How American gun deaths and gun laws compare to Canada's

[M14 Shooter]

Because mass shootings are a huge issue in the US.

Who told you this?
Of the 11961 murders in 2014, 559 (4.6%) were involved in a multi-victim event, not all of which were shootings; not all of the shootings were "mass shootings" as defined by the FBI.
HOWever.... at least 5713 murders (43%) involved black offenders - clearly, this is a much bigger problem, one you refuse to acknowledge, much less focus on.

And to pretend it's not and then just write it off as emotion is pathetic

YOU justified your focus on mass shootings with the emotions of people that "would like to go to the movies or school without having to worry about some loon with a chip of their shoulder shooting them because they've had a bad day.".
If you do not base your argument on emotion, you have no argument.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong….the nazis came to power because anyone who was a political opponent was beaten and their business destroyed while the police did nothing. So as they were coming to power they taught normal people…who were unarmed, not to interfere with them or resist them….and then they came to power….and again, they used the gun registration records created and collected in the Weimar Republic to disarm their political enemies and the Jews……who they then sent to gas chambers.


Then, after they defeated the weak post World War 1 militaries of the rest of Europe, the civilian populations, being unarmed, were defenseless against the German occupation of their countries……..

Had normal German opponents of the nazis had guns, they nazis could not have intimidated their way to power. Had every country in Europe been like Switzerland, with over 435,000 armed civilians ready to fight against an invasion….the ability of the Germans to take and hold those countries would have been impossible…….and the death camps would not have happened.

No that is complete fantasy.

How could they take the guns before they were in power? You aren't even making sense. Hitler did not make any new gun restrictions. And obviously a few armed citizens weren't going to stop him. Your claims are ridiculous.

They didn't….the Weimar Republic began banning and confiscating gun and registering those left….the nazis ignored all those laws of course. Hitler used the gun registration records from the Weimar government to disarm the last gun owners and Jews to make sure only the nazis and their allies had guns.

And no…had there been wide spread gun ownership at our levels the nazis would never have been able to beat and murder their way to power. And they could never have held all that territory with hundreds of thousands of armed civilians dedicated to resisting them…..

We have armed barbarians in Iraq and Afghanistan with old rifles and improvised bombs…and we are leaving, even though we have the most advanced military in the world….

So sell that crap somewhere else….an armed population can resist…an unarmed population is at the mercy of the guys with the guns……even if they are the police and the army.

So they came to power with strong gun regulations already in place. And they ran over almost all the militaries of the world. Your claim is just silly. Armed civilians would not have stopped them and probably wouldn't have really tried.

Yes, read Gun Control in the 3rd Reich…it goes through the gun control measures meant to keep Germans safe after World War 1. And did you ever read history…….you don't believe the Germans ran over all the other militaries in Europe….and would have done the same to Russia if we hadn't jumped in…….

Armed civilians stop thugs from beating people and vandalizing and looting stores…..we saw this in the Black Lies Matter riots where civilians with guns kept their stores safe….and unarmed stores were burnt to the ground.

Kristalnacht would not have happened if there was wide spread gun ownership among the Jews and other Germans.

You just have propaganda and no real facts. The nazis were very popular. No minority was going to stop them, armed or not. No civilians were going to stop their military. Do you know how many troops they killed? What happened was created by WW1, gun laws have nothing to do with it.

I never said gun laws created anything……unarmed people were intimidated into submitting to the nazis…they weren't the only political faction in Germany, they were just the ones willing to crack the most heads…..

 

[2aguy]

You just have propaganda and no real facts. The nazis were very popular. No minority was going to stop them, armed or not. No civilians were going to stop their military. Do you know how many troops they killed? What happened was created by WW1, gun laws have nothing to do with it.

Lol, and just what did the Russian and Polish partisans do later on in World War 2, moron?

THEY FOUGHT THE NAZI ARMY AND WON!

You libtards are so fucking stupid, it hurts to read you stupid ass bullshit.

Yes eventually the nazis were defeated by the combination of many armies. But a small armed minority in Germany would have made no difference.

They may have prevented them from coming to power. We know how an unarmed German population turned out for the world in the 20s and 30s…..we also know the Germans did not invade Switzerland which had 435,000 civilians under arms and ready to fight.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Red herring.
In offering it, you accept the veracity of the claim made.
Good of you.
Ultimately? To make people dependent on the state for their security.

I've never denied that gun control is NOT an emotional issue. Issues can be both emotional AND rational. You know that, right?

