CDZ How many things do anti gunners get wrong....let us count the ways...

[2aguy]

Fortunate that the right to keep and bear arms is not subject to you feeling more or less safe when exercised by someone else.

Quite right, I have little power but the NRA has alienated many people. Old saying: The tree that doesn't bend with the wind gets broken. This country and its constitution is always changing.

if those that seek more gun control were willing to compromise, perhaps the NRA would as well.
But, they aren't - rather than compromise. they demand acquiescence.

Are you joking?

The proposals offered by liberals for gun control are among the most watered down, impotent measures that anyone could conceive of. But the NRA's frothing screams in reply make them all sound like a quick road to confiscation.

What planet are you on?

They don't work......they are put forward as baby steps to the next level of gun control....after they don't work, they will call for the next level...and so on....they are boiling the frog...that is all they are doing.....

And gun registration is their penultimate goal...they need that to get banning and confiscation....just like Germany, Britain, and Australia...

 

[M14 Shooter]

thanks for the NRA approved nonsense.
the reality pre-heller"
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/pdf/07-290P.ZD
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/pdf/07-290P.ZD1

Interesting that neither of these are SCotUS ruling that oppose Heller.
Your point evaporates.

 

[alang1216]

Which does nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters........not one thing...but.....it is once again directed at normal, law abiding gun owners....which is why we don't trust people like you........

At least now you understand how it feels not to be able to trust others.

You want to get rid of the Right of people who own 356,991,876 million rifles which are not used in crime or to commit murder.........because you want to register guns...which leads to banning and confiscation...and training, which will again be used to limit access to a Right.

I would like to turn that right into a privilege, very much like driving a car. To drive a car you have to pass a very easy driving test or no drivers license. The test is so easy that almost everyone passes and gets to drive but at least they have demonstrated a minimum level of competence. Which is more than gun owners have to demonstrate.

I'm sorry but your slippery slope argument doesn't sway me. We register cars and that has not led to banning and confiscation. I'm not even in favor of banning and confiscation, I only want to know that that guy with a gun is a good guy and knows what he is doing. And the way things are, that is not the case.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Which does nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters........not one thing...but.....it is once again directed at normal, law abiding gun owners....which is why we don't trust people like you........

At least now you understand how it feels not to be able to trust others.

You want to get rid of the Right of people who own 356,991,876 million rifles which are not used in crime or to commit murder.........because you want to register guns...which leads to banning and confiscation...and training, which will again be used to limit access to a Right.

I would like to turn that right into a privilege, very much like driving a car.

Good luck with that amendment.

I'm sorry but your slippery slope argument doesn't sway me.

After you;re half way down the hill, its no longer a slippery slope argument.

 

[2aguy]

Which does nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters........not one thing...but.....it is once again directed at normal, law abiding gun owners....which is why we don't trust people like you........

At least now you understand how it feels not to be able to trust others.

You want to get rid of the Right of people who own 356,991,876 million rifles which are not used in crime or to commit murder.........because you want to register guns...which leads to banning and confiscation...and training, which will again be used to limit access to a Right.

I would like to turn that right into a privilege, very much like driving a car. To drive a car you have to pass a very easy driving test or no drivers license. The test is so easy that almost everyone passes and gets to drive but at least they have demonstrated a minimum level of competence. Which is more than gun owners have to demonstrate.

I'm sorry but your slippery slope argument doesn't sway me. We register cars and that has not led to banning and confiscation. I'm not even in favor of banning and confiscation, I only want to know that that guy with a gun is a good guy and knows what he is doing. And the way things are, that is not the case.

Yes...and just like your democrat ancestors....the Poll Tax on blacks voting was just a small fee...and they should have been happy to pay it......and like your democrat ancestors the Literacy test was very easy too....all you had to do as a free black was pass the test and you could vote.....almost anyone who could read could pass it....

Cars are not tools that keep criminals and corrupt governments in check......look at the border with Mexico....the Mexican police and military work with the drug cartels to murder unarmed Mexicans in the 10s of thousands.........right across our border......every single mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing happened to people who had no guns.......

Nothing you have suggested will let you know that the guy with gun is a good guy until he uses it to commit a crime....just like the people in Nice, France had no idea the muslim terrorist in the Truck was going to use it to murder 84 people and injure and maim hundreds of others.....

 

[alang1216]

Yes...and just like your democrat ancestors....the Poll Tax on blacks voting was just a small fee...and they should have been happy to pay it......and like your democrat ancestors the Literacy test was very easy too....all you had to do as a free black was pass the test and you could vote.....almost anyone who could read could pass it....

First, please spare me your revisionist history of the Democratic party. Current court verdicts on GOP voter id laws show where the parties stand today.

