How Many Lives Would Have Been Saved Had we Tortured the Captured Paris Terrorist?

[JimBowie1958]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Torture is not as simple as most people think it is. You have to involve more than just a fear of death. You have to make the target comfortable, and then strip them of their comfort for bad behavior, and have a nice friendly person who sees to the targets health and well being, who gives the target a chance to save themselves pain and discomfort by trading some information, and he engages the target with talk to see if the target has any other personal fears, hopes, or desires and then offers hope that these things can be attained after his release.

The torturers record everything that is said, and they use pain to set the mindset, dig for information, then to erase what the target said by replacing those memories with pain. The information is verified while the target is in captivity and rest. If he has lied, he loses comfort and dignity. If his information checks out, he is rewarded. in the next session, the same question are asked and then compared to the previous answers, rinse and repeat.

This process could take a long time, but waterboarding as the torture method can yield quick results as it is extremely unpleasant, making a person feel as though they are drowning.

As the uncooperative target loses comforts, he can be reduced to having no bed, a cold wet cell with his food being served in the same unwashed dish time after time. His food can be fowled and his water filthy. He can face other things that he personally finds frightening, such as close quarters if he is claustrophobic, spiders put in if he fears them also, etc. Once the target breaks down and pleads for better accommodations, he is an empty vessel.

Yes, it is cruel, but it can save a great many lives, and the target can walk away with all his fingers and toes intact.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Even if torture works many of these attackers likely have never heard about the next plot. There are thousands of ISIS supporters around the globe with no connection to each other other than devotion to the same cause.

Not this guy; there is evidence he is involved in multiple cells.

 

[easyt65]

You do know I was joking, right?

 

[Hossfly]

Even if torture works many of these attackers likely have never heard about the next plot. There are thousands of ISIS supporters around the globe with no connection to each other other than devotion to the same cause.

However the guy caught in Brussels was a plotter and planner. One of the masterminds.

 

[Lakhota]

How Many Lives Would Have Been Saved Had we Tortured the Captured Paris Terrorist?
[/QUOTE

Duh, wouldn't that decision have been up to France?

 

[Searcher44]

Clinton says torture doesnt work; nonsense, of course it works.

But I also think we could have gotten the information out of the captured terrorist and saved a lot of lives today.

What say the rest of you?

I think I'd quote this guy: "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

 

[Lakhota]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Duh, I believe it's 72 virgins. Can't you deranged NaziCons get anything right?

 

[MACAULAY]

Don't know. Don't have enough info.

But, in the classic Dirty Harry Scenario....I'm down with Clint Eastwood every time.

You ah, do realize that's a movie ---- right?

________________

You do realize, asshole, that the movie sets up a moral dilemma ....to which I was obviously referring, and which you would have known if you weren't a butt-licker and a fool.

The dilemma being whether to torture an obviously guilty murderous lunatic to try to save an innocent young girl. You liberal pussies would protect the rights of the murderous lunatic and let the girl die. And, yes, you are about the worst pussy (and dumb-ass) on this board.

 

[Alex.]

Clinton says torture doesnt work; nonsense, of course it works.

But I also think we could have gotten the information out of the captured terrorist and saved a lot of lives today.

What say the rest of you?

Clinton is correct.

There is no evidence torture will garner the desired results, or that any information obtained by torture is accurate or useful.

Torture is illegal.

When we torture, the terrorists win.

We as a people are better than that.

I would rather the authorities be considered wrong in your eyes if they could have saved a life by torture.

 

[easyt65]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Duh, I believe it's 72 virgins. Can't you deranged NaziCons get anything right?

Yeah, but they're all guys...computer and D&D nerds to boot.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Clinton says torture doesnt work; nonsense, of course it works.

But I also think we could have gotten the information out of the captured terrorist and saved a lot of lives today.

What say the rest of you?

I think I'd quote this guy: "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

Bad comparison; Jesus has no need for torture since He is omniscient.

 

[Kat]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Torture is not as simple as most people think it is. You have to involve more than just a fear of death. You have to make the target comfortable, and then strip them of their comfort for bad behavior, and have a nice friendly person who sees to the targets health and well being, who gives the target a chance to save themselves pain and discomfort by trading some information, and he engages the target with talk to see if the target has any other personal fears, hopes, or desires and then offers hope that these things can be attained after his release.

The torturers record everything that is said, and they use pain to set the mindset, dig for information, then to erase what the target said by replacing those memories with pain. The information is verified while the target is in captivity and rest. If he has lied, he loses comfort and dignity. If his information checks out, he is rewarded. in the next session, the same question are asked and then compared to the previous answers, rinse and repeat.

This process could take a long time, but waterboarding as the torture method can yield quick results as it is extremely unpleasant, making a person feel as though they are drowning.

As the uncooperative target loses comforts, he can be reduced to having no bed, a cold wet cell with his food being served in the same unwashed dish time after time. His food can be fowled and his water filthy. He can face other things that he personally finds frightening, such as close quarters if he is claustrophobic, spiders put in if he fears them also, etc. Once the target breaks down and pleads for better accommodations, he is an empty vessel.

Yes, it is cruel, but it can save a great many lives, and the target can walk away with all his fingers and toes intact.

It really doesn't bother me one bit to be ''cruel'' to any ISIS person. Why should it? Seriously. This is war

 

[Hossfly]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Duh, I believe it's 72 virgins. Can't you deranged NaziCons get anything right?

