How Many Lives Would Have Been Saved Had we Tortured the Captured Paris Terrorist?

[Kat]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Torture is not as simple as most people think it is. You have to involve more than just a fear of death. You have to make the target comfortable, and then strip them of their comfort for bad behavior, and have a nice friendly person who sees to the targets health and well being, who gives the target a chance to save themselves pain and discomfort by trading some information, and he engages the target with talk to see if the target has any other personal fears, hopes, or desires and then offers hope that these things can be attained after his release.

The torturers record everything that is said, and they use pain to set the mindset, dig for information, then to erase what the target said by replacing those memories with pain. The information is verified while the target is in captivity and rest. If he has lied, he loses comfort and dignity. If his information checks out, he is rewarded. in the next session, the same question are asked and then compared to the previous answers, rinse and repeat.

This process could take a long time, but waterboarding as the torture method can yield quick results as it is extremely unpleasant, making a person feel as though they are drowning.

As the uncooperative target loses comforts, he can be reduced to having no bed, a cold wet cell with his food being served in the same unwashed dish time after time. His food can be fowled and his water filthy. He can face other things that he personally finds frightening, such as close quarters if he is claustrophobic, spiders put in if he fears them also, etc. Once the target breaks down and pleads for better accommodations, he is an empty vessel.

Yes, it is cruel, but it can save a great many lives, and the target can walk away with all his fingers and toes intact.

That's a sadism fantasy. Doesn't work.

How do YOU know?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Now of course WE told them THIS was happening, but oh no, WE were called "racists"....now, we sadly proven correct.

You know who Geert Wilders is? Yes or no? He's Dutch politician, leader of party leading in Dutch opinion polls, here is just one of his correct and sensible statements:

At some point we have to ignore the Marxists accusing us of racism and do what we know we have to do to protect our nation, our children and our people.

Wilders is a great guy, but I think he is not going to live much longer. He has stirred up a lot of people to see how things truly are.

 

[JimBowie1958]

That's a sadism fantasy. Doesn't work.

Of course it works moron. Stop confusing your favorite torture porn with real torture.

Totally different things, dude.

 

[Yarddog]

Zero.
Torture, aside from any ethical considerations, does not work. And we've known that for literally centuries.

Some people break, some dont. weve known that for centuries as well, but if you dont try , well your still in the Dark Ages with your info

 

[MACAULAY]

Don't know. Don't have enough info.

But, in the classic Dirty Harry Scenario....I'm down with Clint Eastwood every time.

You ah, do realize that's a movie ---- right?

________________

You do realize, asshole, that the movie sets up a moral dilemma ....to which I was obviously referring, and which you would have known if you weren't a butt-licker and a fool.

The dilemma being whether to torture an obviously guilty murderous lunatic to try to save an innocent young girl. You liberal pussies would protect the rights of the murderous lunatic and let the girl die. And, yes, you are about the worst pussy (and dumb-ass) on this board.

No I don't. I don't watch movies. But it was clear you think the script of a movie, which are deliberately written to pull on heartstrings, somehow parallels reality.

They don't.
____________


And I'm not interested in what happens in such scripts. Maybe that's why I don't watch movies. I'm interested in "reality".

___________

You Fool.

The very best of all art....is that which demonstrates "the human heart in conflict with itself."

Moral Dilemmas.

That quote is from a Mississippi boy named William Faulkner, but I know....you don't read either.

I have you pegged as a federal employee, probably post office, who spends much time on message boards (over 50,000 posts just here)...after you get tired of running your porn sites.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I tend to agree. One thing for sure, we would have a LOT more info than we do.

These guys work in cells, this is how they go undetected, they make sure no one knows about what they're doing other than a very small amount of people. They probably don't even know who their handlers are.

 

[Kat]

I tend to agree. One thing for sure, we would have a LOT more info than we do.

These guys work in cells, this is how they go undetected, they make sure no one knows about what they're doing other than a very small amount of people. They probably don't even know who their handlers are.

Now you may be correct there. I don't know...

 

[Yarddog]

I tend to agree. One thing for sure, we would have a LOT more info than we do.

