Home invasion...thank goodness victims didn't have a gun...grandfather was beaten to death though...

[rightwinger]

Other than your romantic visions about shooting badguys, you have no way of knowing what the result would have been if more guns were added to the equation

In general, more guns= more shooting and more shooting= more deaths

Actually that isn't true....I would love to see an impartial link to that belief.....because as has been shown and as you have reported and brain has reported......with more Americans owning and actually carrying guns for protection....the crime rate has gone down...that means the gun violence rate is going down...therefore you are wrong again...more guns do not mean more shooting and more deaths....since the gun murder rate has been going down as has the accidental gun death rate...

Again, you are just wrong......

What has been shown is that gun ownership has had no impact on the crime rate and those areas with more acces to weapons have the highest homicide rates

Not true.....cities with strict gun control have high gun murder rates....Chicago and Washington D.C. to name a few....

Actually, Chicago is not in the top 20

New York and Boston have the toughest gun laws in the nation and low homicide rates
New Orleans has loose gun laws and an outrageous homicide rate

And chicago and Washington D.C also have the toughest gun laws and they have higher gun murder rates than New York and Boston......

Still lower than open carry New Orleans

 

[Vandalshandle]

Before I came to this thread a few years back, I didn't know that there are gun grabbers everywhere. I must have been really lucky. I have lived in Georgia, Texas, Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan, Colorado, Nevada, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arizona Pennsylvania, and California, and nobody ever tried to grab my guns. Where is all this gun grabbing taking place?

Must have missed the assault weapon ban then......

Yes, I must have. I hope that a guy I work with at the Sheriff's Auxiliary doesn't find out. He has a Thompson sub machine gun. His dad brought it home from WW2.....

 

[2aguy]

U.S. homicide number of murders by state 2013 Statistic

 

[M14 Shooter]

Before I came to this thread a few years back, I didn't know that there are gun grabbers everywhere. I must have been really lucky. I have lived in Georgia, Texas, Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan, Colorado, Nevada, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arizona Pennsylvania, and California, and nobody ever tried to grab my guns. Where is all this gun grabbing taking place?

Must have missed the assault weapon ban then......

Yes, I must have. I hope that a guy I work with at the Sheriff's Auxiliary doesn't find out. He has a Thompson sub machine gun. His dad brought it home from WW2.....

Ah... a NFA-registered weapon?
As such it was not affected by the AWB; the fact that he still has it in spite of the ban obviously means nothing.
So much for your response.

 

[2aguy]

Actually that isn't true....I would love to see an impartial link to that belief.....because as has been shown and as you have reported and brain has reported......with more Americans owning and actually carrying guns for protection....the crime rate has gone down...that means the gun violence rate is going down...therefore you are wrong again...more guns do not mean more shooting and more deaths....since the gun murder rate has been going down as has the accidental gun death rate...

Again, you are just wrong......

What has been shown is that gun ownership has had no impact on the crime rate and those areas with more acces to weapons have the highest homicide rates

Not true.....cities with strict gun control have high gun murder rates....Chicago and Washington D.C. to name a few....

Actually, Chicago is not in the top 20

New York and Boston have the toughest gun laws in the nation and low homicide rates
New Orleans has loose gun laws and an outrageous homicide rate

And chicago and Washington D.C also have the toughest gun laws and they have higher gun murder rates than New York and Boston......

Still lower than open carry New Orleans

California, New York and Pennsylvania....all have more murders than Louisiana....and California, and New York definitely have stricter gun laws than Louisiana......have to check Penn.

U.S. homicide number of murders by state 2013 Statistic

 

[Brain357]

None of that changes anything. Your numbers are still ridiculous. 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year, yet you claim 1.6 million are defended. Defended by a minority of the population. Only 11 million carry. The only argument you could make would be that owning a gun attracts crime so gun owners defend far more crimes than are reported. Oh and most defenders are involved in criminal activity so can't report the defenses. Is that the argument you want to make?

No brain...again...if you stop a crime with a gun you don't necessarily report it, second, a lot of other crime goes unreported...rapes and minor robberies in particular.....playing with the numbers to try to save face is cute....but a waste of time.....you don't have the real number for crime in the country so you don't know....and you still haven't posted a link as to where your number comes from anyway.....

