Honest and open debate on gun control

[westwall]

Wry Catcher lamented the fact that there was no such debate (see sig) so I thought I would present everyone the same opportunity that I presented him. He ran away from this opportunity; hopefully you will show a little more honesty.

If you have a suggestion for new/additional gun control that (1) prevents criminals from getting guns and (2) does not infringe on the rights of the law-abiding. I'm all ears.
Please proceed.
Be sure to show how your suggestion meets he two points, above.

ok...
How about we don't let violent criminals out of jail unless they have been cleared to rejoin society as a first class citizen that is allowed to have guns. Oh and criminals should be on chain gangs earning their keep, not on vacation spending taxpayer dollars. Make Jails profitable again.

I',m all for making it harder for violent criminals from getting out of jail, but that doesn't prevent other criminals from getting guns.

The perpetrators of mass shootings seem to be, in the words of the gun lovers, "law abiding citizens" right up to the point they pull the trigger in a school or theater or church.

Keeping criminals in jail is a good point of departure. But that costs more money than most Conservatives want to spend. We already lead the world in incarceration. And mass shooting. Given that fact, If the notion of banning weapons of warcraft, not sport, is an unacceptable idea,

No, the evidence says the opposite. They are not "normal" people. They are almost all on some type of psychotropic drug or have been in some form of mental therapy, they have had run ins with the law in many cases, Klebold for instance had a felony arrest hanging over his head, in other words there should have been a way to keep these people under control but the government failed to do so.

As far as the huge number of locked up criminals, I agree with you that the majority should be released. The only people who should be in prison are violent offenders. Those who are non violent should be in work camps working off their sentences.

And yet, background checks are seen as an infringement.

Only by some. Most want them, we just don't want gun registration to be part of it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Wry Catcher lamented the fact that there was no such debate (see sig) so I thought I would present everyone the same opportunity that I presented him. He ran away from this opportunity; hopefully you will show a little more honesty.

If you have a suggestion for new/additional gun control that (1) prevents criminals from getting guns and (2) does not infringe on the rights of the law-abiding. I'm all ears.
Please proceed.
Be sure to show how your suggestion meets he two points, above.

ok...
How about we don't let violent criminals out of jail unless they have been cleared to rejoin society as a first class citizen that is allowed to have guns. Oh and criminals should be on chain gangs earning their keep, not on vacation spending taxpayer dollars. Make Jails profitable again.

I',m all for making it harder for violent criminals from getting out of jail, but that doesn't prevent other criminals from getting guns.

What other criminals?

Non-violent felons - it is illegal for them to have guns, too.

 

[Nosmo King]

ok...
How about we don't let violent criminals out of jail unless they have been cleared to rejoin society as a first class citizen that is allowed to have guns. Oh and criminals should be on chain gangs earning their keep, not on vacation spending taxpayer dollars. Make Jails profitable again.

I',m all for making it harder for violent criminals from getting out of jail, but that doesn't prevent other criminals from getting guns.

The perpetrators of mass shootings seem to be, in the words of the gun lovers, "law abiding citizens" right up to the point they pull the trigger in a school or theater or church.

Keeping criminals in jail is a good point of departure. But that costs more money than most Conservatives want to spend. We already lead the world in incarceration. And mass shooting. Given that fact, If the notion of banning weapons of warcraft, not sport, is an unacceptable idea,

We lead the world in incarceration because of the war on drugs. End that.

As for mass shootings... those are caused by liberal laws that forbid us from defending ourselves. End those.

You ignored my point about putting criminals to work in jails. Jails should be self sustaining. Tax payers should not be footing the bill for criminals, the criminals should pay their own damn bills. If they can't work hard enough to fund their bills... let em starve to death or get money from a chairity or family members.

The state sentences criminals, and incarcerates them. They are literally in the custody of the state.

Ignoring the, is not a value any American state should embrace. And the only state that comes to mind that intentionally staved those who they hold in prison is Nazi Germany. Do you want to hold them as your paradigm of statecraft?

