How do we stop "the poor" from being so problematic?

[Aries]

Don't be a single mother in an expensive area then.

Don't be a single mother, but don't go to a planned parenthood. Don't have money for college? Oh well. Can't get an education? --> minimum wage job. Can't afford life? Work two minimum wage jobs. Wanna go to school to get a better job? Oh don't have time because working two jobs to live...


You people don't see how affordable education and a living wage is vital in creating contributing members of society?
That's how you make the poor less "problematic."

 

[Aries]

Some people have money, some people have family, some people have support networks. Some people dont have any of that. They aren't handed anything, they are starting from scratch.

 

[KeiserC]

Is it that high? I thought it was only 1%. Whatever. I'm not even sure where these folks are at, NO ONE in Alaska makes min wage, nor have they for as long as I can remember. Hell my first job at a shooting range paid $2 over fed min, and my second with Napa Auto Parts, paid $5 over. I've never even met anyone that worked min wage, and I know a lot of liberals too...

Whatever, it's all writ up to "choice you make" regardless of if you're poor or rich. Ya know my son is struggling like a bitch, working two shit jobs right now, but he refuses to come home, refuses to go to college. I want to slap him for being an idiot frankly, but he's 23 so there's not much I can do but whine. He wants things; house, two cars, etc. Stubborn little shit won't even let me pay his rent cause he's trying to impress me with how responsible he is or some bullshit... If the twit were responsible he'd have stayed home and gone to college, but that's a different matter. Like I said, choices you make...

Give them first dibs on well paying jobs working on 'Da Wall' set them up in temporary barrack type housing on the job sites with stipends for the day to day expenses and a IRA / lump sum of some sort at the end of their stint... A conscripted sort of deal... US be good at those...

 

[Aries]

With growing GOP restrictions it is becoming

Is it that high? I thought it was only 1%. Whatever. I'm not even sure where these folks are at, NO ONE in Alaska makes min wage, nor have they for as long as I can remember. Hell my first job at a shooting range paid $2 over fed min, and my second with Napa Auto Parts, paid $5 over. I've never even met anyone that worked min wage, and I know a lot of liberals too...

Whatever, it's all writ up to "choice you make" regardless of if you're poor or rich. Ya know my son is struggling like a bitch, working two shit jobs right now, but he refuses to come home, refuses to go to college. I want to slap him for being an idiot frankly, but he's 23 so there's not much I can do but whine. He wants things; house, two cars, etc. Stubborn little shit won't even let me pay his rent cause he's trying to impress me with how responsible he is or some bullshit... If the twit were responsible he'd have stayed home and gone to college, but that's a different matter. Like I said, choices you make...

Give them first dibs on well paying jobs working on 'Da Wall' set them up in temporary barrack type housing on the job sites with stipends for the day to day expenses and a IRA / lump sum of some sort at the end of their stint...

Bullshit. As if a temporary job on the great wall of mexico would have any long term effects on the workforce. That's ridiculous.

 

[KeiserC]

With growing GOP restrictions it is becoming

Is it that high? I thought it was only 1%. Whatever. I'm not even sure where these folks are at, NO ONE in Alaska makes min wage, nor have they for as long as I can remember. Hell my first job at a shooting range paid $2 over fed min, and my second with Napa Auto Parts, paid $5 over. I've never even met anyone that worked min wage, and I know a lot of liberals too...

Whatever, it's all writ up to "choice you make" regardless of if you're poor or rich. Ya know my son is struggling like a bitch, working two shit jobs right now, but he refuses to come home, refuses to go to college. I want to slap him for being an idiot frankly, but he's 23 so there's not much I can do but whine. He wants things; house, two cars, etc. Stubborn little shit won't even let me pay his rent cause he's trying to impress me with how responsible he is or some bullshit... If the twit were responsible he'd have stayed home and gone to college, but that's a different matter. Like I said, choices you make...