These guys work in cells, this is how they go undetected, they make sure no one knows about what they're doing other than a very small amount of people. They probably don't even know who their handlers are.

Any bit of information is crucial no matter how small it seems. Its all collected and analized. Thats how they got Osama

 

[Pogo]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Torture is not as simple as most people think it is. You have to involve more than just a fear of death. You have to make the target comfortable, and then strip them of their comfort for bad behavior, and have a nice friendly person who sees to the targets health and well being, who gives the target a chance to save themselves pain and discomfort by trading some information, and he engages the target with talk to see if the target has any other personal fears, hopes, or desires and then offers hope that these things can be attained after his release.

The torturers record everything that is said, and they use pain to set the mindset, dig for information, then to erase what the target said by replacing those memories with pain. The information is verified while the target is in captivity and rest. If he has lied, he loses comfort and dignity. If his information checks out, he is rewarded. in the next session, the same question are asked and then compared to the previous answers, rinse and repeat.

This process could take a long time, but waterboarding as the torture method can yield quick results as it is extremely unpleasant, making a person feel as though they are drowning.

As the uncooperative target loses comforts, he can be reduced to having no bed, a cold wet cell with his food being served in the same unwashed dish time after time. His food can be fowled and his water filthy. He can face other things that he personally finds frightening, such as close quarters if he is claustrophobic, spiders put in if he fears them also, etc. Once the target breaks down and pleads for better accommodations, he is an empty vessel.

Yes, it is cruel, but it can save a great many lives, and the target can walk away with all his fingers and toes intact.

That's a sadism fantasy. Doesn't work.

How do YOU know?

Been down this road before, that's how. Especially in the Bush years.
It's been well known literally for centuries that torture doesn't work. Since at least the witch burnings where primitively repressed Euro males got their jollies by squeezing women's body parts until they burst, so that they would confess to being "witches". It's pure sadism, and it's sick.

But aside from that the purely practical side is that it's ineffective anyway. Always has been.

 

[Faun]

Clinton says torture doesnt work; nonsense, of course it works.

But I also think we could have gotten the information out of the captured terrorist and saved a lot of lives today.

What say the rest of you?

Oh, I like this game ...

How many lives would have been saved had we not fallen for LBJ's lie about the Gulf of Tonkin?

How many lives would have been saved if Bush had taken action in response to warnings prior to 9.11?

How many lives would have been saved had Bush not invaded Iraq?

How many lives would have been saved had Obama kept troops in Iraq?

 

[Kat]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Torture is not as simple as most people think it is. You have to involve more than just a fear of death. You have to make the target comfortable, and then strip them of their comfort for bad behavior, and have a nice friendly person who sees to the targets health and well being, who gives the target a chance to save themselves pain and discomfort by trading some information, and he engages the target with talk to see if the target has any other personal fears, hopes, or desires and then offers hope that these things can be attained after his release.

The torturers record everything that is said, and they use pain to set the mindset, dig for information, then to erase what the target said by replacing those memories with pain. The information is verified while the target is in captivity and rest. If he has lied, he loses comfort and dignity. If his information checks out, he is rewarded. in the next session, the same question are asked and then compared to the previous answers, rinse and repeat.

This process could take a long time, but waterboarding as the torture method can yield quick results as it is extremely unpleasant, making a person feel as though they are drowning.

As the uncooperative target loses comforts, he can be reduced to having no bed, a cold wet cell with his food being served in the same unwashed dish time after time. His food can be fowled and his water filthy. He can face other things that he personally finds frightening, such as close quarters if he is claustrophobic, spiders put in if he fears them also, etc. Once the target breaks down and pleads for better accommodations, he is an empty vessel.

Yes, it is cruel, but it can save a great many lives, and the target can walk away with all his fingers and toes intact.

That's a sadism fantasy. Doesn't work.

How do YOU know?

Been down this road before, that's how. Especially in the Bush years.
It's been well known literally for centuries that torture doesn't work. Since at least the witch burnings where primitively repressed Euro males got their jollies by squeezing women's body parts until they burst, so that they would confess to being "witches". It's pure sadism, and it's sick.

