How is Jesus the Messiah?

[irosie91]

I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

The messiah described in deuteronomy 18:18 is not a king by any stretch of the imagination. "I will put my words into his mouth and he shall convey all of my commands."

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

The messiah was supposed to be "the seed of David" which is not necessarily about physical descent anymore than when Jesus said that he was the sower of the good seed he was talking about impregnating women....

it is not clear to me why you imagine that a KING cannot also be a "prophet" I do not believe that the
two conditions are mutually exclusive. What is true is that a KING cannot be a LEVITE ---(I think---
don't quote me) Levites are people of the same tribe as is Moses and Aaron. David was of the tribe
of Judah-------the NT provides a lineage for Jesus indicating that HE was of the tribe of Judah and was
even born in the same town ---ie Bethlehem. Historically-----some of the Prophets-----like Jeremiah
(I think----don't quote me) were levites. It is the NT that makes the case for Jesus as KING. ----maybe
that was a mistake on the part of the writers

 

[hobelim]

I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

The messiah described in deuteronomy 18:18 is not a king by any stretch of the imagination. "I will put my words into his mouth and he shall convey all of my commands."

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

The messiah was supposed to be "the seed of David" which is not necessarily about physical descent anymore than when Jesus said that he was the sower of the good seed he was talking about impregnating women....

 

[ding]

I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

David thought so and so did everyone else. Of course they were wrong too.

 

[hobelim]

I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

The messiah described in deuteronomy 18:18 is not a king by any stretch of the imagination. "I will put my words into his mouth and he shall convey all of my commands."

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

The messiah was supposed to be "the seed of David" which is not necessarily about physical descent anymore than when Jesus said that he was the sower of the good seed he was talking about impregnating women....

it is not clear to me why you imagine that a KING cannot also be a "prophet" I do not believe that the
two conditions are mutually exclusive. What is true is that a KING cannot be a LEVITE ---(I think---
don't quote me) Levites are people of the same tribe as is Moses and Aaron. David was of the tribe
of Judah-------the NT provides a lineage for Jesus indicating that HE was of the tribe of Judah and was
even born in the same town ---ie Bethlehem. Historically-----some of the Prophets-----like Jeremiah
(I think----don't quote me) were levites. It is the NT that makes the case for Jesus as KING. ----maybe
that was a mistake on the part of the writers

The gospels make it clear that Jesus did not claim to be a king or aspire to be a king.

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

 

[irosie91]

I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

David thought so and so did everyone else. Of course they were wrong too.

where did david think so? -----got a citation?

 

[ding]

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[irosie91]

I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

The messiah described in deuteronomy 18:18 is not a king by any stretch of the imagination. "I will put my words into his mouth and he shall convey all of my commands."

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

The messiah was supposed to be "the seed of David" which is not necessarily about physical descent anymore than when Jesus said that he was the sower of the good seed he was talking about impregnating women....

it is not clear to me why you imagine that a KING cannot also be a "prophet" I do not believe that the
two conditions are mutually exclusive. What is true is that a KING cannot be a LEVITE ---(I think---
don't quote me) Levites are people of the same tribe as is Moses and Aaron. David was of the tribe
of Judah-------the NT provides a lineage for Jesus indicating that HE was of the tribe of Judah and was
even born in the same town ---ie Bethlehem. Historically-----some of the Prophets-----like Jeremiah
(I think----don't quote me) were levites. It is the NT that makes the case for Jesus as KING. ----maybe
that was a mistake on the part of the writers

The gospels make it clear that Jesus did not claim to be a king or aspire to be a king.

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

ok so? somehow I do not find that interchange all that impressive

 

[hobelim]

Have you ever done anything to verify whether what you hear when you listen for God isn't a figment of your unrestrained imagination especially since scripture clearly teaches that God never was and never will become a human being?

When you listen for God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, whatever, and you hear something in response what do you hear?

Why would I discuss this with you?

The world is a mess, even on the brink. If you and God are best buddies and had some inside info that might help, why wouldn't you?

Besides, I'm pretty sure he has things under control.

For when they became satisfied, they became proud and forgot God.

Then they suffered.

The best thing we could do right now is get to rock bottom as fast as possible so we can start the cycle all over again.

You could have just come right out with it and admitted that you never heard a single word, not a peep, from God in your entire life.


Best thing to do is hit rock bottom as fast as possible? Great plan commander!



Pft.

It doesn't all happen in an instant for all at the same time or the land would be barren but the more that are awaken the better as that brings in a change.

I disagree. Isn't it the expectation that when Jesus emerges from the clouds all eyes will see him? And at the resurrection the transformation of the dead will be in the twinkling of an eye?

 

[hobelim]

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

The messiah described in deuteronomy 18:18 is not a king by any stretch of the imagination. "I will put my words into his mouth and he shall convey all of my commands."

