So David expected a messiah like him, right?
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How is Jesus the Messiah?
- Thread starter TNHarley
- Start date
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
I am talking about how a lot of Christians view Jesus as the Jewish messiahExcellent post. However I think we both know I mean the "king messiah"
Keep in mind, kingship here on earth was something Jesus rejected before he started his ministry. Also, another king messiah wasn't prophesied until after David. Moses did not prophecy or speak of David or a king after David. But Jesus said it was he Moses referenced. Jesus was never meant to preside over an earthly kingdom. Jews believe such a king will come from their line. No reason why he shouldn't, but it has nothing to do with Jesus or his mission.
Look at it this way: America needed both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln--not one or the other. The Gentiles needed Jesus. Doesn't mean a strong Jewish leader isn't also in the world's future.
Why do they believe that
Someone that cures blindness, touches the lame and they walk, cures diseases, and raises the dead, gets people's attention. Coming back from the dead was the proof they needed and got. There is one thing that separates us from our Father. Sin. And one thing that removes our sin. The blood of Christ.
Last edited:
So David expected a messiah like him, right?The Lord made several promises to David (through the prophet Nathan). Some of these promises include: David’s name would be made great, Israel would have a permanent home, the Messiah would come from David’s seed, and that his throne and kingdom would eventually be established forever.So the Jews don't believe that the Messiah will be like King David?you are beyond confused-----you are hopeless.. I am no scholar-----did not even attend "Hebrew school"
as a child. In fact I did attend a few dozen sessions of "sunday school" with a protestant neighbor----but I will
do the best I can FOR YOU. Long ago----the man called JACOB---who was the grandson of ABRAHAM
Ithe guy from Mesopotamia who took a walk and landed in Beersheba, via ISAAC---the kid who survived
the SACRIFICE incident, also took a walk and ended up in a place near Jerusalem. He had a dream
involving a ladder -----he climbed the ladder ended up in "HEAVEN"-----then the angel Gabriel came
along and knocked him off the ladder during a little altercation. Jacob landed, injured his leg and
got his name changed to ISRAEL. Israel had 12 sons. Taking a cue from his grandfather, Abraham----
he CHOSE his heir. It was not REUBEN his first born-----it was JUDAH---another kid. JUDAH was
designated as head of the ROYAL LINE--------fast forward a few centuries------DAVID IS BORN IN
BETHLEHEM-------he becomes the King of the descendants of Israel (Jacob) David is, of course,
descended from JUDAH. Got it now? BTW---Bethlehem is in the land designated as the permanent
property of the TRIBE OF JUDAH.........that's why Jesus had to be born there when the people who wrote
the New Testament---wrote it. Moses was descended from LEVI-------a person who is LEVI is not the
King------it's gotta be a JUDAH person. Moses descendants are Levites. Aahron is also a LEVITE----
but very special ------his descendants are PRIESTS (cohanim). Neither Levites nor Cohanim get
to be king. The fact that heirs were chosen is very important-----it is a BREAK from Babylon. The
operative word in all of the book of "Genesis" is CHOOSE. Seems logical to me that eventually---
someone unrelated COULD BE CHOSEN (not muhummad)
both of the tribe of JUDAH-------most people believe that King David had red hair!!!!!!.
I doubt that anyone wants "THE MESSIAH" to sling pebbles Play the harp? -----
the instrument King David played was called KINOR----which actually means a stringed
instrument. Maybe the messiah will play the violin like Isaac Stern
Right?
sorta-----Nathan ALSO said -----"Davey----you're screwed......your children will turn against you
and your life will be miserable because DID "IT" to Bathsheba" <<<<< that prophecy panned
out
no-----the prophecy of ISAIAH (the one that Christians misinterpret) came about long
after David Died. I do not recall Nathan talking about a MESSIAH (you got a citation?)
Nathan just reiterated what JACOB (AKA ISRAEL) did-----establish the line of JUDAH as the
"royal line". In the government determined in those days (ie the era of the prophets) ---the
government was determined ----as a sorta monarchy-------SEPARATE from the TEMPLE people----
the priests (cohanim) and levites. The Temple people did not own land. The messiah entity----
in PROPHECY----seems to function as a sorta KING but still does not run the Temple
I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David.So David expected a messiah like him, right?The Lord made several promises to David (through the prophet Nathan). Some of these promises include: David’s name would be made great, Israel would have a permanent home, the Messiah would come from David’s seed, and that his throne and kingdom would eventually be established forever.So the Jews don't believe that the Messiah will be like King David?
both of the tribe of JUDAH-------most people believe that King David had red hair!!!!!!.
