How Many Christians Believe that Heaven is REALLY Real?

[thebrucebeat]

Jeri, do you even know if Bruce is his real name?

There is so much fraud, posturing and deception on the internet. just because someone says Fact A about themselves doesn't mean it is true at all, in any shape or form.

My bet is that Bruce is not his real name and that nothing he has said about himself or what he thinks is genuine either.

Most people take a name that is plainly not their real name. Those who do use names that seem real maybe setting you up.

But do what you feel in your heart you gotta do; I am only trying to spare you disappointment.

What would make you make an unfounded accusation like this? What kind of faith leads you to bear false witness?
Certainly not Christianity.
That is my real name.
These are my genuine thoughts.
You are an ugly soul, and I have pity for you.

One's real name is none of his business.

Never ever EVER trust anyone on the internet who says they want your real name. You can bet they have only one thing in mind and that is to cause you harm. Considering the language and threatening, nasty attitude "Jim Bowie" exhibits, he's up to no goo. No matter how he goads you, if I were you, I would not give him any more info.

I gave him no more than I give with every one of my posts.

 

[thebrucebeat]

I am a Mulder Agnostic: I want to believe. But I don't. I don't know what exists beyond terra firma, but I believe something does. I have seen too many unexplained things to be so arrogant as to think there is no way a higher power exists.

I really don't understand the vile haters who are not content to simply believe what they do (in nothing) but feel the need to ridicule people of faith. Methinks there is a naked fear in these childish cretins that perhaps they are just not in touch with the Spirit of Life. Or maybe they were raped as children.

Most don't really care if anyone believes, as long as they aren't trying to make the culture as a whole believe.
My hot button is very poor argumentation. I kind of go into attack mode then, and when believers are uninformed, or contradictory in their arguments, or use invective instead of argument, or avoid arguments instead of making a case, or create strawmen to avoid arguments, and so on, I have no respect for it and I expose it.
We have a poster on this thread who is respectfully defending themself without chastising others and respecting they are in a different place in their understanding.
I'm kinda diggin' that!
Many aren't "god-haters" as they have been accused of by some, but hate the irrational or illogical. I have no faith in the bible, for example, and I think for very good reasons, many of which have been argued ad nauseum on these threads, and the defenders invariably make very insane arguments to protect its "inerrancy". I don't let those slide, but that has nothing to do with how I feel about god, but how I feel about gullible, simple thinkers.
Everyone hopes they are going to provide the nugget that wakes someone up, believers and non alike.
It never happens, but hope springs eternal.

 

[Big Black Dog]

If you believe in the Bible then you most likely believe that there is a heaven.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Most believers are highly invested in the idea of heaven as their faith is rooted in their fear of death and the unknown.
So many will cite their joy of having eternal life at the center of their belief. You often see it repeated on these threads, even in the midst of a post riddled with profanity and unchecked hatred of their challengers. The disconnect with the Message with the exception of believing they get to live forever is shocking, but it illuminates the base reason for their faith.
Fear.

Your logic is flawed. Fearing death doesn't prevent it. Man is going to die regardless of what he believes. Heaven doesn't effect that.
This is the lack of fear attitude of Christians and why:

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me......

Therefore, I didn't create Heaven because I am afraid to die. I just look forward to it when I do.

What it boils down to is, if a Christian is wrong, and dies, there is no consequence to their belief. They would simply cease to exist with the non believers. On the other hand, if the non believers are wrong, and they die, they will realize the consequences of their error the second they exhale their last breath here on earth. Their eternity is bleak.

You see Bruce, if a believer is highly invested in Heaven, then there is no unknown.

If the unknown produces fear, then knowing Christ produces calm.
No Jesus - No Peace
Know Jesus - Know Peace.

 

[RKMBrown]

Saw a good movie last night named 'Heaven is Real' and one of the things I had forgotten but it reminded me of was the prevalence of people in main stream Protestantism that do not believe in a literal Heaven.

So I thought I would put the question out there for this board; How many of you believe that Heave is REALLY Real?

Define the terms 'heaven' and 'real.'

 

[amrchaos]

Saw a good movie last night named 'Heaven is Real' and one of the things I had forgotten but it reminded me of was the prevalence of people in main stream Protestantism that do not believe in a literal Heaven.