I have posted it several times. Obviously you know your numbers are ridiculous cause you have no real defense. You just cling to the imaginary defense numbers regardless of how obviously wrong they are. There is no way a minority of the population is defending far more violent crimes than are reported. Sorry.

You have posted nonsense several times.....my defense is over 16 different, actual studies on the defensive use of guns to stop violent criminal attack, done over 40 years by both private and public experts in the field of research.......yours....you don't like the numbers so they aren't real.....

Yeah....who is really more delusional.........

There are about 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year. You claim 1.6 million are defended by a minority of the population. It's clear who is delusional.

Brain....your number, again, not linked, is not accurate or even close to accurate...the Clinton Justice Dept. alone did a study to debunk defensive gun use and they came up with 1.5 million times a year....the Justice Dept........they would know the crime rate...don't you think?

Here you go AGAIN.
United States Crime Rates1960 - 2013

About 1.1 million violent crimes. Clinton? That was a long time ago. Crime rates have come down dramatically.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I hope theses guys don't find out about the assault rifle ban, too. It could put them out of business:

Guns for Sale Handguns AR 15 Assault Rifles Used Guns More at Proguns.com

 

[2aguy]

No brain...again...if you stop a crime with a gun you don't necessarily report it, second, a lot of other crime goes unreported...rapes and minor robberies in particular.....playing with the numbers to try to save face is cute....but a waste of time.....you don't have the real number for crime in the country so you don't know....and you still haven't posted a link as to where your number comes from anyway.....

I have posted it several times. Obviously you know your numbers are ridiculous cause you have no real defense. You just cling to the imaginary defense numbers regardless of how obviously wrong they are. There is no way a minority of the population is defending far more violent crimes than are reported. Sorry.

You have posted nonsense several times.....my defense is over 16 different, actual studies on the defensive use of guns to stop violent criminal attack, done over 40 years by both private and public experts in the field of research.......yours....you don't like the numbers so they aren't real.....

Yeah....who is really more delusional.........

There are about 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year. You claim 1.6 million are defended by a minority of the population. It's clear who is delusional.

Brain....your number, again, not linked, is not accurate or even close to accurate...the Clinton Justice Dept. alone did a study to debunk defensive gun use and they came up with 1.5 million times a year....the Justice Dept........they would know the crime rate...don't you think?

Here you go AGAIN.
United States Crime Rates1960 - 2013

About 1.1 million violent crimes. Clinton? That was a long time ago. Crime rates have come down dramatically.

so....your stat means nothing...it doesn't catch all crimes committed or all crimes stopped by people using guns to stop them....a last desperate gasp to sustain you silly notions....

and yes....crime rates have gone down...as gun ownership has gone up and as more people carry guns...over 11.1 million people.....

 

[2aguy]

I hope theses guys don't find out about the assault rifle ban, too. It could put them out of business:

Guns for Sale Handguns AR 15 Assault Rifles Used Guns More at Proguns.com

You said they weren't coming for your guns.......I simply pointed out you must have missed the assault weapon ban......which of course did nothing to stop violent crime...considering the famous California bank robbery happened during the ban as did Columbine.......

 

[Brain357]

I have posted it several times. Obviously you know your numbers are ridiculous cause you have no real defense. You just cling to the imaginary defense numbers regardless of how obviously wrong they are. There is no way a minority of the population is defending far more violent crimes than are reported. Sorry.

You have posted nonsense several times.....my defense is over 16 different, actual studies on the defensive use of guns to stop violent criminal attack, done over 40 years by both private and public experts in the field of research.......yours....you don't like the numbers so they aren't real.....

Yeah....who is really more delusional.........

There are about 1.1 million violent crimes committed each year. You claim 1.6 million are defended by a minority of the population. It's clear who is delusional.

Brain....your number, again, not linked, is not accurate or even close to accurate...the Clinton Justice Dept. alone did a study to debunk defensive gun use and they came up with 1.5 million times a year....the Justice Dept........they would know the crime rate...don't you think?

