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Seeking to advance specific religious dogma absent a secular intent where government is excessively entangled in the promotion of that religion would be an Establishment Clause violation in any government entity, not just schools.I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.
I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.
In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post
As for the Constitutionality of a chaplain opening legislative sessions with a prayer, the Supreme Court created a ‘set aside’ or ‘carve out’ of the First Amendment where such a practice does not violate the Establishment Clause because it’s predicated on the long-standing historical tradition of legislative chaplains (see Marsh v. Chambers (1983)).
Okay. Since school Christmas celebrations have become entirely secular in the past decades with all religious symbolism stripped out, I don't see where a 4 year olds' Christmas party involving a tree and Santa is "advancing specific religious dogma" in any way, shape or form.Seeking to advance specific religious dogma absent a secular intent where government is excessively entangled in the promotion of that religion would be an Establishment Clause violation in any government entity, not just schools.I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.
I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.
In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post
As for the Constitutionality of a chaplain opening legislative sessions with a prayer, the Supreme Court created a ‘set aside’ or ‘carve out’ of the First Amendment where such a practice does not violate the Establishment Clause because it’s predicated on the long-standing historical tradition of legislative chaplains (see Marsh v. Chambers (1983)).
I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.
I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.
In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post
Well if congress actually functioned as it should it would have similar stresses. Congress use to vote to go to war, people with a conscience would find it stress full to send thousands to war and would have also found it stresfull to make decisions for 350 million people. While I am not a very religous person I have seen believers draw strength from their faith. Not bull shit.calmer decisions??? similar stresses??!! bullshit..it's a waste of money--plain and simple-- and no denying thatChaplains are typicaly schooled in performing ceremonies of several faiths. I would asume that it would work simimilar to chaplains in the military any way. I will admit this to be a guess for congressional chaplins, I have never met one. While I was in the military it was my experience that the chaplins did help with the moral of the troops and troops of several faiths. I can see where there would be times that congress would deal with similar feeling stresses as the military. If this helps them make calmer decisions it may be money well spent. When is the last time you saw a chaplin driving a rolls royce? How much can the person be making?I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.
I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.
In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post
the military is MUCH different than congress!!!
read post # 2 here with $$$$ wasted on chaplains:
How is it Congress can have a chaplain....
1. most of the military make much less $$$ than congress/House
How Much Do Federal Politicians and Cabinet Members Get Paid?
2.military very young mostly
3. we didn't have chaplains at the shooting range/in our barracks/etc saying prayers
4. the taxpayers shouldn't be paying for chaplains in congress--they get enough free stuff--including helathcare
4. the military has a lot on base housing--when I was in a lot didn't have cars--especially overseas/on ship []/etc....so there is a need to have chaplains on base whereas the politicians do not live on bases
5. the politicians do not go to war/combat/etc!!!!! where as that's what the military does--and will ''need'' chaplains there
etc etc
"The intolerance of religion has gone way too far." Maybe it has; I don't know. I'm not religious and I have no dog in that fight.I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.
I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.
In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post
I think they worship the US Treasury Building.
At any rate it irritates me to no end that an insignificant percentage of intolerant soviet cock suckers can get things like Christmas banned from public schools. When I was growing up we didn't have the school prayers anymore, but the whole school was decorated for Christmas, complete with baby Jesus and the manger scene.
We also never heard of someone coming to school and shooting anyone, and in the high schools at that point in time even in the People's Soviet Republic of New Yuck kids brought .22 rifles to school, locked them up in their lockers, and practiced for the shooting team in the indoor range in the school basement.
The intolerance of religion has gone way too far. Lately the holidays don't have the same feeling they did when I was a kid and it makes me sad that my kids don't get to share that experience. It's just a day off school for them.
That's why I loathe leftists. They deliberately ruin everything good, embrace and exalt everything perverse.
.
"The intolerance of religion has gone way too far." Maybe it has; I don't know. I'm not religious and I have no dog in that fight.
Lately the holidays don't have the same feeling they did when I was a kid and it makes me sad that my kids don't get to share that experience. It's just a day off school for them.
That's more about you than the kids, I think, Pete. Kids love the magic of Christmas (and the gifts) as much as they ever have. School is certainly not the place where anyone learns about the joy and excitement of Christmas; it just spills over there.
On Parts Unknown, Bordain did a Christmas show in the Phillippines. They are heavy into it. You should love it. And I'm guessing what is missing for your wife is her family. Merry Christmas early, Pete."The intolerance of religion has gone way too far." Maybe it has; I don't know. I'm not religious and I have no dog in that fight.
Lately the holidays don't have the same feeling they did when I was a kid and it makes me sad that my kids don't get to share that experience. It's just a day off school for them.