I doubt that anyone wants "THE MESSIAH" to sling pebbles Play the harp? -----
the instrument King David played was called KINOR----which actually means a stringed
instrument. Maybe the messiah will play the violin like Isaac Stern
Right?
sorta-----Nathan ALSO said -----"Davey----you're screwed......your children will turn against you
and your life will be miserable because DID "IT" to Bathsheba" <<<<< that prophecy panned
out
no-----the prophecy of ISAIAH (the one that Christians misinterpret) came about long
after David Died. I do not recall Nathan talking about a MESSIAH (you got a citation?)
Nathan just reiterated what JACOB (AKA ISRAEL) did-----establish the line of JUDAH as the
"royal line". In the government determined in those days (ie the era of the prophets) ---the
government was determined ----as a sorta monarchy-------SEPARATE from the TEMPLE people----
the priests (cohanim) and levites. The Temple people did not own land. The messiah entity----
in PROPHECY----seems to function as a sorta KING but still does not run the Temple
Right?
Why would I discuss this with you?When ever I listen for him.I don't have to read anything. I have a personal relationship with my Creator.
You don't have to read anything? lol....
When the living God appears to someone there is nothing subtle about his appearance and nothing vague about the message he gives them to share with people, according to scripture.. You probably should have read that....
When in your entire life has God ever appeared to you in any fashion? Were any prophetic dreams, visions, revelations, ever delivered to you personally?
Since you are such buddies, what did the living God ever specifically tell you to tell people?
Have you ever done anything to verify whether what you hear when you listen for God isn't a figment of your unrestrained imagination especially since scripture clearly teaches that God never was and never will become a human being?
When you listen for God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, whatever, and you hear something in response what do you hear?
The world is a mess, even on the brink. If you and God are best buddies and had some inside info that might help, why wouldn't you?
Pop quiz. What is the Blood of Christ and how does one drink it?I am talking about how a lot of Christians view Jesus as the Jewish messiahExcellent post. However I think we both know I mean the "king messiah"
Keep in mind, kingship here on earth was something Jesus rejected before he started his ministry. Also, another king messiah wasn't prophesied until after David. Moses did not prophecy or speak of David or a king after David. But Jesus said it was he Moses referenced. Jesus was never meant to preside over an earthly kingdom. Jews believe such a king will come from their line. No reason why he shouldn't, but it has nothing to do with Jesus or his mission.
Look at it this way: America needed both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln--not one or the other. The Gentiles needed Jesus. Doesn't mean a strong Jewish leader isn't also in the world's future.
Why do they believe that
Someone that cures blindness, touches the lame and they walk, cures diseases, and raises the dead, gets people's attention. Coming back from the dead was the proof they needed and got. There is one thing that separates us from our Father. Sin. And one thing that removes our sin. The blood of Christ.
Because it doesn't work that way.Why would I discuss this with you?When ever I listen for him.I don't have to read anything. I have a personal relationship with my Creator.
You don't have to read anything? lol....
When the living God appears to someone there is nothing subtle about his appearance and nothing vague about the message he gives them to share with people, according to scripture.. You probably should have read that....
When in your entire life has God ever appeared to you in any fashion? Were any prophetic dreams, visions, revelations, ever delivered to you personally?
Since you are such buddies, what did the living God ever specifically tell you to tell people?
Have you ever done anything to verify whether what you hear when you listen for God isn't a figment of your unrestrained imagination especially since scripture clearly teaches that God never was and never will become a human being?
When you listen for God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, whatever, and you hear something in response what do you hear?
The world is a mess, even on the brink. If you and God are best buddies and had some inside info that might help, why wouldn't you?
Besides, I'm pretty sure he has things under control.Why would I discuss this with you?When ever I listen for him.I don't have to read anything. I have a personal relationship with my Creator.
You don't have to read anything? lol....
When the living God appears to someone there is nothing subtle about his appearance and nothing vague about the message he gives them to share with people, according to scripture.. You probably should have read that....
When in your entire life has God ever appeared to you in any fashion? Were any prophetic dreams, visions, revelations, ever delivered to you personally?
Since you are such buddies, what did the living God ever specifically tell you to tell people?
