How Many Christians Believe that Heaven is REALLY Real?

[Kooshdakhaa]

Of course heaven is real. I heard the testimony of the young child that saw heaven on youtube video. ( years ago - there is a book also ) I believe every word. I'm glad they made it into a movie. It is impossible for the child to have known what his mother and father were doing / saying / at the exact moment it happened without his being there. One of my favorite ministers from years ago is a man named Roberts Liardon and he was caught up into heaven during prayer and has given testimony about his experience also.

I find it very interesting the timing of these movie releases, Noah, Heaven is real, etc. I believe God is speaking to people if only they are willing to hear. It's a final call before all hell breaks loose upon the earth.

Gotta love that "fear factor."

 

[JimBowie1958]

So, for some, Heaven is an actual physical place?

Is it in the sky?

If so, why can't we see it with telescopes? Why don't our astronauts pass it?

Our telescopes can only see into our universe 13.7 billion light years away.
That is just a small part in such a huge universe.
If the universe is infinite and scientists don't know if it is or isn't ,that means we see relatively a very Small amount of the universe.

It is known that our universe is not infinite.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Heaven has not yet been proven to exist.

Proven? not proven to who on what basis?

When a criminal gets convicted, were they convicted by a team of scientists using peer review? When you fall in love, do you have to get that confirmed in a lab first before you have confidence in what you feel in your heart?

Science has not proven that Heaven is real, but why should anyone expect science to address nonscience topics?

You secularists are totally weird and uninformed on this whole range of issues.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Of course heaven is real. I heard the testimony of the young child that saw heaven on youtube video. ( years ago - there is a book also ) I believe every word. I'm glad they made it into a movie. It is impossible for the child to have known what his mother and father were doing / saying / at the exact moment it happened without his being there. One of my favorite ministers from years ago is a man named Roberts Liardon and he was caught up into heaven during prayer and has given testimony about his experience also.

I find it very interesting the timing of these movie releases, Noah, Heaven is real, etc. I believe God is speaking to people if only they are willing to hear. It's a final call before all hell breaks loose upon the earth.

Gotta love that "fear factor."

For some fear is more of a motivator than love.

Which proves nothing more than that fear is more of a motivator than love for some people.

 

[JimBowie1958]

There seems to be an inexhaustable amount of "wiggle room" when it comes to attempting to pin down what should be a straight forward request for an answer to the question "is heaven real?".

Upon facing death in general or someone's death in particular how many times have we heard the phrase "he/she is in a better place now"?

THAT is what we are talking about. We are not talking about the "heaven" that is the collective "conscienseness". We are asking if the dead person has some "presense, soul, personality or other representation of what was the living breathing human being having left the flesh and appeared in some other definable space and or time.

LSL has stated that this "place" is in some other dimension. So THAT so far has been the most clear response from a believer.

SO.. the question at least to LSL has been answered. He said it is in another dimension.

Those believers that do not subscrie to a heaven of "another dimension" are not really believers in a god seperate from human conscienceness.

I can understand the anger from people like LSL aimed at people like me that make fun of sky fairies and the whole Jesus son of god, heaven narrative.

The whole "god" story from a logical perspective is nonsense. The concept of "heaven" is nonsense.

There is strong evidence for a Creator and the concept of an infinite entity has long been modeled mathematically by Cantor. So there is nothing irrational about a concept of a Creator, not at all. The mathematics transfinite numbers proves an infinite Creator is a rational concept.

The existence of a Heaven in a different dimension is also rational and the mathematics of String Theory and the evidence of black holes impacting our universe as it expanded shows that there is nothing irrational or 'magical' about Heaven either.

You are simply displaying your inherent secular bias when you make dismissive and insulting references like you do, because atheists like you are simply trolls who do not understand the subject and do not want to. You just want to troll.



I would hope that you wouldn't be such closed minded bigots.

I have friend who worships Odin, and while I have many times explained to him the differences between the Creator and Odin, I have never ridiculed anyone about their faith. There is no point such derision and it is the hallmark of an ass hole.

Is there NO conversation..no assemblige of words that is "crazy"? If not then what are those people doing in the mental institutions? Are they, to some extent, not placed there based on what they believe to be real that obviously cannot be real?

Yeah, libtardism, Marxism and secular atheistic humanism are all crazy and have nothing to do with faith in anything other than their own arrogance..

So it is obvious YOU have no intention of having a civil discussion on the OP subject.