Virgils, Tonto, Virgils.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Duh, I believe it's 72 virgins. Can't you deranged NaziCons get anything right?

Yeah, but they're all guys...computer and D&D nerds to boot.

DnD nerds rule, dude

 

[Never3ndr]

Clinton says torture doesnt work; nonsense, of course it works.

But I also think we could have gotten the information out of the captured terrorist and saved a lot of lives today.

What say the rest of you?

I was never part of the intel community myself, but I can tell you that getting good intel is the difference between being effective and being ineffective...between saving lives and losing lives. Personally, when national security is at risk, I would allow our intel people to use whatever means they deem most effective (as it IS their job and they ARE the experts) to get the intel that they need (restricted, of course, by international law). It seems silly to me when politicians weigh in on matters that they really have no clue about.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I was never part of the intel community myself, but I can tell you that getting good intel is the difference between being effective and being ineffective...between saving lives and losing lives. Personally, when national security is at risk, I would allow our intel people to use whatever means they deem most effective (as it IS their job and they ARE the experts) to get the intel that they need (restricted, of course, by international law). It seems silly to me when politicians weigh in on matters that they really have no clue about.

Well, the 'torture' used should not leave bad photogenics, like scars or missing limbs. The same information can be gathered without chopping off arms, so why generate the blowback for doing things in such a crude and incompetent manner and give ones enemies propaganda fodder?

 

[Kat]

Clinton says torture doesnt work; nonsense, of course it works.

But I also think we could have gotten the information out of the captured terrorist and saved a lot of lives today.

What say the rest of you?

I was never part of the intel community myself, but I can tell you that getting good intel is the difference between being effective and being ineffective...between saving lives and losing lives. Personally, when national security is at risk, I would allow our intel people to use whatever means they deem most effective (as it IS their job and they ARE the experts) to get the intel that they need (restricted, of course, by international law). It seems silly to me when politicians weigh in on matters that they really have no clue about.

I agree, except I do think the POTUS should know.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I tend to agree. One thing for sure, we would have a LOT more info than we do.

And almost any amount of new information could have saved those lives.

Is this Paris November one? They said on news earlier, they now think same person made Paris suicide bombs and Belgian suicide bombs....and that he they believe entered Europa as a "refugee"....which of course is not too surprising.

Also one of my Uncles was talking to Geert Wilders Wednesday we just had, he's known Geert for many years, anyhow Geert told him per Europol they say they believe now that up to 5,000 Islamic Terrorists from ISIL/ISIS/Daesh and also Al-Nusra, came into Europa between September and November 2015 pretending to be "refugees" amongst influx of hundreds of thousands we witnessed....THIS IS 100% Traitor Bitch Merkel's fault.

Now of course WE told them THIS was happening, but oh no, WE were called "racists"....now, we sadly proven correct.

You know who Geert Wilders is? Yes or no? He's Dutch politician, leader of party leading in Dutch opinion polls, here is just one of his correct and sensible statements:

 

[Pogo]

Don't know. Don't have enough info.

But, in the classic Dirty Harry Scenario....I'm down with Clint Eastwood every time.

You ah, do realize that's a movie ---- right?

________________

You do realize, asshole, that the movie sets up a moral dilemma ....to which I was obviously referring, and which you would have known if you weren't a butt-licker and a fool.

The dilemma being whether to torture an obviously guilty murderous lunatic to try to save an innocent young girl. You liberal pussies would protect the rights of the murderous lunatic and let the girl die. And, yes, you are about the worst pussy (and dumb-ass) on this board.

No I don't. I don't watch movies. But it was clear you think the script of a movie, which are deliberately written to pull on heartstrings, somehow parallels reality.

They don't.

And I'm not interested in what happens in such scripts. Maybe that's why I don't watch movies. I'm interested in "reality".

 

[MarathonMike]

We are not talking about dismemberment burning or drowning for Christ's sake. Our adversaries have no problem with that whatsoever. Innocent lives are at stake here stop tying the hands of our intel experts that could really make a difference.

 

[Pogo]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Torture is not as simple as most people think it is. You have to involve more than just a fear of death. You have to make the target comfortable, and then strip them of their comfort for bad behavior, and have a nice friendly person who sees to the targets health and well being, who gives the target a chance to save themselves pain and discomfort by trading some information, and he engages the target with talk to see if the target has any other personal fears, hopes, or desires and then offers hope that these things can be attained after his release.

The torturers record everything that is said, and they use pain to set the mindset, dig for information, then to erase what the target said by replacing those memories with pain. The information is verified while the target is in captivity and rest. If he has lied, he loses comfort and dignity. If his information checks out, he is rewarded. in the next session, the same question are asked and then compared to the previous answers, rinse and repeat.

This process could take a long time, but waterboarding as the torture method can yield quick results as it is extremely unpleasant, making a person feel as though they are drowning.

As the uncooperative target loses comforts, he can be reduced to having no bed, a cold wet cell with his food being served in the same unwashed dish time after time. His food can be fowled and his water filthy. He can face other things that he personally finds frightening, such as close quarters if he is claustrophobic, spiders put in if he fears them also, etc. Once the target breaks down and pleads for better accommodations, he is an empty vessel.

Yes, it is cruel, but it can save a great many lives, and the target can walk away with all his fingers and toes intact.

That's a sadism fantasy. Doesn't work.