How American gun deaths and gun laws compare to Canada's

[2aguy]

The concept here is that Canada treats gun ownership as a privilage, not a right. So instead of proving why you shouldn't have a gun, you have to prove why you should.

which actually makes a lot more sense.

So instead of proving why you shouldn't have a gun, you have to prove why you should.
would that include the gang people and other law breakers?....

So instead of proving why you shouldn't have a gun, you have to prove why you should.

And that is exactly how the Germans in the 1930s felt about guns........Jews just couldn't prove they needed guns.......even as they were pushed into the gas chambers.....dittos the political opponents of the socialists...they just could not show a need for guns....as they were executed by the police and military...

Funny how that works.....isn't it....

pushed into gas chamber with the help of the caf'rik church , Jews din't have a fixation with guns like you goyim do

University of Chicago law professor Bernard Harcourt explored this myth in depth in a 2004 article published in the Fordham Law Review. As it turns out, the Weimar Republic, the German government that immediately preceded Hitler’s, actually hadtougher gun laws than the Nazi regime. After its defeat in World War I, and agreeing to the harsh surrender terms laid out in the Treaty of Versailles, the German legislature in 1919 passed a law that effectively banned all private firearm possession, leading the government to confiscate guns already in circulation. In 1928, the Reichstag relaxed the regulation a bit, but put in place a strict registration regime that required citizens to acquire separate permits to own guns, sell them or carry them.

The 1938 law signed by Hitler that LaPierre mentions in his book basically does the opposite of what he says it did. “The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition,” Harcourt wrote. Meanwhile, many more categories of people, including Nazi party members, were exempted from gun ownership regulations altogether, while the legal age of purchase was lowered from 20 to 18, and permit lengths were extended from one year to three years.

The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns. but again Jews never had a fixation with guns to begin with.

Omer Bartov, a historian at Brown University who studies the Third Reich, notes that the Jews probably wouldn’t have had much success fighting back. “Just imagine the Jews of Germany exercising the right to bear arms and fighting the SA, SS and the Wehrmacht. The Red Army lost millions fighting the Wehrmacht, despite its tanks and planes and artillery. The Jews with pistols and shotguns would have done better?

You should read the book…Gun Control in the 3rd Reich….explains all of this…..

 

[Spinster]

Good luck devising a defensible means for comparing the two, which takes into account the diverse factors attributable to the two...

Canada lacks the large Black minority populations which have taken-over their inner cities within Living Memory and which do not mix well with their Whites.

They also lack the White Flight of Living Memory by which their White populations abandoned their cities for the suburbs, in order to avoid living in close priximity to their Blacks.

They also lack 50-60 years of inner urban degeneration by which their once-sturdy and beautiful neighborhoods have been turned into ghettos and shit-holes by their Blacks.

They also lack an ancient history of Black enslavement which gave their Blacks a permanent and un-fixable Inferiority Complex and Sense of Entitlement that stunted their growth.

They also lack shared land borders with Mexico by which fresh waves of mostly ignorant and dead-broke Latinos swarm over their borders, reinforcing old White Flight behaviors.

They also lack the new-era Gang Wars by which Latinos begin to dominate the inner cities as their numbers grow to equal and exceed the old and more stagnant Black population.

Until one factors these things - and others not yet conjured here - into the equation, any comparison between the two is more of a pointless circle-jerk than it is science.

Agreed, however, Canada does have an influx of Asian and East Indian populations, although these groups don't drag things down like Blacks and Hispanics are known to do, they do have a negative impact if nothing else by their not-fit-in cultures and attitudes. These two groups, in particular, are rude and discourteous, and resistant to assimilating into the country they immigrated.

The other point made was the lower homicide rate. This may not necessarily be due to the population mix as much as it has to do with the absence of hand guns in Canada. Let's face it--handguns are handy, whereas rifles not so much. The exercise is more about hunting game rather than humans. Allow the citizenry to hunt game, but if they want to hunt humans it's impossible to conceal, well, and it's more hassle.

The last factor is Canada actually acts on violators and punishes them, whereas here in the States, we have gotten completely lame about it. Plea bargaining, early releases, plus prosecutors' reluctancy to prosecute has made punishment a joke. Naturally, Canada is experiencing better results in these regards than we are.

 

[Harry Dresden]

[
how many of that 8800 are gang related?.....i bet more than half....

You'd be wrong.

Request Rejected

• The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged nearly 2,000 annually from 2007 to 2012. During roughly the same time period (2007 to 2011), the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States (www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 13 percent of all homicides annually.