It is impossible to have a civil discussion on a topic with people like yourself who know almost zero on the subject and yet insist that you are completely right about everything you think regarding the subject. Really, the word 'Fool' doesn't do you justice.

Your intention as the OP makes YOU not I the "troll". You have posted a "baiting" thread which is as much a violation of the rules as any response to it that YOU would consider trolling. You and some others of a like mind are simply "trolling" for an excuse to swear at non believers.

I am simply observing how 'fringe' atheism is, despite all the oligarch propaganda.

I am more than capable of insulting someone as dumb as you till the end of time.

Insults are easy enough, but if that is all you've got then whats the point?

You folks are simply children, who think if you close your eyes hard enough and stick your fingers in your ears and go 'NANANANANANANA' loud enough and long enough, the evidence and thought that disturbs you so much will vanish.

In short, your insecurities make you act like totally fucktards and you don't get it.

I don't insult those who don't insult me, and I don't go out of my way to disprove people who believe in something like Odin or whatever they have faith in. They do not threaten me because I am confident it is not true, so it's no big deal if they want to take flights of fantasy.

The fact that you atheists are so insecure and quick to swallow bait whole proves that you do have a fear so visceral you cannot ignore it and it does very deeply threaten you and your ilk.

I apologise for attempting to have a responsible discussion on whether heaven is real.

Yes, you are not equipped to have such a discussion. Apology accepted, idiot.

Heaven is a lie. Heaven is an integral part of the scam known generally as Judeo Christian religion. You and those like you would be prosecuted as criminals if your fraud wasn't so widely cast.

Says the fool who hasn't the slightest notion of what Christianity teaches, lol.

Fear is just ONE way religion, especially the christian variety, is perpetrated on the public.

According to Karl Marx who was NEVER wrong about anything, lol.

If I had my way the fact that statute of limitations never allowing murder to go un answered should be upheld to the letter and all murderers should be charged and convicted even though they are long since deceased. This justice would show the world what foundation of true evil you and those like you have built your house on.

Lol, putting people on trial for the deeds of the deceased; classic libtard tyranny.

Thanks for the confession, troll.

The question of heaven existing is frivolous and a stupid joke... an insult to questions in general as there are much more earthly questions of crime and punishment that need answered.

And your closed minded bigotry is exactly why you are too ignorant to discuss the subject, jack ass.

There are literally millions of REAL crimes involving millions of perpetrators and victims that could be cleared up encompassing torture and murder. Class action suits and criminal prosecutions should be convened to expose the TRUTH of what you and those like you REALLY are.

Your deluded paranoia about Christianity is clinical. Get help before you totally lose it and hurt little kids in a day care center or something worse.

There may not be a god or a heaven but there is most certainly evil. It is you.

Lol, yes, we all know that disagreeing with a libtard fool like you is evil.

roflmao

 

[JimBowie1958]

Bruce isn't a waste of time to me. Bruce is the very person Christ died for. I cannot forget that as a believer.

Jeri, do you even know if Bruce is his real name?

There is so much fraud, posturing and deception on the internet. just because someone says Fact A about themselves doesn't mean it is true at all, in any shape or form.

My bet is that Bruce is not his real name and that nothing he has said about himself or what he thinks is genuine either.

Most people take a name that is plainly not their real name. Those who do use names that seem real maybe setting you up.

But do what you feel in your heart you gotta do; I am only trying to spare you disappointment.

What would make you make an unfounded accusation like this? What kind of faith leads you to bear false witness?
Certainly not Christianity.
That is my real name.
These are my genuine thoughts.
You are an ugly soul, and I have pity for you.

OK, prove your first name is really Bruce and I'll drop the question. Of course you wont, but then that is my point, shit-for-brains.

Oh, BTW, asking a question or observing a general truth is really different than making an accusation, idiot.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I have another question.

Is free will taken away once you die? If Christians are correct that we have free to obey God or not, then I think free will is lost upon death of the physical body.

Think about it. If your place in Heaven/Hell is already decided, it would not make sense for any one to continue making decisions for themselves. They could lose their place in Heaven, or become righteous in Hell and then the whole purpose for the afterlife would become messed up!!

Just a thought, but I think it has some implications of what to expect if there is an afterlife.

Some things are avoidable after much learning and experience.

Is it possible that while you drive your car that you might suddenly turn into oncoming traffic? Of course it is, but it is a rare thing, so rare few worry about it. And this is only after a few decades driving a car.