But aside from that the purely practical side is that it's ineffective anyway. Always has been.

pppffftttt we are not talking about every day life and living here. We are talking about people whose only goal is to kill us. When you volunteer to have you head chopped off you may have some credence with me. Until thien, I will listen to ones that have already been involved.

 

[Kat]

Clinton says torture doesnt work; nonsense, of course it works.

But I also think we could have gotten the information out of the captured terrorist and saved a lot of lives today.

What say the rest of you?

Oh, I like this game ...

How many lives would have been saved had we not fallen for LBJ's lie about the Gulf of Tonkin?

How many lives would have been saved if Bush had taken action in response to warning prior to 9.11?

How many lives would have been saved had Bush not invaded Iraq?

How many lives would have been saved had Obama kept troops in Iraq?

It may be a game to you, but the is not so to the ones murdered and maimed today.

OR in the past.

 

[Yarddog]

Clinton says torture doesnt work; nonsense, of course it works.

But I also think we could have gotten the information out of the captured terrorist and saved a lot of lives today.

What say the rest of you?

Clinton is correct.

There is no evidence torture will garner the desired results, or that any information obtained by torture is accurate or useful.

Torture is illegal.

When we torture, the terrorists win.

We as a people are better than that.

when terrorists kill hundreds and blow little kids leggs off they win. Torture doesnt have to be physical it could be phycological, but if cooercing someone out of information to stop them from killing more people is wrong, I dont know what ethics your following. People who do these things dont deserve your sympathy.

 

[Faun]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Torture is not as simple as most people think it is. You have to involve more than just a fear of death. You have to make the target comfortable, and then strip them of their comfort for bad behavior, and have a nice friendly person who sees to the targets health and well being, who gives the target a chance to save themselves pain and discomfort by trading some information, and he engages the target with talk to see if the target has any other personal fears, hopes, or desires and then offers hope that these things can be attained after his release.

The torturers record everything that is said, and they use pain to set the mindset, dig for information, then to erase what the target said by replacing those memories with pain. The information is verified while the target is in captivity and rest. If he has lied, he loses comfort and dignity. If his information checks out, he is rewarded. in the next session, the same question are asked and then compared to the previous answers, rinse and repeat.

This process could take a long time, but waterboarding as the torture method can yield quick results as it is extremely unpleasant, making a person feel as though they are drowning.

As the uncooperative target loses comforts, he can be reduced to having no bed, a cold wet cell with his food being served in the same unwashed dish time after time. His food can be fowled and his water filthy. He can face other things that he personally finds frightening, such as close quarters if he is claustrophobic, spiders put in if he fears them also, etc. Once the target breaks down and pleads for better accommodations, he is an empty vessel.

Yes, it is cruel, but it can save a great many lives, and the target can walk away with all his fingers and toes intact.

That's a sadism fantasy. Doesn't work.

How do YOU know?

John McCain was tortured for about 5 years and like many brave vets under similar situations, gave up no information. And that was using torture methods far worse than waterboarding.

 

[Kat]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Torture is not as simple as most people think it is. You have to involve more than just a fear of death. You have to make the target comfortable, and then strip them of their comfort for bad behavior, and have a nice friendly person who sees to the targets health and well being, who gives the target a chance to save themselves pain and discomfort by trading some information, and he engages the target with talk to see if the target has any other personal fears, hopes, or desires and then offers hope that these things can be attained after his release.

The torturers record everything that is said, and they use pain to set the mindset, dig for information, then to erase what the target said by replacing those memories with pain. The information is verified while the target is in captivity and rest. If he has lied, he loses comfort and dignity. If his information checks out, he is rewarded. in the next session, the same question are asked and then compared to the previous answers, rinse and repeat.

This process could take a long time, but waterboarding as the torture method can yield quick results as it is extremely unpleasant, making a person feel as though they are drowning.

As the uncooperative target loses comforts, he can be reduced to having no bed, a cold wet cell with his food being served in the same unwashed dish time after time. His food can be fowled and his water filthy. He can face other things that he personally finds frightening, such as close quarters if he is claustrophobic, spiders put in if he fears them also, etc. Once the target breaks down and pleads for better accommodations, he is an empty vessel.