Appeals to emotion are logical fallacies; rational, thinking people will not be swayed by fallacious arguments.
So, when you think you can introduce actual reason in your arguments, let us know.

Good grief....you really think that is the reason.

Who provides security for the e law abiding if they cannot effectively provide it for themselves?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Let's talk something modern.

Ireland and Mexico are modern, dude.

How about Yemen? They are third in the world in guns per capita. Seems their gun wielding militia types put them into chaos and war.

Yeah, you mean the chaos they have had SINCE OVERTHROWING THEIR GOVERNMENT WITH GUNS? That Yemen? roflmao

And from my link about our revolution:
The idea that militias are the bulwark against tyranny typically begins in a faulty reading of American History. The Revolutionary War was not won by Militias, but rather the Continental Army with considerable help from the French. While it is probably an exaggeration to suggest that the Militia was completely worthless during the War, that is far closer to reality than the myth promulgated by some pro-gun advocates. And the Militias that did significantly contribute to the cause were organized by the states and represented a well-disciplined, cohesive fighting force that mirrored the Continental Army, not the minutemen of lore.

Lol, American forces in battle were typicall 25% Continentals and 75% local militia, idiot and we won with that.

It was not until 1910 or so that the militia system was replaced with the National Guard system, a more formalized militia.

Modern? Did they have cell phones? Were tv's even common? No your examples are not modern.

Yes that Yemen. See how well that is working out?

Link to support your claims?

I dont have to link facts of the public domain, idiot.

And the Modern Age started by 1500, so the examples are modern, ignoramus.

In late 1776 George Washington, discouraged by the way militiamen tended to run away at the sight of a British soldier, wrathfully informed the Congress: “If I were called upon to declare…whether the militia had been most serviceable or hurtful upon the whole, I should subscribe to the latter.”

He wanted authorization and funding for a Continental Army, so what do you expect him to say?

 

[2aguy]

Yes eventually the nazis were defeated by the combination of many armies. But a small armed minority in Germany would have made no difference.

Sure it would have, just like it DID in Ireland under the tactics of Michael Collins.

Michael Collins (Irish leader) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Just like it did work for the Mexican population when their socialist government tried to strip their Catholicism from them.

Cristero War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to mention of course the American Revolution itself, doofus.

Let's talk something modern. How about Yemen? They are third in the world in guns per capita. Seems their gun wielding militia types put them into chaos and war.

And from my link about our revolution:
The idea that militias are the bulwark against tyranny typically begins in a faulty reading of American History. The Revolutionary War was not won by Militias, but rather the Continental Army with considerable help from the French. While it is probably an exaggeration to suggest that the Militia was completely worthless during the War, that is far closer to reality than the myth promulgated by some pro-gun advocates. And the Militias that did significantly contribute to the cause were organized by the states and represented a well-disciplined, cohesive fighting force that mirrored the Continental Army, not the minutemen of lore.

I didn't say militias twit. I said an armed population….

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing……all happen to people who are unarmed……let's try something different….

 

[2aguy]

When the Republicans freed the slaves from the democrats, and democrats created the ku klux klan and other violent groups to keep blacks subservient to the democrats, the only way they were able to resist was armed blacks….since the local governments were anti Republican and anti black….

 

[Jroc]

You just have propaganda and no real facts. The nazis were very popular. No minority was going to stop them, armed or not. No civilians were going to stop their military. Do you know how many troops they killed? What happened was created by WW1, gun laws have nothing to do with it.

Lol, and just what did the Russian and Polish partisans do later on in World War 2, moron?

THEY FOUGHT THE NAZI ARMY AND WON!

You libtards are so fucking stupid, it hurts to read you stupid ass bullshit.

Yes eventually the nazis were defeated by the combination of many armies. But a small armed minority in Germany would have made no difference.

Would you rather die in battle or be herded off to the death camps?



Jewish partisans were among the deadliest resistance fighters in World War II Europe

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/02/23/the-jews-who-fought-back/

 

[2aguy]

At the end of the day most gun control advocates don't give a shit if gang bangers go around shooting each other. Good luck to them. The issue is the mass shootings. The randomness of them. People would like to go to the movies or school without having to worry about some loon with a chip of their shoulder shooting them because they've had a bad day.

Further proof that anti-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

What is dishonest about what I said.