That's more about you than the kids, I think, Pete. Kids love the magic of Christmas (and the gifts) as much as they ever have. School is certainly not the place where anyone learns about the joy and excitement of Christmas; it just spills over there.
I'm not religious either, at least in the sense that we don't go to church or sit around reading the bible all the time.
I am certain God exists, I just think people have fucked up religion and corrupted it. I do "pray" a lot in my own way. I don't throw myself on the floor and roll around babbling though.
Maybe you're right about the feeling of Christmas, but even my wife commented on it. In the Philippines it's still there for her, but when she got here there was something missing. Hopefully next year we can go visit her family for the holiday and I can see for myself.
.
On Parts Unknown, Bordain did a Christmas show in the Phillippines. They are heavy into it. You should love it. And I'm guessing what is missing for your wife is her family. Merry Christmas early, Pete.
Being on the coast, half the time we haven't got snow on Christmas, either, and I'm in Maine. Usually before the Christmas break is over, though, we do. Last couple years we had a storm on Christmas day and screwed up everyone trying to cook their turkeys.On Parts Unknown, Bordain did a Christmas show in the Phillippines. They are heavy into it. You should love it. And I'm guessing what is missing for your wife is her family. Merry Christmas early, Pete.
Well...
I did grow up in New Yuck, maybe it's cause there's no snow in this part of TX.
I can live without it.
.
no--it's just not about stress---it's not the same as the military--not even closeWell if congress actually functioned as it should it would have similar stresses. Congress use to vote to go to war, people with a conscience would find it stress full to send thousands to war and would have also found it stresfull to make decisions for 350 million people. While I am not a very religous person I have seen believers draw strength from their faith. Not bull shit.calmer decisions??? similar stresses??!! bullshit..it's a waste of money--plain and simple-- and no denying thatChaplains are typicaly schooled in performing ceremonies of several faiths. I would asume that it would work simimilar to chaplains in the military any way. I will admit this to be a guess for congressional chaplins, I have never met one. While I was in the military it was my experience that the chaplins did help with the moral of the troops and troops of several faiths. I can see where there would be times that congress would deal with similar feeling stresses as the military. If this helps them make calmer decisions it may be money well spent. When is the last time you saw a chaplin driving a rolls royce? How much can the person be making?I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.
I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.
In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post
the military is MUCH different than congress!!!
read post # 2 here with $$$$ wasted on chaplains:
How is it Congress can have a chaplain....
1. most of the military make much less $$$ than congress/House
How Much Do Federal Politicians and Cabinet Members Get Paid?
2.military very young mostly
3. we didn't have chaplains at the shooting range/in our barracks/etc saying prayers
4. the taxpayers shouldn't be paying for chaplains in congress--they get enough free stuff--including helathcare
4. the military has a lot on base housing--when I was in a lot didn't have cars--especially overseas/on ship [
5. the politicians do not go to war/combat/etc!!!!! where as that's what the military does--and will ''need'' chaplains there
etc etc
freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM it
~S~
What religion are you referring to?
If Congress can have a chaplain, those kids could have Christmas. Sound fair to you?freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM it
~S~
But it should mean you don't have to pay for it.
People pay for stuff all the time that they don’t want but are considered rights for others. Come on, your side wrote the book on that. Time to drink your own medicine.
Way back when...schools had zero Federal funding. They were funded by the state and local communities, so the taxpayers had more say. Also, there were no Teacher's Unions.
freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM it
~S~
But it should mean you don't have to pay for it.
People pay for stuff all the time that they don’t want but are considered rights for others. Come on, your side wrote the book on that. Time to drink your own medicine.
freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM it
~S~
But it should mean you don't have to pay for it.
People pay for stuff all the time that they don’t want but are considered rights for others. Come on, your side wrote the book on that. Time to drink your own medicine.
Lets talk about the wall.
Let’s. And while your at it, let’s talk about paying for other people’s abortions. Let’s also talk about forcing religious organizations to pay for and provide abortions when they don’t want to.
No you don't. Take your abortion rant elsewhere, please.But it should mean you don't have to pay for it.
People pay for stuff all the time that they don’t want but are considered rights for others. Come on, your side wrote the book on that. Time to drink your own medicine.
Lets talk about the wall.
Let’s. And while your at it, let’s talk about paying for other people’s abortions. Let’s also talk about forcing religious organizations to pay for and provide abortions when they don’t want to.
It’s a rant about paying for things that people don’t want to pay for. Are you saying that taxpayer funded abortions are without taxpayers that don’t want to pay for them?
If you did away the House Chaplin due to constitutional violation of church and state, you would have to do away with Chaplin's in the armed forces and the VA. And that would be a bit much, to ask people to fight and die for their country without the availability spiritual guidance.I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.
I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.
In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post
