CDZ How many things do anti gunners get wrong....let us count the ways...

[GaryDog]

Over and over we have seen what gun bans have done. None have prevented violence. This is an assault on our Constitution. And Hillary means business. She is going to pick right up where Obama left off.
Stand up for American this time. Vote Trump.

Please leave BHO alone.

He did not do anything about guns or gun ammo.

Hillary is with Bill on the assault weapons ban thing. It is a family value of theirs.

They just don't like AK's and AR's or their clones.

Wrong...he has appointed anti gun judges and increased taxes and fees on gun businesses......he also forced gun shops to sell guns to Mexican drug dealers in Fast and Furious....

Jesus, can you lie any more? The gunwalking program started under Bush.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The Irish Ram]

tell France....

 

[GaryDog]

tell France....

Oh, you mean the country with less than 1/3rd the gun death rate of the U.S.?

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[2aguy]

Over and over we have seen what gun bans have done. None have prevented violence. This is an assault on our Constitution. And Hillary means business. She is going to pick right up where Obama left off.
Stand up for American this time. Vote Trump.

Please leave BHO alone.

He did not do anything about guns or gun ammo.

Hillary is with Bill on the assault weapons ban thing. It is a family value of theirs.

They just don't like AK's and AR's or their clones.

Wrong...he has appointed anti gun judges and increased taxes and fees on gun businesses......he also forced gun shops to sell guns to Mexican drug dealers in Fast and Furious....

Jesus, can you lie any more? The gunwalking program started under Bush.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wrong.....the Gun Walker program was ended when they lost track of guns.....it was completely different from Fast and Furious..........which allowed guns to disappear into Mexico...with absoluteY no attempt to track them.....

 

[2aguy]

Over and over we have seen what gun bans have done. None have prevented violence. This is an assault on our Constitution. And Hillary means business. She is going to pick right up where Obama left off.
Stand up for American this time. Vote Trump.

tell Australia that.

Australia gun ownership is back to the level it was at before the ban...and they have also have an increasing rate of gun crime.....after they confiscated guns...and with their extreme gun control...

The only thing that has kept them from having mass shootings....the shooters in their shootings didn't shoot more people....

 

[2aguy]

tell France....

Oh, you mean the country with less than 1/3rd the gun death rate of the U.S.?

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You guys always believe that guns cause murder......every one of those countries has a criminal culture that commits las murder....even with access to guns......I have linked to story after story from Europe about how easy it is to get guns....they just don't use them for murder...

Then you have Mexico.......extreme gun control...and a higher gun murder rate than the U.S......and they are a border away from us......with all of our guns......and a lower fun murder rate...

Then the point you refuse to address...

1990s...200 million guns in private hands in the U.S.

2016... 357,000,000 guns in private hands....

The gun murder rate here went down....not up



Nothing you say is based in truth or reality.

 

[2aguy]

Over and over we have seen what gun bans have done. None have prevented violence. This is an assault on our Constitution. And Hillary means business. She is going to pick right up where Obama left off.
Stand up for American this time. Vote Trump.

Please leave BHO alone.

He did not do anything about guns or gun ammo.

Hillary is with Bill on the assault weapons ban thing. It is a family value of theirs.

They just don't like AK's and AR's or their clones.

Wrong...he has appointed anti gun judges and increased taxes and fees on gun businesses......he also forced gun shops to sell guns to Mexican drug dealers in Fast and Furious....

Jesus, can you lie any more? The gunwalking program started under Bush.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Guy.....you know nothing about the truth or reality........please..do some research...

Reasoned Politics: Wide Receiver vs. Fast and Furious

Let’s compare the two programs:

Cooperation with Mexico:
Wide Receiver: Mexican Law Enforcement notified, Mexico consented and was a full partner.
Fast and Furious: Mexico intentionally kept in the dark. No coordination or consent.

Surveillance of Firearms:
Wide Receiver: Agents attempted to keep track of the guns at all times.
Fast and Furious: Agents were ordered not to track the guns after they were purchased.

Use of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Extensive – placed in every lot of guns purchased
Fast and Furious: One “agent built” device in one gun

Performance of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Smugglers figured out how to defeat trackers
Fast and Furious: Smugglers didn’t have to do anything

Number of Firearms Sent to Cartels:
Wide Receiver: About 250
Fast and Furious: Exact number unknown, but over 2,500

Actions at the Border:
Wide Receiver: Attempted to hand off surveillance to Mexican law enforcement
Fast and Furious: ATF worked with Customs to make sure guns were not stopped at border

Reaction to guns “getting away”:
Wide Receiver: Program terminated. William Newell wrote memo saying “never again”
Fast and Furious: Program continued – recovered guns tracked and mapped.