SHort version. The vast majority of homicides in this country are NOT Gang-related.

They are usually domestic, facilitiated by the fact we have too many guns in too many households.

ok your talking deaths,im probably talking just gun violence including death.... out here on a PBS show with 4 chiefs of police and 3 District Attorneys they claimed and showed the numbers for the state that if you took gang shootings out of the equation California is one of the safest states and they said there is no reason to believe if you did the same across the country it would probably work out the same...thats what i was alluding to....

 

[Kondor3]

...Politicians can help make a climate of tolerance, or intolerance. They can impact education, they can impact social inequality, they can do so much which changes people's perceptions...

You have just touched upon a key point... trying to CHANGE peoples' perceptions... Blacks flock with Blacks... Whites flock with Whites... etc... it's OK... it's not Evil.

...South Africa... Politicians made this situation...

Doubtful... we are dealing with instinctive prejudices as well as environmental and historical ones.

...White flight happened for many reasons...

All of which circle back to the "I don't want to live next to Black people" nucleus.

...The US is hardly the most integrated country on the planet...

Never said otherwise. We have improved greatly in that area over the past 50 years since passage of the Civil Right Act and related, but we are by no means perfect.

...You say white people don't want to live next to black people. Why? There's no logical reason for people of equal status and stature in society to not want to live around each other...

I give you the primary reason for White Flight during the so-called Great Migration of Blacks from the South to the North.

...black people and white people do live side by side in many places without a problem...

Quite true. My own distant suburban town and my own subdivision and my own block are evidence of that. The White Attitude here is that a few scattered here-and-there are very welcome, so long as their numbers don't build-up beyond a threshold that would give them local political power - beyond which White Folk would start to bail from here as well.

...The issues of why people don't want to live next to each other could be similar to what happened in the Balkans...

What was that maxim... Occam's Razor?.... (paraphrase): "The least complicated answer is usually the right one."

Left to their own devices, Black Folk flock with Black Folk... White Folk with White... Yellow with Yellow... Brown with Brown... Red with Red.

Left to their own devices, people will first flock with others who look like them, then, second, act like them, then, third, think like them.

Left to our own devices, all other conditions being equal, each of us is far more likely to save a child of our own race, than a child of the other's.

That's instinctive, gut-level stuff that cannot be changed or legislated away, and some social reformer -types are unable to accept that Reality, because it dooms their own hopes.

We could revisit this issue in 10,000 years, and, instinctively, Black will still flock with Black, White with White, Yellow with Yellow, etc. - all other things being equal.

It's OK to recognize those instincts; hell, in the long run, acknowledging that Reality - the 10,000 LB elephant in the room - is the only way to move forward.

However, kidding ourselves about our own built-in prejudices, and how to work around them, while oftentimes more politically INcorrect, is also, ultimately, a doomed exercise.

Or so it seems, to this observer.

Prejudice can be changed. How politicians react to situations can fuel prejudice. If adults are being prejudiced then children will follow them. Then you have another generation of prejudice. If prejudice isn't considered acceptable then kids won't learn that prejudice is acceptable.

The perfect example of this is Germany and Austria post WW2. The Germans were split into two. The West was told it was guilty of all these crimes and it had a concerted effort to learn from history. The Austrians were told they were the victims of German aggression, and the East Germans didn't give a damn.

You look at far right parties, the NPD in Germany:

And you see it basically aligns with the former East Germany. This is no coincidence. Berlin is lower, why? Because A) half of Berlin was in the West and B) because open minded Westerners are more likely to move to Berlin than anywhere else.

Austria has a political party, the FPOe, (and had the BZOe in Carinthia under Jorg Haider until he killed himself in a car crash) which is quite far right, and yet considered a legitimate party, but was diplomatically embargoed by the EU in 2000 (even though it was in the EU).

Prejudice has be combated and, while not completely defeated, it has seen a massive reduction.

Politicians made this situation. The Soviet overlords in East Germany didn't care who people were as long as they pretended to be good Communists. Prejudice was allowed to remain because the politicians didn't care. In Austria the politicians had no reason to combat this, as long as they can ski, swim in lakes and go naked, then they don't give a damn, it's quite a conservative society anyway. But in West Germany they did care and they combated it.

