How is Jesus the Messiah?

[irosie91]

I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

At least in orthodox Judaism.

MISHNEH TORAH
Laws Concerning Kings
Chapter XI

The Messianic King will arise in the future and restore the Davidic Kingdom to its former state and original sovereignty.

Laws Concerning Kings and the Messiah

that's the opinion of R' Moshe ben Maimon. you believe him?

 

[hobelim]

Can someone explain this to me?
As far as i can tell, he didnt meet the requirements. Obviously lol..
So how?

What requirements didn't he meet?

Some people claim that the messiah was supposed to rebuild the Temple based on a stupid interpretation of a prophecy that states that the messiah will restore the "sanctuary of God" which is about the promised "divine providence" for the righteous application of the law, not a gilded slaughterhouse made by human hands....

It all boils down to the fact that irrational messianic expectations went unfulfilled by Jesus who appeared during a time when the Temple was already standing restored, making his messianic claims seem like a mental illness.

Consequently, the way in which he did fulfill the prophecy about restoring the sanctuary of God still eludes them.

 

[TNHarley]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

 

[ding]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

Which prophecy didn't he fulfill?

You are the OP, right? It is the basis for the OP and you have yet to say.

Seems like a hit piece to me given that you can't name jack shit.

 

[Indeependent]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

 

[ding]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

It might help if he at least said which prophecies were not met and why he believes that.

But sure, absent that this is going no where because the basis for his belief is no where.

Do you even logic?

 

[admonit]

I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

At least in orthodox Judaism.

MISHNEH TORAH
Laws Concerning Kings
Chapter XI

The Messianic King will arise in the future and restore the Davidic Kingdom to its former state and original sovereignty.

Laws Concerning Kings and the Messiah

that's the opinion of R' Moshe ben Maimon. you believe him?

Moses ben Maimon aka Maimonides formulated 613 commandments in Judaism..

 

[Indeependent]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

It might help if he at least said which prophecies were not met and why he believes that.

But sure, absent that this is going no where because the basis for his belief is no where.

Do you even logic?

You mean like Global Peace?
All animals becoming herbivores.
Don’t play ignorant.
Post Jesus has been everything not stated in any of the prophets.

 

[irosie91]

I'm not trying to establish theology here. I'm just trying to establish what the Jewish expectation was for the Messiah. As near as I can tell David was promised that one of his descendants would be it and that it was his belief that they would be King of the Jews like David. Right?

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

At least in orthodox Judaism.

MISHNEH TORAH
Laws Concerning Kings
Chapter XI

The Messianic King will arise in the future and restore the Davidic Kingdom to its former state and original sovereignty.

Laws Concerning Kings and the Messiah

that's the opinion of R' Moshe ben Maimon. you believe him?

Moses ben Maimon aka Maimonides formulated 613 commandments in Judaism..

sorta. Mishneh torah<<< I believe it was his Opus Magnus. A comprehensive exegesis
on the whole "five books" . He may have been the first to COUNT UP 613 ?? I D K

 

[irosie91]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

It might help if he at least said which prophecies were not met and why he believes that.

But sure, absent that this is going no where because the basis for his belief is no where.

Do you even logic?

You mean like Global Peace?
All animals becoming herbivores.
Don’t play ignorant.
Post Jesus has been everything not stated in any of the prophets.

the lamb lies down with the lion? KINKY!!!!!!!

 

[ding]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

It might help if he at least said which prophecies were not met and why he believes that.

But sure, absent that this is going no where because the basis for his belief is no where.

Do you even logic?

You mean like Global Peace?
All animals becoming herbivores.
Don’t play ignorant.
Post Jesus has been everything not stated in any of the prophets.

I mean like a comprehensive list of the ones the OP believes were not met.

Is that too much to ask for? The basis for belief? Seems like it should already exist since he has published his belief.

How many standards are you willing to lower?

 

[Indeependent]

And, as was proven here, Jesus was not a legal descendant of king David and of course he never was a king.

PS it is not entirely clear to me that THE MESSIAH----according to jewish thought-----IS GOING TO
BE THE KING anyone?

At least in orthodox Judaism.

MISHNEH TORAH
Laws Concerning Kings
Chapter XI

The Messianic King will arise in the future and restore the Davidic Kingdom to its former state and original sovereignty.

Laws Concerning Kings and the Messiah

that's the opinion of R' Moshe ben Maimon. you believe him?

Moses ben Maimon aka Maimonides formulated 613 commandments in Judaism..

sorta. Mishneh torah<<< I believe it was his Opus Magnus. A comprehensive exegesis
on the whole "five books" . He may have been the first to COUNT UP 613 ?? I D K

The 613 concept is from the Talmud.

