How Many Christians Believe that Heaven is REALLY Real?

[thebrucebeat]

Your logic is flawed. Fearing death doesn't prevent it. Man is going to die regardless of what he believes. Heaven doesn't effect that.
This is the lack of fear attitude of Christians and why:



Therefore, I didn't create Heaven because I am afraid to die. I just look forward to it when I do.

What it boils down to is, if a Christian is wrong, and dies, then no harm comes from their belief. They would simply cease to exist with the non believers. On the other hand, if the non believers are wrong, and they die, they will realize the consequences of their error the second they exhale their last breath here on earth. Their eternity is bleak.

You see Bruce, if a believer is highly invested in Heaven, then there is no unknown.

If the unknown produces fear, then knowing Christ produces calm.
No Jesus - No Peace
Know Jesus - Know Peace.

Because your logic is so poor you don't even understand you just made my point.

lol, then be specific and explain his poor logic, ass hat.

Your ambiguous claims are not impressing anyone, nor do they have the slightest element of Truth to them, simply because you claim that they are so.

Sorry.
Most grade-school children would have understood.
His whole post is about how the fear of death is overcome by his faith.
My point was this fear is what drives people to their faith.
He confirmed that.
Thanks for trying to swim in the deep end.

 

[RKMBrown]

Saw a good movie last night named 'Heaven is Real' and one of the things I had forgotten but it reminded me of was the prevalence of people in main stream Protestantism that do not believe in a literal Heaven.

So I thought I would put the question out there for this board; How many of you believe that Heave is REALLY Real?

Define the terms 'heaven' and 'real.'

Heaven - in the context of this movie, is used to represent the region inhabited by souls of the dead who are brought into fellowship with good people and other such beings, like the angels. In the more traditional sense, Heaven is the divine presence of God Himself, in the Holy of Holies.

Real - something that is actual, that exists independent of any individuals perception of it and has a verifiable set of qualities and behavior. In this case, Heaven has been seen by people throughout human history and recorded in various holy scripture of differing faiths with some things being almost entirely universal and others being subjective and unique to that system of faith.

Hope that helps, though I highly doubt it.

It does.

I believe that heaven is real in your stated traditional sense, but recognize that divine presence is a broad religious phrase having different meanings to each reader.

As to the context of the movie, well it's just a movie. Is the movie a documentary, clearly no. Is the movie an irrefutable perfect depiction of actual events? Clearly, no it's a fiction replete with metaphors representing hope and desire for such a place. That said, some fictions have basis and eventually do come to pass or not.

 

[RKMBrown]

I think he means as in there is an afterlife--when people die, their soul goes someplace else where they can re unite with other souls.


Of course you have to believe in ghosts, which, most of the time, I tend to doubt very much.

Ok and what would real be, in the context a place in which souls go to congregate after the real body dies?

You are letting him answer a question directed to me.

Really?

:/

No. I was addressing his question to me. I did not take his answer as yours. The point of my question was also to point out that the question of heaven being real is just to broad a question. Just as your statement of traditional description of heaven being something that is a broad phrase interpreted differently by different readers.

Two people can watch the same event and come out with two completely different views of what is real about what happened. Real when used broadly is an interpretation of the viewer. Heaven when not described is what the reader sees as heaven. For example, the writer can say the woman of my dreams came around the corner and I knew right there that she was the one I would marry some day. Each reader will have a different minds eye view of that woman.

 

[RKMBrown]

I define heaven and hell as including that which we create right here on earth. Don't see a reason to limit heaven to non-earthly things.

That leaves reincarnation as a possibility, also allows for souls possibly being reflected through the some heretofore undiscovered dimensional plane that parallels our four dimensions of reality, possibly allowing for ghosts & angels, ...

I don't see a reason to place artificial limits on things we have no clue about.

Do you see a reason to let people speak for themselves, though?

I understand your frustration. Of course I see a reason to let people speak for themselves.

I've been using discussion boards since 1979, yes, since before the internet was born.

I've gotten over the tendency of people to interject their answer to a question directed to someone else. It's just the way it works. Questions directed to particular people will be answered by others. What you, the original target of the question have to realize is that those people and the original questioner are not slighting you by also having a separate conversation.