You're forgetting the Soviet gulags, and Mao's wonderful resorts. Basically it is the progressive countries of the world that have murdered the most people. Usually by starvation.

The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not examples of "Progressive" countries. They are Authoritarian regimes.

Swing and a miss. Conservatives are such poor students.

 

[Nosmo King]

ok...
How about we don't let violent criminals out of jail unless they have been cleared to rejoin society as a first class citizen that is allowed to have guns. Oh and criminals should be on chain gangs earning their keep, not on vacation spending taxpayer dollars. Make Jails profitable again.

I',m all for making it harder for violent criminals from getting out of jail, but that doesn't prevent other criminals from getting guns.

The perpetrators of mass shootings seem to be, in the words of the gun lovers, "law abiding citizens" right up to the point they pull the trigger in a school or theater or church.

Keeping criminals in jail is a good point of departure. But that costs more money than most Conservatives want to spend. We already lead the world in incarceration. And mass shooting. Given that fact, If the notion of banning weapons of warcraft, not sport, is an unacceptable idea,

No, the evidence says the opposite. They are not "normal" people. They are almost all on some type of psychotropic drug or have been in some form of mental therapy, they have had run ins with the law in many cases, Klebold for instance had a felony arrest hanging over his head, in other words there should have been a way to keep these people under control but the government failed to do so.

As far as the huge number of locked up criminals, I agree with you that the majority should be released. The only people who should be in prison are violent offenders. Those who are non violent should be in work camps working off their sentences.

And yet, background checks are seen as an infringement.

Only by some. Most want them, we just don't want gun registration to be part of it.

Because registration leads to confiscation? Ridiculous! The ballistic fingerprint of each gun should be registered along with each serial number. We deserve to know whose guns are committing crimes.

You register your car. You register your boat. And yet no one has come knocking at your door to take them away unless you fail to make the payments.

 

[Ame®icano]

Okay, Rambo. Let's imagine your rebellion. The 4th armored division is about to sack your house. Is your AK 47 doing you any good? And is that good more beneficial than keeping that AK 47 out of the hands of the next manic who wanders into an elementary school?

Check the Posse Comitatus Act.

 

[westwall]

I',m all for making it harder for violent criminals from getting out of jail, but that doesn't prevent other criminals from getting guns.

The perpetrators of mass shootings seem to be, in the words of the gun lovers, "law abiding citizens" right up to the point they pull the trigger in a school or theater or church.

Keeping criminals in jail is a good point of departure. But that costs more money than most Conservatives want to spend. We already lead the world in incarceration. And mass shooting. Given that fact, If the notion of banning weapons of warcraft, not sport, is an unacceptable idea,

We lead the world in incarceration because of the war on drugs. End that.

As for mass shootings... those are caused by liberal laws that forbid us from defending ourselves. End those.

You ignored my point about putting criminals to work in jails. Jails should be self sustaining. Tax payers should not be footing the bill for criminals, the criminals should pay their own damn bills. If they can't work hard enough to fund their bills... let em starve to death or get money from a chairity or family members.

The state sentences criminals, and incarcerates them. They are literally in the custody of the state.

Ignoring the, is not a value any American state should embrace. And the only state that comes to mind that intentionally staved those who they hold in prison is Nazi Germany. Do you want to hold them as your paradigm of statecraft?

You're forgetting the Soviet gulags, and Mao's wonderful resorts. Basically it is the progressive countries of the world that have murdered the most people. Usually by starvation.

The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not examples of "Progressive" countries. They are Authoritarian regimes.

Swing and a miss. Conservatives are such poor students.

Oh, they most certainly are. The leaders of the progressive movement of the 1920's and 30's were famous for extolling the virtues of the fascist regimes. This is all well known history. What is also well known is that before the oppression, and the terror could begin, the people had to be disarmed.

Funny how that works.

Progressives are even poorer students.

