How do people survive on minimum wage?

[grunt11b]

They don't, they can't, I've been saying that for years, more than 75% of those working for minimum wage are adults and minimum wage currently has the lowest spending power in history. In the richest country in the world, the poorest worker should make a living wage.

Guess they better start giving a shit and get an education or learn a trade just like the rest of us then, because they are not owed a fucking job, they have to earn it just like the rest of us. That or go without.

 

[grunt11b]

They don't, they can't, I've been saying that for years, more than 75% of those working for minimum wage are adults and minimum wage currently has the lowest spending power in history. In the richest country in the world, the poorest worker should make a living wage.

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

That's why Thomas Jefferson warned that no nation could survive a centralized bank.

 

[Texanmike]

Once mimimum wage got to be high enough so that people were expected to survive on it for their lifetimes, raise their families on it, retire as a minimum wage worker, there was no reason to hire teens who act like teenagers until they are incentivized to move on. It's one of the reasons teens can't get a job today. If you HAVE to pay $7.00 an hour to someone, would you hire a teenager who was looking for their first job or an adult with a few years of work experience.

How has this been solved? Really look at the solutions that have been schemed up. Teens "volunteer" they become interns and work for free so that they can establish some kind of work history. In some industries it is almost impossile to get a job without several years of unpaid labor. A teen ager can't get a job flipping burgers for minimum wage, those are held by adults with children at home. But they can work for free IF they win the work for no pay lottery. So can retirees! Jobs that paid at one time now look for unpaid volunteers so that people can be "busy" in retirement years.

The job market has never sucked more in my lifetime than it does right now. The ladder to success is choked with people camped out in their position trying to hold on to what little they have. A glut of motivated, desperate workers is the perfect time to reverse any wins labor may have had in the last 50 years and train a new generation to settle for less than their parents had.

What should minimum wage be then? What is your solution to the perceived problem?

Mike

 

[JoeNormal]

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

What you've described here is known as a positive feedback loop in science and engineering. However, given that only a small percentage of our economy revolves around minimum wage, the effects on price would be minimal.

OK. I'll try asking you. What should minimum wage be?

Mike

It's been almost 30 years since I made minimum wage so I have only a vague idea. I suspect it would take about $10/hr to keep a human in anything above squalor.

 

[grunt11b]

There are also jobs for which minimum wage does not apply. I think the going rate for table waiters here in Atlanta is $2.13/hr. They are expected to make up the difference by hustling for tips...giving good service, etc. A decent bartender makes $5.00/hr.

I tip rather heavily wherever I eat and drink because I know these people don't make shit compared to my salary...and they're just tryin' to make a livin'...put some bread on the table for those grubby little crumb snatchers crawlin' around the home place.

I feel a bit of guilt every time I treat myself to a new thousand dollar pistol...happened again just yesterday.

I dont feel bad treating myself to anything, I started out right where those on minimum wage are right now, and worked my ass off to get where I am today. Noone gave shit to me that I did not earn.

 

[grunt11b]

Minimum wage isn't designed to be lived on... it's at best a bare minimum, entry level wage.

Exactly, it was meant for low skill level employees like High school kids and what not. It was never meant for someone who chose to break the law, do prison time, decide when they got out of prison to pop out 5 kids and then expect to live off of the wage. When your parents tell you to do you best in high school, and go to college, and to make something of yourself they are not just paying lip service....this is the shit they are talking about.

 

[occupied]

Once mimimum wage got to be high enough so that people were expected to survive on it for their lifetimes, raise their families on it, retire as a minimum wage worker, there was no reason to hire teens who act like teenagers until they are incentivized to move on. It's one of the reasons teens can't get a job today. If you HAVE to pay $7.00 an hour to someone, would you hire a teenager who was looking for their first job or an adult with a few years of work experience.

How has this been solved? Really look at the solutions that have been schemed up. Teens "volunteer" they become interns and work for free so that they can establish some kind of work history. In some industries it is almost impossile to get a job without several years of unpaid labor. A teen ager can't get a job flipping burgers for minimum wage, those are held by adults with children at home. But they can work for free IF they win the work for no pay lottery. So can retirees! Jobs that paid at one time now look for unpaid volunteers so that people can be "busy" in retirement years.