Give them first dibs on well paying jobs working on 'Da Wall' set them up in temporary barrack type housing on the job sites with stipends for the day to day expenses and a IRA / lump sum of some sort at the end of their stint...

Bullshit. As if a temporary job on the great wall of mexico would have any long term effects on the workforce. That's ridiculous.

O that's right we should guarantee 'cradle to grave' financial and every other sort of security for everyone... twas what made America great in the first place in our rebelling against tyranny in England....

Grow a pair and be a GD American... the only certainties you should expect (as an American) in this life are death, taxes, and the 'pursuit' of happiness.....

 

[EverCurious]

Hmmm you've mistaken me for a Republican I take it Aries... You're partisan glasses are fogged. I'm a bisexual who's been fighting for SSM in Alaska (still 70% Christian) for nearly my entire life. I'm also pro choice and agnostic so try again.


Quite bluntly, then frankly you shouldn't have them. If you can't afford your child(ren), then do the right thing and put them up for adoption - give them a chance at the life you are unable, or unwilling, to provide them.

If you are just starting out, have no family, and want an education so you can "contribute," try the military, probably the only form of "welfare" I'm keen on is giving those that serve the nation free education, health care, and retirement.



As for the wall idea KeiserC, my husband had suggested that some of the illegals could work on the wall to get citizenship; I'd narrow that down to the dreamer parents personally. The rest of em can wait in line like the rest of the world has to.

Unfortunately, no, that's not going to solve poverty. Though perhaps I could see a series of gov contract type jobs given to the poor - a forward of education to do said job that they have to pay back via the work. Of course, folks would likely abuse it so there'd have to be some kind of monitoring and such details to limit that.

 

[KeiserC]

Hmmm you've mistaken me for a Republican I take it Aries... You're partisan glasses are fogged. I'm a bisexual who's been fighting for SSM in Alaska (still 70% Christian) for nearly my entire life. I'm also pro choice and agnostic so try again.


Quite bluntly, then frankly you shouldn't have them. If you can't afford your child(ren), then do the right thing and put them up for adoption - give them a chance at the life you are unable, or unwilling, to provide them.

If you are just starting out, have no family, and want an education so you can "contribute," try the military, probably the only form of "welfare" I'm keen on is giving those that serve the nation free education, health care, and retirement.



As for the wall idea KeiserC, my husband had suggested that some of the illegals could work on the wall to get citizenship; I'd narrow that down to the dreamer parents personally. The rest of em can wait in line like the rest of the world has to.

Unfortunately, no, that's not going to solve poverty. Though perhaps I could see a series of gov contract type jobs given to the poor - a forward of education to do said job that they have to pay back via the work. Of course, folks would likely abuse it so there'd have to be some kind of monitoring and such details to limit that.

Well gee... 70% Christian... a travesty... best get cracking on 'redoctrination' as that BS Christianity is such a scourge on our Nation....

Here's a thought... as a "minority" why not try to be accommodating to the "majority" and more than likely the "majority" will beneficently put up with your "fringe" ideology and lifestyle

 

[EverCurious]

Naw, they're alright. I'm not keen on them poking around in my bedroom, and frankly most of them are fine with staying out of it, but ya know power is a funny thing. The leaders are the problem, true of all political religious moves. As a person who grew up being called a "demon who'd rot in hell" it's actually not as bad as the media portrays (at least not up here) Sure there's a few loud shrill ones, but most of them are like "not my bag" then the conversation moves on. I write 90% of the bullshit off to politician's trying to buy votes rather than it being the intentions/opinions of the majority.

 

[Mac1958]

What can and or will be done about it politically?
In keeping with current board rhetoric let's not be scared to get real honest here.
Our poor are our worst parents...they create more of their same.
Our poor suck the most government tit.
Our poor commits the most crime.
Our poor does the most drugs.
Our poor drinks and smokes the most.
Our poor have the most children they can't afford.
Our poor litters and vandalizes the most.
Our poor drives uninsured.
Our poor commits the most animal cruelty.
I could go on and on...and no Libby's, let's not deflect and divert to Wall Street criminals, big corporations..blah, blah, blah...Let's get real, let's get serious about our taxpayer draining bottom feeders....Whatta ya say?