Yes, in the US things have got better. However better isn't good in many respects. The racial tension that should have disappeared a long time ago is still around. Black people feel like they've been duped by the other people around them, kids grow up with no hope unless it comes from crime, and conservatives tell them everyone can make it in America, yet those saying it are putting their kids through good school and can afford to send them to university, while many black kids (25% of black people are in poverty) don't have these opportunities and are expected to make it none the less.

Your view about blacks in your neighborhood is political. The reason people don't want black people controlling is because there is a divide in the US and people share that view. But if black and white people were equal, and black people didn't feel the need to be politically black, then there wouldn't be a problem at all. Again, politicians have made this.

I believe that there is more right than wrong in your dissertation, although we do not share your optimism that racial prejudice is the sort of easy fix that you hope it to be, nor do I share your perspective that the playing field between the races should be forcibly leveled still further.

 

[Kondor3]

...Inner city degeneration is as a result of politicians not bothering with dealing with social issues properly...

There is no way that a mere politician can make White Folk want to live alongside Black Folk, as a general rule; not in the 1940s and 1950s, and not now.

...The white flight is as a result of this inner city degeneration...

Nope. Most of the White Flight took place during the Great Immigration of the period 1920-1970, with the lion's share being in the 1940s and 1950s and 1960s.

Most of those neighborhoods were still in decent shape when the White Folk bailed out.

Left to rot under Black control for most of the last 50 or 60 or 70 years, there's not much left now worth saving.

...And nothing is being done now and nothing will be done in the future, because the people with the money control the politicians and they spend so much money telling people like you what to think, so you don't realize what needs to be done in order to deal with the situation. ..

Yer a funny little feller.

Nothing was done then, nothing is being done now, and nothing is going to be done in future, because White Folk just don't want to live next to Black Folk.

Also, White Folk don't appreciate throwing good money after bad, and they've thrown a lot of money into those inner-city Black Holes with very little worthwhile coming from it.

Nobody needs to tell White Folk not to want to live next to Black Folk... they usually arrive at that conclusion all by themselves... with little or no prodding.

...They just have you harping on about how you can't take guns away and it's all the fault of black people, and you can't solve this, so don't bother, just make sure rich people are getting lots of money.

The Kiddie Table is down the hall, second door on your Left.

And following the White Flight was upper middle income Black Flight……Blacks don't want to live in Hell holes either…..and left as soon as they could too…..

Those who dared to leave the "safety" of the ghetto, anyway...

I know a great many Blacks who will not leave their Black neighborhoods because they would be leaving their Black communities and culture behind.

It's scary... moving away from places where everybody else looks like you, when that's all you've ever known.

 

[JoeB131]

Twit…..gang members cannot legally own any guns…they all have criminal records…….so it is not their "Right" to own a gun…yet they get them more easily than you or I do….and they are 15 years old and get guns faster and easier than we do…….

Wait a minute, if you are saying that gun ownership is a right, why can't they get guns. That concedes the point that there's a legal standard where you can't have a gun.

My legal standard is just higher than yours.

Of course, the gun industry floods the inner cities with guns, becuase then the Tiny Dicks will be all scared and want guns, too.

 

[Kondor3]

...Of course, the gun industry floods the inner cities with guns...

They do?

To which objective, credible source of competent and statistically significant research and assessment in this context would you like to point the reading audience?

 

[JoeB131]

You should read the book…Gun Control in the 3rd Reich….explains all of this….

A bood serious historians laugh at.

 

[2aguy]

Twit…..gang members cannot legally own any guns…they all have criminal records…….so it is not their "Right" to own a gun…yet they get them more easily than you or I do….and they are 15 years old and get guns faster and easier than we do…….

Wait a minute, if you are saying that gun ownership is a right, why can't they get guns. That concedes the point that there's a legal standard where you can't have a gun.

My legal standard is just higher than yours.

Of course, the gun industry floods the inner cities with guns, becuase then the Tiny Dicks will be all scared and want guns, too.

Except they don't....democrats like Rahm keep gun stores out of the inner cities....of course the criminals still get all the guns they want, it is just normal gun owners who can't get guns.

 

[JoeB131]

They do?

To which objective, credible source of competent and statistically significant research and assessment in this context would you like to point the reading audience?

Why should I bother, you just claim its the 'liberal media".....

"Where the Guns Come From: The Gun Industry and Gun Commerce" by Wintemute, Garen J. - The Future of Children, Vol. 12, Issue 2, Summer-Fall 2002 | Online Research Library: Questia

When the gun industry started marketing Mack 10's and Saturday Night Specials, who do you think they were marketting to?

