Holland rethinks prostitution

[The Rabbi]

How long has the so-called War On Drugs been going on? And has it ended the use of drugs?

The same situation exists with prostitution. As long as someone is willing to pay for something it will be made available -- usually under circumstances which are far more harmful, dangerous, and degrading than if the prohibited object were legally available, taxed, and monitored for quality control.

If women are a commodity, like pork bellies, you would be right.

As long as someone is willing to pay more for beautiful women, blondes or redheads or very young children it will be made available. We can legalize the breeding and sale of women like they were particularly stunning race horses. We can brand them to combat rustling, tax the sale and monitor quality control for sex traffickers.

If women could be legally purchased from licensed breeders sex traffickers would have no need to kidnap them. The sex trafficking industry would disappear over night.

That needs to be on the next platform of the Libertarian Party.

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_4e_5Bz2BE]Portland's Teen Prostitutes - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MikeK]

are you going to claim that the system is tamper proof ?

Nothing is tamper proof.

The Netherlands' system of legalized prostitution is far better than what will develop if it is made illegal. There still will be prostitution but it will be controlled by criminals, the women will be mistreated, and the STD rate will soar.

Prostitution is the oldest profession and no system of laws can deter it.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Women are the mothers of men, because nothing else gives birth to them. It's not chance. It just "is." Not all women give girth to males, but only women can do so. It is mothers who influence men and women greatly.

Exactly it just "is" You don't deserve respect for being born with a uterus.

Oh, alright. I guess our views differ. When it comes to women I believe they should be respected, honored, and protected. A seperate thread on this sounds fun.

If they deserve respect that's one thing but being born with a vag doesn't mean you're special. You just landed on the other 50%

 

[Skull Pilot]

Women are the mothers of men. They are to be honored and respected. Prostitution demeans women. The demeaning of women is not good for society in general.

What demeans women is you telling them what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

 

[Wake]

If they deserve respect that's one thing but being born with a vag doesn't mean you're special. You just landed on the other 50%

I believe that women should be treated very well by men. It just seems that there is something innate and special about women, these humans that give birth and raise up men and women. It's special, I think. While it's true that eterminating all males or all females can destroy the human species, more damage can be done to homo sapiens if women are targetted and destroyed.

If my simple belief that women are more deserving of respect and protection than men, then let's consider something else. Being born black or white or whatever doesn't mean you're special. It's nothing to be proud about. Neither being supposedly born gay or straight. It just doesn't matter. Not everyone adheres to all of these notions. It's just a feeling by certain men that women ought to be elevated, cherished, loved, etc. Ultimately I suspect it is more the mother than the father that molds the young man, but I may be wrong, of course.

Women are the mothers of men. They are to be honored and respected. Prostitution demeans women. The demeaning of women is not good for society in general.

What demeans women is you telling them what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

With all due respect that just seems like a perverse notion. Because one doesn't feel that it's wholesome for another to basically sell her body for sex... that means you're demeaning women? What next, will you tell me that I'm demeaning people because I don't get the feeling that shooting up heroin is wholesome, either? Your set of morals run contrary to mine, in that you seem to think people can do whatever harmful, demeaning, and self-depecrating things to themselves and that it is they, they other people who care enough to voice concern... who are in the wrong. It almost seems like a hateful cycle where you truly hate these people who hurt themselves, so much in fact that you malign even those who care about said people's well-being.

 

[ErikViking]

Some other input:

It is legal to be a prostitute in Sweden. Sex workers, as long as they pay their taxes, has the same right to sick-/parental leave as anyone else.

Buying sex however is a crime with a maximum sentence of up to six months in jail.

What effect this law have had I don't really know. As with any other social experiment it isn't very easy to measure. The reasoning behind it has to do with the selling party ever so often is exploited and in a weak position while the bying party is in great control. Or something like that.

 

[Katzndogz]

What would happen, is exactly what happens every place prostitution is legal. There will be legal brothels and illegal street walkers, just like always. The unlicensed whores will sell sex cheaper, untaxed and offer condom free fucking. Pimps with a stable of unlicensed sex workers will offer up girls the men can beat the crap out of, for a fee, or underage girls for a fee. It will benefit the men who will have a choice as to whether they want government regulated sex or not.

In the whole of history, there has never been a time or a people that have been able to stop others from demeaning themselves. It's more than a right, it's an individual imperative.

 

[The Rabbi]

What would happen, is exactly what happens every place prostitution is legal. There will be legal brothels and illegal street walkers, just like always. The unlicensed whores will sell sex cheaper, untaxed and offer condom free fucking. Pimps with a stable of unlicensed sex workers will offer up girls the men can beat the crap out of, for a fee, or underage girls for a fee. It will benefit the men who will have a choice as to whether they want government regulated sex or not.