We call these discussions threads. They are called threads because the communications follow threads of conversation. Threads fork. Sometimes threads that forked come back again. Sometimes the moderator of the original thread sets rules, sometimes the moderator asks a fork to go elsewhere.

 

[RKMBrown]

Is the sun a part of this world? How about the universe? Is it a part of this world? How do you know what the universe entails and how do you know Heaven isn't there somewhere?

You are one stupid fuck if you don't know whether the sun is a part of this world or not. Never been outside your home? Never looked up during daylight?

lol up there in the stars.. right next to the greek gods right? lol

The phrase 'part of this world' is kinda ambiguous. You say it is apparent that the sun is part of 'this world', and yet the vast majority of time 'part of this world' means Earth.

How does deliberately misinterpreting another persons statement enable you to grasp what they are trying to say?

Or does that even matter to you?

Lonestar is an asshole, always has been an asshole, and always will be an asshole. I talk to him as I would any other asshole.

He purposefully misinterpreted my statements to have a reason to call me a "stupid fuck"... so I returned the favor.

Some would call that friendly banter. Others, would not.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Heaven has not yet been proven to exist.

Proven? not proven to who on what basis?

When a criminal gets convicted, were they convicted by a team of scientists using peer review? When you fall in love, do you have to get that confirmed in a lab first before you have confidence in what you feel in your heart?

Science has not proven that Heaven is real, but why should anyone expect science to address nonscience topics?

You secularists are totally weird and uninformed on this whole range of issues.

You have a theory, nothing more. What exactly are you basing the existence of heaven on anyways?

The same thing the courts base most of their cases on; eye witness accounts.

And why would heaven not be able to be detected by science? Dark matter could be where all the souls reside, as we haven't figured out exactly what DM is.

Heaven is a multi-meaning word, but the witnesses do describe a heaven that is revealed and not normally in place in the 'heavens'. This is the place Christians refer to, not some rock or planet.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Compare the two bolded parts above.
Do they seem related or opposed to each other?
You are another Christian who has turned his back on the Fruits of the Spirit.
Peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.
The signs of the indwelt believer, according to Paul.
But for you...
a punchline.

The fact that you are an imbecile has no reflection on my love for God or His for me. It is only an observation about you, fool.

Do you base your love for god on the bible?
The Fruits of the Spirit as presented by Paul in Galatians indicate how a man should behave if truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
You possess none of them.

In your ignorant opinion.

Why has the HS turned his back on you?

He hasn't. Your mockery shows your ignorance even more.

Or do you simply hate god?

Why would I hate the person who has given me everything?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Because your logic is so poor you don't even understand you just made my point.

lol, then be specific and explain his poor logic, ass hat.

Your ambiguous claims are not impressing anyone, nor do they have the slightest element of Truth to them, simply because you claim that they are so.

Sorry.
Most grade-school children would have understood.

Then it should be simple for even you to explain it.

His whole post is about how the fear of death is overcome by his faith.
My point was this fear is what drives people to their faith.

Which is a lie and another fact among others that you have not the slightest clue, idiot.

He confirmed that.

He did no such thing, shit-for-brains.

Thanks for trying to swim in the deep end.

Lol, you think you are the deep end, lolol.

No, you are just the south end of a northward bound mule.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Define the terms 'heaven' and 'real.'

Heaven - in the context of this movie, is used to represent the region inhabited by souls of the dead who are brought into fellowship with good people and other such beings, like the angels. In the more traditional sense, Heaven is the divine presence of God Himself, in the Holy of Holies.

Real - something that is actual, that exists independent of any individuals perception of it and has a verifiable set of qualities and behavior. In this case, Heaven has been seen by people throughout human history and recorded in various holy scripture of differing faiths with some things being almost entirely universal and others being subjective and unique to that system of faith.

Hope that helps, though I highly doubt it.

It does.

I believe that heaven is real in your stated traditional sense, but recognize that divine presence is a broad religious phrase having different meanings to each reader.

The divine presence of God is a broad notion, but that is inherent in the nature of the thing we discuss.

As to the context of the movie, well it's just a movie. Is the movie a documentary, clearly no. Is the movie an irrefutable perfect depiction of actual events? Clearly, no it's a fiction replete with metaphors representing hope and desire for such a place. That said, some fictions have basis and eventually do come to pass or not.