Second spare me your ideological purity, the poll tax and Literacy tests were practical means to disenfranchise blacks. Gun registration, of itself is neutral. The only thing you are worried about is where it might lead. But in a democracy where both gun lovers and haters can vote why would you worry about making your case for gun ownership? If logic and reason are on your side you should have no trouble making an effective case to the electorate and shouldn't have to worry about those of us who would restrict ownership. Seems to me you are hiding behind the 2nd.

Cars are not tools that keep criminals and corrupt governments in check......look at the border with Mexico....the Mexican police and military work with the drug cartels to murder unarmed Mexicans in the 10s of thousands.........right across our border......every single mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing happened to people who had no guns.......

As I recall there was a security guard at the Orlando club that was armed but outgunned. Are you advocating an arms race?

Nothing you have suggested will let you know that the guy with gun is a good guy until he uses it to commit a crime....just like the people in Nice, France had no idea the muslim terrorist in the Truck was going to use it to murder 84 people and injure and maim hundreds of others.....

If I see a cop I assume he is a good guy with a gun but he could be some nut dressed as a cop, would you prefer cops to not wear uniforms? No solution will ever be 100% but that doesn't mean we should not take partial steps.

 

[2aguy]

Yes...and just like your democrat ancestors....the Poll Tax on blacks voting was just a small fee...and they should have been happy to pay it......and like your democrat ancestors the Literacy test was very easy too....all you had to do as a free black was pass the test and you could vote.....almost anyone who could read could pass it....

First, please spare me your revisionist history of the Democratic party. Current court verdicts on GOP voter id laws show where the parties stand today.

Second spare me your ideological purity, the poll tax and Literacy tests were practical means to disenfranchise blacks. Gun registration, of itself is neutral. The only thing you are worried about is where it might lead. But in a democracy where both gun lovers and haters can vote why would you worry about making your case for gun ownership? If logic and reason are on your side you should have no trouble making an effective case to the electorate and shouldn't have to worry about those of us who would restrict ownership. Seems to me you are hiding behind the 2nd.

Cars are not tools that keep criminals and corrupt governments in check......look at the border with Mexico....the Mexican police and military work with the drug cartels to murder unarmed Mexicans in the 10s of thousands.........right across our border......every single mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing happened to people who had no guns.......

As I recall there was a security guard at the Orlando club that was armed but outgunned. Are you advocating an arms race?

Nothing you have suggested will let you know that the guy with gun is a good guy until he uses it to commit a crime....just like the people in Nice, France had no idea the muslim terrorist in the Truck was going to use it to murder 84 people and injure and maim hundreds of others.....

If I see a cop I assume he is a good guy with a gun but he could be some nut dressed as a cop, would you prefer cops to not wear uniforms? No solution will ever be 100% but that doesn't mean we should not take partial steps.

Every country in the world asks for i.d. to vote...spare me the crap......

But in a democracy where both gun lovers and haters can vote why would you worry about making your case for gun ownership?

Because the liars poll the uninformed........facts don't matter when you drag the body of a dead child in front of the cameras......just like universal background checks.......90% of those polled support them....and 90% don't realize that universal background checks do nothing to stop crime or mass shootings...but...it sounds good...because they are uninformed. If logic and reason won the day obama would never have been elected....

Rifles with detachable magazines killed 157 people in 34 years in mass public shootings.....knives kill well over 1,500 people every single year...but there are people who think rifles are a major problem in this country...so logic and reason are not being used......

The Orlando guard retreated to call for backup.....I am calling for law abiding people to be able to carry guns....the security guard left 300 unarmed people to face the attacker.....

And before you fall back on the tired...."you want drunk people to have guns..." 40 states allow people to carry guns in places that serve alcohol, and Virginia last year passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars...and their bar crime rate dropped 5.9%............

If I see a cop I assume he is a good guy with a gun but he could be some nut dressed as a cop, would you prefer cops to not wear uniforms? No solution will ever be 100% but that doesn't mean we should not take partial steps.

When the "partial" step does nothing, and only makes it harder on normal, law abiding gun owners then that partial step is unnecessary, and pointless............

 

[2aguy]

Yes...and just like your democrat ancestors....the Poll Tax on blacks voting was just a small fee...and they should have been happy to pay it......and like your democrat ancestors the Literacy test was very easy too....all you had to do as a free black was pass the test and you could vote.....almost anyone who could read could pass it....

First, please spare me your revisionist history of the Democratic party. Current court verdicts on GOP voter id laws show where the parties stand today.

