Honest and open debate on gun control

[2aguy]

Oh, they most certainly are. The leaders of the progressive movement of the 1920's and 30's were famous for extolling the virtues of the fascist regimes. This is all well known history. What is also well known is that before the oppression, and the terror could begin, the people had to be disarmed.

Funny how that works.

Progressives are even poorer students.

• H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”
• The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
• The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”
• Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”
• McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”
• After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”
• Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”
• NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”
• FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
• New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
• Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

All said during the greatest economic calamity since the Dark Ages. A calamity that resulted from unchecked, unfettered Capitalism run amok.

The Soviet Union was unfettered capitalism run amuck? Even if that were true, how do you justify the murder of 60 million PEASANTS? They weren't capitalists, they WERE
the ones being oppressed. Luuuucy, you've got some esplainin to doooo.....

All those quotes in praise of Fascist were made in the depths of the Great Depression. Those who praised Facism were doing so based upon the turnaround of the Fascist economies.

That Great Depression occurred due to uncheck, unfettered Capitalism.

The Great Depression happened because they tried to get out of it by raising taxes and tariffs which wrecked the recovery...then socialist FDR started trying to control all aspects of the economy and slowed down the recovery even more......

The Great Depression happened due to the reactions to it?

Conservative logic at play here! Beware!

There had been several great depressions earlier in our history, one even worse than the one in the 30s....look them up...and they were all dealt with and recovered from. The difference in the 1930s was the length and depth of the depression....it just did not end...why....because in the past the economy wasn't meddled with......they took the pain and the economy improved....the government tried to fix it....raised taxes on everyone, and raised tarrifs on trade, cutting off the ability to grow out of the depression........then FDR started meddling with the economhy and the Supreme Court and desabalized the whole system........that is why the Great depression was Great....

 

[M14 Shooter]

The reason no workable ideas are being brought up is because this is not a gun problem, it is a perception problem. Because our access to information is now widespread and almost instantaneous, we think things are getting worse. This really is not the case. We just see them more.

In 1950, before all of the attempts to control gun ownership and the advent "assault weapons" the gun related homicide rate in the US was 5.1 per 100,000. In 2010, the rate was 5.3. Our population doubled, we went through tremendous changes in our population, and there has been essentially no impact upon gun related homicides. All of the laws we implemented changed nothing. All of the changes in gun design and magazine capacity changed nothing. We are essentially where we were 65 years ago.

Wait....
65 years of ever-increasing gun control has failed to change anything?
This clearly proves we need more!

 

[Nosmo King]

All said during the greatest economic calamity since the Dark Ages. A calamity that resulted from unchecked, unfettered Capitalism run amok.

The Soviet Union was unfettered capitalism run amuck? Even if that were true, how do you justify the murder of 60 million PEASANTS? They weren't capitalists, they WERE
the ones being oppressed. Luuuucy, you've got some esplainin to doooo.....

All those quotes in praise of Fascist were made in the depths of the Great Depression. Those who praised Facism were doing so based upon the turnaround of the Fascist economies.

That Great Depression occurred due to uncheck, unfettered Capitalism.

The Great Depression happened because they tried to get out of it by raising taxes and tariffs which wrecked the recovery...then socialist FDR started trying to control all aspects of the economy and slowed down the recovery even more......

The Great Depression happened due to the reactions to it?

Conservative logic at play here! Beware!

There had been several great depressions earlier in our history, one even worse than the one in the 30s....look them up...and they were all dealt with and recovered from. The difference in the 1930s was the length and depth of the depression....it just did not end...why....because in the past the economy wasn't meddled with......they took the pain and the economy improved....the government tried to fix it....raised taxes on everyone, and raised tarrifs on trade, cutting off the ability to grow out of the depression........then FDR started meddling with the economhy and the Supreme Court and desabalized the whole system........that is why the Great depression was Great....

And yet when FDR was sworn in, the Great Depression had hobbled the economy for three years under Herbert Hoover's Conservative economic policies.