It is fiction based on true events. The core facts are still valid and relevant.

Simply because Hollyweird has done fiction on the Alamo doesn't mean the Alamo isn't real.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You are one stupid fuck if you don't know whether the sun is a part of this world or not. Never been outside your home? Never looked up during daylight?

lol up there in the stars.. right next to the greek gods right? lol

The phrase 'part of this world' is kinda ambiguous. You say it is apparent that the sun is part of 'this world', and yet the vast majority of time 'part of this world' means Earth.

How does deliberately misinterpreting another persons statement enable you to grasp what they are trying to say?

Or does that even matter to you?

Lonestar is an asshole, always has been an asshole, and always will be an asshole. I talk to him as I would any other asshole.

He purposefully misinterpreted my statements to have a reason to call me a "stupid fuck"... so I returned the favor.

Some would call that friendly banter. Others, would not.

And others might call it too friendly, lol.

We human beings talk passed each other far too often IMO.

The trolls are a good thing to dismiss, but Lone Star I don't find to be a troll, nor you.

So why troll each other?

Sorry I stuck my nose into your 'relationship'.

 

[thebrucebeat]

The fact that you are an imbecile has no reflection on my love for God or His for me. It is only an observation about you, fool.

Do you base your love for god on the bible?
The Fruits of the Spirit as presented by Paul in Galatians indicate how a man should behave if truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
You possess none of them.

In your ignorant opinion.

Why has the HS turned his back on you?

He hasn't. Your mockery shows your ignorance even more.

Or do you simply hate god?

Why would I hate the person who has given me everything?

I don't know why one of you hates the other, but the indication is clear if you don't possess the qualities that scripture says you inevitably would if you were of one mind.
Are your posts peaceful? Loving? Joyful? Patient? Full of goodness and kindness? Are you gentle with people? Do you display self control?
If not, could anyone describe you as faithful?
This is YOUR scripture. Do you have any inclination to rise to the challenge of this description of the true believer, or do you discard Paul as a hack lunatic that didn't know what he was talking about.
In other words, an "ass hat" as you would say in your elegant and gentle parlance.

 

[thebrucebeat]

lol, then be specific and explain his poor logic, ass hat.

Your ambiguous claims are not impressing anyone, nor do they have the slightest element of Truth to them, simply because you claim that they are so.

Sorry.
Most grade-school children would have understood.

Then it should be simple for even you to explain it.




Which is a lie and another fact among others that you have not the slightest clue, idiot.

He confirmed that.

He did no such thing, shit-for-brains.

Thanks for trying to swim in the deep end.

Lol, you think you are the deep end, lolol.

No, you are just the south end of a northward bound mule.

No responsive argument, just invective.
Noted.

 

[1751_Texan]

Saw a good movie last night named 'Heaven is Real' and one of the things I had forgotten but it reminded me of was the prevalence of people in main stream Protestantism that do not believe in a literal Heaven.

So I thought I would put the question out there for this board; How many of you believe that Heave is REALLY Real?

I believe in heaven way more than I believe some little dude died at 4 and can reacall all the details. I can't remember one thing from when I was 4 years old.

Somebody got some free money.

 

[hangover]

Heaven is as real as hell. You can live in heaven or hell, every minute of every day, your choice. Sometimes it's harder to live in heaven, say if you're living in Syria or a homeless shelter. The rich think they're in heaven. The poor deal with a lot of hell. "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first." I'll take a hundred years of last, for an eternity of heaven.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I can't say for sure if there is a God or not, but Heaven and Hell are just stories made up by the Church in the Middle Ages to create an atmosphere of fear, so people wouldn't leave the Church.

So, you get that idea from where exactly?

You have this miraculous ability to see everything in this universe and every other possible universe and confirm that Heaven is not found in any of them

Right.

roflmao

You're the one who claims to have some miraculous ability to know all and see all. Shame on you for putting yourself above the god you say you worship while actually despising everything he taught. Your god would be ashamed of your lies about him.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Saw a good movie last night named 'Heaven is Real' and one of the things I had forgotten but it reminded me of was the prevalence of people in main stream Protestantism that do not believe in a literal Heaven.