In the whole of history, there has never been a time or a people that have been able to stop others from demeaning themselves. It's more than a right, it's an individual imperative.

Why is it that places with legalized prostitution suffer from problems with organized crime, trafficking etc more than places without it?

 

[MikeK]

If they deserve respect that's one thing but being born with a vag doesn't mean you're special. You just landed on the other 50%

I believe that women should be treated very well by men. It just seems that there is something innate and special about women, these humans that give birth and raise up men and women. It's special, I think. While it's true that eterminating all males or all females can destroy the human species, more damage can be done to homo sapiens if women are targetted and destroyed.

If my simple belief that women are more deserving of respect and protection than men, then let's consider something else. Being born black or white or whatever doesn't mean you're special. It's nothing to be proud about. Neither being supposedly born gay or straight. It just doesn't matter. Not everyone adheres to all of these notions. It's just a feeling by certain men that women ought to be elevated, cherished, loved, etc. Ultimately I suspect it is more the mother than the father that molds the young man, but I may be wrong, of course.

Women are the mothers of men. They are to be honored and respected. Prostitution demeans women. The demeaning of women is not good for society in general.

What demeans women is you telling them what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

With all due respect that just seems like a perverse notion. Because one doesn't feel that it's wholesome for another to basically sell her body for sex... that means you're demeaning women? What next, will you tell me that I'm demeaning people because I don't get the feeling that shooting up heroin is wholesome, either? Your set of morals run contrary to mine, in that you seem to think people can do whatever harmful, demeaning, and self-depecrating things to themselves and that it is they, they other people who care enough to voice concern... who are in the wrong. It almost seems like a hateful cycle where you truly hate these people who hurt themselves, so much in fact that you malign even those who care about said people's well-being.

Skull Pilot didn't say one's contrary belief re: prostitution is demeaning to women. He said telling women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies is demeaning to them -- and I fully agree with that.

I resent the fact that marijuana is the subject of an irrational prohibition. I really don't care what some people think or say about it. Their opinions mean nothing to me. But telling me I may not grow or enjoy the effects of this benign plant is demeaning -- not only to me but to the very concept of freedom. The basis of this reasoning is the fact that my enjoyment of marijuana affects no one but me. My body. My life. My business.

 

[MikeK]

Some other input:

It is legal to be a prostitute in Sweden. Sex workers, as long as they pay their taxes, has the same right to sick-/parental leave as anyone else.

Buying sex however is a crime with a maximum sentence of up to six months in jail.

What effect this law have had I don't really know. As with any other social experiment it isn't very easy to measure. The reasoning behind it has to do with the selling party ever so often is exploited and in a weak position while the bying party is in great control. Or something like that.

That is an interesting concept: legal to sell but illegal to buy. It occurs to me that such a paradoxical concept can bring about the desired result of discreetly practiced prostitution.

What do you perceive as the effect of it? Are many men arrested for patronizing prostitutes? Is the practice of prostitution a social problem? Are criminal elements involved in it? Is it advertised?

 

[ErikViking]

Some other input:

It is legal to be a prostitute in Sweden. Sex workers, as long as they pay their taxes, has the same right to sick-/parental leave as anyone else.

Buying sex however is a crime with a maximum sentence of up to six months in jail.

What effect this law have had I don't really know. As with any other social experiment it isn't very easy to measure. The reasoning behind it has to do with the selling party ever so often is exploited and in a weak position while the bying party is in great control. Or something like that.

That is an interesting concept: legal to sell but illegal to buy. It occurs to me that such a paradoxical concept can bring about the desired result of discreetly practiced prostitution.

What do you perceive as the effect of it? Are many men arrested for patronizing prostitutes? Is the practice of prostitution a social problem? Are criminal elements involved in it? Is it advertised?

From my point of view then:
It seems prostitution from the streets is completly gone now. It took only a few early arrests to accomplish.

I guess, the law also timed with the internet blooming out, most of the prostitution has moved to web. Occasional arrests are made, but not many. Seems to me that the effort of upholding this law is concentrated to organized prostitution involving trafficking, not so much on individuals.

I think the main concern was always the well being of the women selling sex, and recognizing them as already in a very weak position. Thus putting the preassure on the buyer, who is considered being in control. I can't remember anyone discussing the act of prostitution itself as a problem.

Prostitution haven't been discussed as a major problem, but rather in the context of equality.

As I said, this is merely my personal reflection, I haven't studied this closer.

 

[MikeK]

Some other input:

It is legal to be a prostitute in Sweden. Sex workers, as long as they pay their taxes, has the same right to sick-/parental leave as anyone else.