 

[westwall]

You're forgetting the Soviet gulags, and Mao's wonderful resorts. Basically it is the progressive countries of the world that have murdered the most people. Usually by starvation.

The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not examples of "Progressive" countries. They are Authoritarian regimes.

Swing and a miss. Conservatives are such poor students.

Oh, they most certainly are. The leaders of the progressive movement of the 1920's and 30's were famous for extolling the virtues of the fascist regimes. This is all well known history. What is also well known is that before the oppression, and the terror could begin, the people had to be disarmed.

Funny how that works.

Progressives are even poorer students.

• H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”
• The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
• The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”
• Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”
• McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”
• After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”
• Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”
• NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”
• FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
• New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
• Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

All said during the greatest economic calamity since the Dark Ages. A calamity that resulted from unchecked, unfettered Capitalism run amok.

The Soviet Union was unfettered capitalism run amuck? Even if that were true, how do you justify the murder of 60 million PEASANTS? They weren't capitalists, they WERE
the ones being oppressed. Luuuucy, you've got some esplainin to doooo.....

All those quotes in praise of Fascist were made in the depths of the Great Depression. Those who praised Facism were doing so based upon the turnaround of the Fascist economies.

That Great Depression occurred due to uncheck, unfettered Capitalism.

They admired the precision and speed with which things were accomplished. When the Collectivization of the Ukrainian farms was underway, with the attendant 3 to 5 million dead that that entailed the progressives hailed it as a necessary act. The KNEW that millions were dying and felt it appropriate. I hate to tell you but mass murder, for any reason is NEVER acceptable, no matter how fucked up your personal belief system is.

The facts are millions were dying, the progressives knew it.....and they APPLAUDED it.

Progressivism has murdered more people in the last 150 years, than all the religions in the world have managed to murder in the last 2,000 years.

 

[PratchettFan]

The reason no workable ideas are being brought up is because this is not a gun problem, it is a perception problem. Because our access to information is now widespread and almost instantaneous, we think things are getting worse. This really is not the case. We just see them more.

In 1950, before all of the attempts to control gun ownership and the advent "assault weapons" the gun related homicide rate in the US was 5.1 per 100,000. In 2010, the rate was 5.3. Our population doubled, we went through tremendous changes in our population, and there has been essentially no impact upon gun related homicides. All of the laws we implemented changed nothing. All of the changes in gun design and magazine capacity changed nothing. We are essentially where we were 65 years ago.

Wait....
65 years of ever-increasing gun control has failed to change anything?
This clearly proves we need more!

Obviously. As any decent politician will tell you, if you can't do anything about the problem at least do something that will make it look like you are.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Post 106...
Still looking for sound reply to post #1....

 

[Derideo_Te]

Post 106...
Still looking for sound reply to post #1....

The OP obviously has everyone who is offering him sound and valid answers on ignore because I have seen several that are feasible.

Then again maybe the OP isn't interested in actually having an "honest and open debate on gun control" at all.

Maybe he just wanted an excuse to whine instead.

 

[PratchettFan]

Post 106...
Still looking for sound reply to post #1....

The OP obviously has everyone who is offering him sound and valid answers on ignore because I have seen several that are feasible.

Then again maybe the OP isn't interested in actually having an "honest and open debate on gun control" at all.

Maybe he just wanted an excuse to whine instead.

There have been no sound or valid answers.

 

[Nosmo King]

The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not examples of "Progressive" countries. They are Authoritarian regimes.

Swing and a miss. Conservatives are such poor students.

Oh, they most certainly are. The leaders of the progressive movement of the 1920's and 30's were famous for extolling the virtues of the fascist regimes. This is all well known history. What is also well known is that before the oppression, and the terror could begin, the people had to be disarmed.

Funny how that works.

Progressives are even poorer students.

• H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.” Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”
• The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
• The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”
• Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”
• McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”
• After having vistited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator: “I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”
• Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”
• NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”
• FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”
• New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”
• Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1223

All said during the greatest economic calamity since the Dark Ages. A calamity that resulted from unchecked, unfettered Capitalism run amok.