So I thought I would put the question out there for this board; How many of you believe that Heave is REALLY Real?

I believe in heaven way more than I believe some little dude died at 4 and can reacall all the details. I can't remember one thing from when I was 4 years old.

Somebody got some free money.

Neither could he - until his daddy realized they were sitting on a gold mine.

 

[RKMBrown]

The phrase 'part of this world' is kinda ambiguous. You say it is apparent that the sun is part of 'this world', and yet the vast majority of time 'part of this world' means Earth.

How does deliberately misinterpreting another persons statement enable you to grasp what they are trying to say?

Or does that even matter to you?

Lonestar is an asshole, always has been an asshole, and always will be an asshole. I talk to him as I would any other asshole.

He purposefully misinterpreted my statements to have a reason to call me a "stupid fuck"... so I returned the favor.

Some would call that friendly banter. Others, would not.

And others might call it too friendly, lol.

We human beings talk passed each other far too often IMO.

The trolls are a good thing to dismiss, but Lone Star I don't find to be a troll, nor you.

So why troll each other?

Sorry I stuck my nose into your 'relationship'.

To friendly? lol. I suspect if we were to meet in a bar we'd get into a fist fight and ... then after he got up off the floor we'd become friends. Till then we'll probably just keep tossing baited hooks at each other.

My politics lean to constitutional conservatism as the constitution was originally formed, more libertarian than authoritarian christian conservative, anti gay, war hawk, neo-con right. But just because I lean libertarian does not mean I'm passive. I'm a type A, liberty loving, gun toting, christian, family man, with the best wife & kids anyone ever had, and a penchant for being a pita to authoritarians from both sides.

 

[kwc57]

Most believers are highly invested in the idea of heaven as their faith is rooted in their fear of death and the unknown.
So many will cite their joy of having eternal life at the center of their belief. You often see it repeated on these threads, even in the midst of a post riddled with profanity and unchecked hatred of their challengers. The disconnect with the Message with the exception of believing they get to live forever is shocking, but it illuminates the base reason for their faith.
Fear.

I would think that, for those who believe in a heaven, or an afterlife as it were, the fear of death would be greatly diminished. Especially for those who are certain...

Naw ... bruce is right. On all points.

Fear is what drives all religion. Fear that is so strong, so overpowering that believers are able to put aside all intelligence and logic to believe in magic sky fairies, an invisible heaven and lots of different magical powers given to everyday objects and substances.

That fear is so powerful, they're willing to forgive and excuse the worst from their gods.

**shrug**

Whatever gets them through those long dark nights.

Hmmm, seems politics isn't the only subject you make low information comments on. Speaking of fear, educating yourself won't hurt nearly as bad as your think. Give it a try. You can do it Puddly.

 

[thebrucebeat]

I would think that, for those who believe in a heaven, or an afterlife as it were, the fear of death would be greatly diminished. Especially for those who are certain...

Naw ... bruce is right. On all points.

Fear is what drives all religion. Fear that is so strong, so overpowering that believers are able to put aside all intelligence and logic to believe in magic sky fairies, an invisible heaven and lots of different magical powers given to everyday objects and substances.

That fear is so powerful, they're willing to forgive and excuse the worst from their gods.

**shrug**

Whatever gets them through those long dark nights.

Hmmm, seems politics isn't the only subject you make low information comments on. Speaking of fear, educating yourself won't hurt nearly as bad as your think. Give it a try. You can do it Puddly.

A non-response.
Formulate an argument and come back when you think you have something.

 

[kwc57]

Naw ... bruce is right. On all points.

Fear is what drives all religion. Fear that is so strong, so overpowering that believers are able to put aside all intelligence and logic to believe in magic sky fairies, an invisible heaven and lots of different magical powers given to everyday objects and substances.

That fear is so powerful, they're willing to forgive and excuse the worst from their gods.

**shrug**

Whatever gets them through those long dark nights.

Hmmm, seems politics isn't the only subject you make low information comments on. Speaking of fear, educating yourself won't hurt nearly as bad as your think. Give it a try. You can do it Puddly.

A non-response.
Formulate an argument and come back when you think you have something.

A more than ample response to an ignorant uninformed post.