Ironically, Wide Receiver provides an excellent example of a truly “botched sting operation”. The purpose of the Bush era programs was to track the guns to and over the border where Mexican law enforcement would make arrests. It was poorly planned and executed – but it at least has some potential to work and serve a law enforcement purpose. Make no mistake – Wide Receiver should result in heads rolling – but the program was not designed to send guns to the cartels.

Another point: Since the Phoenix ATF had experience with this kind of operation, why would they think that a program with many less safeguards would ever work?Why was such an operation begun with months of President Obama taking office and immediately after their bogus numbers on US retail sourced guns going to Mexico were exposed as false? Sadly, the answer is obvious.

In contrast, Fast and Furious was designed to pump guns into Mexico, without the knowledge of the Mexican government. Without their knowledge and cooperation, their was no chance of making arrests as a result of allowing guns to cross the border. Therefore, there was no law enforcement purpose. It was designed and executed for the purpose of sending guns from US retail outlets to the cartels. It was not a “botched sting operation” – it was a correctly executed plan with a very evil purpose.

This begs the question: What was the purpose of sending these guns into Mexico, where they were used to kill hundreds of Mexicans?

If one looks at what this could accomplish, the only answer on the table is the same one named by both the whistle blowing agents and the former head of the Pheonix DEA office who was “in the loop”: The passage of new gun control laws in the US.

If you still think these operations were “the same” or “used the same tactics” – please follow the link below and listen to Eric Holder tell you that the two programs were not similar.

 

[2aguy]

Over and over we have seen what gun bans have done. None have prevented violence. This is an assault on our Constitution. And Hillary means business. She is going to pick right up where Obama left off.
Stand up for American this time. Vote Trump.

tell Australia that.

Yes.....let's look at Australia.....

they confiscated guns.....and got nothing for it....

Part 2...guns in Australian suburbs..

Australia's hidden gun problem: the worst suburbs for gun crime | The New Daily

Melbourne’s northern and western suburbs are hotspots for firearms offenders and Sydney’s west has its problems too, according to previously unpublished data.

The Melbourne municipality of Hume, which takes in the suburbs of Broadmeadows, Gladstone Park and Jacana, has more firearms offenders than any other location in Australia’s two biggest cities, according to new police statistics.

And police blame Middle Eastern gangs for the latest unwelcome accolade for the hardscrabble area.

Part 1.....

Spike in handgun crimes reveals nation’s secret problem | The New Daily

Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country’s underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade.

Previously unseen police statistics show that the number of pistol-related offences doubled in Victoria and rose by 300 per cent in New South Wales. At least two other states also saw a massive jump in firearms-related offences during the same period.



An investigation by The New Daily unearthed previously unpublished data for firearms offences collected from police and crime statistics agencies in four states – Victoria, NSW, South Australia and Tasmania.

The statistics detail the types of firearms offences police have pursued in the courts in the past decade and show some concerning findings, including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period.



Taken together, the data suggests that despite our tough anti-gun laws, thousands of weapons are either being stolen or entering the country illegally.

Associate Professor Philip Alpers, one of Australia’s leading firearms researchers and a director of the Centre for Armed Violence Reduction at the University of Sydney, said the national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns.

“The ban on semi-automatics created demand by criminals for other types of guns,” he said, adding: “The criminal’s gun of choice today is the semi-automatic pistol.”



Our investigation found:

• NSW: in 2014-15, there were 3463 firearms charges, up 83 per cent on 2005-06

• Victoria: in 2014-15, there were 3645 firearms-related charges, up 85 per cent on 2005-06

• SA: in 2014, charges for possession and trafficking of guns are up 49 per cent on 2010-11

• Tasmania: in 2014, charges for unlawful gun possession were up 32 per cent on 2005-06

------------------

Although The New Daily has not been able to obtain data for Queensland and WA, the NSW statistics strongly suggest that the 12 months to the end of June 2011 was a turning point in the policing of Australia’s black market for firearms and ammunition.

In that year the charge count soared by almost 30 per cent in NSW, partly driven by a 61 per cent surge in charges for unauthorised possession of handguns. In the following year, the Victorian charge count also soared on the back of a 76 per cent blowout in ammunition-related charges.