Have you ever done anything to verify whether what you hear when you listen for God isn't a figment of your unrestrained imagination especially since scripture clearly teaches that God never was and never will become a human being?
When you listen for God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, whatever, and you hear something in response what do you hear?
The world is a mess, even on the brink. If you and God are best buddies and had some inside info that might help, why wouldn't you?
For when they became satisfied, they became proud and forgot God.
Then they suffered.
The best thing we could do right now is get to rock bottom as fast as possible so we can start the cycle all over again.
I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David.So David expected a messiah like him, right?The Lord made several promises to David (through the prophet Nathan). Some of these promises include: David’s name would be made great, Israel would have a permanent home, the Messiah would come from David’s seed, and that his throne and kingdom would eventually be established forever.both of the tribe of JUDAH-------most people believe that King David had red hair!!!!!!.
I doubt that anyone wants "THE MESSIAH" to sling pebbles Play the harp? -----
the instrument King David played was called KINOR----which actually means a stringed
instrument. Maybe the messiah will play the violin like Isaac Stern
Right?
sorta-----Nathan ALSO said -----"Davey----you're screwed......your children will turn against you
and your life will be miserable because DID "IT" to Bathsheba" <<<<< that prophecy panned
out
no-----the prophecy of ISAIAH (the one that Christians misinterpret) came about long
after David Died. I do not recall Nathan talking about a MESSIAH (you got a citation?)
Nathan just reiterated what JACOB (AKA ISRAEL) did-----establish the line of JUDAH as the
"royal line". In the government determined in those days (ie the era of the prophets) ---the
government was determined ----as a sorta monarchy-------SEPARATE from the TEMPLE people----
the priests (cohanim) and levites. The Temple people did not own land. The messiah entity----
in PROPHECY----seems to function as a sorta KING but still does not run the Temple
Right?
I do not recall a "messianic" prophesy in the time of King David. David was told that he was such a mess that he could not build the Temple (the first one)
Are you being intentionally obtuse about your people's belief in a messiah because it has never been fulfilled?I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David.So David expected a messiah like him, right?The Lord made several promises to David (through the prophet Nathan). Some of these promises include: David’s name would be made great, Israel would have a permanent home, the Messiah would come from David’s seed, and that his throne and kingdom would eventually be established forever.
Right?
sorta-----Nathan ALSO said -----"Davey----you're screwed......your children will turn against you
and your life will be miserable because DID "IT" to Bathsheba" <<<<< that prophecy panned
out
no-----the prophecy of ISAIAH (the one that Christians misinterpret) came about long
after David Died. I do not recall Nathan talking about a MESSIAH (you got a citation?)
Nathan just reiterated what JACOB (AKA ISRAEL) did-----establish the line of JUDAH as the
"royal line". In the government determined in those days (ie the era of the prophets) ---the
government was determined ----as a sorta monarchy-------SEPARATE from the TEMPLE people----
the priests (cohanim) and levites. The Temple people did not own land. The messiah entity----
in PROPHECY----seems to function as a sorta KING but still does not run the Temple
Right?
I do not recall a "messianic" prophesy in the time of King David. David was told that he was such a mess that he could not build the Temple (the first one)
Michelle420
Diamond Member
Can someone explain this to me?
As far as i can tell, he didnt meet the requirements. Obviously lol..
So how?
You've changed since you got your DNA results.
Are you being intentionally obtuse about your people's belief in a messiah because it has never been fulfilled?I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David.So David expected a messiah like him, right?sorta-----Nathan ALSO said -----"Davey----you're screwed......your children will turn against you
and your life will be miserable because DID "IT" to Bathsheba" <<<<< that prophecy panned
out
no-----the prophecy of ISAIAH (the one that Christians misinterpret) came about long
after David Died. I do not recall Nathan talking about a MESSIAH (you got a citation?)
Nathan just reiterated what JACOB (AKA ISRAEL) did-----establish the line of JUDAH as the
"royal line". In the government determined in those days (ie the era of the prophets) ---the
government was determined ----as a sorta monarchy-------SEPARATE from the TEMPLE people----
the priests (cohanim) and levites. The Temple people did not own land. The messiah entity----
in PROPHECY----seems to function as a sorta KING but still does not run the Temple
Right?