 

[2aguy]

Good luck devising a defensible means for comparing the two, which takes into account the diverse factors attributable to the two...

Canada lacks the large Black minority populations which have taken-over their inner cities within Living Memory and which do not mix well with their Whites.

They also lack the White Flight of Living Memory by which their White populations abandoned their cities for the suburbs, in order to avoid living in close priximity to their Blacks.

They also lack 50-60 years of inner urban degeneration by which their once-sturdy and beautiful neighborhoods have been turned into ghettos and shit-holes by their Blacks.

They also lack an ancient history of Black enslavement which gave their Blacks a permanent and un-fixable Inferiority Complex and Sense of Entitlement that stunted their growth.

They also lack shared land borders with Mexico by which fresh waves of mostly ignorant and dead-broke Latinos swarm over their borders, reinforcing old White Flight behaviors.

They also lack the new-era Gang Wars by which Latinos begin to dominate the inner cities as their numbers grow to equal and exceed the old and more stagnant Black population.

Until one factors these things - and others not yet conjured here - into the equation, any comparison between the two is more of a pointless circle-jerk than it is science.

Agreed, however, Canada does have an influx of Asian and East Indian populations, although these groups don't drag things down like Blacks and Hispanics are known to do, they do have a negative impact if nothing else by their not-fit-in cultures and attitudes. These two groups, in particular, are rude and discourteous, and resistant to assimilating into the country they immigrated.

The other point made was the lower homicide rate. This may not necessarily be due to the population mix as much as it has to do with the absence of hand guns in Canada. Let's face it--handguns are handy, whereas rifles not so much. The exercise is more about hunting game rather than humans. Allow the citizenry to hunt game, but if they want to hunt humans it's impossible to conceal, well, and it's more hassle.

The last factor is Canada actually acts on violators and punishes them, whereas here in the States, we have gotten completely lame about it. Plea bargaining, early releases, plus prosecutors' reluctancy to prosecute has made punishment a joke. Naturally, Canada is experiencing better results in these regards than we are.

Hand guns are showing up more among the criminal gangs in Canada...

 

[2aguy]

They do?

To which objective, credible source of competent and statistically significant research and assessment in this context would you like to point the reading audience?

Why should I bother, you just claim its the 'liberal media".....

"Where the Guns Come From: The Gun Industry and Gun Commerce" by Wintemute, Garen J. - The Future of Children, Vol. 12, Issue 2, Summer-Fall 2002 | Online Research Library: Questia

When the gun industry started marketing Mack 10's and Saturday Night Specials, who do you think they were marketting to?

those "saturday night specials" were affordable to poor people who couldn't get police protection...by outlawing cheap guns all they did was disarm poor, law abiding citizens who didn't have the money for expensive guns...criminals...they get whatever guns they want.

 

[2aguy]

Some more on Canada.......and it's gang problem....

Apparent gang-related violence on rise, say Montreal outreach workers

A string of apparent gang-related killings has Montreal's outreach workers worried street violence is on the rise in the city.

There have been six homicides in the city since the beginning of August.

While Montreal police say there is no confirmed link between any of the recent shootings, most involved were already known to police.



----------



Assassination of notorious Montreal gang leader sends chilling message to other kingpins, experts say


The killing of a once-powerful reputed gang leader over the weekend in the very neighbourhood where his organization was based sends a chilling message to others who may wish to compete for dominance in Montreal’s criminal underground, experts say.

According to former Bloc Québécois MP and noted gang expert Maria Mourani, Ducarme Joseph’s death on Friday in a hail of bullets in St-Michel was likely carefully planned. The killer or killers showed up “on [Joseph’s] territory, almost in his private sphere” to kill him in a “flamboyant” manner, Mourani explained, which is a clear signal that nowhere is safe — even for the most feared of kingpins.

Joseph — also known as Kenny, Ducarmel and King Kenny — cheated death for years as leader of Montreal’s 67s street gang, but his luck ran out on Friday as he was gunned just around the corner from his mother’s home.

 

[Kondor3]

They do?

To which objective, credible source of competent and statistically significant research and assessment in this context would you like to point the reading audience?

Why should I bother, you just claim its the 'liberal media".....

"Where the Guns Come From: The Gun Industry and Gun Commerce" by Wintemute, Garen J. - The Future of Children, Vol. 12, Issue 2, Summer-Fall 2002 | Online Research Library: Questia

When the gun industry started marketing Mack 10's and Saturday Night Specials, who do you think they were marketting to?