The Right says that we tend to coddle the poor too much, addicting them to inter-generational dependence on government, constantly lowering standards & expectations, making excuses for them, essentially enabling them and exacerbating their behaviors.

The Left says that a national this prosperous simply can't let those who have failed in life fall through the cracks, that just telling them to do better simply isn't enough, that many people simply don't have the capacity to improve their lives, that we're better than this.

Guess what? They're both right. The problem here is that the Left and the Right are currently not on speaking terms, ignoring each other like two petulant children on the playground who had a fight over the last ice cream sundae at lunch, and the problem continues.
.

 

[koshergrl]

My companys lowest paid worker is probably making under 20k a year full time. Hard to live off that

Back it can be done. And if they don't like it - they are free to go work somewhere else.

And not for nothing - but in my last position my salary increased $17,000 as my performance dictated increases and promotions. So that person may be at $20,000 today, but they don't have to be there tomorrow (and won't be if they perform).

It can barely be done, certainly not easy for lets say, a single mother. I don't think any American working 40 hours a week should be below the line of poverty.

tough shit. The stupid belief that small business owners, who DO work more than forty a week, should pay their unskilled workers more than they earn themselves is the height of fiscal stupidity. You morons who want others to subsidize the stupidity of others should finance that shit yourselves. Adopt an inner city single mom with five kids who can't read or speak like a human and who has never stayed at any job for more than two weeks, and giver her your paycheck when she starts working as a babysitter for other welfare moms so they can attend their required welfare jobs classes. I hope you make a lot of money, because she needs quite a bit, with five kids, to earn above the poverty level.

what stupid douches progressives are.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What can and or will be done about it politically?
In keeping with current board rhetoric let's not be scared to get real honest here.
Our poor are our worst parents...they create more of their same.
Our poor suck the most government tit.
Our poor commits the most crime.
Our poor does the most drugs.
Our poor drinks and smokes the most.
Our poor have the most children they can't afford.
Our poor litters and vandalizes the most.
Our poor drives uninsured.
Our poor commits the most animal cruelty.
I could go on and on...and no Libby's, let's not deflect and divert to Wall Street criminals, big corporations..blah, blah, blah...Let's get real, let's get serious about our taxpayer draining bottom feeders....Whatta ya say?

The Right says that we tend to coddle the poor too much, addicting them to inter-generational dependence on government, constantly lowering standards & expectations, making excuses for them, essentially enabling them and exacerbating their behaviors.

The Left says that a national this prosperous simply can't let those who have failed in life fall through the cracks, that just telling them to do better simply isn't enough, that many people simply don't have the capacity to improve their lives, that we're better than this.

Guess what? They're both right. The problem here is that the Left and the Right are currently not on speaking terms, ignoring each other like two petulant children on the playground who had a fight over the last ice cream sundae at lunch, and the problem continues.
.

Not quite correct but you are on to something. It's actually all about perception.

When somebody from the left speaks about our poor, their image is a hot kitchen with a mother over a pot of stew, adding more water to make it stretch a little more. Dad is sitting by the kitchen table in his dirty white tee shirt half shaven because he worked yet another 12 hour day and plain too tired to dress himself up for dinner.

There are two or three children tending to Dad trying to make small talk while playing with their one toy. Their cloths are dirty as are their faces, but soap is expensive and hard to come by for this family. There is a light fixture hanging from wires on the ceiling over the kitchen table with a 25 watt light bulb as flies buzz around it.

On the right, we picture a family of very overweight people. It's mom and her four kids. The reason they are so fat is because they eat better than most working families, and mom is considering one more child since she doesn't support them anyway.

They are in their HUD house bought or rented by the agency. It's in the suburbs so everything needed is conveniently located. The kids are in the living room fighting over what channel to watch on their big screen hooked up to a satellite with 300 channels. As mom is trying to talk on her Obama phone, one of their three dogs starts to bark setting off the other two.