The job market has never sucked more in my lifetime than it does right now. The ladder to success is choked with people camped out in their position trying to hold on to what little they have. A glut of motivated, desperate workers is the perfect time to reverse any wins labor may have had in the last 50 years and train a new generation to settle for less than their parents had.

What should minimum wage be then? What is your solution to the perceived problem?

Mike

My solution would require a time machine or me being declared Emperor. We are already screwed out of thirty years of gains in real wealth creation by the working class, how do you fill a hole that big?

 

[Texanmike]

What you've described here is known as a positive feedback loop in science and engineering. However, given that only a small percentage of our economy revolves around minimum wage, the effects on price would be minimal.

OK. I'll try asking you. What should minimum wage be?

Mike

It's been almost 30 years since I made minimum wage so I have only a vague idea. I suspect it would take about $10/hr to keep a human in anything above squalor.

So what would you do with someone who is making... $10/hr? They are making above minimum wage right now (which means that they have 1/3 more buying power than the purchasing power of someone making minimum wage). Is their standard of living of no concern? Even the guy making $12/hr.. he had 60% more purchasing power than the very bottom of the totem pole... now he makes a mere 20% more than that. He's worked his way up a little bit and crawled out of the bare minimum. He's right back where he started though.

Mike

 

[grunt11b]

They don't, they can't, I've been saying that for years, more than 75% of those working for minimum wage are adults and minimum wage currently has the lowest spending power in history. In the richest country in the world, the poorest worker should make a living wage.

What is a 'living wage'? Given that if a business increases what it pays its workers, it generally has to increase the price to its customers... therefore the cost of living goes up, which means the 'living wage' is no longer a 'living wage' which means it needs to be increased... which leads to increased prices to customers, which leads to an increase in the cost of living, which leads to an increase in the 'living wage', which leads to.... I think you get where I'm going with this. There is no simple answer... and people really should recognize that and stop expecting simple answers.

So, what is the complex answer?

The callous conservative answer is, "it's all about personal responsibility"; and that CG is a simple answer and a simple solution solved by saying or thinking, "I got mine, screw the rest of them".

And the simple liberal answer is "Don't ever make any effort, we'll simply steal it from the conservatives and give it to you".

 

[Texanmike]

The job market has never sucked more in my lifetime than it does right now. The ladder to success is choked with people camped out in their position trying to hold on to what little they have. A glut of motivated, desperate workers is the perfect time to reverse any wins labor may have had in the last 50 years and train a new generation to settle for less than their parents had.

What should minimum wage be then? What is your solution to the perceived problem?

Mike

My solution would require a time machine or me being declared Emperor. We are already screwed out of thirty years of gains in real wealth creation by the working class, how do you fill a hole that big?

So you dno't have a real solution. And what is this "screwed out of thirty years of gains". How do you figure?

Mike

 

[buckeye45_73]

The job market has never sucked more in my lifetime than it does right now. The ladder to success is choked with people camped out in their position trying to hold on to what little they have. A glut of motivated, desperate workers is the perfect time to reverse any wins labor may have had in the last 50 years and train a new generation to settle for less than their parents had.

What should minimum wage be then? What is your solution to the perceived problem?

Mike

My solution would require a time machine or me being declared Emperor. We are already screwed out of thirty years of gains in real wealth creation by the working class, how do you fill a hole that big?

Well you have confirmed conservative thought of liberals wanting a dictator. gratz!!!!!!!

 

[JoeNormal]

OK. I'll try asking you. What should minimum wage be?

Mike

It's been almost 30 years since I made minimum wage so I have only a vague idea. I suspect it would take about $10/hr to keep a human in anything above squalor.

So what would you do with someone who is making... $10/hr? They are making above minimum wage right now (which means that they have 1/3 more buying power than the purchasing power of someone making minimum wage). Is their standard of living of no concern? Even the guy making $12/hr.. he had 60% more purchasing power than the very bottom of the totem pole... now he makes a mere 20% more than that. He's worked his way up a little bit and crawled out of the bare minimum. He's right back where he started though.