Here you go AGAIN.
United States Crime Rates1960 - 2013

About 1.1 million violent crimes. Clinton? That was a long time ago. Crime rates have come down dramatically.

so....your stat means nothing...it doesn't catch all crimes committed or all crimes stopped by people using guns to stop them....a last desperate gasp to sustain you silly notions....

and yes....crime rates have gone down...as gun ownership has gone up and as more people carry guns...over 11.1 million people.....

It means your 1.6 is ridiculous. Gun owners are not defending more violent crimes than occur each year. Sorry.

 

[Moonglow]

"...
Deputies say they don't know if anything was taken from the home, and it's not clear yet who called 9-1-1.

Investigators have been on scene about twelve hours."'

Sounds to me like the attackers knew their victims since there was no robbery.

I don't know if you understand how long it takes for someone to break into a home and attack someone. Try less than 30 seconds because a door can be broken down in about 5-10 seconds. So we are all supposed to sleep with one eye open and a gun in our hand? Do you know how many accidental killings happen that way?

Sorry, this is a sorry-assed argument for owning a gun.

To retarded libs any argument for owning guns is sorry.

Do they to be certified as retarded first?

 

[Brain357]

I hope theses guys don't find out about the assault rifle ban, too. It could put them out of business:

Guns for Sale Handguns AR 15 Assault Rifles Used Guns More at Proguns.com

You said they weren't coming for your guns.......I simply pointed out you must have missed the assault weapon ban......which of course did nothing to stop violent crime...considering the famous California bank robbery happened during the ban as did Columbine.......

How many guns were confiscated during that ban?

 

[Correll]

Do you still need it?

It sounds like you have been doing some reading since yesterday and have learned some of them already.

Now that you understand some of the issues on remembering dates, do you want to apologize for calling the other poster a liar?

I didn't think you were going to do anything. Or did your research not result in the answer you wanted? Sorry I caught a gun nut lying.

Odd, nothing you said directly answers anything I asked.

You do know more about how memory works (or fails to work) than you did yesterday. Thus you should be able to realize that your focus on the issue of dates yesterday (or was it the day before?) did not show what you thought it did, ie that that other poster was lying.

Considering how harsh and accusatory you were, and incorrectly at that, I asked if you would like to apologize.

If you have done some reading since yesterday, then you have learned (you could thank me for challenging you) and thus do not need me to link you to something you now know.

Holding on to your "liar" accusation, when you now know that a date mix up is totally normal, that's pretty dishonest of you...

I know you were going to do some research and report back. Seems like you aren't doing that so I am quickly thinking less of you. So where is the results of your research?

I have repeatedly commented on the change in your position on the issue includes knowledge you did not have before.

You have not responded to this.

I have repeatedly asked you if you had done the reading yourself.

You have ignored my questions.

I have asked you if you needed a link to information we discussed yesterday and which you now possess.

You have not answered that question.

If you were to apologize to the man you were calling a liar yesterday, it would raise my opinion of you.

You have not provided the info you said you would. And clearly have no intention to probably because it doesn't back you. So do what you said you would. Otherwise you are shown to be of low character.

Apologize to the guy who insulted everyone by lying? No thanks. Like the other guy it's hard to remember dates for things that never happened.

Why do you refuse to answer my questions or address anything I have said? THey are not gotcha questions or rhetorical B.S. questions like "have you stopped beating your wife".


Did you already independently read the information that I was discussing yesterday?

 

[Brain357]

I didn't think you were going to do anything. Or did your research not result in the answer you wanted? Sorry I caught a gun nut lying.

Odd, nothing you said directly answers anything I asked.

You do know more about how memory works (or fails to work) than you did yesterday. Thus you should be able to realize that your focus on the issue of dates yesterday (or was it the day before?) did not show what you thought it did, ie that that other poster was lying.

Considering how harsh and accusatory you were, and incorrectly at that, I asked if you would like to apologize.

If you have done some reading since yesterday, then you have learned (you could thank me for challenging you) and thus do not need me to link you to something you now know.

Holding on to your "liar" accusation, when you now know that a date mix up is totally normal, that's pretty dishonest of you...