The mother hangs up the Obama phone to quiet the dogs down. After all, it's 1:00 am and they don't want to wake the neighbors up because the neighbors have to work in the morning, and they will call the cops as they've done so many times in the past. But maybe it's time to go to bed anyway. The new SNAP's card came in the mail and loaded with hundreds of dollars of goodies. It takes some rest to load all those grocery bags into their SUV.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Don't be a single mother in an expensive area then.

Don't be a single mother, but don't go to a planned parenthood. Don't have money for college? Oh well. Can't get an education? --> minimum wage job. Can't afford life? Work two minimum wage jobs. Wanna go to school to get a better job? Oh don't have time because working two jobs to live...


You people don't see how affordable education and a living wage is vital in creating contributing members of society?
That's how you make the poor less "problematic."

Don't be a single mother but don't go to Planned Parenthood? Why not? You can go to PP all you like, you should just have to pay for it. You don't need much money for birth control.

Don't have any money for college? Then take a government loan out for the classes, and you can attend college while working part-time and on weekends to help pay for classes you don't borrow money for. Some have even worked full-time one year, and took classes the next, and kept going back and forth on that schedule. It takes more time that way, but it's been done.

 

[EverCurious]

^ The last has not only been done, it's done regularly by business professionals. My mother was /constantly/ taking classes while working full time. She has a huge list of degrees and certifications from it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The answer to the question asked of me is "However many jobs they need to live the lifestyle they've chosen to have." If one wishes to work only 35-40 hours a week at minimum wage, then concessions must be made, like cellphones and cable for instance, or if you're very stupid and had kids whilst working McDonald's, perhaps harsher cuts, like cars and having a 2bdrm apartment.


I've no sympathy and nothing ya'll say is going to give me any. While I do have money in the bank, my family and I live very well off of about $36k a year and it's not like where I live in Alaska is 'cheap' either; we have one of the higher costs of living in the nation.

It's not hard for a family to come up with $36k a year, even /if/ one has made stupid ass decisions in ones life.

Poverty in the US is a mixture of laziness and irresponsibility; two things that don't go well for creating a future for yourself. It's up to the individual to get over both those hurdles--not the taxpayer.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

^ The last has not only been done, it's done regularly by business professionals. My mother was /constantly/ taking classes while working full time. She has a huge list of degrees and certifications from it.

Oh sure, lots of people do it that way.

My sister had a job at a very well known hospital, but they eventually wanted her to get a degree in her field of work. She was married with two children and it was a struggle to work and take care of the kids. But she had no choice. It was go to college part-time or lose her job down the road.

People who are in serious relationships do the same, except they both live off of one paycheck. One works while the other attends school. He or she will work 12 hour days on the weekends to help out a bit. They don't have children to avoid that huge expense. After the one graduates, the other starts to attend college while the college graduate works.

People on the left would be amazed what you can accomplish without government if they only tried.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It was made necessary by failed republican policies. The huge tax breaks corporations see under every GOP president is corporate welfare.

Welfare is not keeping more of your own money that you made.

 

[EverCurious]

I agree to that. I mean there's some outlyer cases of illness and what not, but the vast majority are what my husband and I refer to as "car poor" or "house poor" those idiots who rush into "adult" life before they are actually ready to do so. It wouldn't be so bad if the idiots didn't have a chip of entitlement on their shoulders. This country doesn't exist to ensure the American dream...

America is like one of those chose your own adventure books; you're free to make whatever choices you want, but there's not a happy ending at every choice one makes... If you tattoo your face and stick a bunch of safety pins through your eyebrows then you're seriously limiting your hire-ability at good paying jobs. Likewise if you commit crimes and can't pass the most basic of background tests, or even if you just show up late all the time. Too many folks expect raises when they're not taking their job seriously.

