CDZ How many things do anti gunners get wrong....let us count the ways...

[GaryDog]

Australia dramatically reduced suicides with gun control.

Specifically how?
Be sure to cite the relevant legislation and the proven effect of same.

Seizure of semi-automatic weapons, safe storage laws, 28-day waiting period on gun purchases, written justification for buying a gun.

How do any of these tings prevent suicide, or suicide w/ a gun?

By limiting access to them and/or making people wait (cool off)? Why are you willfully misunderstanding this?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Australia dramatically reduced suicides with gun control.

Specifically how?
Be sure to cite the relevant legislation and the proven effect of same.

Seizure of semi-automatic weapons, safe storage laws, 28-day waiting period on gun purchases, written justification for buying a gun.

How do any of these tings prevent suicide, or suicide w/ a gun?

By limiting access to them and/or making people wait (cool off)? Why are you willfully misunderstanding this?

Your probably did not see my edit.

How do any of these things prevent suicide, or suicide w/ a gun?
If you already have a gun, won't you use it?
If you really want to kill yourself a gun, won;t you wait?
If you have committed to killing yourself, won't you find another way?
What % of Oz suicides are w/ a gun?
What was the % before the gun laws changed?
How does banning semi-autos make any difference?

 

[alang1216]

Why would you oppose training and screening for the exercise of, say the right to vote, or the freedom of the press?
As I said before: Good luck with that amendment.

Neither right you refer to is absolute. Not just anyone can vote, you have residency and age restrictions. Likewise the freedom of the press has restrictions like national security or privacy. Guns deserve the same treatment even if they remain a right.

And how do you not have that information now?

Because for 15 years, the CDC has avoided comprehensive research on one of the top causes of death in the U.S.: firearms.

 

[alang1216]

Shouldn't we be trying to decrease the number of suicides?

Sure.
How can gun control do this?

Excellent question. Another excellent question is why doesn't the gun lobby want us to find out?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why would you oppose training and screening for the exercise of, say the right to vote, or the freedom of the press?
As I said before: Good luck with that amendment.

Neither right you refer to is absolute. Not just anyone can vote, you have residency and age restrictions. Likewise the freedom of the press has restrictions like national security or privacy. Guns deserve the same treatment even if they remain a right.

The right to gun ownership already has the same restrictions as these rights -- you seek additional restrictions..
Why should these additional restriction be levied against the rights in question?

And how do you not have that information now?

Because for 15 years, the CDC has avoided comprehensive research on one of the top causes of death in the U.S.: firearms.

You said you wanted info:
gun violence — what causes it, what its consequences are for surviving families, how to stop it
gun safety -- can we make gun storage and use safer
Why do you think this information is unavailable? Have you looked?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Shouldn't we be trying to decrease the number of suicides?

Sure.
How can gun control do this?

Excellent question.

Glad you agree. Do you have an answer?

 

[GaryDog]

Australia dramatically reduced suicides with gun control.

Specifically how?
Be sure to cite the relevant legislation and the proven effect of same.

Seizure of semi-automatic weapons, safe storage laws, 28-day waiting period on gun purchases, written justification for buying a gun.

How do any of these tings prevent suicide, or suicide w/ a gun?

By limiting access to them and/or making people wait (cool off)? Why are you willfully misunderstanding this?

Your probably did not see my edit.

How do any of these things prevent suicide, or suicide w/ a gun?
If you already have a gun, won't you use it?
If you really want to kill yourself a gun, won;t you wait?
If you have committed to killing yourself, won't you find another way?
What % of Oz suicides are w/ a gun?
What was the % before the gun laws changed?
How does banning semi-autos make any difference?

I see, you're arguing for why more stringent gun control is necessary. Agreed.

 

[alang1216]

The right to gun ownership already has the same restrictions as these rights -- you seek additional restrictions..
Why should these additional restriction be levied against the rights in question?

What additional restrictions have I proposed? I want it converted from a right to a privilege. If you mean I want to restrict guns to responsible adults who have been trained to use them then you're right.

You said you wanted info:
gun violence — what causes it, what its consequences are for surviving families, how to stop it
gun safety -- can we make gun storage and use safer
Why do you think this information is unavailable? Have you looked?

I haven't encountered it, not that I'd know what to make of raw data. Have there been studies you can point me to?

 

[alang1216]

Glad you agree. Do you have an answer?

If I had an answer I wouldn't propose we study the problem.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Specifically how?
Be sure to cite the relevant legislation and the proven effect of same.

Seizure of semi-automatic weapons, safe storage laws, 28-day waiting period on gun purchases, written justification for buying a gun.

How do any of these tings prevent suicide, or suicide w/ a gun?

By limiting access to them and/or making people wait (cool off)? Why are you willfully misunderstanding this?

Your probably did not see my edit.

How do any of these things prevent suicide, or suicide w/ a gun?
If you already have a gun, won't you use it?
If you really want to kill yourself a gun, won;t you wait?
If you have committed to killing yourself, won't you find another way?
What % of Oz suicides are w/ a gun?
What was the % before the gun laws changed?
How does banning semi-autos make any difference?