So I thought I would put the question out there for this board; How many of you believe that Heave is REALLY Real?

Define the terms 'heaven' and 'real.'

I think he means as in there is an afterlife--when people die, their soul goes someplace else where they can re unite with other souls.


Of course you have to believe in ghosts, which, most of the time, I tend to doubt very much.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Most believers are highly invested in the idea of heaven as their faith is rooted in their fear of death and the unknown.
So many will cite their joy of having eternal life at the center of their belief. You often see it repeated on these threads, even in the midst of a post riddled with profanity and unchecked hatred of their challengers. The disconnect with the Message with the exception of believing they get to live forever is shocking, but it illuminates the base reason for their faith.
Fear.

Your logic is flawed. Fearing death doesn't prevent it. Man is going to die regardless of what he believes. Heaven doesn't effect that.
This is the lack of fear attitude of Christians and why:

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me......

Therefore, I didn't create Heaven because I am afraid to die. I just look forward to it when I do.

What it boils down to is, if a Christian is wrong, and dies, then no harm comes from their belief. They would simply cease to exist with the non believers. On the other hand, if the non believers are wrong, and they die, they will realize the consequences of their error the second they exhale their last breath here on earth. Their eternity is bleak.

You see Bruce, if a believer is highly invested in Heaven, then there is no unknown.

If the unknown produces fear, then knowing Christ produces calm.
No Jesus - No Peace
Know Jesus - Know Peace.

Because your logic is so poor you don't even understand you just made my point.

 

[RKMBrown]

Saw a good movie last night named 'Heaven is Real' and one of the things I had forgotten but it reminded me of was the prevalence of people in main stream Protestantism that do not believe in a literal Heaven.

So I thought I would put the question out there for this board; How many of you believe that Heave is REALLY Real?

Define the terms 'heaven' and 'real.'

I think he means as in there is an afterlife--when people die, their soul goes someplace else where they can re unite with other souls.


Of course you have to believe in ghosts, which, most of the time, I tend to doubt very much.

Ok and what would real be, in the context a place in which souls go to congregate after the real body dies?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Define the terms 'heaven' and 'real.'

I think he means as in there is an afterlife--when people die, their soul goes someplace else where they can re unite with other souls.


Of course you have to believe in ghosts, which, most of the time, I tend to doubt very much.

Ok and what would real be, in the context a place in which souls go to congregate after the real body dies?

Define "real"?

You are one stupid fuck if you don't know what "real" means.

 

[RKMBrown]

I define heaven and hell as including that which we create right here on earth. Don't see a reason to limit heaven to non-earthly things.

That leaves reincarnation as a possibility, also allows for souls possibly being reflected through the some heretofore undiscovered dimensional plane that parallels our four dimensions of reality, possibly allowing for ghosts & angels, ...

I don't see a reason to place artificial limits on things we have no clue about.

 

[RKMBrown]

I think he means as in there is an afterlife--when people die, their soul goes someplace else where they can re unite with other souls.


Of course you have to believe in ghosts, which, most of the time, I tend to doubt very much.

Ok and what would real be, in the context a place in which souls go to congregate after the real body dies?

Define "real"?

You are one stupid fuck if you don't know what "real" means.

Not to swift are ya. If heaven is not of this world, and this world is real, then how can heaven be real. You have to be pretty loose with the term real to qualify heaven as real. If by heaven you mean not of this world, the afterlife somewhere outside the universe...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Ok and what would real be, in the context a place in which souls go to congregate after the real body dies?

Define "real"?

You are one stupid fuck if you don't know what "real" means.

Not to swift are ya. If heaven is not of this world, and this world is real, then how can heaven be real. You have to be pretty loose with the term real to qualify heaven as real. If by heaven you mean not of this world, the afterlife somewhere outside the universe...

Is the sun a part of this world? How about the universe? Is it a part of this world? How do you know what the universe entails and how do you know Heaven isn't there somewhere?

 

[RKMBrown]

Define "real"?

You are one stupid fuck if you don't know what "real" means.