I mean shit my son wasn't even out of high school yet when he became the manager at McDonald's making $18 an hour. I'm sorry I know my kid wasn't all that responsible (he's the one that did too much too fast I mentioned earlier) and yet even so he was able to pull his act together. Now he's 23 and making $22/h as an airline fueler, his employee saw he was a manager and decided he was worth putting the money in to training, and up the ladder he went. My other son, took an unpaid apprenticeship as an RV mechanic while working as a server at Denny's, a year later he's making $25/h and is currently going to school for master RVIA and ASE certification so he can get another $7/h.

I honestly just don't understand what is so dysfunctional in these people that they can't handle something so simple and basic as moving up in the world of employment...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Do tell why all these 13M are poor. Do they all suffer from handicaps and mental illnesses that prevent them from working? Do they all have families who apparently shit on them and threw them out for the trouble?

Nay, far more likely they've made stupid decisions, similar to my son's, in trying to live a lifestyle that their paycheck cannot provide, or worse, those who turned to crime rather than commit themselves to a "proper" life.

I feel no obligation to support those who make stupid decisions in their life, especially when I believe, and am regularly told, that I've no right to tell someone how to live. To clarify, I've no problem with them doing as they wish, right up until they start reaching in my wallet to pay for their choices.

If the fools need more money, then they best get off their asses and earn it. There is nothing preventing them from finding a second job so they can have that unlimited cell phone plan, there is nothing preventing them from taking on a 2h a day paper route to pay for whatever it is they feel is holding them back from success...

Also something that is well ignored is the drug problem we face in this country. At the end of the so-called recession, my employer couldn't find anybody to take a job with our company. He found people that were willing to do it, but they couldn't pass a drug test.

My father is a retired bricklayer. His union sends them news letters all the time keeping them updated on the profession.

They too were looking for workers they couldn't find. They were asking their retirees to find people for them willing to start a new career in construction. Mind you, bricklaying is very hard work, but it also pays very well.

Like my employer, they found people that were willing to take the job, but none that could pass a drug test.

I believe one of the main reasons employers can't find workers is because of the drugs in this country. Smoking pot is more important than working these days.

 

[EverCurious]

Yea but we could pass that down the line to the government too, they're the ones who put in the "Drug Free" safety protocols that employers have to deal with, and which workers comp adjusters use to lay out costs to employer's - the MoD system tags employer's with increase coverage costs for not having a "drug free" component to their written safety plan.

Even so, I do think there's a problem with drugs - but then again not, legalize and let these folks overdose if that's what they chose to do with their lives... I'm not against hiring some folks to clean the dead bodies of addicts off the streets though.

 

[koshergrl]

m

Do tell why all these 13M are poor. Do they all suffer from handicaps and mental illnesses that prevent them from working? Do they all have families who apparently shit on them and threw them out for the trouble?

Nay, far more likely they've made stupid decisions, similar to my son's, in trying to live a lifestyle that their paycheck cannot provide, or worse, those who turned to crime rather than commit themselves to a "proper" life.

I feel no obligation to support those who make stupid decisions in their life, especially when I believe, and am regularly told, that I've no right to tell someone how to live. To clarify, I've no problem with them doing as they wish, right up until they start reaching in my wallet to pay for their choices.

If the fools need more money, then they best get off their asses and earn it. There is nothing preventing them from finding a second job so they can have that unlimited cell phone plan, there is nothing preventing them from taking on a 2h a day paper route to pay for whatever it is they feel is holding them back from success...

The >13M are full-time workers. They are paid so little that they qualify as poor.

According to you, how many hours per week are full-time workers to work? 40, 80, 120?

According to you, how many jobs are workers to have? 2, 3, 4?

As of this week I have 790 employees. The lowest paid employees are paid $48,950.00 per year, plus 100% company paid benefits. Every employer should be doing his/her part.

My companys lowest paid worker is probably making under 20k a year full time. Hard to live off that

one person can live on that. This is why we used to teach people to work hard and don't get married till you are able to support a family. Also don't have sex or children, until you're married..