Second spare me your ideological purity, the poll tax and Literacy tests were practical means to disenfranchise blacks. Gun registration, of itself is neutral. The only thing you are worried about is where it might lead. But in a democracy where both gun lovers and haters can vote why would you worry about making your case for gun ownership? If logic and reason are on your side you should have no trouble making an effective case to the electorate and shouldn't have to worry about those of us who would restrict ownership. Seems to me you are hiding behind the 2nd.

Cars are not tools that keep criminals and corrupt governments in check......look at the border with Mexico....the Mexican police and military work with the drug cartels to murder unarmed Mexicans in the 10s of thousands.........right across our border......every single mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing happened to people who had no guns.......

As I recall there was a security guard at the Orlando club that was armed but outgunned. Are you advocating an arms race?

Nothing you have suggested will let you know that the guy with gun is a good guy until he uses it to commit a crime....just like the people in Nice, France had no idea the muslim terrorist in the Truck was going to use it to murder 84 people and injure and maim hundreds of others.....

If I see a cop I assume he is a good guy with a gun but he could be some nut dressed as a cop, would you prefer cops to not wear uniforms? No solution will ever be 100% but that doesn't mean we should not take partial steps.

And democrat Poll Taxes and literacy tests kept blacks from voting.....registration fees and taxes make it harder for minorities and other poor people in the U.S. to get guns...criminals have no problem.....it is not a coincidence.....anti gunners will do any thing to deny guns to as many people as possible.....

 

[alang1216]

Every country in the world asks for i.d. to vote...spare me the crap......

Reality Check:

IF IT walks, quacks and swims like a duck, the saying goes, then it probably is a duck. On July 29th, three judges on the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals used essentially this reasoning when they issued an 83-page ruling saying it is no accident that North Carolina’s voting law looks, sounds and functions like an effort to suppress the voices of black voters. Many provisions of the 2013 bill “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision”, Judge Diana Motz wrote. North Carolina Republicans’ “true motivation” behind the law, she went on, was not to combat voter fraud but to keep reliably Democratic black voters—a "major electoral force" whose "registration and turnout rates had finally reached near-parity" with those of whites—away from the polls.​

But in a democracy where both gun lovers and haters can vote why would you worry about making your case for gun ownership?

Because the liars poll the uninformed........facts don't matter when you drag the body of a dead child in front of the cameras......just like universal background checks.......90% of those polled support them....and 90% don't realize that universal background checks do nothing to stop crime or mass shootings...but...it sounds good...because they are uninformed. If logic and reason won the day obama would never have been elected....

Sorry but you can't accuse people of being uninformed about guns if the gun lobby has used it's political muscle to KEEP people uninformed:

Called the Dickey Amendment after Rep. Jay Dickey, a Republican from Arkansas who served from 1993 to 2001, the amendment is often called a ban, but it did allow for research on injuries or deaths from firearms. However, Lenard pointed out that after the amendment, Congress cut funding for the CDC by the exact amount that had been spent on gun research in the year before. While that $2.6 million in funding was eventually restored, it was earmarked for traumatic brain injury research, according to a 2013 article in The Journal of the American Medical Association.​

It's like killing your parents and then asking for leniency because you're an orphan.

Maybe if we demanded training and screenings and had real research and collected comprehensive statistics I wouldn't feel nervous when I see someone with a gun. But I do and if the gun lobby is to blame that is on them.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Maybe if we demanded training and screenings....

What other fundamental right specifically protected by Constitution would you allow (not require,, but agree to the constitutionally of) a requirement for and training before it can be exercised?

and had real research and collected comprehensive statistics...

What statistics do you think you do not already have?
What questions do you thin the CDC can answer?

 

[alang1216]

What other fundamental right specifically protected by Constitution would you allow (not require,, but agree to the constitutionally of) a requirement for and training before it can be exercised?

I'm not sure where I stand on militias but I'm not a proponent of guns as an individual right. Those are the only ones that come to mind.

and had real research and collected comprehensive statistics...

What statistics do you think you do not already have?
What questions do you thin the CDC can answer?

gun violence — what causes it, what its consequences are for surviving families, how to stop it
gun safety -- can we make gun storage and use safer

With approximately 30,000 men, women and children dying each year at the barrel of a gun it seems a reasonable thing to research.

I'm not alone here, a coalition of 141 medical organizations sent a letter to four senior members of the House and Senate Appropriations Committees urging them to restore funding for gun violence research at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What other fundamental right specifically protected by Constitution would you allow (not require,, but agree to the constitutionally of) a requirement for and training before it can be exercised?

I'm not sure where I stand on militias but I'm not a proponent of guns as an individual right. Those are the only ones that come to mind.

and had real research and collected comprehensive statistics...