I do not recall a "messianic" prophesy in the time of King David. David was told that he was such a mess that he could not build the Temple (the first one)
no------I am remembering that which I remember about that which you have termed
the TANACH which I have read. I do not remember any comment by the prophet NATHAN
about a "messiah". I asked you if you can cite something by Nathan about a MESSIAH.
By MESSIAH I am referring to the messiah described by later prophets like Isaiah who addressed
the issues of the DIASPORA---occasioned by the destruction of Jerusalem and the destruction of the
first Temple. The "MESSIAH" would usher into the world ----something like world peace and as a person
would be from the Judah royal line. David, himself was not that person but was from the royal line JUDAH
I don't care which prophet per se. I care about the common belief that the messiah would be someone who was like David and would be King like David.Are you being intentionally obtuse about your people's belief in a messiah because it has never been fulfilled?I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David.So David expected a messiah like him, right?
no-----the prophecy of ISAIAH (the one that Christians misinterpret) came about long
after David Died. I do not recall Nathan talking about a MESSIAH (you got a citation?)
Nathan just reiterated what JACOB (AKA ISRAEL) did-----establish the line of JUDAH as the
"royal line". In the government determined in those days (ie the era of the prophets) ---the
government was determined ----as a sorta monarchy-------SEPARATE from the TEMPLE people----
the priests (cohanim) and levites. The Temple people did not own land. The messiah entity----
in PROPHECY----seems to function as a sorta KING but still does not run the Temple
Right?
I do not recall a "messianic" prophesy in the time of King David. David was told that he was such a mess that he could not build the Temple (the first one)
no------I am remembering that which I remember about that which you have termed
the TANACH which I have read. I do not remember any comment by the prophet NATHAN
about a "messiah". I asked you if you can cite something by Nathan about a MESSIAH.
By MESSIAH I am referring to the messiah described by later prophets like Isaiah who addressed
the issues of the DIASPORA---occasioned by the destruction of Jerusalem and the destruction of the
first Temple. The "MESSIAH" would usher into the world ----something like world peace and as a person
would be from the Judah royal line. David, himself was not that person but was from the royal line JUDAH
That hasn't happened, right?
Besides, I'm pretty sure he has things under control.Why would I discuss this with you?When ever I listen for him.You don't have to read anything? lol....
When the living God appears to someone there is nothing subtle about his appearance and nothing vague about the message he gives them to share with people, according to scripture.. You probably should have read that....
When in your entire life has God ever appeared to you in any fashion? Were any prophetic dreams, visions, revelations, ever delivered to you personally?
Since you are such buddies, what did the living God ever specifically tell you to tell people?
Have you ever done anything to verify whether what you hear when you listen for God isn't a figment of your unrestrained imagination especially since scripture clearly teaches that God never was and never will become a human being?
When you listen for God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, whatever, and you hear something in response what do you hear?
The world is a mess, even on the brink. If you and God are best buddies and had some inside info that might help, why wouldn't you?
For when they became satisfied, they became proud and forgot God.
Then they suffered.
The best thing we could do right now is get to rock bottom as fast as possible so we can start the cycle all over again.
You could have just come right out with it and admitted that you never heard a single word, not a peep, from God in your entire life.
Best thing to do is hit rock bottom as fast as possible? Great plan commander!
Pft.
I don't care which prophet per se. I care about the common belief that the messiah would be someone who was like David and would be King like David.Are you being intentionally obtuse about your people's belief in a messiah because it has never been fulfilled?I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David.no-----the prophecy of ISAIAH (the one that Christians misinterpret) came about long
after David Died. I do not recall Nathan talking about a MESSIAH (you got a citation?)
Nathan just reiterated what JACOB (AKA ISRAEL) did-----establish the line of JUDAH as the
"royal line". In the government determined in those days (ie the era of the prophets) ---the
government was determined ----as a sorta monarchy-------SEPARATE from the TEMPLE people----
the priests (cohanim) and levites. The Temple people did not own land. The messiah entity----
in PROPHECY----seems to function as a sorta KING but still does not run the Temple
Right?
I do not recall a "messianic" prophesy in the time of King David. David was told that he was such a mess that he could not build the Temple (the first one)
no------I am remembering that which I remember about that which you have termed
the TANACH which I have read. I do not remember any comment by the prophet NATHAN
about a "messiah". I asked you if you can cite something by Nathan about a MESSIAH.