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

The messiah was supposed to be "the seed of David" which is not necessarily about physical descent anymore than when Jesus said that he was the sower of the good seed he was talking about impregnating women....

it is not clear to me why you imagine that a KING cannot also be a "prophet" I do not believe that the
two conditions are mutually exclusive. What is true is that a KING cannot be a LEVITE ---(I think---
don't quote me) Levites are people of the same tribe as is Moses and Aaron. David was of the tribe
of Judah-------the NT provides a lineage for Jesus indicating that HE was of the tribe of Judah and was
even born in the same town ---ie Bethlehem. Historically-----some of the Prophets-----like Jeremiah
(I think----don't quote me) were levites. It is the NT that makes the case for Jesus as KING. ----maybe
that was a mistake on the part of the writers

The gospels make it clear that Jesus did not claim to be a king or aspire to be a king.

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

ok so? somehow I do not find that interchange all that impressive

Read deuteronomy 18:18 and then tell me where you see a king like David?

Doesn't it say he will be a prophet like Moses who ranks above a king??

 

[irosie91]

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

sheeesh where does that ^^^^ come from? in what language was that BS written? If Jesus
were "DELIVERED TO THE JEWS"-----HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED----or executed

 

[RodISHI]

Why would I discuss this with you?

The world is a mess, even on the brink. If you and God are best buddies and had some inside info that might help, why wouldn't you?

Besides, I'm pretty sure he has things under control.

For when they became satisfied, they became proud and forgot God.

Then they suffered.

The best thing we could do right now is get to rock bottom as fast as possible so we can start the cycle all over again.

You could have just come right out with it and admitted that you never heard a single word, not a peep, from God in your entire life.


Best thing to do is hit rock bottom as fast as possible? Great plan commander!



Pft.

It doesn't all happen in an instant for all at the same time or the land would be barren but the more that are awaken the better as that brings in a change.

I disagree. Isn't it the expectation that when Jesus emerges from the clouds all eyes will see him? And at the resurrection the transformation of the dead will be in the twinkling of an eye?

You are free to believe that if you so desire. Clouds is something you may wanna look up to see what that is referencing. or you can believe me when I say it is talking about a fine mist of pebbles (little stones that are heavenly hosts) that keep us in the proper groove.

 

[irosie91]

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

The messiah described in deuteronomy 18:18 is not a king by any stretch of the imagination. "I will put my words into his mouth and he shall convey all of my commands."

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

The messiah was supposed to be "the seed of David" which is not necessarily about physical descent anymore than when Jesus said that he was the sower of the good seed he was talking about impregnating women....

it is not clear to me why you imagine that a KING cannot also be a "prophet" I do not believe that the
two conditions are mutually exclusive. What is true is that a KING cannot be a LEVITE ---(I think---
don't quote me) Levites are people of the same tribe as is Moses and Aaron. David was of the tribe
of Judah-------the NT provides a lineage for Jesus indicating that HE was of the tribe of Judah and was
even born in the same town ---ie Bethlehem. Historically-----some of the Prophets-----like Jeremiah
(I think----don't quote me) were levites. It is the NT that makes the case for Jesus as KING. ----maybe
that was a mistake on the part of the writers

The gospels make it clear that Jesus did not claim to be a king or aspire to be a king.

Jesus said to pilate, "King is your word. My task is to bear witness to the truth."

ok so? somehow I do not find that interchange all that impressive

Read deuteronomy 18:18 and then tell me where you see a king like David?

Doesn't it say he will be a prophet like Moses?

as far as I can make out------the thing you posted says that there will be future prophets
like Moses. I need the original in Hebrew. It is not clear to me that the "future
prophet"--------is the entity that has come to be called MESSIAH (moshiach)

 

[ding]

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

sheeesh where does that ^^^^ come from? in what language was that BS written? If Jesus
were "DELIVERED TO THE JEWS"-----HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED----or executed

Maybe it comes from the prophet that fulfilled your prophecies.

Oh.. wait... it can't be that, you guys are still waiting for that.

Wow... 2400 years. That's a long wait.

At what point are you going to recognize that they have already been fulfilled?

 

[hobelim]

The world is a mess, even on the brink. If you and God are best buddies and had some inside info that might help, why wouldn't you?

Besides, I'm pretty sure he has things under control.

For when they became satisfied, they became proud and forgot God.

Then they suffered.

The best thing we could do right now is get to rock bottom as fast as possible so we can start the cycle all over again.

You could have just come right out with it and admitted that you never heard a single word, not a peep, from God in your entire life.


Best thing to do is hit rock bottom as fast as possible? Great plan commander!



Pft.

It doesn't all happen in an instant for all at the same time or the land would be barren but the more that are awaken the better as that brings in a change.

I disagree. Isn't it the expectation that when Jesus emerges from the clouds all eyes will see him? And at the resurrection the transformation of the dead will be in the twinkling of an eye?

You are free to believe that if you so desire. Clouds is something you may wanna look up to see what that is referencing. or you can believe me when I say it is talking about a fine mist of pebbles (little stones that are heavenly hosts) that keep us in the proper groove.