 

[2aguy]

Over and over we have seen what gun bans have done. None have prevented violence. This is an assault on our Constitution. And Hillary means business. She is going to pick right up where Obama left off.
Stand up for American this time. Vote Trump.

tell Australia that.

Thanks for that.....it reminds me of another thin anti gunners are wrong about....

Australian gun laws stopped mass shootings in Australia.....

This is simply not true...bordering on a lie.......below I list all of the shootings post confiscation that would have been mass shootings if the shooter had killed 3 or more people.....since they had a gun and were actually shooting people...

the 3 person standard was created by obama...to increase the number of shootings that counted as mass public shootings, the original standard was 4...

Tell me GaryDog.....which of the Australian gun control laws kept these shootings from being mass public shootings...can you tell me which ones those would be?

Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

25 January 1996 – Hillcrest murders – Peter May shot and killed his three children, his estranged wife and her parents in the Brisbane suburb of Hillcrest before killing himself.[54]

• 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.

• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.

• • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.

• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]

• 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.

• 28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]

• 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[citation needed]

• 8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[citation needed]
• 9 September 2014 – Lockhart massacre – Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife, Kim, his 10-year-old son Fletcher, and his daughters Mia, eight and Phoebe, six before killing himself on a farm in Lockhart in the Riverina district near Wagga Wagga New South Wales. The body of Geoff Hunt and a firearm are later found in a dam on the farm by police divers and a suicide note written by Geoff Hunt is also found inside the house on the farm.[citation needed]

• 7 November 2014 – Jordy Brook carjacked a Channel 7 news cameraman at gun point during a crime spree on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. He was later captured and arrested by police after luring police on a high speed chase and crashing the car.[citation needed

• 15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]

• 27 June 2015 – Hermidale triple murder – the bodies of three people, two men and a woman are found shot dead on a property in a rural farming community in the town of Hermidale west of Nyngan, the bodies of 28-year-old Jacob Cumberland his father 59-year-old Stephen Cumberland and a 36-year-old woman were found with gun shot wounds, the body of Jacob Cumberland was found on the drive way of the property, the body of the 36-year-old woman was found in the backyard of the property and the body of Stephen Cumberland was found in a burnt out caravan on the property. 61-year-old Allan O'Connor is later arrested and charged with the murders.

• 10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.
• 
  
• 2 October 2015 - 2015 Parramatta shooting On 2 October 2015, Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, a 15-year-old boy, shot and killed Curtis Cheng, an unarmed police civilian finance worker, outside the New South Wales Police Force headquarters in Parramatta, Australia. Jabar was subsequently shot and killed by special constables who were protecting the police station.

 

[alang1216]

--The biggest thing the anti gunners have gotten wrong....

the entire premise of their argument against guns is that more guns will lead to more crime.

Speaking only for myself, my beef with guns is that you owning a gun does not make me feel any safer. In fact it is just the opposite. If I knew that you had to pass a rigorous training course, like the police do, and are screened so you're not a criminal or mentally ill, I feel different. In fact, I'd encourage everyone to take the training and pass the screening tests. You may know you're a good guy with a gun but I have no idea.

 

[2aguy]

Another thing they get wrong.....Europe is not gun free.......


Shooting In Sweden Immigrant Ghetto Shopping Mall — Gunman At Large

Breitbart London visited the Rosengård district, and the same central mall complex as today’s attack during a September 2015 investigation into the Europe migrant crisis and accompanying crime wave.

Fuelled by easy access to automatic assault weapons and grenades from former-Soviet Eastern European countries easily smuggled through Europe’s open borders, Malmo acquired the nickname of “Sweden’s Chicago” for its violent gun crime.

Rosengård’s police station used to be in the same mall where today’s shooting took place, but after it was found to be insufficiently bullet and bomb proof following attacks the location was moved to a new, state of the art fortress in the town. When Breitbart Londonvisited the station and the rest of Rosengård was a completely police-free zone.

Breitbart London spoke to former Malmo police Chief Superintendent Torsten Elofsson while visiting the city and he said crime in the city had increased out of all proportion over his last 20 years, blaming Europe’s freedom of movement laws which “has also brought criminality here… Gun and drug related crime has definitely increased. Until recently the possession of guns by criminals was very rare – now finding people with firearms is a daily occurrence here… most of the guns we seize are used in criminal activity, are held illegally, and are smuggled into Sweden”.

 

[2aguy]

They want to ban rifles with detachable magazines because they can kill people .......

Here you go...the updated table....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8



For 2014 included......