What statistics do you think you do not already have?
What questions do you thin the CDC can answer?

gun violence — what causes it, what its consequences are for surviving families, how to stop it
gun safety -- can we make gun storage and use safer

With approximately 30,000 men, women and children dying each year at the barrel of a gun it seems a reasonable thing to research.

I'm not alone here, a coalition of 141 medical organizations sent a letter to four senior members of the House and Senate Appropriations Committees urging them to restore funding for gun violence research at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Take suicides out of your numbers if you want to be taken seriously

 

[alang1216]

Take suicides out of your numbers if you want to be taken seriously

Why? Shouldn't we be trying to decrease the number of suicides?

 

[M14 Shooter]

What other fundamental right specifically protected by Constitution would you allow (not require,, but agree to the constitutionally of) a requirement for and training before it can be exercised?

I'm not sure where I stand on militias but I'm not a proponent of guns as an individual right. Those are the only ones that come to mind.

Why would you oppose training and screening for the exercise of, say the right to vote, or the freedom of the press?
As I said before: Good luck with that amendment.

What statistics do you think you do not already have?
What questions do you thin the CDC can answer?

gun violence — what causes it, what its consequences are for surviving families, how to stop it
gun safety -- can we make gun storage and use safer

And how do you not have that information now?

 

[GaryDog]

What other fundamental right specifically protected by Constitution would you allow (not require,, but agree to the constitutionally of) a requirement for and training before it can be exercised?

I'm not sure where I stand on militias but I'm not a proponent of guns as an individual right. Those are the only ones that come to mind.

and had real research and collected comprehensive statistics...

What statistics do you think you do not already have?
What questions do you thin the CDC can answer?

gun violence — what causes it, what its consequences are for surviving families, how to stop it
gun safety -- can we make gun storage and use safer

With approximately 30,000 men, women and children dying each year at the barrel of a gun it seems a reasonable thing to research.

I'm not alone here, a coalition of 141 medical organizations sent a letter to four senior members of the House and Senate Appropriations Committees urging them to restore funding for gun violence research at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Take suicides out of your numbers if you want to be taken seriously

Australia dramatically reduced suicides with gun control. Depression is a real illness and it can be fatal. It's less likely to be fatal if guns are not involved. This has been proven time and time again.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Take suicides out of your numbers if you want to be taken seriously

Why? Shouldn't we be trying to decrease the number of suicides?

Sure.
How can gun control do this?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Australia dramatically reduced suicides with gun control.

Specifically how?
Be sure to cite the relevant legislation and the proven effect of same.

 

[GaryDog]

Australia dramatically reduced suicides with gun control.

Specifically how?
Be sure to cite the relevant legislation and the proven effect of same.

Seizure of semi-automatic weapons, safe storage laws, 28-day waiting period on gun purchases, written justification for buying a gun.

Unless you're from a different planet, it's pretty easy to see that guns are the most effective and painless form of suicide out there. Accordingly, not having as easy access to such a method often leads to people getting treatment for depression rather than ending their life.

 

[hunarcy]

What other fundamental right specifically protected by Constitution would you allow (not require,, but agree to the constitutionally of) a requirement for and training before it can be exercised?

I'm not sure where I stand on militias but I'm not a proponent of guns as an individual right. Those are the only ones that come to mind.

and had real research and collected comprehensive statistics...

What statistics do you think you do not already have?
What questions do you thin the CDC can answer?

gun violence — what causes it, what its consequences are for surviving families, how to stop it
gun safety -- can we make gun storage and use safer

With approximately 30,000 men, women and children dying each year at the barrel of a gun it seems a reasonable thing to research.

I'm not alone here, a coalition of 141 medical organizations sent a letter to four senior members of the House and Senate Appropriations Committees urging them to restore funding for gun violence research at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Take suicides out of your numbers if you want to be taken seriously

Australia dramatically reduced suicides with gun control. Depression is a real illness and it can be fatal. It's less likely to be fatal if guns are not involved. This has been proven time and time again.

Guess you're wrong. Highest Australian suicide rate in 13 years driven by men aged 40 to 44

 

[M14 Shooter]

Australia dramatically reduced suicides with gun control.

Specifically how?
Be sure to cite the relevant legislation and the proven effect of same.

Seizure of semi-automatic weapons, safe storage laws, 28-day waiting period on gun purchases, written justification for buying a gun.

How do any of these things prevent suicide, or suicide w/ a gun?
If you already have a gun, won't you use it?
If you really want to kill yourself a gun, won;t you wait?
If you have committed to killing yourself, won't you find another way?
What % of Oz suicides are w/ a gun?
What was he % before the gun laws changed?
How does banning semi-autos make any difference?