Clouds are symbolic of the controversies that surrounded Jesus as he bodily ascended into heaven and obscured him from even the sight of his closest friends...

Remember, he will return in the same way they saw him go, in the clouds of controversy..

 

[irosie91]

The world is a mess, even on the brink. If you and God are best buddies and had some inside info that might help, why wouldn't you?

Besides, I'm pretty sure he has things under control.

For when they became satisfied, they became proud and forgot God.

Then they suffered.

The best thing we could do right now is get to rock bottom as fast as possible so we can start the cycle all over again.

You could have just come right out with it and admitted that you never heard a single word, not a peep, from God in your entire life.


Best thing to do is hit rock bottom as fast as possible? Great plan commander!



Pft.

It doesn't all happen in an instant for all at the same time or the land would be barren but the more that are awaken the better as that brings in a change.

I disagree. Isn't it the expectation that when Jesus emerges from the clouds all eyes will see him? And at the resurrection the transformation of the dead will be in the twinkling of an eye?

You are free to believe that if you so desire. Clouds is something you may wanna look up to see what that is referencing. or you can believe me when I say it is talking about a fine mist of pebbles (little stones that are heavenly hosts) that keep us in the proper groove.

they are modern art by "god"

 

[irosie91]

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

sheeesh where does that ^^^^ come from? in what language was that BS written? If Jesus
were "DELIVERED TO THE JEWS"-----HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED----or executed

Maybe it comes from the prophet that fulfilled your prophecies.

Oh.. wait... it can't be that, you guys are still waiting for that.

Wow... 2400 years. That's a long wait.

At what point are you going to recognize that they have already been fulfilled?

by what-------ROME's INQUISITION?

 

[ding]

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

sheeesh where does that ^^^^ come from? in what language was that BS written? If Jesus
were "DELIVERED TO THE JEWS"-----HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED----or executed

Maybe it comes from the prophet that fulfilled your prophecies.

Oh.. wait... it can't be that, you guys are still waiting for that.

Wow... 2400 years. That's a long wait.

At what point are you going to recognize that they have already been fulfilled?

by what-------ROME's INQUISITION?

Don't blame Rome for your 2400 year old open prophecy which has already be been filled.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

sheeesh where does that ^^^^ come from? in what language was that BS written? If Jesus
were "DELIVERED TO THE JEWS"-----HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED----or executed

Maybe it comes from the prophet that fulfilled your prophecies.

Oh.. wait... it can't be that, you guys are still waiting for that.

Wow... 2400 years. That's a long wait.

At what point are you going to recognize that they have already been fulfilled?

by what-------ROME's INQUISITION?

Don't blame Rome for your 2400 year old open prophecy which has already be been filled.

"filled"???? isn't IL PAPA da vicar of Christ on earth? after Peter----they fisherman with rocks
in his head ---------we call him shimmy-----I kind of nickname for SHIMON

 

[RodISHI]

Besides, I'm pretty sure he has things under control.

For when they became satisfied, they became proud and forgot God.

Then they suffered.

The best thing we could do right now is get to rock bottom as fast as possible so we can start the cycle all over again.

You could have just come right out with it and admitted that you never heard a single word, not a peep, from God in your entire life.


Best thing to do is hit rock bottom as fast as possible? Great plan commander!



Pft.

It doesn't all happen in an instant for all at the same time or the land would be barren but the more that are awaken the better as that brings in a change.

I disagree. Isn't it the expectation that when Jesus emerges from the clouds all eyes will see him? And at the resurrection the transformation of the dead will be in the twinkling of an eye?

You are free to believe that if you so desire. Clouds is something you may wanna look up to see what that is referencing. or you can believe me when I say it is talking about a fine mist of pebbles (little stones that are heavenly hosts) that keep us in the proper groove.

Cloud were symbolic of the controversies that surrounded Jesus as he bodily ascended into heaven and obscured him from even the sight of his closest friends...

Remember, he will return in the same way they saw him go, in the clouds of controversy..

Case in point. What do you consider all the bantering that goes back and forth on the Internet and all around you? Think in the spirit I know you have the capability to do so.

 

[ding]

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

sheeesh where does that ^^^^ come from? in what language was that BS written? If Jesus
were "DELIVERED TO THE JEWS"-----HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED----or executed

Maybe it comes from the prophet that fulfilled your prophecies.

Oh.. wait... it can't be that, you guys are still waiting for that.

Wow... 2400 years. That's a long wait.

At what point are you going to recognize that they have already been fulfilled?

by what-------ROME's INQUISITION?

Don't blame Rome for your 2400 year old open prophecy which has already be been filled.

"filled"???? isn't IL PAPA da vicar of Christ on earth? after Peter----they fisherman with rocks
in his head ---------we call him shimmy-----I kind of nickname for SHIMON

How much longer do you think it will be before your prophecy is filled? 2400 years is a long time.