So, you dredge-up some hall-assed Liberal academia-based published study that reinforces your position, and the rest of us are supposed to take that at face value?

Oh, there's little doubt that the Gun Industry profits from inner-city thugs buying-up guns, and probably laughs up its sleeve as the feral little buggers kill each other off.

Nolo contendere.

It's just that the case for Gun Manufacturers intentionally targeting inner-city youth as a major customer segment is a little too far out in Left Field even for you, most days.

No sale.

 

[2aguy]

They do?

To which objective, credible source of competent and statistically significant research and assessment in this context would you like to point the reading audience?

Why should I bother, you just claim its the 'liberal media".....

"Where the Guns Come From: The Gun Industry and Gun Commerce" by Wintemute, Garen J. - The Future of Children, Vol. 12, Issue 2, Summer-Fall 2002 | Online Research Library: Questia

When the gun industry started marketing Mack 10's and Saturday Night Specials, who do you think they were marketting to?

So, you dredge-up some hall-assed Liberal academia-based published study that reinforces your position, and the rest of us are supposed to take that at face value?

Oh, there's little doubt that the Gun Industry profits from inner-city thugs buying-up guns, and probably laughs up its sleeve as the feral little buggers kill each other off.

Nolo contendere.

It's just that the case for Gun Manufacturers intentionally targeting inner-city youth as a major customer segment is a little too far out in Left Field even for you, most days.

No sale.

No...that is right in his wheel house......

 

[whitehall]

Canada has an area slightly larger than the U.S. and a population close to California. The U.S. supports about 20 million illegal aliens. Do the math. US Border patrol stopped about 7,500 illegal entries from Canada to the U.S. in a typical year. Since Canada ain't even on the jihad's hate radar, the polite Canadians seem to invite Pakistani terrorists. Last June a Paki Canadian amassed about $20,000 in weapons purchases. He wasn't planning to murder Canadian citizens, he was planning to murder American citizens.

 

[Spinster]

Good luck devising a defensible means for comparing the two, which takes into account the diverse factors attributable to the two...

Canada lacks the large Black minority populations which have taken-over their inner cities within Living Memory and which do not mix well with their Whites.

They also lack the White Flight of Living Memory by which their White populations abandoned their cities for the suburbs, in order to avoid living in close priximity to their Blacks.

They also lack 50-60 years of inner urban degeneration by which their once-sturdy and beautiful neighborhoods have been turned into ghettos and shit-holes by their Blacks.

They also lack an ancient history of Black enslavement which gave their Blacks a permanent and un-fixable Inferiority Complex and Sense of Entitlement that stunted their growth.

They also lack shared land borders with Mexico by which fresh waves of mostly ignorant and dead-broke Latinos swarm over their borders, reinforcing old White Flight behaviors.

They also lack the new-era Gang Wars by which Latinos begin to dominate the inner cities as their numbers grow to equal and exceed the old and more stagnant Black population.

Until one factors these things - and others not yet conjured here - into the equation, any comparison between the two is more of a pointless circle-jerk than it is science.

Agreed, however, Canada does have an influx of Asian and East Indian populations, although these groups don't drag things down like Blacks and Hispanics are known to do, they do have a negative impact if nothing else by their not-fit-in cultures and attitudes. These two groups, in particular, are rude and discourteous, and resistant to assimilating into the country they immigrated.

The other point made was the lower homicide rate. This may not necessarily be due to the population mix as much as it has to do with the absence of hand guns in Canada. Let's face it--handguns are handy, whereas rifles not so much. The exercise is more about hunting game rather than humans. Allow the citizenry to hunt game, but if they want to hunt humans it's impossible to conceal, well, and it's more hassle.

The last factor is Canada actually acts on violators and punishes them, whereas here in the States, we have gotten completely lame about it. Plea bargaining, early releases, plus prosecutors' reluctancy to prosecute has made punishment a joke. Naturally, Canada is experiencing better results in these regards than we are.

Hand guns are showing up more among the criminal gangs in Canada...

Okay, guns with criminals show up everywhere whether legal or illegally. Fact still remains, handguns aren't legal in Canada unless they're equipment of the police force, and that was the point of my post.

 

[initforme]

Slow and steady...Canadians smarter than us. It isn't the guns. Canadians just a tad smarter. Pretty easy one.

 

[gipper]

If only this man were POTUS.

 

[Kondor3]

Slow and steady...Canadians smarter than us. It isn't the guns. Canadians just a tad smarter. Pretty easy one.

Speak for yourself...