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See, the problem you lunatic gun nuts have with incidents like this is cherrypicking individual incidents. When countries do the 3 things I've listed, homicide is reduced, but violence never goes away, that's impossible, however, the facts don't lie.How would any of these prevented this crime?We need universal background checks, waiting periods, and gun buy backs.Universal Background checks! Assault Weapons bans! Waiting periods!
Never mind none of them would have prevented this. In fact nothing would have prevented this. But libs dont let reality stand in the way of their fantasies.
switzerland has mandatory gun ownership laws (for eligible people).Look at their murder rate.....spin that.
Switzerland has a large number of guns....they strictly control the distribution of bullets
I would gladly adopt Switzerlands gun laws
Is Brain lying to you again?Lets face it....we cherish our guns more than we cherish our safety
With 300 million guns out there, there is not much we can do. We love our guns and have grown up looking at guns as a solution to our problems. Our heroes all used guns to shoot up the bad guys and save the day. We have our gun fantasies about facing down a bad guy and blowing him away
So, in order to maintain our fantasies we are willing to put up with 30,000 gun deaths a year. We are willing to have a murder rate four or five times that of other industrialized countries. We are willing to watch a news reporter assasinated on live TV, watch as a racist slaughters nine people praying.....shit, we even did nothing when twenty first graders were slaughtered
This is America and this is the life we have chosen
Guns in the hands of law abiding people stop violent criminals, on average, 2 million times a year….so yes, we value our safety which why we use guns for protection. And those nations you praise, were less violent to begin with long before they gave up their right to self defense, in fact, Britain is 2 times as violent as the U.S., and now the other countries in Europe are importing violent people to commit the gun crimes Europeans don't do……..see Charlie Hebdo, the shootings in Denmark, Sweden, and the recent one on the train…..
Those children who were murdered were in a gun free zone, legally mandated by people like you….so the entire building was defenseless when the killer chose it. Had a staff member been armed, the guy would have committed suicide at the first sign of resistance, how d we know? Because as soon as he heard the police sirens, about 5 minutes into his killing, he killed himself.
2 milion isn't mathematically possible based on crime rates and gun ownership. Give it up already.
That is the average of the studies brain, you can lie about the numbers all you want. I posted the studies, anyone interested can see the actual numbers…and those are actual gun studies, they didn't pull the numbers out of their asses….
Is Brain lying to you again?Lets face it....we cherish our guns more than we cherish our safety
With 300 million guns out there, there is not much we can do. We love our guns and have grown up looking at guns as a solution to our problems. Our heroes all used guns to shoot up the bad guys and save the day. We have our gun fantasies about facing down a bad guy and blowing him away
So, in order to maintain our fantasies we are willing to put up with 30,000 gun deaths a year. We are willing to have a murder rate four or five times that of other industrialized countries. We are willing to watch a news reporter assasinated on live TV, watch as a racist slaughters nine people praying.....shit, we even did nothing when twenty first graders were slaughtered
This is America and this is the life we have chosen
Guns in the hands of law abiding people stop violent criminals, on average, 2 million times a year….so yes, we value our safety which why we use guns for protection. And those nations you praise, were less violent to begin with long before they gave up their right to self defense, in fact, Britain is 2 times as violent as the U.S., and now the other countries in Europe are importing violent people to commit the gun crimes Europeans don't do……..see Charlie Hebdo, the shootings in Denmark, Sweden, and the recent one on the train…..
Those children who were murdered were in a gun free zone, legally mandated by people like you….so the entire building was defenseless when the killer chose it. Had a staff member been armed, the guy would have committed suicide at the first sign of resistance, how d we know? Because as soon as he heard the police sirens, about 5 minutes into his killing, he killed himself.
2 milion isn't mathematically possible based on crime rates and gun ownership. Give it up already.
That is the average of the studies brain, you can lie about the numbers all you want. I posted the studies, anyone interested can see the actual numbers…and those are actual gun studies, they didn't pull the numbers out of their asses….