Not to swift are ya. If heaven is not of this world, and this world is real, then how can heaven be real. You have to be pretty loose with the term real to qualify heaven as real. If by heaven you mean not of this world, the afterlife somewhere outside the universe...

Is the sun a part of this world? How about the universe? Is it a part of this world? How do you know what the universe entails and how do you know Heaven isn't there somewhere?

You are one stupid fuck if you don't know whether the sun is a part of this world or not. Never been outside your home? Never looked up during daylight?

lol up there in the stars.. right next to the greek gods right? lol

 

[JimBowie1958]

There seems to be an inexhaustable amount of "wiggle room" when it comes to attempting to pin down what should be a straight forward request for an answer to the question "is heaven real?".

Upon facing death in general or someone's death in particular how many times have we heard the phrase "he/she is in a better place now"?

THAT is what we are talking about. We are not talking about the "heaven" that is the collective "conscienseness". We are asking if the dead person has some "presense, soul, personality or other representation of what was the living breathing human being having left the flesh and appeared in some other definable space and or time.

LSL has stated that this "place" is in some other dimension. So THAT so far has been the most clear response from a believer.

SO.. the question at least to LSL has been answered. He said it is in another dimension.

Those believers that do not subscrie to a heaven of "another dimension" are not really believers in a god seperate from human conscienceness.

I can understand the anger from people like LSL aimed at people like me that make fun of sky fairies and the whole Jesus son of god, heaven narrative.

The whole "god" story from a logical perspective is nonsense. The concept of "heaven" is nonsense.

There is strong evidence for a Creator and the concept of an infinite entity has long been modeled mathematically by Cantor. So there is nothing irrational about a concept of a Creator, not at all. The mathematics transfinite numbers proves an infinite Creator is a rational concept.

The existence of a Heaven in a different dimension is also rational and the mathematics of String Theory and the evidence of black holes impacting our universe as it expanded shows that there is nothing irrational or 'magical' about Heaven either.

You are simply displaying your inherent secular bias when you make dismissive and insulting references like you do, because atheists like you are simply trolls who do not understand the subject and do not want to. You just want to troll.

Labeling those that state the "real" existance of god, santa claus, tooth fairy, easter bunny and and any number of imaginary entities as trolls begs what would you have us think?

I would hope that you wouldn't be such closed minded bigots.

Surely you that "hate" the non believers must ridicule SOME forms of imaginary beings and for the purpose of this discussion "places"..

I have friend who worships Odin, and while I have many times explained to him the differences between the Creator and Odin, I have never ridiculed anyone about their faith. There is no point such derision and it is the hallmark of an ass hole.

Is there NO conversation..no assemblige of words that is "crazy"? If not then what are those people doing in the mental institutions? Are they, to some extent, not placed there based on what they believe to be real that obviously cannot be real?

Yeah, libtardism, Marxism and secular atheistic humanism are all crazy and have nothing to do with faith in anything other than their own arrogance..

 

[peach174]

So, for some, Heaven is an actual physical place?

Is it in the sky?

If so, why can't we see it with telescopes? Why don't our astronauts pass it?

Our telescopes can only see into our universe 13.7 billion light years away.
That is just a small part in such a huge universe.
If the universe is infinite and scientists don't know if it is or isn't ,that means we see relatively a very Small amount of the universe.

 

[MrMax]

Heaven has not yet been proven to exist.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What would make you make an unfounded accusation like this? What kind of faith leads you to bear false witness?
Certainly not Christianity.
That is my real name.
These are my genuine thoughts.
You are an ugly soul, and I have pity for you.

One's real name is none of his business.

Never ever EVER trust anyone on the internet who says they want your real name. You can bet they have only one thing in mind and that is to cause you harm. Considering the language and threatening, nasty attitude "Jim Bowie" exhibits, he's up to no goo. No matter how he goads you, if I were you, I would not give him any more info.

I gave him no more than I give with every one of my posts.

[MENTION=48205]thebrucebeat[/MENTION]

I know. That was a message to him as much as anything else.

I believe that this should be nipped in the bud.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

So, for some, Heaven is an actual physical place?

Is it in the sky?

If so, why can't we see it with telescopes? Why don't our astronauts pass it?