• H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”
• The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
• The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”
• Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”
• McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”
• After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”
• Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”
• NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”
• FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
• New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
• Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

 

[westwall]

I',m all for making it harder for violent criminals from getting out of jail, but that doesn't prevent other criminals from getting guns.

The perpetrators of mass shootings seem to be, in the words of the gun lovers, "law abiding citizens" right up to the point they pull the trigger in a school or theater or church.

Keeping criminals in jail is a good point of departure. But that costs more money than most Conservatives want to spend. We already lead the world in incarceration. And mass shooting. Given that fact, If the notion of banning weapons of warcraft, not sport, is an unacceptable idea,

No, the evidence says the opposite. They are not "normal" people. They are almost all on some type of psychotropic drug or have been in some form of mental therapy, they have had run ins with the law in many cases, Klebold for instance had a felony arrest hanging over his head, in other words there should have been a way to keep these people under control but the government failed to do so.

As far as the huge number of locked up criminals, I agree with you that the majority should be released. The only people who should be in prison are violent offenders. Those who are non violent should be in work camps working off their sentences.

And yet, background checks are seen as an infringement.

Only by some. Most want them, we just don't want gun registration to be part of it.

Because registration leads to confiscation? Ridiculous! The ballistic fingerprint of each gun should be registered along with each serial number. We deserve to know whose guns are committing crimes.

You register your car. You register your boat. And yet no one has come knocking at your door to take them away unless you fail to make the payments.

Yes, it does. Tell me a single registration scheme that hasn't ended in outright confiscation. Just one.

 

[Nosmo King]

The perpetrators of mass shootings seem to be, in the words of the gun lovers, "law abiding citizens" right up to the point they pull the trigger in a school or theater or church.

Keeping criminals in jail is a good point of departure. But that costs more money than most Conservatives want to spend. We already lead the world in incarceration. And mass shooting. Given that fact, If the notion of banning weapons of warcraft, not sport, is an unacceptable idea,

We lead the world in incarceration because of the war on drugs. End that.

As for mass shootings... those are caused by liberal laws that forbid us from defending ourselves. End those.

You ignored my point about putting criminals to work in jails. Jails should be self sustaining. Tax payers should not be footing the bill for criminals, the criminals should pay their own damn bills. If they can't work hard enough to fund their bills... let em starve to death or get money from a chairity or family members.

The state sentences criminals, and incarcerates them. They are literally in the custody of the state.

Ignoring the, is not a value any American state should embrace. And the only state that comes to mind that intentionally staved those who they hold in prison is Nazi Germany. Do you want to hold them as your paradigm of statecraft?

You're forgetting the Soviet gulags, and Mao's wonderful resorts. Basically it is the progressive countries of the world that have murdered the most people. Usually by starvation.

The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not examples of "Progressive" countries. They are Authoritarian regimes.

Swing and a miss. Conservatives are such poor students.

Oh, they most certainly are. The leaders of the progressive movement of the 1920's and 30's were famous for extolling the virtues of the fascist regimes. This is all well known history. What is also well known is that before the oppression, and the terror could begin, the people had to be disarmed.

Funny how that works.

Progressives are even poorer students.

• H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”
• The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
• The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”
• Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”
• McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”
• After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”
• Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”
• NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”
• FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
• New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
• Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

All said during the greatest economic calamity since the Dark Ages. A calamity that resulted from unchecked, unfettered Capitalism run amok.

 

[westwall]

We lead the world in incarceration because of the war on drugs. End that.

As for mass shootings... those are caused by liberal laws that forbid us from defending ourselves. End those.

You ignored my point about putting criminals to work in jails. Jails should be self sustaining. Tax payers should not be footing the bill for criminals, the criminals should pay their own damn bills. If they can't work hard enough to fund their bills... let em starve to death or get money from a chairity or family members.

The state sentences criminals, and incarcerates them. They are literally in the custody of the state.

Ignoring the, is not a value any American state should embrace. And the only state that comes to mind that intentionally staved those who they hold in prison is Nazi Germany. Do you want to hold them as your paradigm of statecraft?

