CDZ How many things do anti gunners get wrong....let us count the ways...

[alang1216]

My values are just that, mine. You may not agree or approve but you don't have the authority to proclaim them right or wrong.

The Constitution protects my rights to bear arms, and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with you, your opinion, my authority, nor what the heck you may or may not think is right or wrong.

The Constitution comes from the people as such it is subject to their approval.

 

[Hiryuu]

No right is absolute, all come with restrictions. Those restrictions should be the minimum necessary balance their use and abuse.

Then quit abusing your perceived right to infringe upon the liberties of others.

 

[alang1216]

So let's keep looking.

You can look all you want, just don't touch.

Again you try to exercise authority you don't have.

 

[Hiryuu]

The Constitution comes from the people as such it is subject to their approval.

It protects the rights of the people, and if we are just going to start throwing other peoples' rights away because it sounds like a good idea, we can throw your right to have a say-so away first.

 

[alang1216]

No right is absolute, all come with restrictions. Those restrictions should be the minimum necessary balance their use and abuse.

Then quit abusing your perceived right to infringe upon the liberties of others.

Every liberty can infringe the liberty of others.

 

[Hiryuu]

Again you try to exercise authority you don't have.

I am not exercising any authority, it is our Constitution.

 

[Hiryuu]

Every liberty can infringe the liberty of others.

Agreed, you can volunteer to give up yours first.

 

[alang1216]

The Constitution comes from the people as such it is subject to their approval.

It protects the rights of the people, and if we are just going to start throwing other peoples' rights a way because it sounds like a good idea, we can throw your right to have a say-so away first.

Unfortunately that is not the way it works in the real world

 

[alang1216]

Again you try to exercise authority you don't have.

I am not exercising any authority, it is our Constitution.

The very document that says how to change it.

Bye for now.

 

[Hiryuu]

Unfortunately that is not the way it works in the real world

No, I am afraid you are mistaken on how it works in the real world.

 

[Hiryuu]

The very document that says how to change it.

Bye for now.

Then go about changing it, and don't worry about peddling minutia here.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Suicide is a choice not a crime and you cannot prove in any way that a person will not commit suicide if they do not have access to a gun.
I can prove that half of all suicides are not committed with a gun.

So tell me how do you know that anyone who commits suicide with a gun won't just do it another of the countless ways available to them?

Several studies now confirm that suicide is often a decision made suddenly. If the moment somehow passes safely, the evidence suggests, lives can be saved in the short and long term.

Suicide is a completely different issue than guns and gun crimes

No doubt but both fall under the umbrella of gun safety so the solutions be not be so different. Isn't it worth some effort to save some of the 30,000 lives lost to guns each year? Even if you can't save every life I think we should at very least study the problem and not forbid research as the gun lobby desires.

Gun safety and suicide are not related
suicide is a conscious choice and takes a deliberate act

Sure study suicide but don't call it a gun control issue because it's not

My stance on suicide is that it is a choice. it is not illegal. And no one has the right to tell another person they can't decide for themselves whther to live or die

 

[alang1216]

Gun safety and suicide are not related
suicide is a conscious choice and takes a deliberate act

Sure study suicide but don't call it a gun control issue because it's not

My stance on suicide is that it is a choice. it is not illegal. And no one has the right to tell another person they can't decide for themselves whther to live or die

I wonder how much you know about the subject. There are certainly people who make a rational decision, e.g., terminally patients, but for most it is precipitated by a mental disorder. Meaning it is not a conscious choice, after all you wouldn't say a toddler that falls out a window chose to die.

You are correct that it is a gun safety issue. If there were no more guns the successful suicide rate would likely fall, at least somewhat. A rather extreme proposal but if we could somehow prevent guns from getting into the hands of a potential suicide (don't ask me how, I have no idea) without too much impact on legitimate gun owners I think that would be something worth doing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Gun safety and suicide are not related
suicide is a conscious choice and takes a deliberate act

Sure study suicide but don't call it a gun control issue because it's not

My stance on suicide is that it is a choice. it is not illegal. And no one has the right to tell another person they can't decide for themselves whther to live or die

I wonder how much you know about the subject. There are certainly people who make a rational decision, e.g., terminally patients, but for most it is precipitated by a mental disorder. Meaning it is not a conscious choice, after all you wouldn't say a toddler that falls out a window chose to die.

You are correct that it is a gun safety issue. If there were no more guns the successful suicide rate would likely fall, at least somewhat. A rather extreme proposal but if we could somehow prevent guns from getting into the hands of a potential suicide (don't ask me how, I have no idea) without too much impact on legitimate gun owners I think that would be something worth doing.