I know you were going to do some research and report back. Seems like you aren't doing that so I am quickly thinking less of you. So where is the results of your research?

I have repeatedly commented on the change in your position on the issue includes knowledge you did not have before.

You have not responded to this.

I have repeatedly asked you if you had done the reading yourself.

You have ignored my questions.

I have asked you if you needed a link to information we discussed yesterday and which you now possess.

You have not answered that question.

If you were to apologize to the man you were calling a liar yesterday, it would raise my opinion of you.

You have not provided the info you said you would. And clearly have no intention to probably because it doesn't back you. So do what you said you would. Otherwise you are shown to be of low character.

Apologize to the guy who insulted everyone by lying? No thanks. Like the other guy it's hard to remember dates for things that never happened.

Why do you refuse to answer my questions or address anything I have said? THey are not gotcha questions or rhetorical B.S. questions like "have you stopped beating your wife".


Did you already independently read the information that I was discussing yesterday?

No you said you would do the research and report back. I'm still waiting.

 

[Correll]

Nah...I want to keep em guessing. How else am I to get a good shot at em?
Besides they couldnt get past the gate,the dog,the alarm,the surveillance system or into the safe. All they'd get is killed.

Most gun owners aren't that smart

It is not hard to figure out when someone is home and when they have left. Do you have a phone?
Your guns are more valuable to a criminal than anything I have in my house. Easier to carry, easier to sell
They want to rob my house? I'll just walk out and let them. I have insurance and don't own anything worth taking a human life

Aren't smart enough to do what? That was a nonsensical generalization. Smart enough to get a good shot?


It is not hard to figure out when someone is home and when they have left? How? MOst people have multiple cars. If there is one car in the driveway does that mean that everyone has left the house? Or is there someone asleep with the lights off?

You assume that you will have the opportunity to leave. Maybe they will assume that you have hidden your valuables. Maybe they just want to hurt you for the sadistic fun of it. Maybe they will be between you and the exit.

A good thief will case the house and know when you go to work and when you get back. He will know your car and your wifes car. A phone call or an innocent knock on your door looking for a lost kitten can verify if you are home

There are over 300 million guns in this country. There are not 300 million gun safes. Most guns and ammunition are there for the taking

You owning a gun does very little in preventing a thief from robbing your house

Unless he doesn't realize you are at home.....and you happen to be a woman and he decides to engage in opportunity rape...but as long as it is just rape...right, then it's okay?

And if the woman in the house is not well trained and does not get off a kill shot, she ends up dead

As has been repeatedly discussed, there is no need of "getting off a kill shot".

Brandishing a firearm will deter many unarmed intruders, and many armed intruders.

Most self defense takes place at 10 feet or less. Not a lot of training required to shot some one at ten feet.

 

[Correll]

Odd, nothing you said directly answers anything I asked.

You do know more about how memory works (or fails to work) than you did yesterday. Thus you should be able to realize that your focus on the issue of dates yesterday (or was it the day before?) did not show what you thought it did, ie that that other poster was lying.

Considering how harsh and accusatory you were, and incorrectly at that, I asked if you would like to apologize.

If you have done some reading since yesterday, then you have learned (you could thank me for challenging you) and thus do not need me to link you to something you now know.

Holding on to your "liar" accusation, when you now know that a date mix up is totally normal, that's pretty dishonest of you...

I know you were going to do some research and report back. Seems like you aren't doing that so I am quickly thinking less of you. So where is the results of your research?

I have repeatedly commented on the change in your position on the issue includes knowledge you did not have before.

You have not responded to this.

I have repeatedly asked you if you had done the reading yourself.

You have ignored my questions.

I have asked you if you needed a link to information we discussed yesterday and which you now possess.

You have not answered that question.

If you were to apologize to the man you were calling a liar yesterday, it would raise my opinion of you.

You have not provided the info you said you would. And clearly have no intention to probably because it doesn't back you. So do what you said you would. Otherwise you are shown to be of low character.

Apologize to the guy who insulted everyone by lying? No thanks. Like the other guy it's hard to remember dates for things that never happened.