You said:
The issue is the mass shootings. The randomness of them. People would like to go to the movies or school without having to worry about some loon with a chip of their shoulder shooting them because they've had a bad day.
That is, you focus not on gun crime in general or where it is the worst, but gun crime that stirs emotion.
Thus, an appeal to emotion.
Further proof that anti-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

You guys seem to have this wet dream that take out the black and latino murders all would be okay.

Who said that?
Exactly no one.
What did -I- say?
That blacks commit more murders than whites, and are WAY over-represented in the 'offender;' column; to reduce the number of murder committed by black to their proportion of the population, our murder rate would drop 37%.

But you.. YOU want to focus on 'mass shootings' - the rarest of all gun crimes - because you know you can play on emotions.

Because mass shootings are a huge issue in the US. And to pretend it's not and then just write it off as emotion is pathetic. It adds nothing to the discussion. As for being rare, the issue is it's becoming more prevalent...

We had a total of 4 mass shootings in 2015...total deaths, 36.

Not an issue...but the media would like you to believe it is....so they can help obama get our guns....

 

[Brain357]

Yes eventually the nazis were defeated by the combination of many armies. But a small armed minority in Germany would have made no difference.

Sure it would have, just like it DID in Ireland under the tactics of Michael Collins.

Michael Collins (Irish leader) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Just like it did work for the Mexican population when their socialist government tried to strip their Catholicism from them.

Cristero War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to mention of course the American Revolution itself, doofus.

Let's talk something modern. How about Yemen? They are third in the world in guns per capita. Seems their gun wielding militia types put them into chaos and war.

And from my link about our revolution:
The idea that militias are the bulwark against tyranny typically begins in a faulty reading of American History. The Revolutionary War was not won by Militias, but rather the Continental Army with considerable help from the French. While it is probably an exaggeration to suggest that the Militia was completely worthless during the War, that is far closer to reality than the myth promulgated by some pro-gun advocates. And the Militias that did significantly contribute to the cause were organized by the states and represented a well-disciplined, cohesive fighting force that mirrored the Continental Army, not the minutemen of lore.

I didn't say militias twit. I said an armed population….

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing……all happen to people who are unarmed……let's try something different….

A militia and armed population are the same things. At least you claim that when translating the constitution.

Yemen has lots of guns. Working real well for them.

 

[2aguy]

Yes eventually the nazis were defeated by the combination of many armies. But a small armed minority in Germany would have made no difference.

Sure it would have, just like it DID in Ireland under the tactics of Michael Collins.

Michael Collins (Irish leader) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Just like it did work for the Mexican population when their socialist government tried to strip their Catholicism from them.

Cristero War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to mention of course the American Revolution itself, doofus.

Let's talk something modern. How about Yemen? They are third in the world in guns per capita. Seems their gun wielding militia types put them into chaos and war.

And from my link about our revolution:
The idea that militias are the bulwark against tyranny typically begins in a faulty reading of American History. The Revolutionary War was not won by Militias, but rather the Continental Army with considerable help from the French. While it is probably an exaggeration to suggest that the Militia was completely worthless during the War, that is far closer to reality than the myth promulgated by some pro-gun advocates. And the Militias that did significantly contribute to the cause were organized by the states and represented a well-disciplined, cohesive fighting force that mirrored the Continental Army, not the minutemen of lore.

I didn't say militias twit. I said an armed population….

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing……all happen to people who are unarmed……let's try something different….

A militia and armed population are the same things. At least you claim that when translating the constitution.

Yemen has lots of guns. Working real well for them.

No...that is what you guys claim when you want to disarm individual citizens......

We have lots of guns too........and if you don't live in a democrat city you are very safe.

357 million guns in private hands...... 505 accidental deaths and 8,124 gun murders mostly committed by criminals murdering other criminals....

The 357,000,000 is the larger number.......

 

[Kondor3]

Your words referenced "shooting back".

What you really said was "initiating the shooting".

Should they "start it", they will be given very short shrift.

guy, your sort never makes those kinds of distinctions when talking about how you all needs your guns to protect yourself against the "gummit".

And I don't think you'd be as sympathetic to armed Hispanics taking over the immigration center as you would be to the Bundy Family seizing federal lands and buildings.

The rest of your screaming rant is a bunch of Stormfront nonsense that isn't worth my time to address, because you are getting off subject.

