse now.

Thank God I had parents that got me out of public school after six years of hell.

Bet your teachers were thankful

 

[flan327]

Those kids in MN act like that because cops have made themselves the enemy. That's why they act like that.

Again, your side has spent decades demonizing liberal teachers and liberal teacher unions.



Um, wow, how is that any different than any other job? If you piss off the customers, you won't have a job for long. Parents are ultimately the customer of your profession. Some of them are happy if they just have 6 hours of free day care. Others get rightfully pissed off if little Timmy comes home not knowing how to read.



So you get 3 months of paid vacation? That's kind of awesome. What are you bitching about again?


Here are the real problems in education that I see... which is why 50% of new teachers don't last 5 years. And yes, some of these thoughts will not be terribly liberal.

1) The Teacher Unions make it impossible to fire inept or bad teachers.
2) Too many resources are dedicated to "Special Ed"- which means they spend thousands of dollars accommodating Corky the retard while neglecting kids who are actually going to be part of the workforce some day.
3) Teaching to the test. We make these kids take too many damned tests, we teach to the test, and if it isn't on the test, they don't bother with it. So not surprising that these kids crash and burn when they get to college or a job.
4) Geographic/economic inequity - Because the affluent don't have to send their kids to the urban schools, they don't care about them. I remember a while back when it was revealed that a high bureaucrat at the CPS sent her kids to private schools because CPS Schools weren't very good. There was a big outcry... from people who also send THEIR kids to private schools.

(Full Disclosure- I went to a Catholic School that has given Chicago FOUR Mayors, including both Mayor Daleys. )

Too bad they didn’t teach you that “Corky the Retard” is DISGUSTING

 

[initforme]

Why would you say that? The American Dream IS a nice home, a nice vacation, plenty of food, etc., etc.

In my case, it’s an upscale townhouse in an affluent area of town, vacations that are things like a cruise through the Greek Islands or a 2-week tour of Israel (staying in 5-star hotels), a late model car, dining out at decent restaurants, an occasional evening at the theater, etc., etc. (Of course, the Dems are intent on destroying that, but that’s another topic.) Why is that not an enjoyable lifestyle to work toward attaining, and then enjoying it when I have?

Work full time. Live with ones parents until mid 30s. Don't get married and don't have kids. The trend is growing. It's not a bad thing either. It results in saving $ which is what America is all about.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

With the way the lib teachers are indoctrinating their students, and gay teachers telling 5-year-olds its OK to be gay, and having assignments to give examples of “how to disrupt the nuclear family,” maybe that’s a good thing!

How many schools do you actually think do that?

 

[initforme]

Money won’t solve the problem. In Northern Virginia, teachers reach $100k easily - and that’s with summers off. Yet they are still having trouble filling positions, and that’s because of all the leftist “woke” shit making teaching a very unattractive career option.

I wouldn’t do it for $200k.

Add to that the fact that americans bash teachers and show a disdain for even the ones they consider good.

 

[SweetSue92]

Money won’t solve the problem. In Northern Virginia, teachers reach $100k easily - and that’s with summers off. Yet they are still having trouble filling positions, and that’s because of all the leftist “woke” shit making teaching a very unattractive career option.

I wouldn’t do it for $200k.

Please do tell me--a 28 year teaching veteran--how the "woke shit" makes my job an unattractive career option and/or is making teachers leave the classroom. Then I'd be happy to fill you in on the truth, both from my experience and teacher surveys.

 

[SweetSue92]

Add to that the fact that americans bash teachers and show a disdain for even the ones they consider good.

So this is it in spades.

I went into teaching knowing that I would never make great money, never be able to have the chance to make significantly *better* money. But I love learning, love children and love my discipline, so it seemed to make sense. I was right: I have found it deeply fulfilling despite the obstacles. But going into it NOW--with low pay, long hours and no parental support/respect? I don't know if I would step into it now with 28 years of this ahead of me. It's a tipping point--the one big issue that makes it not worth the trouble. Even if you adore it.

 

[SweetSue92]

It takes decades of work for most college grads to cross the $100k mark as well - as those people work the entire year. Looking at the chart, it looks like many are in the 90s after 20 years, and that means people in the early 40s are closing in on $100k.

Yes, I see how people "work the entire year" to be frank. Some get 6 weeks of vacation off the top. Compare that to our, say, 10 week summer plus three more weeks. But wait, I will start going in next week, two weeks ahead of schedule and though I am not working in school now, I am working from home making lesson plans now. Moreover and as I have said before, I have ZERO--make that ZERO--work flexibility between 8:30-4:00. I can't tell my boss, oh yeah hey, I have a dentist appt so I won't be in until 9:30. Factor all that in and it's very close to a wash.

 

[SweetSue92]

They can work a different job then.

This is the entire point of the thread. We are, in numbers so vast some states are thousands of teachers short. This will explode as many districts reach the beginning of the school year. Some districts are going to four-day weeks.

Free market. Now the market will have to adjust.

 

[Oldestyle]

So this is it in spades.

I went into teaching knowing that I would never make great money, never be able to have the chance to make significantly *better* money. But I love learning, love children and love my discipline, so it seemed to make sense. I was right: I have found it deeply fulfilling despite the obstacles. But going into it NOW--with low pay, long hours and no parental support/respect? I don't know if I would step into it now with 28 years of this ahead of me. It's a tipping point--the one big issue that makes it not worth the trouble. Even if you adore it.

With all due respect, Sue...if teachers provide people's kids with a great education then it's my belief that they WILL support and respect them! People are upset at teachers because during Covid the teacher's Unions didn't seem to care about the kids. People are upset because too many teachers are teaching what is "moral"...something that belongs in the hands of parents.