Yes.
Who can tell us the importance of maintaining loopholes in the background check laws?
What loopholes. A felon can't buy a gun from anyone. Therefore there are no loopholes….ohhhhh…you mean if you buy a gun at a gun show…that fallacy.
Sooo…a felon goes to a gun show. He tells the seller he wants to buy a gun but can't pass a background check…if the seller sells the gun anyway..he just committed a felony and broke the law. No loophole.
If the seller completes the deal, risking a felony and prison time, nothing you do will stop that transaction.
Or do you mean if I sell a gun to a family member?
I asked you a question you didn't answer. As expected.
Your question was completely irrelevant.
You cannot tell us why it is important to maintain loopholes in background check laws, but you claim it's important.
You thus have NO good argument for maintaining those loopholes.
Who can tell us the importance of maintaining loopholes in the background check laws?
What loopholes. A felon can't buy a gun from anyone. Therefore there are no loopholes….ohhhhh…you mean if you buy a gun at a gun show…that fallacy.
Sooo…a felon goes to a gun show. He tells the seller he wants to buy a gun but can't pass a background check…if the seller sells the gun anyway..he just committed a felony and broke the law. No loophole.
If the seller completes the deal, risking a felony and prison time, nothing you do will stop that transaction.
Or do you mean if I sell a gun to a family member?
I asked you a question you didn't answer. As expected.
Your question was completely irrelevant.
You cannot tell us why it is important to maintain loopholes in background check laws, but you claim it's important.
You thus have NO good argument for maintaining those loopholes.
There are no loopholes.
I have him on ignore and allow him to surface only long enough to mock him.You cannot tell what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?You cannot tell us why it is important to maintain loopholes in background check laws, but you claim it's important.Your question was completely irrelevant.
You thus have NO good argument for maintaining those loopholes.
Apparently, you're neither smart enough nor compassionate enough to figure it out.
He cannot address the topic so he has to derail the thread. Don't bother with that idiot.
Everyone, including he, knows that he cannot soundly address the issue at hand and must therefore try to lead us away with a red herring.
He hates it, but he knows there's nothing he can do about it.
You cannot come up with one good reason to keep loopholes in the background check laws and yet you defy the support of 90% of Americans to close those loopholes.
That makes you insane.
Note...The figures for accidental gun deaths with children isn't out yet but 2013….under the age of 14…about 72…..
All accidental gun deaths in 2013… 505
All gun murders (including children) … 8,454
crimes stopped by law abiding citizens using guns… on average 2 million a year.
Even if that 2 million is off by 2 orders of magnitude...
20,000 crimes stopped compared to 9000 deaths.
And you know that the lowest number from all the studies is 764,000 times a year….and even the study of all gun research by the obama CDC in 2013, for 10 million dollars found a study that put the number at 500,000 as the lowest, and 3 million at the highest…and you can bet they were looking for the lowest number possible.
The largest study arrived at 108k. All your numbers are old, crime is down over 30% since those were done. 764k is like 500k in today's numbers.
Hey moron, crime is down because gun ownership is up, idiot.
Not because. WI and IL got concealed carry and violent crime is up.
I have him on ignore and allow him to surface only long enough to mock him.You cannot tell what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Apparently, you're neither smart enough nor compassionate enough to figure it out.
He cannot address the topic so he has to derail the thread. Don't bother with that idiot.
Everyone, including he, knows that he cannot soundly address the issue at hand and must therefore try to lead us away with a red herring.
He hates it, but he knows there's nothing he can do about it.
You cannot come up with one good reason to keep loopholes in the background check laws and yet you defy the support of 90% of Americans to close those loopholes.
That makes you insane.
You want to talk about loopholes, start a thread on it. Quit fucking this thread up with your stupidity.
You are talking about something completely irrelevant to the topic but job. How fucking stupid are you anyway?
[/QUOTE]Gun control measures are directly referenced in the OP.