I see, you're arguing for why more stringent gun control is necessary. Agreed.

I see: You aren't willing to have an honest discussion. Agreed.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The right to gun ownership already has the same restrictions as these rights -- you seek additional restrictions..
Why should these additional restriction be levied against the rights in question?

What additional restrictions have I proposed? I want it converted from a right to a privilege.

You don't recognize this, in and of itself, as a significant restriction on the right to arms?
Aside from that: You want to see training ans screening requirements.
Why should these additional restriction not be levied against the right to vote or the free press?

I haven't encountered it, not that I'd know what to make of raw data.

Then, honestly..,. in insisting that the CDC be allowed to study these things, aren't you toeing the line?
Just taking someone's word that the info isn't already out there?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Glad you agree. Do you have an answer?

If I had an answer I wouldn't propose we study the problem.

You do not understand. I'm asking for the mechanic.
How, mechanically, can gun control, limit the number of suicides?

 

[alang1216]

Aside from that: You want to see training ans screening requirements.
Why should these additional restriction not be levied against the right to vote or the free press?

I'm more than willing to accept that some voter walking down the street may cast a vote I don't approve of but I'm willing to live with it rather than try and inflict my opinion on him. Same thing with the free press, neither make me apprehensive about my right to life.

I haven't encountered it, not that I'd know what to make of raw data.

Then, honestly..,. in insisting that the CDC be allowed to study these things, aren't you toeing the line?
Just taking someone's word that the info isn't already out there?

Absolutely. I usually will bow to experts in the field, especially since I don't feel the NIH has a political axe to grind. They are mostly scientists and I like science.

 

[alang1216]

You do not understand. I'm asking for the mechanic.
How, mechanically, can gun control, limit the number of suicides?

No you do not understand. I said I like science and the way science works is you find and study a problem, hopefully some experimentation is involved, and then, with luck, you learn something new.

Neither of us know if there is a way, mechanically or otherwise, of limiting the number of gun suicides, the difference between us is that I want to find out.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Aside from that: You want to see training ans screening requirements.
Why should these additional restriction not be levied against the right to vote or the free press?

I'm more than willing to accept that some voter walking down the street may cast a vote I don't approve of but I'm willing to live with it rather than try and inflict my opinion on him. Same thing with the free press, neither make me apprehensive about my right to life.

This only means you do not recognize the power of the ballot or the press, and how dangerous abuse/misuse of that power can be.

Then, honestly..,. in insisting that the CDC be allowed to study these things, aren't you toeing the line?
Just taking someone's word that the info isn't already out there?

Absolutely.

Good to know you gleefully and blindly follow the directions of those you think know more than you can.
Have you heard the term "useful idiot"?

 

[M14 Shooter]

You do not understand. I'm asking for the mechanic.
How, mechanically, can gun control, limit the number of suicides?

No you do not understand. I said I like science and the way science works is you find and study a problem, hopefully some experimentation is involved, and then, with luck, you learn something new.
Neither of us know if there is a way, mechanically or otherwise, of limiting the number of gun suicides, the difference between us is that I want to find out.

You STILL do not understand.
How can gun control - background checks, licensing, registration, training, whatever - prevent someone from killing themselves?

 

[alang1216]

Good to know you gleefully and blindly follow the directions of those you think know more than you can.
Have you heard the term "useful idiot"?

Sorry to break it to you but we are all "useful idiots" to one degree or another. If a weatherman that you know and trust, tells you it is going to rain do you attempt to gather your own meteorological data and make your own prediction? BTW, my neighbor works for the NIH so I'm not blind to it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Take suicides out of your numbers if you want to be taken seriously

Why? Shouldn't we be trying to decrease the number of suicides?

Suicide is a choice not a crime and you cannot prove in any way that a person will not commit suicide if they do not have access to a gun.
I can prove that half of all suicides are not committed with a gun.

So tell me how do you know that anyone who commits suicide with a gun won't just do it another of the countless ways available to them?

Suicide is a completely different issue than guns and gun crimes

 

[alang1216]

You STILL do not understand.
How can gun control - background checks, licensing, registration, training, whatever - prevent someone from killing themselves?

You don't seem able to accept that I don't have an answer for you, no matter how many times you ask the same question. Just because we don't know the answer doesn't mean one doesn't exist. I also don't know what dark matter is, does that mean science shouldn't study it? Is there any other area of study you'd care to halt or is it just on guns?

 

[alang1216]

Suicide is a choice not a crime and you cannot prove in any way that a person will not commit suicide if they do not have access to a gun.
I can prove that half of all suicides are not committed with a gun.

So tell me how do you know that anyone who commits suicide with a gun won't just do it another of the countless ways available to them?

Several studies now confirm that suicide is often a decision made suddenly. If the moment somehow passes safely, the evidence suggests, lives can be saved in the short and long term.

Suicide is a completely different issue than guns and gun crimes

No doubt but both fall under the umbrella of gun safety so the solutions be not be so different. Isn't it worth some effort to save some of the 30,000 lives lost to guns each year? Even if you can't save every life I think we should at very least study the problem and not forbid research as the gun lobby desires.