I graduated with a degree in History and taught for 3 years before getting out of the profession. I did so because I didn't like the direction my administration was taking our school and that was forty years ago. I can't even imagine what it would be like to teach under "woke" rules!

 

[SweetSue92]

Bet your teachers were thankful

Midwit teachers employ the worst of mid-level management techniques and our schools are full of this. FULL of it.

I used to wonder why my profession was obsessed with "classroom management". Yes, it matters a lot. But watching teachers lose their minds over covid, and follow the rules avidly while parroting the insufferable talking points showed me that my profession has nothing else for the most part. We are not a profession of curious thinkers. We are a profession of sheep. Of rule followers.

So when we encounter students who are not that way we just dissolve. Well. Some of us do anyway.

It's sad but all too true.

 

[Oldestyle]

Yes, I see how people "work the entire year" to be frank. Some get 6 weeks of vacation off the top. Compare that to our, say, 10 week summer plus three more weeks. But wait, I will start going in next week, two weeks ahead of schedule and though I am not working in school now, I am working from home making lesson plans now. Moreover and as I have said before, I have ZERO--make that ZERO--work flexibility between 8:30-4:00. I can't tell my boss, oh yeah hey, I have a dentist appt so I won't be in until 9:30. Factor all that in and it's very close to a wash.

How many people in the US do you know that get 6 weeks of vacation, Sue? That's a European thing. Most jobs give two weeks...you're ahead of the game if you get four.

 

[SweetSue92]

With all due respect, Sue...if teachers provide people's kids with a great education then it's my belief that they WILL support and respect them! People are upset at teachers because during Covid the teacher's Unions didn't seem to care about the kids. People are upset because too many teachers are teaching what is "moral"...something that belongs in the hands of parents.

I graduated with a degree in History and taught for 3 years before getting out of the profession. I did you because I didn't like the direction my administration was taking our school and that was forty years ago. I can't even imagine what it would be like to teach under "woke" rules!

1. .....????? Have you looked around at the general adult population these days? You think even if kids are getting a great education THIS general population of adults will "support and respect"? Really?

2. My profession failed during covid. That's a huge understatement. And I hate the union, and do not belong. I agree with both.

3. I don't think you really mean this. I think you mean "controversial" or something. Of COURSE we teach what is moral. "Don't hit your friends. Share the toys. Listen when people are speaking".

4. The woke thing is only partially true for some schools, some teachers. It's not universal. Although we love simple thinking so....just make it seem like every teacher/school does it....

 

[SweetSue92]

How many people in the US do you know that get 6 weeks of vacation, Sue? That's a European thing. Most jobs give two weeks...you're ahead of the game if you get four.

My husband gets six. My daughter stepped into her new job with three. That's just my family.

 

[Oldestyle]

1. .....????? Have you looked around at the general adult population these days? You think even if kids are getting a great education THIS general population of adults will "support and respect"? Really?

2. My profession failed during covid. That's a huge understatement. And I hate the union, and do not belong. I agree with both.

3. I don't think you really mean this. I think you mean "controversial" or something. Of COURSE we teach what is moral. "Don't hit your friends. Share the toys. Listen when people are speaking".

4. The woke thing is only partially true for some schools, some teachers. It's not universal. Although we love simple thinking so....just make it seem like every teacher/school does it....

It would appear you don't have much in the way of respect for the people that you demand respect from, Sue. That's problematic. Teachers have a job to do. Teaching morality however is the job of parents. Are there parents that are going to fail miserably at that? Heck, yeah! There are parents that shouldn't be allowed to own a pet let alone have a child! That doesn't give Education the right to teach kids things in class that their parents would never tell them at home. Sorry but that's crossing a very big line.

 

[Oldestyle]

My husband gets six. My daughter stepped into her new job with three. That's just my family.

I can only assume they are in professions that compete hard for qualified workers? Almost 30% of American workers get no paid vacations at all. The average for those that do is 15 days off after five years of employment.
Here's the thing in the Private Sector however. If I'm a worker with decades of service in? My average of three weeks vacation is simply one more factor that makes me expendable. Why pay me a higher rate along with picking up the cost of covering for my vacations when they can replace me with a younger worker making less and getting less time off?

 

[Lisa558]

Yes, I see how people "work the entire year" to be frank. Some get 6 weeks of vacation off the top. Compare that to our, say, 10 week summer plus three more weeks. But wait, I will start going in next week, two weeks ahead of schedule and though I am not working in school now, I am working from home making lesson plans now. Moreover and as I have said before, I have ZERO--make that ZERO--work flexibility between 8:30-4:00. I can't tell my boss, oh yeah hey, I have a dentist appt so I won't be in until 9:30. Factor all that in and it's very close to a wash.

Very, VERY few get six weeks of vacation a year. The most I ever got was three weeks. I never even worked for a company that had more than four weeks a year, and that was after 15 years of service. Many people get just two weeks a year.

Yet teachers not only get two weeks during the school year (spring and winter breaks), they get another 10 weeks over the summer - for a total of 12 weeks off a year. in fact, you referred to three more weeks during the year - which means a total of 13 weeks!!

So, the three weeks you get off DURING the school year is about what most people get off the entire year. THEN you get the summers off in addition.

The fact that you are drawing up lesson plans a week before school starts, or can’t have a dentist appointment during schooldays, hardly makes it a wash.

 

[flan327]

I WAS A SUBSTITUTE TEACHER

Even though I have an MLS I don’t have a teaching degree

I could sub in the computer lab or the media center or the preschool