Are you denying that background checks are a gun control measure? How the fuck does talking about a gun control measure get labeled as irrelevant in a thread about gun control measures?
lol
You can always tell when a RWnut has been skewered, they start crying about something irrelevant.
Opposition to closing loopholes in background check laws makes no sense.
Note...
Even if that 2 million is off by 2 orders of magnitude...
20,000 crimes stopped compared to 9000 deaths.
And you know that the lowest number from all the studies is 764,000 times a year….and even the study of all gun research by the obama CDC in 2013, for 10 million dollars found a study that put the number at 500,000 as the lowest, and 3 million at the highest…and you can bet they were looking for the lowest number possible.
The largest study arrived at 108k. All your numbers are old, crime is down over 30% since those were done. 764k is like 500k in today's numbers.
Hey moron, crime is down because gun ownership is up, idiot.
Not because. WI and IL got concealed carry and violent crime is up.
And Minnesota just passed the 200,000 mark, which is 5% of their population…and their crime rate has gone down. Wisconsin and Chicago just passed concealed carry….and need 5% of the population to get a real effect.
Of course, the gangs in Chicago pick the politicians in their wards, who then vote down hiring police and tightening gun laws…so no, concealed carry isn't the problem in Chicago or Wisconsin…..
And you know that the lowest number from all the studies is 764,000 times a year….and even the study of all gun research by the obama CDC in 2013, for 10 million dollars found a study that put the number at 500,000 as the lowest, and 3 million at the highest…and you can bet they were looking for the lowest number possible.
The largest study arrived at 108k. All your numbers are old, crime is down over 30% since those were done. 764k is like 500k in today's numbers.
Hey moron, crime is down because gun ownership is up, idiot.
Not because. WI and IL got concealed carry and violent crime is up.
Shut up you cherry picking idiot. You cannot have it both ways ass hat.
If it really lowers crime then it shouldn't go up. I believe ownership does not effect crime personally. The claim that it lowers crime is based on cherry picking.
And you know that the lowest number from all the studies is 764,000 times a year….and even the study of all gun research by the obama CDC in 2013, for 10 million dollars found a study that put the number at 500,000 as the lowest, and 3 million at the highest…and you can bet they were looking for the lowest number possible.
The largest study arrived at 108k. All your numbers are old, crime is down over 30% since those were done. 764k is like 500k in today's numbers.
Hey moron, crime is down because gun ownership is up, idiot.
Not because. WI and IL got concealed carry and violent crime is up.
And Minnesota just passed the 200,000 mark, which is 5% of their population…and their crime rate has gone down. Wisconsin and Chicago just passed concealed carry….and need 5% of the population to get a real effect.
Of course, the gangs in Chicago pick the politicians in their wards, who then vote down hiring police and tightening gun laws…so no, concealed carry isn't the problem in Chicago or Wisconsin…..
Oh 5% is the made up number now? That's funny.
The largest study arrived at 108k. All your numbers are old, crime is down over 30% since those were done. 764k is like 500k in today's numbers.
Hey moron, crime is down because gun ownership is up, idiot.
Not because. WI and IL got concealed carry and violent crime is up.
Shut up you cherry picking idiot. You cannot have it both ways ass hat.
If it really lowers crime then it shouldn't go up. I believe ownership does not effect crime personally. The claim that it lowers crime is based on cherry picking.
Guns stop crime personally. The victim produces the gun, the criminal runs away, is shot and injured, is shot and killed or is held for police….that stops crime against the victim.
And in states with concealed carry laws the crime rate has gone down…in particular, Minnesota…just passed the 200,000 mark, 5% of the state now has concealed carry permits.
The largest study arrived at 108k. All your numbers are old, crime is down over 30% since those were done. 764k is like 500k in today's numbers.
Hey moron, crime is down because gun ownership is up, idiot.
Not because. WI and IL got concealed carry and violent crime is up.
And Minnesota just passed the 200,000 mark, which is 5% of their population…and their crime rate has gone down. Wisconsin and Chicago just passed concealed carry….and need 5% of the population to get a real effect.