My guess is that there will be sin in Paradise, but it will be a very rare thing because people have learned that sin is a way of harming one's self, most of all, as well as others. So people simply do not want to sin 99.999999999999999999% of the time and so do not do it.

After we have spent a very long time in Paradise, or 'Abraham's Bossom' as Jesus refers to it in a parable, when we are no longer satisfied with Earthly pleasures of any kind and can only find ourselves feeling at peace when in God's presence, we are then taken into Heaven to be in the presence of God for all eternity. There is no sin there at all because there is no rhyme or reason for it after such a lengthy time learning about sin, ourselves and how it harms.

I doubt that answers your question to your satisfaction, but there it is, best I can do to help you.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Naw ... bruce is right. On all points.

Fear is what drives all religion. Fear that is so strong, so overpowering that believers are able to put aside all intelligence and logic to believe in magic sky fairies, an invisible heaven and lots of different magical powers given to everyday objects and substances.

Yeah, which is why Christianity teaches about the transcending power of God's Love, His forgiveness and why Christianity has long emphasized forgiveness and repentance.

You are a jack ass imbecile.

Compare the two bolded parts above.
Do they seem related or opposed to each other?
You are another Christian who has turned his back on the Fruits of the Spirit.
Peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.
The signs of the indwelt believer, according to Paul.
But for you...
a punchline.

The fact that you are an imbecile has no reflection on my love for God or His for me. It is only an observation about you, fool.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I am a Mulder Agnostic: I want to believe. But I don't. I don't know what exists beyond terra firma, but I believe something does. I have seen too many unexplained things to be so arrogant as to think there is no way a higher power exists.

I really don't understand the vile haters who are not content to simply believe what they do (in nothing) but feel the need to ridicule people of faith. Methinks there is a naked fear in these childish cretins that perhaps they are just not in touch with the Spirit of Life. Or maybe they were raped as children.

Most don't really care if anyone believes, as long as they aren't trying to make the culture as a whole believe.
My hot button is very poor argumentation. I kind of go into attack mode then, and when believers are uninformed, or contradictory in their arguments, or use invective instead of argument, or avoid arguments instead of making a case, or create strawmen to avoid arguments, and so on, I have no respect for it and I expose it.

Yeah, but if only you could actually point such things out instead of stumbling all over yourself and looking like a moron.

roflmao

 

[JimBowie1958]

Saw a good movie last night named 'Heaven is Real' and one of the things I had forgotten but it reminded me of was the prevalence of people in main stream Protestantism that do not believe in a literal Heaven.

So I thought I would put the question out there for this board; How many of you believe that Heave is REALLY Real?

Define the terms 'heaven' and 'real.'

Heaven - in the context of this movie, is used to represent the region inhabited by souls of the dead who are brought into fellowship with good people and other such beings, like the angels. In the more traditional sense, Heaven is the divine presence of God Himself, in the Holy of Holies.

Real - something that is actual, that exists independent of any individuals perception of it and has a verifiable set of qualities and behavior. In this case, Heaven has been seen by people throughout human history and recorded in various holy scripture of differing faiths with some things being almost entirely universal and others being subjective and unique to that system of faith.

Hope that helps, though I highly doubt it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Most believers are highly invested in the idea of heaven as their faith is rooted in their fear of death and the unknown.
So many will cite their joy of having eternal life at the center of their belief. You often see it repeated on these threads, even in the midst of a post riddled with profanity and unchecked hatred of their challengers. The disconnect with the Message with the exception of believing they get to live forever is shocking, but it illuminates the base reason for their faith.
Fear.

Your logic is flawed. Fearing death doesn't prevent it. Man is going to die regardless of what he believes. Heaven doesn't effect that.
This is the lack of fear attitude of Christians and why:

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me......

Therefore, I didn't create Heaven because I am afraid to die. I just look forward to it when I do.

What it boils down to is, if a Christian is wrong, and dies, then no harm comes from their belief. They would simply cease to exist with the non believers. On the other hand, if the non believers are wrong, and they die, they will realize the consequences of their error the second they exhale their last breath here on earth. Their eternity is bleak.

You see Bruce, if a believer is highly invested in Heaven, then there is no unknown.

If the unknown produces fear, then knowing Christ produces calm.
No Jesus - No Peace
Know Jesus - Know Peace.

Because your logic is so poor you don't even understand you just made my point.

lol, then be specific and explain his poor logic, ass hat.

Your ambiguous claims are not impressing anyone, nor do they have the slightest element of Truth to them, simply because you claim that they are so.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Saw a good movie last night named 'Heaven is Real' and one of the things I had forgotten but it reminded me of was the prevalence of people in main stream Protestantism that do not believe in a literal Heaven.