All rifles: 248 ------------(2013....285 (that means AR-15s kill even fewer than that))

Knives: 1,567-------------( 2013....1,490)

Hands and feet: 660----( 2013 .......687 )

Blunt objects: 435------ ( 2013....428)

And gun murders by rifle...been going down....

2008...380

2009...351

2010...367

2011...332

2012...298

2013...285

2014...248

After the assault ban was lifted in a country of over 320 million people with 90 million homes with guns

And over 5,000,000 AR-15s in private hands.........

5,000,000 legal AR-15s....less than 285 murders and we don't have the actual number for just AR-15s

..knife murders.....2009-2013.....



Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 - Crime in the United States 2009

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 - Crime in the United States 2008

murder by knife......

2004---1,866
2005---1,920
2006---1,830
2007---1,817
2008---1,888
2009----1,828
2010----1,732
2011----1,716
2012---1,604
2013---1,490
2014---1,567

Rifle murder....

2004---403
2005---445
2006---438
2007---453
2008---380
2009---351
2010---367
2011---332
2012---298
2013---285
2014---248

 

[2aguy]

--The biggest thing the anti gunners have gotten wrong....

the entire premise of their argument against guns is that more guns will lead to more crime.

Speaking only for myself, my beef with guns is that you owning a gun does not make me feel any safer. In fact it is just the opposite. If I knew that you had to pass a rigorous training course, like the police do, and are screened so you're not a criminal or mentally ill, I feel different. In fact, I'd encourage everyone to take the training and pass the screening tests. You may know you're a good guy with a gun but I have no idea.

You only feel that way because you are uninformed......have not studied the research and are making a judgement based on emotion....not the real world.

 

[alang1216]

You only feel that way because you are uninformed......have not studied the research and are making a judgement based on emotion....not the real world.

Probably all true. So tell me, if I see a guy I don't know, walking in my neighborhood and carrying an AR-15 what do I know for sure about this guy?

 

[2aguy]

You only feel that way because you are uninformed......have not studied the research and are making a judgement based on emotion....not the real world.

Probably all true. So tell me, if I see a guy I don't know, walking in my neighborhood and carrying an AR-15 what do I know for sure about this guy?

He is carrying an AR-15.

 

[2aguy]

You only feel that way because you are uninformed......have not studied the research and are making a judgement based on emotion....not the real world.

Probably all true. So tell me, if I see a guy I don't know, walking in my neighborhood and carrying an AR-15 what do I know for sure about this guy?

For the record....I think carrying a rifle unnecessarily is rude behavior....

But I have no problem with it.......

You are more likely to be killed if you see the guy walking in your neighborhood with a kitchen knife in his hands, they kill more people every single year than all rifles combined.

 

[2aguy]

You only feel that way because you are uninformed......have not studied the research and are making a judgement based on emotion....not the real world.

Probably all true. So tell me, if I see a guy I don't know, walking in my neighborhood and carrying an AR-15 what do I know for sure about this guy?

that night in France...Nice.....when that white truck was driving down the road.....if you were there, what would you have known for sure about that guy, driving the truck....( hint: the one that was used to murder 84 people)

 

[alang1216]

But I have no problem with it.......

You are more likely to be killed if you see the guy walking in your neighborhood with a kitchen knife in his hands, they kill more people every single year than all rifles combined.

Again, I don't disagree but I know as much about the gun carrier as I do about the knife carrier.

 

[alang1216]

that night in France...Nice.....when that white truck was driving down the road.....if you were there, what would you have known for sure about that guy, driving the truck....( hint: the one that was used to murder 84 people)

I don't recall if the truck was stolen or not but I'll assume here it wasn't and that he was driving legally, at least until he wasn't. To get any kind of drivers license you have to be able to prove you can operate the vehicle safely. That is not the case with guns, at least not here in VA.

 

[Pete7469]

Please leave BHO alone.

He did not do anything about guns or gun ammo.

Hillary is with Bill on the assault weapons ban thing. It is a family value of theirs.

They just don't like AK's and AR's or their clones.

Your beloved meat puppet faggot did everything he could to undermine the 2A, and Fast&Furious lead to untold numbers of innocent deaths for the sole purpose of demonizing such weapons.

Libturds across the board hate ALL weapons held in private hands that can be used to prevent the criminally insane totalitarian sociopaths from having absolute power. Their goals are exactly the opposite of "public safety". Their goals are complete subjugation.


You're just too stupid to grasp that reality.