Point is, you guys wouldn't suddenly be more friendly to illegal immigrants or Muslims if they started using their second amendment rights to fight back. You'd be doing exactly what you said, expecting the police and the National Guard to do something about them.

so it is EQUALLY absurd for people like you and Dick Tiny (aka 2AGuy) to claim that if ONLY the Jews in Germany had guns, they'd have stopped the Holocaust. Of course they wouldn't have. The Holocaust happened because you have anti-Semitism hard-wired into Christian theology. The Jews killed Jesus. Therefore, they deserve whatever they get.

Yes, after the Holocaust, everyone feels all bad about that, but before it, no one had much of a problem with it. And a few Jews shooting a German soldier wouldn't have made that much better.

Well said. The claim that guns could have stopped what happened in Germany is obviously ridiculous.

That's marvelous...

And now, all you need to do, is to direct that, at whomever said it (it wasn't me), and you'll be all set...

 

[Brain357]

Let's talk something modern.

Ireland and Mexico are modern, dude.

How about Yemen? They are third in the world in guns per capita. Seems their gun wielding militia types put them into chaos and war.

Yeah, you mean the chaos they have had SINCE OVERTHROWING THEIR GOVERNMENT WITH GUNS? That Yemen? roflmao

And from my link about our revolution:
The idea that militias are the bulwark against tyranny typically begins in a faulty reading of American History. The Revolutionary War was not won by Militias, but rather the Continental Army with considerable help from the French. While it is probably an exaggeration to suggest that the Militia was completely worthless during the War, that is far closer to reality than the myth promulgated by some pro-gun advocates. And the Militias that did significantly contribute to the cause were organized by the states and represented a well-disciplined, cohesive fighting force that mirrored the Continental Army, not the minutemen of lore.

Lol, American forces in battle were typicall 25% Continentals and 75% local militia, idiot and we won with that.

It was not until 1910 or so that the militia system was replaced with the National Guard system, a more formalized militia.

Modern? Did they have cell phones? Were tv's even common? No your examples are not modern.

Yes that Yemen. See how well that is working out?

Link to support your claims?

I dont have to link facts of the public domain, idiot.

And the Modern Age started by 1500, so the examples are modern, ignoramus.

In late 1776 George Washington, discouraged by the way militiamen tended to run away at the sight of a British soldier, wrathfully informed the Congress: “If I were called upon to declare…whether the militia had been most serviceable or hurtful upon the whole, I should subscribe to the latter.”

He wanted authorization and funding for a Continental Army, so what do you expect him to say?

He wouldn't have needed a continental army if the militia didn't run away at the sight of the British. Think I believe George Washington over you. You lose.

 

[Brain357]

Yes eventually the nazis were defeated by the combination of many armies. But a small armed minority in Germany would have made no difference.

Sure it would have, just like it DID in Ireland under the tactics of Michael Collins.

Michael Collins (Irish leader) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Just like it did work for the Mexican population when their socialist government tried to strip their Catholicism from them.

Cristero War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to mention of course the American Revolution itself, doofus.

Let's talk something modern. How about Yemen? They are third in the world in guns per capita. Seems their gun wielding militia types put them into chaos and war.

And from my link about our revolution:
The idea that militias are the bulwark against tyranny typically begins in a faulty reading of American History. The Revolutionary War was not won by Militias, but rather the Continental Army with considerable help from the French. While it is probably an exaggeration to suggest that the Militia was completely worthless during the War, that is far closer to reality than the myth promulgated by some pro-gun advocates. And the Militias that did significantly contribute to the cause were organized by the states and represented a well-disciplined, cohesive fighting force that mirrored the Continental Army, not the minutemen of lore.

I didn't say militias twit. I said an armed population….

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing……all happen to people who are unarmed……let's try something different….

A militia and armed population are the same things. At least you claim that when translating the constitution.

Yemen has lots of guns. Working real well for them.

No...that is what you guys claim when you want to disarm individual citizens......

We have lots of guns too........and if you don't live in a democrat city you are very safe.

357 million guns in private hands...... 505 accidental deaths and 8,124 gun murders mostly committed by criminals murdering other criminals....

The 357,000,000 is the larger number.......

No the anti gun people claim the constitution is only for militias. Individuals clearly aren't militias.

Your stats really show how guns aren't needed for defense.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

When the Republicans freed the slaves from the democrats, and democrats created the ku klux klan and other violent groups to keep blacks subservient to the democrats, the only way they were able to resist was armed blacks….since the local governments were anti Republican and anti black….

And this is where the first gun control laws came to be in this nation—law enacted by Democrats at the behest anf for the benefit of the Ku Klux Klan. Gun control laws were from the beginning, and remain to this day motivated by a desire to disarm certain groups so that other groups may more easily and safely prey on them.