You're forgetting the Soviet gulags, and Mao's wonderful resorts. Basically it is the progressive countries of the world that have murdered the most people. Usually by starvation.

The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not examples of "Progressive" countries. They are Authoritarian regimes.

Swing and a miss. Conservatives are such poor students.

Oh, they most certainly are. The leaders of the progressive movement of the 1920's and 30's were famous for extolling the virtues of the fascist regimes. This is all well known history. What is also well known is that before the oppression, and the terror could begin, the people had to be disarmed.

Funny how that works.

Progressives are even poorer students.

• H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”
• The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
• The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”
• Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”
• McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”
• After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”
• Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”
• NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”
• FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
• New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
• Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

All said during the greatest economic calamity since the Dark Ages. A calamity that resulted from unchecked, unfettered Capitalism run amok.

The Soviet Union was unfettered capitalism run amuck? Even if that were true, how do you justify the murder of 60 million PEASANTS? They weren't capitalists, they WERE
the ones being oppressed. Luuuucy, you've got some esplainin to doooo.....

 

[PratchettFan]

Nine pages in and not a single suggestion that would have any impact at all. Shocker.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Wry Catcher lamented the fact that there was no such debate (see sig) so I thought I would present everyone the same opportunity that I presented him. He ran away from this opportunity; hopefully you will show a little more honesty.

If you have a suggestion for new/additional gun control that (1) prevents criminals from getting guns and (2) does not infringe on the rights of the law-abiding. I'm all ears.
Please proceed.
Be sure to show how your suggestion meets he two points, above.

Gun control wont fix gun violence any more than car control would fix drunk driving. The problem isn't the gun (or the car,) but the operator of the gun and the car.

 

[RKMBrown]

Wry Catcher lamented the fact that there was no such debate (see sig) so I thought I would present everyone the same opportunity that I presented him. He ran away from this opportunity; hopefully you will show a little more honesty.

If you have a suggestion for new/additional gun control that (1) prevents criminals from getting guns and (2) does not infringe on the rights of the law-abiding. I'm all ears.
Please proceed.
Be sure to show how your suggestion meets he two points, above.

ok...
How about we don't let violent criminals out of jail unless they have been cleared to rejoin society as a first class citizen that is allowed to have guns. Oh and criminals should be on chain gangs earning their keep, not on vacation spending taxpayer dollars. Make Jails profitable again.

I',m all for making it harder for violent criminals from getting out of jail, but that doesn't prevent other criminals from getting guns.

The perpetrators of mass shootings seem to be, in the words of the gun lovers, "law abiding citizens" right up to the point they pull the trigger in a school or theater or church.

Keeping criminals in jail is a good point of departure. But that costs more money than most Conservatives want to spend. We already lead the world in incarceration. And mass shooting. Given that fact, If the notion of banning weapons of warcraft, not sport, is an unacceptable idea,

We lead the world in incarceration because of the war on drugs. End that.

As for mass shootings... those are caused by liberal laws that forbid us from defending ourselves. End those.

You ignored my point about putting criminals to work in jails. Jails should be self sustaining. Tax payers should not be footing the bill for criminals, the criminals should pay their own damn bills. If they can't work hard enough to fund their bills... let em starve to death or get money from a chairity or family members.

The state sentences criminals, and incarcerates them. They are literally in the custody of the state.

Ignoring the, is not a value any American state should embrace. And the only state that comes to mind that intentionally staved those who they hold in prison is Nazi Germany. Do you want to hold them as your paradigm of statecraft?

So you are saying criminals are so damn worthless they can't earn enough to pay their own way in life? wow you don't think much of criminals do you...

 

[RKMBrown]

Wry Catcher lamented the fact that there was no such debate (see sig) so I thought I would present everyone the same opportunity that I presented him. He ran away from this opportunity; hopefully you will show a little more honesty.