Mike

No, this gets back to what I said originally. Raising the minimum wage would have negligible effect on prices. This issue comes up occasionally, the biggest fury was when there was a debate about raising the wage of produce workers to the point where Americans would do those jobs. I think they calculated that doubling the wage of these workers would add about 2 cents to the price of a head of lettuce.

Maybe there'd be some resentment from the guys who are making $10/hour already. I've found myself in these positions before but somehow got over it.

 

[grunt11b]

There are also jobs for which minimum wage does not apply. I think the going rate for table waiters here in Atlanta is $2.13/hr. They are expected to make up the difference by hustling for tips...giving good service, etc. A decent bartender makes $5.00/hr.

I tip rather heavily wherever I eat and drink because I know these people don't make shit compared to my salary...and they're just tryin' to make a livin'...put some bread on the table for those grubby little crumb snatchers crawlin' around the home place.

I feel a bit of guilt every time I treat myself to a new thousand dollar pistol...happened again just yesterday.

You can send your pistol to me to assuage your guilt.

Of course I have no use for a $1k pistol. But whatever.

How about a $2500 Python?

If you could find one these days. My dad had a nice 357 colt python back in the 70's - 80's, 6 inch vented rib barrel. Beautiful hand gun. Wish he still had it.

 

[grunt11b]

---(They don't they just exist after 3 years they become zombies)----

Article> One of my clients recently reported getting a job at a fast-food restaurant. Since she's been unemployed and desperately looking for work for nearly a year, I was thrilled for her. She was very excited that she'll be making $7.50 an hour -– a whole quarter more than minimum wage.



After she left my office, I got out a calculator. I've never worked for minimum wage, so I didn't know exactly how much -- or how little -- money that is.



Assuming 80 hours per pay period, my client will be bringing home around $462 every two weeks. That's with no health insurance or retirement contributions.



If I brought home $924 a month, would I even be able to survive? I decided to find out.

read more How do people survive on minimum wage?- MSN Money

Most people only Start out Making Minimum Wage. If you are still making Minimum Wage at the Same Job 10 Years later. Perhaps you are not a very good worker? Or not very Motivated to go out and find a better Job?

Minimum Wage Jobs are suppose to be Entry level Jobs, not a career.

I think we have a whole slew of people these days that are just content on "Just" getting by, and expect anything extra to be given to them for nothing. That is where the problem lies, not in the system.

 

[The T]

---(They don't they just exist after 3 years they become zombies)----

Article> One of my clients recently reported getting a job at a fast-food restaurant. Since she's been unemployed and desperately looking for work for nearly a year, I was thrilled for her. She was very excited that she'll be making $7.50 an hour -– a whole quarter more than minimum wage.



After she left my office, I got out a calculator. I've never worked for minimum wage, so I didn't know exactly how much -- or how little -- money that is.



Assuming 80 hours per pay period, my client will be bringing home around $462 every two weeks. That's with no health insurance or retirement contributions.



If I brought home $924 a month, would I even be able to survive? I decided to find out.

read more How do people survive on minimum wage?- MSN Money

Most people only Start out Making Minimum Wage. If you are still making Minimum Wage at the Same Job 10 Years later. Perhaps you are not a very good worker? Or not very Motivated to go out and find a better Job?

Minimum Wage Jobs are suppose to be Entry level Jobs, not a career.

I think we have a whole slew of people these days that are just content on "Just" getting by, and expect anything extra to be given to them for nothing. That is where the problem lies, not in the system.

Attitude is everything.

 

[Paulie]

---(They don't they just exist after 3 years they become zombies)----

Article> One of my clients recently reported getting a job at a fast-food restaurant. Since she's been unemployed and desperately looking for work for nearly a year, I was thrilled for her. She was very excited that she'll be making $7.50 an hour -– a whole quarter more than minimum wage.



After she left my office, I got out a calculator. I've never worked for minimum wage, so I didn't know exactly how much -- or how little -- money that is.



Assuming 80 hours per pay period, my client will be bringing home around $462 every two weeks. That's with no health insurance or retirement contributions.