Our telescopes can only see into our universe 13.7 billion light years away.
That is just a small part in such a huge universe.
If the universe is infinite and scientists don't know if it is or isn't ,that means we see relatively a very Small amount of the universe.

So, THAT's why we can't see the morm's planet, Kolob.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Heaven has not yet been proven to exist.

If you're gonna use your brain and be all logical and junk, you won't be allowed to play.

 

[HUGGY]

There seems to be an inexhaustable amount of "wiggle room" when it comes to attempting to pin down what should be a straight forward request for an answer to the question "is heaven real?".

Upon facing death in general or someone's death in particular how many times have we heard the phrase "he/she is in a better place now"?

THAT is what we are talking about. We are not talking about the "heaven" that is the collective "conscienseness". We are asking if the dead person has some "presense, soul, personality or other representation of what was the living breathing human being having left the flesh and appeared in some other definable space and or time.

LSL has stated that this "place" is in some other dimension. So THAT so far has been the most clear response from a believer.

SO.. the question at least to LSL has been answered. He said it is in another dimension.

Those believers that do not subscrie to a heaven of "another dimension" are not really believers in a god seperate from human conscienceness.

I can understand the anger from people like LSL aimed at people like me that make fun of sky fairies and the whole Jesus son of god, heaven narrative.

The whole "god" story from a logical perspective is nonsense. The concept of "heaven" is nonsense.

There is strong evidence for a Creator and the concept of an infinite entity has long been modeled mathematically by Cantor. So there is nothing irrational about a concept of a Creator, not at all. The mathematics transfinite numbers proves an infinite Creator is a rational concept.

The existence of a Heaven in a different dimension is also rational and the mathematics of String Theory and the evidence of black holes impacting our universe as it expanded shows that there is nothing irrational or 'magical' about Heaven either.

You are simply displaying your inherent secular bias when you make dismissive and insulting references like you do, because atheists like you are simply trolls who do not understand the subject and do not want to. You just want to troll.

Labeling those that state the "real" existance of god, santa claus, tooth fairy, easter bunny and and any number of imaginary entities as trolls begs what would you have us think?

I would hope that you wouldn't be such closed minded bigots.

Surely you that "hate" the non believers must ridicule SOME forms of imaginary beings and for the purpose of this discussion "places"..

I have friend who worships Odin, and while I have many times explained to him the differences between the Creator and Odin, I have never ridiculed anyone about their faith. There is no point such derision and it is the hallmark of an ass hole.

Is there NO conversation..no assemblige of words that is "crazy"? If not then what are those people doing in the mental institutions? Are they, to some extent, not placed there based on what they believe to be real that obviously cannot be real?

Yeah, libtardism, Marxism and secular atheistic humanism are all crazy and have nothing to do with faith in anything other than their own arrogance..

So it is obvious YOU have no intention of having a civil discussion on the OP subject. Your intention as the OP makes YOU not I the "troll". You have posted a "baiting" thread which is as much a violation of the rules as any response to it that YOU would consider trolling. You and some others of a like mind are simply "trolling" for an excuse to swear at non believers.

I am more than capable of insulting someone as dumb as you till the end of time.

I apologise for attempting to have a responsible discussion on whether heaven is real.

Heaven is a lie. Heaven is an integral part of the scam known generally as Judeo Christian religion. You and those like you would be prosecuted as criminals if your fraud wasn't so widely cast.

Fear is just ONE way religion, especially the christian variety, is perpetrated on the public. The Muslim religion is very much based on fear. Fear of being murdered is very REAL in some parts of the world. The same tactics were very real not too long ago in the spreading of Christianity.

If I had my way the fact that statute of limitations never allowing murder to go un answered should be upheld to the letter and all murderers should be charged and convicted even though they are long since deceased. This justice would show the world what foundation of true evil you and those like you have built your house on.

The question of heaven existing is frivolous and a stupid joke... an insult to questions in general as there are much more earthly questions of crime and punishment that need answered. There are literally millions of REAL crimes involving millions of perpetrators and victims that could be cleared up encompassing torture and murder. Class action suits and criminal prosecutions should be convened to expose the TRUTH of what you and those like you REALLY are.

There may not be a god or a heaven but there is most certainly evil. It is you.