Buying sex however is a crime with a maximum sentence of up to six months in jail.

What effect this law have had I don't really know. As with any other social experiment it isn't very easy to measure. The reasoning behind it has to do with the selling party ever so often is exploited and in a weak position while the bying party is in great control. Or something like that.

That is an interesting concept: legal to sell but illegal to buy. It occurs to me that such a paradoxical concept can bring about the desired result of discreetly practiced prostitution.

What do you perceive as the effect of it? Are many men arrested for patronizing prostitutes? Is the practice of prostitution a social problem? Are criminal elements involved in it? Is it advertised?

From my point of view then:
It seems prostitution from the streets is completly gone now. It took only a few early arrests to accomplish.

I guess, the law also timed with the internet blooming out, most of the prostitution has moved to web. Occasional arrests are made, but not many. Seems to me that the effort of upholding this law is concentrated to organized prostitution involving trafficking, not so much on individuals.

I think the main concern was always the well being of the women selling sex, and recognizing them as already in a very weak position. Thus putting the preassure on the buyer, who is considered being in control. I can't remember anyone discussing the act of prostitution itself as a problem.

Prostitution haven't been discussed as a major problem, but rather in the context of equality.

As I said, this is merely my personal reflection, I haven't studied this closer.

Thanks.

As I said, there is a peculiar cleverness about that legal arrangement I can't quite put a finger on. But the final effect will tell the tale.

One thing is certain; the prohibitions against prostitution and marijuana here in the U.S. are totally counterproductive. All they do is facilitate crime and corruption, which is as American as apple pie.

 

[The Rabbi]

That is an interesting concept: legal to sell but illegal to buy. It occurs to me that such a paradoxical concept can bring about the desired result of discreetly practiced prostitution.

What do you perceive as the effect of it? Are many men arrested for patronizing prostitutes? Is the practice of prostitution a social problem? Are criminal elements involved in it? Is it advertised?

From my point of view then:
It seems prostitution from the streets is completly gone now. It took only a few early arrests to accomplish.

I guess, the law also timed with the internet blooming out, most of the prostitution has moved to web. Occasional arrests are made, but not many. Seems to me that the effort of upholding this law is concentrated to organized prostitution involving trafficking, not so much on individuals.

I think the main concern was always the well being of the women selling sex, and recognizing them as already in a very weak position. Thus putting the preassure on the buyer, who is considered being in control. I can't remember anyone discussing the act of prostitution itself as a problem.

Prostitution haven't been discussed as a major problem, but rather in the context of equality.

As I said, this is merely my personal reflection, I haven't studied this closer.

Thanks.

As I said, there is a peculiar cleverness about that legal arrangement I can't quite put a finger on. But the final effect will tell the tale.

One thing is certain; the prohibitions against prostitution and marijuana here in the U.S. are totally counterproductive. All they do is facilitate crime and corruption, which is as American as apple pie.

And in Holland laws allowing facillitate crime and corruption too. So laws allowing it dont really work either.

 

[NoNukes]

Women are the mothers of men. They are to be honored and respected. Prostitution demeans women. The demeaning of women is not good for society in general.

Making prostitution illegal only drives it underground, it will always exist. Better to regulate it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Women are the mothers of men. They are to be honored and respected. Prostitution demeans women. The demeaning of women is not good for society in general.

Making prostitution illegal only drives it underground, it will always exist. Better to regulate it.

Ddint read the article, eh?

 

[NoNukes]

Women are the mothers of men. They are to be honored and respected. Prostitution demeans women. The demeaning of women is not good for society in general.

Only a fool believes that laws against prostitution will put an end to it. All such laws do is make it far more dangerous and demeaning for the women who engage in it.

They want to develop the red light district to make more money. It has nothing to do with morality.

 

[NoNukes]

Women are the mothers of men. They are to be honored and respected. Prostitution demeans women. The demeaning of women is not good for society in general.

Making prostitution illegal only drives it underground, it will always exist. Better to regulate it.

Ddint read the article, eh?

I have read several articles on the subject over the past few years.

They attempted to get rid of the coffee shops too, and that did not work.

 

[The Rabbi]

Making prostitution illegal only drives it underground, it will always exist. Better to regulate it.

Ddint read the article, eh?

I have read several articles on the subject over the past few years.

They attempted to get rid of the coffee shops too, and that did not work.

So no you didnt read this article. And yet you're confident enough to comment on it. Typical.

 

[NoNukes]

Ddint read the article, eh?

I have read several articles on the subject over the past few years.

They attempted to get rid of the coffee shops too, and that did not work.

So no you didnt read this article. And yet you're confident enough to comment on it. Typical.

I spend a good amount of time in Amsterdam and have first hand knowledge of what is going on.