By MESSIAH I am referring to the messiah described by later prophets like Isaiah who addressed
the issues of the DIASPORA---occasioned by the destruction of Jerusalem and the destruction of the
first Temple. The "MESSIAH" would usher into the world ----something like world peace and as a person
would be from the Judah royal line. David, himself was not that person but was from the royal line JUDAH
That hasn't happened, right?
I have never heard the theory of "LIKE DAVID" that you present-----or "the common belief"-----
prophesy regarding a messiah followed by world peace------to wit "Lo yisah goy el goy cherev,
v' lo yimaladu od milchamah" ------"nation will not lift up sword against nation, and no longer learn
the ways of war" as a kind of end-time thing comes from the lives and times of people like
Jeremiah and Amos and Isaiah which is the TIMES of intense warfare-----from Egypt all the way
thru Persia and Greece trampling directly thru-----the kingdoms of Judah and Israel-----the
tribal land that David had sorta unified into the KINGDOM OF JUDEA with Jerusalem as its
capital-----with a big time Temple on the Hill. LIKE DAVID? (???) not in detail.
Jeremiah, Isaiah and Amos never met David HOWEVER---if I remember correctly----the prophecy of Isaiah describes a government with a king----who is not the "messiah" in the
days when all the world is at peace and DA JOOOOS live in and around jerusalem
I don't care which prophet per se. I care about the common belief that the messiah would be someone who was like David and would be King like David.Are you being intentionally obtuse about your people's belief in a messiah because it has never been fulfilled?I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David.
Right?
I do not recall a "messianic" prophesy in the time of King David. David was told that he was such a mess that he could not build the Temple (the first one)
no------I am remembering that which I remember about that which you have termed
the TANACH which I have read. I do not remember any comment by the prophet NATHAN
about a "messiah". I asked you if you can cite something by Nathan about a MESSIAH.
By MESSIAH I am referring to the messiah described by later prophets like Isaiah who addressed
the issues of the DIASPORA---occasioned by the destruction of Jerusalem and the destruction of the
first Temple. The "MESSIAH" would usher into the world ----something like world peace and as a person
would be from the Judah royal line. David, himself was not that person but was from the royal line JUDAH
That hasn't happened, right?
I have never heard the theory of "LIKE DAVID" that you present-----or "the common belief"-----
prophesy regarding a messiah followed by world peace------to wit "Lo yisah goy el goy cherev,
v' lo yimaladu od milchamah" ------"nation will not lift up sword against nation, and no longer learn
the ways of war" as a kind of end-time thing comes from the lives and times of people like
Jeremiah and Amos and Isaiah which is the TIMES of intense warfare-----from Egypt all the way
thru Persia and Greece trampling directly thru-----the kingdoms of Judah and Israel-----the
tribal land that David had sorta unified into the KINGDOM OF JUDEA with Jerusalem as its
capital-----with a big time Temple on the Hill. LIKE DAVID? (???) not in detail.
Jeremiah, Isaiah and Amos never met David HOWEVER---if I remember correctly----the prophecy of Isaiah describes a government with a king----who is not the "messiah" in the
days when all the world is at peace and DA JOOOOS live in and around jerusalem
Ezekiel 37:22-25, Hosea 3:4-5, Jeremiah 30:8-10, Psalm 2, Ezekiel 34:22-24
Any of this sound familiar?
And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?
And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?
PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?
RodISHI
Platinum Member
- Nov 29, 2008
- 25,786
- 11,297
- 940
It doesn't all happen in an instant for all at the same time or the land would be barren but the more that are awaken the better as that brings in a change.Besides, I'm pretty sure he has things under control.Why would I discuss this with you?When ever I listen for him.
Have you ever done anything to verify whether what you hear when you listen for God isn't a figment of your unrestrained imagination especially since scripture clearly teaches that God never was and never will become a human being?
When you listen for God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, whatever, and you hear something in response what do you hear?
The world is a mess, even on the brink. If you and God are best buddies and had some inside info that might help, why wouldn't you?
For when they became satisfied, they became proud and forgot God.
Then they suffered.
The best thing we could do right now is get to rock bottom as fast as possible so we can start the cycle all over again.
You could have just come right out with it and admitted that you never heard a single word, not a peep, from God in your entire life.
Best thing to do is hit rock bottom as fast as possible? Great plan commander!
Pft.
Legal descendant?And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?
He is a descendant of King David. That's all that is required. The prophecy is fulfilled.
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