If you have a suggestion for new/additional gun control that (1) prevents criminals from getting guns and (2) does not infringe on the rights of the law-abiding. I'm all ears.
Please proceed.
Be sure to show how your suggestion meets he two points, above.

ok...
How about we don't let violent criminals out of jail unless they have been cleared to rejoin society as a first class citizen that is allowed to have guns. Oh and criminals should be on chain gangs earning their keep, not on vacation spending taxpayer dollars. Make Jails profitable again.

I',m all for making it harder for violent criminals from getting out of jail, but that doesn't prevent other criminals from getting guns.

What other criminals?

Non-violent felons - it is illegal for them to have guns, too.

Yeah well that makes no sense. They can drive a car but not own a gun? lol nutz

 

[PratchettFan]

The reason no workable ideas are being brought up is because this is not a gun problem, it is a perception problem. Because our access to information is now widespread and almost instantaneous, we think things are getting worse. This really is not the case. We just see them more.

In 1950, before all of the attempts to control gun ownership and the advent "assault weapons" the gun related homicide rate in the US was 5.1 per 100,000. In 2010, the rate was 5.3. Our population doubled, we went through tremendous changes in our population, and there has been essentially no impact upon gun related homicides. All of the laws we implemented changed nothing. All of the changes in gun design and magazine capacity changed nothing. We are essentially where we were 65 years ago.

While the mass shootings we find out about almost as they are happening are tragic, they are not caused by guns. Increasing gun laws, or even implementing gun laws, won't impact them. Using gun laws to address this issue is like giving a starving child a new party dress. It might be an easy solution, but it doesn't solve the problem.

 

[Nosmo King]

The state sentences criminals, and incarcerates them. They are literally in the custody of the state.

Ignoring the, is not a value any American state should embrace. And the only state that comes to mind that intentionally staved those who they hold in prison is Nazi Germany. Do you want to hold them as your paradigm of statecraft?

You're forgetting the Soviet gulags, and Mao's wonderful resorts. Basically it is the progressive countries of the world that have murdered the most people. Usually by starvation.

The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not examples of "Progressive" countries. They are Authoritarian regimes.

Swing and a miss. Conservatives are such poor students.

Oh, they most certainly are. The leaders of the progressive movement of the 1920's and 30's were famous for extolling the virtues of the fascist regimes. This is all well known history. What is also well known is that before the oppression, and the terror could begin, the people had to be disarmed.

Funny how that works.

Progressives are even poorer students.

• H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”
• The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
• The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”
• Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”
• McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”
• After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”
• Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”
• NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”
• FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
• New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
• Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

All said during the greatest economic calamity since the Dark Ages. A calamity that resulted from unchecked, unfettered Capitalism run amok.

The Soviet Union was unfettered capitalism run amuck? Even if that were true, how do you justify the murder of 60 million PEASANTS? They weren't capitalists, they WERE
the ones being oppressed. Luuuucy, you've got some esplainin to doooo.....

All those quotes in praise of Fascist were made in the depths of the Great Depression. Those who praised Facism were doing so based upon the turnaround of the Fascist economies.

That Great Depression occurred due to uncheck, unfettered Capitalism.

 

[Nosmo King]

ok...
How about we don't let violent criminals out of jail unless they have been cleared to rejoin society as a first class citizen that is allowed to have guns. Oh and criminals should be on chain gangs earning their keep, not on vacation spending taxpayer dollars. Make Jails profitable again.

I',m all for making it harder for violent criminals from getting out of jail, but that doesn't prevent other criminals from getting guns.

The perpetrators of mass shootings seem to be, in the words of the gun lovers, "law abiding citizens" right up to the point they pull the trigger in a school or theater or church.

Keeping criminals in jail is a good point of departure. But that costs more money than most Conservatives want to spend. We already lead the world in incarceration. And mass shooting. Given that fact, If the notion of banning weapons of warcraft, not sport, is an unacceptable idea,

We lead the world in incarceration because of the war on drugs. End that.

As for mass shootings... those are caused by liberal laws that forbid us from defending ourselves. End those.