Why do you refuse to answer my questions or address anything I have said? THey are not gotcha questions or rhetorical B.S. questions like "have you stopped beating your wife".


Did you already independently read the information that I was discussing yesterday?

No you said you would do the research and report back. I'm still waiting.

You now demonstrate a grasp of such concepts as the telescoping effect.

Yesterday, you claimed such behavior was proof of lying, now you know better.

This was the point I trying to make yesterday. When you were calling the other poster a liar.

I'm not sure why you think that I should invest the time to link you to information you now possess.

However that occurred.

I'm glad you learned something.

 

[Brain357]

I know you were going to do some research and report back. Seems like you aren't doing that so I am quickly thinking less of you. So where is the results of your research?

I have repeatedly commented on the change in your position on the issue includes knowledge you did not have before.

You have not responded to this.

I have repeatedly asked you if you had done the reading yourself.

You have ignored my questions.

I have asked you if you needed a link to information we discussed yesterday and which you now possess.

You have not answered that question.

If you were to apologize to the man you were calling a liar yesterday, it would raise my opinion of you.

You have not provided the info you said you would. And clearly have no intention to probably because it doesn't back you. So do what you said you would. Otherwise you are shown to be of low character.

Apologize to the guy who insulted everyone by lying? No thanks. Like the other guy it's hard to remember dates for things that never happened.

Why do you refuse to answer my questions or address anything I have said? THey are not gotcha questions or rhetorical B.S. questions like "have you stopped beating your wife".


Did you already independently read the information that I was discussing yesterday?

No you said you would do the research and report back. I'm still waiting.

You now demonstrate a grasp of such concepts as the telescoping effect.

Yesterday, you claimed such behavior was proof of lying, now you know better.

This was the point I trying to make yesterday. When you were calling the other poster a liar.

I'm not sure why you think that I should invest the time to link you to information you now possess.

However that occurred.

I'm glad you learned something.

You seem to not be making any sense. And clearly you won't find the info because you are wrong. Sorry for proving your gun nut friend was lying.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I hope theses guys don't find out about the assault rifle ban, too. It could put them out of business:

Guns for Sale Handguns AR 15 Assault Rifles Used Guns More at Proguns.com

You said they weren't coming for your guns.......I simply pointed out you must have missed the assault weapon ban......which of course did nothing to stop violent crime...considering the famous California bank robbery happened during the ban as did Columbine.......

How many guns were confiscated during that ban?

It must have been in the middle of the night, since nobody has ever complained about having his gun grabbed,...except Zimmerman. Anyway, if they take your assault rifle, you can buy another one on the link I provide in my post above.


"
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[Vandalshandle]

You need never worry about your home being invaded, because Proguns will sell you a 50 Cal. fully automatic machine gun. Even our helicopters in Vietnam backed off from those babies!

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If you’ve been searching for a military machine gun for sale, an Uzi machine gun, or even a 50 cal machine gun, Proguns.com has the class 3 weapons for sale and the machine guns for sale that you’ve always wanted but could never get. From Browning machine guns to Vulcan machine guns to Thompson machine guns, our selection of class 3 weapons for sale is unparalleled and growing every day.

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Class 3 weapons for sale from Proguns.com: Everything you’ve ever wanted, all at prices you won’t believe."

 

[rightwinger]

What has been shown is that gun ownership has had no impact on the crime rate and those areas with more acces to weapons have the highest homicide rates

Not true.....cities with strict gun control have high gun murder rates....Chicago and Washington D.C. to name a few....

Actually, Chicago is not in the top 20

New York and Boston have the toughest gun laws in the nation and low homicide rates
New Orleans has loose gun laws and an outrageous homicide rate

And chicago and Washington D.C also have the toughest gun laws and they have higher gun murder rates than New York and Boston......

Still lower than open carry New Orleans

California, New York and Pennsylvania....all have more murders than Louisiana....and California, and New York definitely have stricter gun laws than Louisiana......have to check Penn.

U.S. homicide number of murders by state 2013 Statistic

Wow........Highly populated states have more murders than sparsely populated states

You figured that out did you?