Of course, the gangs in Chicago pick the politicians in their wards, who then vote down hiring police and tightening gun laws…so no, concealed carry isn't the problem in Chicago or Wisconsin…..
Oh 5% is the made up number now? That's funny.
Nope, stats show you need at least 5% at which point the criminals start to encounter gun owners and change their behavior.
Y' know,... even the most virulent anti-gun organization out there claims that guns are used almost 68,000 times per year to stop a crime - 8x more often than to commit a murder.
Guns are Rarely Used to Kill Criminals or Stop Crimes New VPC Analysis Reveals (04/15/2013)
Gee, I've been pissed at my boss and I own a gun. I never shot him.Obama, Hillary Clinton Speak Out on Gun Violence After Virginia TV Shootings“We have got to do something about gun violence in America,” Clinton said to the media Wednesday at a press conference in Moneta, Va. “I will take it on. There are many people who face it and know it, but then turn away because it’s hard. It’s a very political, difficult issue in America, but I believe we are smart enough, we are compassionate enough, to figure out how to balance the legitimate Second Amendment rights with preventive measures and control measures so that whatever motivated this murderer, who eventually took his own life, we will not see more deaths — needless, senseless deaths.
Good to see Hillary isn't above using the blood of innocents to push her mindless agenda.
Tell us: what "preventive measures" would have stopped this crime?
Surely, you're smart enough and compassionate enough, to figure it out. Right?
Stop it? Probably not
We are a second amendment nation. We have 300 million guns ready for you to resolve any grievance or conflict you may have. We are also a nation raised in a gun culture. Cowboys shooting it out in the street. Gangsters spraying machine guns.
Pissed at your boss? Heres a gun
Had it with your wife? Heres a gun
Guy cut you off in traffic? Heres a gun
Want to kill a bunch of first graders? Heres an AR-15
We need to admit that we prefer being an armed society than a safe society. People getting killed is a price we willingly pay
I've had it with my wife and I own a gun. I've never shot her.
I've had guys cut me off in traffic and I own a gun. I've never shot one.
I have no desire to kill anyone. And I own an AR15.
It's not the gun, idiot. It's the idiot.
Very true
The challenge is how do we keep the guns away from the idiots?
We can start with keeping them away from criminals....background checks
We can keep them out of the hands of crazies....background checks
We can keep them out of the hands of wife beaters...background checks
But we cant have effective licensing or background checks because the gun nuts insist on.......except for gun shows, except for private sales
Y' know,... even the most virulent anti-gun organization out there claims that guns are used almost 68,000 times per year to stop a crime - 8x more often than to commit a murder.
Guns are Rarely Used to Kill Criminals or Stop Crimes New VPC Analysis Reveals (04/15/2013)
And crimes committed using guns is like 10x that.
Hey moron, crime is down because gun ownership is up, idiot.
Not because. WI and IL got concealed carry and violent crime is up.
And Minnesota just passed the 200,000 mark, which is 5% of their population…and their crime rate has gone down. Wisconsin and Chicago just passed concealed carry….and need 5% of the population to get a real effect.
Of course, the gangs in Chicago pick the politicians in their wards, who then vote down hiring police and tightening gun laws…so no, concealed carry isn't the problem in Chicago or Wisconsin…..
Oh 5% is the made up number now? That's funny.
Nope, stats show you need at least 5% at which point the criminals start to encounter gun owners and change their behavior.
Haha, debunked lott again?
Y' know,... even the most virulent anti-gun organization out there claims that guns are used almost 68,000 times per year to stop a crime - 8x more often than to commit a murder.
Guns are Rarely Used to Kill Criminals or Stop Crimes New VPC Analysis Reveals (04/15/2013)
And crimes committed using guns is like 10x that.
The violence policy center pulled that number out of their ass……I have posted what real studies show…not one study is under 764,000 and the average of the studies is 2 million times a year.