You ignored my point about putting criminals to work in jails. Jails should be self sustaining. Tax payers should not be footing the bill for criminals, the criminals should pay their own damn bills. If they can't work hard enough to fund their bills... let em starve to death or get money from a chairity or family members.

The state sentences criminals, and incarcerates them. They are literally in the custody of the state.

Ignoring the, is not a value any American state should embrace. And the only state that comes to mind that intentionally staved those who they hold in prison is Nazi Germany. Do you want to hold them as your paradigm of statecraft?

So you are saying criminals are so damn worthless they can't earn enough to pay their own way in life? wow you don't think much of criminals do you...

Should criminal labor compete in the Free Market with private businesses? Who's the Conservative here?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nine pages in and not a single suggestion that would have any impact at all. Shocker.

I know -I- am surprised.

 

[2aguy]

You're forgetting the Soviet gulags, and Mao's wonderful resorts. Basically it is the progressive countries of the world that have murdered the most people. Usually by starvation.

The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not examples of "Progressive" countries. They are Authoritarian regimes.

Swing and a miss. Conservatives are such poor students.

Oh, they most certainly are. The leaders of the progressive movement of the 1920's and 30's were famous for extolling the virtues of the fascist regimes. This is all well known history. What is also well known is that before the oppression, and the terror could begin, the people had to be disarmed.

Funny how that works.

Progressives are even poorer students.

• H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”
• The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
• The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”
• Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”
• McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”
• After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”
• Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”
• NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”
• FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
• New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
• Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

All said during the greatest economic calamity since the Dark Ages. A calamity that resulted from unchecked, unfettered Capitalism run amok.

The Soviet Union was unfettered capitalism run amuck? Even if that were true, how do you justify the murder of 60 million PEASANTS? They weren't capitalists, they WERE
the ones being oppressed. Luuuucy, you've got some esplainin to doooo.....

All those quotes in praise of Fascist were made in the depths of the Great Depression. Those who praised Facism were doing so based upon the turnaround of the Fascist economies.

That Great Depression occurred due to uncheck, unfettered Capitalism.

The Great Depression happened because they tried to get out of it by raising taxes and tariffs which wrecked the recovery...then socialist FDR started trying to control all aspects of the economy and slowed down the recovery even more......

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If we worked on violence by working on gun violence only, it'd be like working on cancer by only addressing the pain. Meanwhile, everybody still dies from the cancer but pain-free.

Violence is a symptom of a larger problem. But if we don't know what the bigger problem is, working on fixing the symptom isn't going to do anything.

 

[Nosmo King]

The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not examples of "Progressive" countries. They are Authoritarian regimes.

Swing and a miss. Conservatives are such poor students.

Oh, they most certainly are. The leaders of the progressive movement of the 1920's and 30's were famous for extolling the virtues of the fascist regimes. This is all well known history. What is also well known is that before the oppression, and the terror could begin, the people had to be disarmed.

Funny how that works.

Progressives are even poorer students.

• H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”
• The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
• The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”
• Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”
• McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”
• After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”
• Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”
• NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”
• FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
• New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
• Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

All said during the greatest economic calamity since the Dark Ages. A calamity that resulted from unchecked, unfettered Capitalism run amok.

The Soviet Union was unfettered capitalism run amuck? Even if that were true, how do you justify the murder of 60 million PEASANTS? They weren't capitalists, they WERE
the ones being oppressed. Luuuucy, you've got some esplainin to doooo.....

All those quotes in praise of Fascist were made in the depths of the Great Depression. Those who praised Facism were doing so based upon the turnaround of the Fascist economies.

That Great Depression occurred due to uncheck, unfettered Capitalism.

The Great Depression happened because they tried to get out of it by raising taxes and tariffs which wrecked the recovery...then socialist FDR started trying to control all aspects of the economy and slowed down the recovery even more......

The Great Depression happened due to the reactions to it?

Conservative logic at play here! Beware!