The Soviet Union was unfettered capitalism run amuck? Even if that were true, how do you justify the murder of 60 million PEASANTS? They weren't capitalists, they WERE
the ones being oppressed. Luuuucy, you've got some esplainin to doooo.....

All those quotes in praise of Fascist were made in the depths of the Great Depression. Those who praised Facism were doing so based upon the turnaround of the Fascist economies.

That Great Depression occurred due to uncheck, unfettered Capitalism.

They admired the precision and speed with which things were accomplished. When the Collectivization of the Ukrainian farms was underway, with the attendant 3 to 5 million dead that that entailed the progressives hailed it as a necessary act. The KNEW that millions were dying and felt it appropriate. I hate to tell you but mass murder, for any reason is NEVER acceptable, no matter how fucked up your personal belief system is.

The facts are millions were dying, the progressives knew it.....and they APPLAUDED it.

Progressivism has murdered more people in the last 150 years, than all the religions in the world have managed to murder in the last 2,000 years.

So Progressives decades ago, generations ago not only praised Fascism but understood the inherent evil of the Fascists.

And today, decades later, generations later, I am to be held to account for the sins of my fathers. Do you really want to play that game knowing the evils Conservatives have perpetrated? Is this primrose path of an argument solving any problems? Divining any solutions? Or is it in fact, rhetorical masturbation meant only to please you and further no other goal than that?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Post 106...
Still looking for sound reply to post #1....

The OP obviously has everyone who is offering him sound and valid answers on ignore because I have seen several that are feasible.
Then again maybe the OP isn't interested in actually having an "honest and open debate on gun control" at all.
Maybe he just wanted an excuse to whine instead.

There have been no sound or valid answers.

Indeed -- none of them reach the goal of condition #1 and/or the qualification of condition #2.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Indeed -- none of them reach the goal of condition #1 and/or the qualification of condition #2.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Ban all weapons with semi or fully automatic firing systems. Such weapons belong in the hands of 'well regulated militias', not on the streets. Permit long barrel rifles and shotguns for sporting purposes. Permit revolvers. Ban handguns equipped with magazines holding more than nine rounds.

Violates the constitution. Fail.
Does not prevent criminals from getting guns. Fail.

 

[2aguy]

The Soviet Union was unfettered capitalism run amuck? Even if that were true, how do you justify the murder of 60 million PEASANTS? They weren't capitalists, they WERE
the ones being oppressed. Luuuucy, you've got some esplainin to doooo.....

All those quotes in praise of Fascist were made in the depths of the Great Depression. Those who praised Facism were doing so based upon the turnaround of the Fascist economies.

That Great Depression occurred due to uncheck, unfettered Capitalism.

The Great Depression happened because they tried to get out of it by raising taxes and tariffs which wrecked the recovery...then socialist FDR started trying to control all aspects of the economy and slowed down the recovery even more......

The Great Depression happened due to the reactions to it?

Conservative logic at play here! Beware!

There had been several great depressions earlier in our history, one even worse than the one in the 30s....look them up...and they were all dealt with and recovered from. The difference in the 1930s was the length and depth of the depression....it just did not end...why....because in the past the economy wasn't meddled with......they took the pain and the economy improved....the government tried to fix it....raised taxes on everyone, and raised tarrifs on trade, cutting off the ability to grow out of the depression........then FDR started meddling with the economhy and the Supreme Court and desabalized the whole system........that is why the Great depression was Great....

And yet when FDR was sworn in, the Great Depression had hobbled the economy for three years under Herbert Hoover's Conservative economic policies.

No....he raised taxes and tarrifs sinking any hope of getting out of the depression....

 

[Derideo_Te]

Ban all weapons with semi or fully automatic firing systems. Such weapons belong in the hands of 'well regulated militias', not on the streets. Permit long barrel rifles and shotguns for sporting purposes. Permit revolvers. Ban handguns equipped with magazines holding more than nine rounds.