Yes, it is cruel, but it can save a great many lives, and the target can walk away with all his fingers and toes intact.

That's a sadism fantasy. Doesn't work.

How do YOU know?

John McCain was tortured for about 5 years and like many brave vets under similar situations, gave up no information. And that was using torture methods far worse than waterboarding.

McCain.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I tend to agree. One thing for sure, we would have a LOT more info than we do.

These guys work in cells, this is how they go undetected, they make sure no one knows about what they're doing other than a very small amount of people. They probably don't even know who their handlers are.

Now you may be correct there. I don't know...

Attacks are far more likely to succeed when nobody knows anything, right?

 

[Kat]

I tend to agree. One thing for sure, we would have a LOT more info than we do.

These guys work in cells, this is how they go undetected, they make sure no one knows about what they're doing other than a very small amount of people. They probably don't even know who their handlers are.

Now you may be correct there. I don't know...

Attacks are far more likely to succeed when nobody knows anything, right?

Which would mean that we need to do all we can to know, right?

 

[S.J.]

I don't know if torturing the terrorists would have saved any lives but it would have made the terrorists suffer and that would be a good thing regardless of the outcome.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I tend to agree. One thing for sure, we would have a LOT more info than we do.

These guys work in cells, this is how they go undetected, they make sure no one knows about what they're doing other than a very small amount of people. They probably don't even know who their handlers are.

Any bit of information is crucial no matter how small it seems. Its all collected and analized. Thats how they got Osama

And took them how long? And Osama was known to the authorities where he was.

The reality is you're dealing with people who have no idea about other cells, they're getting smart, they've learned that all attacks must be done without information. They give some money to these guys, who is this person? No one knows, all done over the internet. Then they let them carry it out on their own, nothing gets out, the people above don't know it's coming.

 

[Yarddog]

Depends on how much he valued his life versus how much he valued 70 virgins...

Torture is not as simple as most people think it is. You have to involve more than just a fear of death. You have to make the target comfortable, and then strip them of their comfort for bad behavior, and have a nice friendly person who sees to the targets health and well being, who gives the target a chance to save themselves pain and discomfort by trading some information, and he engages the target with talk to see if the target has any other personal fears, hopes, or desires and then offers hope that these things can be attained after his release.

The torturers record everything that is said, and they use pain to set the mindset, dig for information, then to erase what the target said by replacing those memories with pain. The information is verified while the target is in captivity and rest. If he has lied, he loses comfort and dignity. If his information checks out, he is rewarded. in the next session, the same question are asked and then compared to the previous answers, rinse and repeat.

This process could take a long time, but waterboarding as the torture method can yield quick results as it is extremely unpleasant, making a person feel as though they are drowning.

As the uncooperative target loses comforts, he can be reduced to having no bed, a cold wet cell with his food being served in the same unwashed dish time after time. His food can be fowled and his water filthy. He can face other things that he personally finds frightening, such as close quarters if he is claustrophobic, spiders put in if he fears them also, etc. Once the target breaks down and pleads for better accommodations, he is an empty vessel.

Yes, it is cruel, but it can save a great many lives, and the target can walk away with all his fingers and toes intact.

That's a sadism fantasy. Doesn't work.

How do YOU know?

Been down this road before, that's how. Especially in the Bush years.
It's been well known literally for centuries that torture doesn't work. Since at least the witch burnings where primitively repressed Euro males got their jollies by squeezing women's body parts until they burst, so that they would confess to being "witches". It's pure sadism, and it's sick.

But aside from that the purely practical side is that it's ineffective anyway. Always has been.

ahhh yes, that torture was innefective, because they wern't really witches, and their torturers were only interested in inflicting pain. What does that have to do with whether or not there is another terrorist cell somewhere waiting to kill and injure more people. and by injuries go , lets equate them with the same level of pain you just mentioned inflicted by "Euro males" I notice you failed to mention th eway Africans and American indians tortured each other. Guess you just got it in for Europeans