So I thought I would put the question out there for this board; How many of you believe that Heave is REALLY Real?

Define the terms 'heaven' and 'real.'

I think he means as in there is an afterlife--when people die, their soul goes someplace else where they can re unite with other souls.


Of course you have to believe in ghosts, which, most of the time, I tend to doubt very much.

Poor answer, but it does reveal your lack of understanding.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Define the terms 'heaven' and 'real.'

I think he means as in there is an afterlife--when people die, their soul goes someplace else where they can re unite with other souls.


Of course you have to believe in ghosts, which, most of the time, I tend to doubt very much.

Ok and what would real be, in the context a place in which souls go to congregate after the real body dies?

You are letting him answer a question directed to me.

Really?

:/

 

[JimBowie1958]

I define heaven and hell as including that which we create right here on earth. Don't see a reason to limit heaven to non-earthly things.

That leaves reincarnation as a possibility, also allows for souls possibly being reflected through the some heretofore undiscovered dimensional plane that parallels our four dimensions of reality, possibly allowing for ghosts & angels, ...

I don't see a reason to place artificial limits on things we have no clue about.

Do you see a reason to let people speak for themselves, though?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ok and what would real be, in the context a place in which souls go to congregate after the real body dies?

Define "real"?

You are one stupid fuck if you don't know what "real" means.

Not to swift are ya. If heaven is not of this world, and this world is real, then how can heaven be real. You have to be pretty loose with the term real to qualify heaven as real. If by heaven you mean not of this world, the afterlife somewhere outside the universe...

WE now have evidence of other universes, and so they are 'not of this world' and yet they are as real as the one we live in.

Why the our-universe-centrism? lol

 

[JimBowie1958]

Not to swift are ya. If heaven is not of this world, and this world is real, then how can heaven be real. You have to be pretty loose with the term real to qualify heaven as real. If by heaven you mean not of this world, the afterlife somewhere outside the universe...

Is the sun a part of this world? How about the universe? Is it a part of this world? How do you know what the universe entails and how do you know Heaven isn't there somewhere?

You are one stupid fuck if you don't know whether the sun is a part of this world or not. Never been outside your home? Never looked up during daylight?

lol up there in the stars.. right next to the greek gods right? lol

The phrase 'part of this world' is kinda ambiguous. You say it is apparent that the sun is part of 'this world', and yet the vast majority of time 'part of this world' means Earth.

How does deliberately misinterpreting another persons statement enable you to grasp what they are trying to say?

Or does that even matter to you?

 

[Crystalclear]

I can't say for sure if there is a God or not, but Heaven and Hell are just stories made up by the Church in the Middle Ages to create an atmosphere of fear, so people wouldn't leave the Church.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I can't say for sure if there is a God or not, but Heaven and Hell are just stories made up by the Church in the Middle Ages to create an atmosphere of fear, so people wouldn't leave the Church.

So, you get that idea from where exactly?

You have this miraculous ability to see everything in this universe and every other possible universe and confirm that Heaven is not found in any of them

Right.

roflmao

 

[MrMax]

Heaven has not yet been proven to exist.

Proven? not proven to who on what basis?

When a criminal gets convicted, were they convicted by a team of scientists using peer review? When you fall in love, do you have to get that confirmed in a lab first before you have confidence in what you feel in your heart?

Science has not proven that Heaven is real, but why should anyone expect science to address nonscience topics?

You secularists are totally weird and uninformed on this whole range of issues.

You have a theory, nothing more. What exactly are you basing the existence of heaven on anyways?
And why would heaven not be able to be detected by science? Dark matter could be where all the souls reside, as we haven't figured out exactly what DM is.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Yeah, which is why Christianity teaches about the transcending power of God's Love, His forgiveness and why Christianity has long emphasized forgiveness and repentance.

You are a jack ass imbecile.

Compare the two bolded parts above.
Do they seem related or opposed to each other?
You are another Christian who has turned his back on the Fruits of the Spirit.
Peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.
The signs of the indwelt believer, according to Paul.
But for you...
a punchline.

The fact that you are an imbecile has no reflection on my love for God or His for me. It is only an observation about you, fool.

Do you base your love for god on the bible?
The Fruits of the Spirit as presented by Paul in Galatians indicate how a man should behave if truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
You possess none of them.
Why has the HS turned his back on you?
Or do you simply hate god?