 

[ding]

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

It might help if he at least said which prophecies were not met and why he believes that.

But sure, absent that this is going no where because the basis for his belief is no where.

Do you even logic?

You mean like Global Peace?
All animals becoming herbivores.
Don’t play ignorant.
Post Jesus has been everything not stated in any of the prophets.

the lamb lies down with the lion? KINKY!!!!!!!

That is only when Jews team up with militant atheists. Like back in WWII.

 

[Indeependent]

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

It might help if he at least said which prophecies were not met and why he believes that.

But sure, absent that this is going no where because the basis for his belief is no where.

Do you even logic?

You mean like Global Peace?
All animals becoming herbivores.
Don’t play ignorant.
Post Jesus has been everything not stated in any of the prophets.

I mean like a comprehensive list of the ones the OP believes were not met.

Is that too much to ask for? The basis for belief? Seems like it should already exist since he has published his belief.

How many standards are you willing to lower?

Drink some coffee, go to Wikipedia and look it up.
Lord, man, are you basing your eternity on something you know zero about?

 

[irosie91]

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

It might help if he at least said which prophecies were not met and why he believes that.

But sure, absent that this is going no where because the basis for his belief is no where.

Do you even logic?

You mean like Global Peace?
All animals becoming herbivores.
Don’t play ignorant.
Post Jesus has been everything not stated in any of the prophets.

I mean like a comprehensive list of the ones the OP believes were not met.

Is that too much to ask for? The basis for belief? Seems like it should already exist since he has published his belief.

How many standards are you willing to lower?

Drink some coffee, go to Wikipedia and look it up.
Lord, man, are you basing your eternity on something you know zero about?

I am in THE MOOOD >>>>>.....about which your know, zero.

 

[Indeependent]

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

It might help if he at least said which prophecies were not met and why he believes that.

But sure, absent that this is going no where because the basis for his belief is no where.

Do you even logic?

You mean like Global Peace?
All animals becoming herbivores.
Don’t play ignorant.
Post Jesus has been everything not stated in any of the prophets.

I mean like a comprehensive list of the ones the OP believes were not met.

Is that too much to ask for? The basis for belief? Seems like it should already exist since he has published his belief.

How many standards are you willing to lower?

Drink some coffee, go to Wikipedia and look it up.
Lord, man, are you basing your eternity on something you know zero about?

I am in THE MOOOD >>>>>.....about which your know, zero.

Ding seems clueless when it comes to his Scripture.

 

[irosie91]

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

A devout Christian is incapable of seeing reality in terms of whether or not Jesus effectuated the prophecies; you’re not going to get anywhere with this discussion.

It might help if he at least said which prophecies were not met and why he believes that.

But sure, absent that this is going no where because the basis for his belief is no where.

Do you even logic?

You mean like Global Peace?
All animals becoming herbivores.
Don’t play ignorant.
Post Jesus has been everything not stated in any of the prophets.

the lamb lies down with the lion? KINKY!!!!!!!

That is only when Jews team up with militant atheists. Like back in WWII.

Interesting example

 

[TNHarley]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

Which prophecy didn't he fulfill?

You are the OP, right? It is the basis for the OP and you have yet to say.

Seems like a hit piece to me given that you can't name jack shit.

I have stated multiple times

 

[TNHarley]

• Isaiah 1 "And I will restore your judges as at first and your counsellors as in the beginning; afterwards you shall be called City of Righteousness, Faithful City." Some Jews[8] interpret this to mean that the Sanhedrin will be re-established." (Isaiah 1:26)
• Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
• The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:11–17)
• He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8–10, 2 Chronicles 7:18)
• The "spirit of the Lord" will be upon him, and he will have a "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
• Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
• Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
• He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
• All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
• Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
• There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
• All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
• The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
• He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
• Nations will recognize the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13–53:5)
• The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
• The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
• Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
• The people of Israel will have direct access to the Torah through their minds and Torah study will become the study of the wisdom of the heart (Jeremiah 31:33)[9]
• He will give you all the worthy desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
• He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13–15, Ezekiel 36:29–30, Isaiah 11:6–9)

Hey ding, how many of these did he fulfill?

 

[Indeependent]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

Its THEIR prophecy. Who the fuck are you guys? You cant just say a guy fulfilled the prophecy when he didnt fulfill the prophecy and say the people for who the prophecy belongs to got it wrong.
My gawd man, that is the ultimate dishonesty.

Which prophecy didn't he fulfill?

You are the OP, right? It is the basis for the OP and you have yet to say.

Seems like a hit piece to me given that you can't name jack shit.

I have stated multiple times

It’s call Cognitive Dissonance.