Violates the constitution. Fail.
Does not prevent criminals from getting guns. Fail.

BZZZT Wrong!

There is no violation of the constitution limiting the kinds of weapons that can be sold. No one has a 2A right to an ICBM. Equally so they don't have a right to fully automatic weapons because they serve no legitimate civilian purpose. Large magazines are the same. No civilian needs more than 9 rounds for "self defense".

And yes, if those are banned then criminals aren't going to be able to buy them either.

 

[2aguy]

Ban all weapons with semi or fully automatic firing systems. Such weapons belong in the hands of 'well regulated militias', not on the streets. Permit long barrel rifles and shotguns for sporting purposes. Permit revolvers. Ban handguns equipped with magazines holding more than nine rounds.

Violates the constitution. Fail.
Does not prevent criminals from getting guns. Fail.

BZZZT Wrong!

There is no violation of the constitution limiting the kinds of weapons that can be sold. No one has a 2A right to an ICBM. Equally so they don't have a right to fully automatic weapons because they serve no legitimate civilian purpose. Large magazines are the same no one. No civilian needs more than 9 rounds for "self defense".

And yes, if those are banned then criminals aren't going to be able to buy them either.

And how would banning magazines have stopped this mass shooting or the others.....they wouldn't because they will just use stolen magazines or illegal magazines like all the criminals in France and the rest of Europe do.....you know moron, you aren't original....others have banned all magazines....and their criminals still get 30 round magazines for rifles......

 

[2aguy]

Ban all weapons with semi or fully automatic firing systems. Such weapons belong in the hands of 'well regulated militias', not on the streets. Permit long barrel rifles and shotguns for sporting purposes. Permit revolvers. Ban handguns equipped with magazines holding more than nine rounds.

Violates the constitution. Fail.
Does not prevent criminals from getting guns. Fail.

BZZZT Wrong!

There is no violation of the constitution limiting the kinds of weapons that can be sold. No one has a 2A right to an ICBM. Equally so they don't have a right to fully automatic weapons because they serve no legitimate civilian purpose. Large magazines are the same no one. No civilian needs more than 9 rounds for "self defense".

And yes, if those are banned then criminals aren't going to be able to buy them either.

And yes, if those are banned then criminals aren't going to be able to buy them either

Are you really this stupid........all magazines of any size are banned in Europe...in particular France....and their terrorists and criminals get 30 round magazines easily, all the time...dittos in Mexico where they are also banned and the drug cartels easily get them.........dittos around the world where criminals want or need them.....they get them easily...the only ones who can't are peaceful, law abiding citizens who don't use them to kill innocent people......

 

[M14 Shooter]

Ban all weapons with semi or fully automatic firing systems. Such weapons belong in the hands of 'well regulated militias', not on the streets. Permit long barrel rifles and shotguns for sporting purposes. Permit revolvers. Ban handguns equipped with magazines holding more than nine rounds.

Violates the constitution. Fail.
Does not prevent criminals from getting guns. Fail.

BZZZT Wrong!
There is no violation of the constitution limiting the kinds of weapons that can be sold.

This is a lie, and example of why I need not ever worry about any of your responses.

3. The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment . The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition—in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute—would fail constitutional muster
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER

Still looking for a sound response to the OP.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Are you really this stupid........

No... he's that dishonest.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Ban all weapons with semi or fully automatic firing systems. Such weapons belong in the hands of 'well regulated militias', not on the streets. Permit long barrel rifles and shotguns for sporting purposes. Permit revolvers. Ban handguns equipped with magazines holding more than nine rounds.

Violates the constitution. Fail.
Does not prevent criminals from getting guns. Fail.

BZZZT Wrong!
There is no violation of the constitution limiting the kinds of weapons that can be sold.

This is a lie, and example of why I need not ever worry about any of your responses.

3. The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment . The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition—in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute—would fail constitutional muster
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER

Still looking for a sound response to the OP.

You didn't answer MY post.

Try again.

 

[M14 Shooter]

120 posts, no sound responses.
Huh.