If I brought home $924 a month, would I even be able to survive? I decided to find out.

read more How do people survive on minimum wage?- MSN Money

There's the first problem right there. People getting by on minwage jobs do not work 80 hours every 2 weeks. They work 80hrs every week. Minimum. I knew a guy, a Thai immigrant, who worked a day job, a night job, and a weekend job. So double that to over $1800/mo. Yeah, you can get by on that.
Second, the number of heads of households who work min wage jobs is miniscule. Holders of such jobs are typically married women returning to the workforce, teenagers, people living with others who are earning money.
Finally, very few people stay at min wage. As they develop skills and experience they increase their pay scales dramatically.
Of course if you increase the min wage you do away with jobs like that, and make it harder for people to get on the ladder. This is why black teen unemployment is over 40%.

A good post from Rabbi.

This is one of the many issues where libertarians and conservatives are in agreement. That's why it's such a shame that you don't want to include us. We could really get a lot of shit done but you don't want any part of it.

 

[grunt11b]

I make over minimum wage but when I started my job I made minimum wage and was fucking glad to have it too.....You can all bitch about how small amount of money it is but it is a hell of a lot more then nothing you greedy idiot liberals. I got raises based on my performance the way it is suppose to be. I still dont make much money but I still am grateful cause it helps feed my family without being a welfare slave.

Great, a thread for you to bitch about welfare recipients! Hurray!

It's only natural for those of us who have to pay for someone elses lack of responsibility to feel a little bit of animosity towards them.

 

[Cammmpbell]

---(They don't they just exist after 3 years they become zombies)----

Article> One of my clients recently reported getting a job at a fast-food restaurant. Since she's been unemployed and desperately looking for work for nearly a year, I was thrilled for her. She was very excited that she'll be making $7.50 an hour -– a whole quarter more than minimum wage.



After she left my office, I got out a calculator. I've never worked for minimum wage, so I didn't know exactly how much -- or how little -- money that is.



Assuming 80 hours per pay period, my client will be bringing home around $462 every two weeks. That's with no health insurance or retirement contributions.



If I brought home $924 a month, would I even be able to survive? I decided to find out.

read more How do people survive on minimum wage?- MSN Money

Brother...can you spare a dime. You people don't know shit. After Hoover and the big banks ruined the entire economy in the late 20's, early 30's this country was crippled so bad it took FDR years to straighten things out. People who had been OK began to hobo and beg. Not just a few people, millions. Where I'm from there was nearly 50% unemployed.

Now...after Bush, Bernanke and Paulson pulled off their fiasco things are rough but at least there's government help. There wasn't a damn thing when FDR took the helm. Old and crippled people ended up in poor houses and were buried in unmarked graves. Exactly where the Republicans and T Party would like to see what used to be the middle class return.

 

[grunt11b]

I make over minimum wage but when I started my job I made minimum wage and was fucking glad to have it too.....You can all bitch about how small amount of money it is but it is a hell of a lot more then nothing you greedy idiot liberals. I got raises based on my performance the way it is suppose to be. I still dont make much money but I still am grateful cause it helps feed my family without being a welfare slave.

Great, a thread for you to bitch about welfare recipients! Hurray!

And they wouldn't be RECIPIENTS for Welfare but for WHAT?

Care to expand Cowfart?

I bet if welfare just ended all of a sudden, the unemployment rate would drop like a rock. Granted some people really do need to be on it "Disability and what not", but a majority of people on it are just lazy and abusing the system, if you take away that safety net they would go look for jobs in a damn hurry.

 

[tjvh]

What you've described here is known as a positive feedback loop in science and engineering. However, given that only a small percentage of our economy revolves around minimum wage, the effects on price would be minimal.

OK. I'll try asking you. What should minimum wage be?

Mike

It's been almost 30 years since I made minimum wage so I have only a vague idea. I suspect it would take about $10/hr to keep a human in anything above squalor.

And if you polled those on minimum wage as to whether they currently owned a big screen TV, and a video gaming system what do you think the answer would be. Why do people always want other people to subsidize those who have no ambition to succeed? Not my problem, and stay out of my wallet.