 

[tyroneweaver]

And they don't have a gun lobby like the NRA pimping for the gun industry

“When looking at firearm-related homicide rates in comparable countries, Canada’s rate is about seven times lower than that of the United States (3.5 per 100,000 population)"



According to a StatsCan report from 2012 – the most recent year available – the U.S. suffered a total of 8,813 murders involving the use of firearms that year. Canada, in the same year, recorded just 172 firearms-related homicides.

How American gun deaths and gun laws compare to Canada's

You guys on the left love islamic domestic terrorism so you can sell your anti gun agenda and not the real problem.

 

[westwall]

So imagine this. America has a brain fart and elects Trump, and Trump orders the mass deportation of "illegals". Some of those illegals have guns and start shooting back. What do you think would be the reaction of most Americans? Do you think they will start considering immigration reform? Or do you think they'll DEMAND government do something about it?

Ummmmm, it's ILLEGAL for illegal aliens to have guns. So clearly it is imposible for them to get them....well, at least according to you.

 

[JoeB131]

Your words referenced "shooting back".

What you really said was "initiating the shooting".

Should they "start it", they will be given very short shrift.

guy, your sort never makes those kinds of distinctions when talking about how you all needs your guns to protect yourself against the "gummit". ...

What "sort" is that, Joe?

...And I don't think you'd be as sympathetic to armed Hispanics taking over the immigration center as you would be to the Bundy Family seizing federal lands and buildings...

Are you operating under the delusion that I support(ed) the Bundy Family?

...The rest of your screaming rant is a bunch of Stormfront nonsense that isn't worth my time to address, because you are getting off subject...

Stormfront?

Being 'Anti-Illegals" does not equate to neo-Nazism.

It is that kind of Leftist hyperbole - spanning the past couple of decades, and concentrated in the past 7-8 years, that is making Trump look like a viable alternative.

In your shoes, I, too, would decline to address the core issues (the greatly reduced need for continued immigration, motives of the parties, lack of enforcement, etc.) raised in such texts.

...Point is, you guys wouldn't suddenly be more friendly to illegal immigrants or Muslims if they started using their second amendment rights to fight back...

There is no physical, gun-toting "fighting back" to which an Illegal Alien is entitled, in the context of US Government operations to deport them from our soil.

...You'd be doing exactly what you said, expecting the police and the National Guard to do something about them...

That is the function of the Police, the National Guard, the Reserves, and our active duty Armed Forces - to defend the Republic and its People against its enemies; such as Invaders on our soil, engaged in armed rebellion against the lawful authority of the United States - should your imaginary scenario ever actually unfold.

....so it is EQUALLY absurd for people like you and Dick Tiny (aka 2AGuy) to claim that if ONLY the Jews in Germany had guns, they'd have stopped the Holocaust...

Are you operating under the delusion that I do not support wholesale Gun Control reforms?

... Of course they wouldn't have. The Holocaust happened because you have anti-Semitism hard-wired into Christian theology. The Jews killed Jesus. Therefore, they deserve whatever they get...

Which is, no doubt, one of the reasons why you defend Islam so rigorously.

...after the Holocaust, everyone feels all bad about that, but before it, no one had much of a problem with it. And a few Jews shooting a German soldier wouldn't have made that much better.

I have no idea what you're yammering about.

Then again, neither do you.

So... it's a wash.

Do you think arguing one sentence at a time makes you sound smarter, or do you think you can distract the people who are dumber than you are.

Yes, Nativism is racism. It was shit 100 years ago when the Klan did it, it's shit today when Trump does it.

Imagine how silly you are going to look in 100 years.

 

[JoeB131]

Ummmmm, it's ILLEGAL for illegal aliens to have guns. So clearly it is imposible for them to get them....well, at least according to you.

But that isn't the position of you gun nuts. Gun ownership is a right up there along side freedom of religion, speech, due process, protection from Cruel and Unusual punishment. If you accept the gun nut position that you need guns to protect you from the government, you should be all for those illegals shooting federal agents. As opposed to just white people shooting federal agents at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

 

[JoeB131]

wrong…..suicides don't count…

That is the truth, the fact and the reality.

are you done with your canned talking points, or do you have anything new to add to the Conversation, Dick Tiny?

Fact is, we have 33,000 gun deaths in this country every year. Only 1800 or so can be traced to "gangs". That's according to the federal agency that tracks gang violence.