You cannot compare an accident to suicide.

And It's not up to me or you for that matter to presume that people who commit suicide are mentally ill.

It is an assumption that a person must be wrong in the head to want to die. I won't make that assumption

Every person has the absolute right to decide whether they live or die. I have no right to tell them otherwise and neither do you

 

[alang1216]

You cannot compare an accident to suicide.

And It's not up to me or you for that matter to presume that people who commit suicide are mentally ill.

It is an assumption that a person must be wrong in the head to want to die. I won't make that assumption

Every person has the absolute right to decide whether they live or die. I have no right to tell them otherwise and neither do you

Allow me share a personal anecdote (please don't tell anyone).

My father, a man with no mental issues was diagnosed with cataracts. He managed to convince himself he was going blind and attempted to kill himself with a overdose of pills. The success rate for pills is about 2%, the percent with a gun is 89%. He survived the attempt, had the surgery, and lived another 20 or so good years. I'm sure he never regretted surviving. Was he in his right mind when he attempted suicide? If he had used a gun he likely would have missed out on 20 years of life.

 

[JimBowie1958]

While the AR-15 and AK-14 designs and their clones become more and more popular with gun enthusiasts and criminals, they also become more hated by non-gun owning peoples.

This is a reality that will come to a head sometime soon.

If Hillary gets a super majority in the Senate and control of the House she can pass another assault weapons ban like the last one that Bill passed. The GOP would only pass it with a sunset clause on it last time. It sunset during GW's presidency and the GOP by then would not renew it.

It would not be overturned by the SCOTUS because the 8 of them refused to hear a similar local ban recently and so they let the local ban stand.

And Hillary won't be stacking the Court with strict constructionists. She will try to stack it with judicial activists like Ginsberg, who was appointed by her hubby.

If McConnell can keep control of the Senate then he can prevent any new SCOTUS appointments and the Court will eventually trickle down (Reagan's favorite word) to 7 -- and then as long as Kennedy stays on the Court it will be a balanced court between strict constructionist and judicial activists with Kennedy being the swing voter.

Those are the current gun politics in the USA.

As to who is right and who is wrong, that is strictly an exercise is mud throwing and name calling.

No...it isn't mud throwing or name calling...there is the 2nd Amendment and actual facts on top of that...that isn't name calling or mud throwing....that the anti gunners refuse to understand the 2nd Amendment, and don't care about the facts surrounding rifles in this country is the problem....

these rifles are not a problem.....they kill fewer people each year than knives, clubs and bare hands......so any desire to ban these weapons is not based in the facts, the truth or reality...but is simply based on undiagnosed mental health issues....

 

[JimBowie1958]

My father, a man with no mental issues was diagnosed with cataracts. He managed to convince himself he was going blind and attempted to kill himself with a overdose of pills. The success rate for pills is about 2%, the percent with a gun is 89%. He survived the attempt, had the surgery, and lived another 20 or so good years. I'm sure he never regretted surviving. Was he in his right mind when he attempted suicide? If he had used a gun he likely would have missed out on 20 years of life.

Maybe your fathers suicide attempt was more of a cry for help than a serious attempt? Most men dont try suicide with pills, as they know a gun works much better and can cause an immediate death and thus no pain. In which case had all guns been illegal nothing would have changed.

But since when has making anything illegal made any difference about availability? Heroin, prostitution, marijuana, cocaine, or just about anything banned has a black market that can readily supply the item.

The only thing accomplished is that the people who profit from it has changed. Instead of small shop gun dealers making money, you have shifted the profits to a criminal syndicate.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And even though you have no idea how these (and other) things can prevent suicide, you think they should be enacted to that end.
How does that make sense?

It is the Dickey Amendment that makes no sense. I only want gun restrictions that will be effective in cutting gun violence and increasing gun safety and if the only way to do that is change the interpretation of the 2nd from an individual right then so be it.

I want to see someone that is carrying a gun and react the same way I do when I see a cop, comfort and relief. That is not currently the case.

You probably already know this, but your irrational fears are not a sound basis for removing a fundamental right.

 

[alang1216]

Maybe your fathers suicide attempt was more of a cry for help than a serious attempt? Most men dont try suicide with pills, as they know a gun works much better and can cause an immediate death and thus no pain. In which case had all guns been illegal nothing would have changed.

You're quite correct in what you say but my father didn't have easy access to a firearm. If he had, the story might have ended differently.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Now then - why do you not recognize the power of the ballot or the press, and how dangerous abuse/misuse of that power can be.

Not a case of ignorance, but in my mind the dangers are outweighed by the benefits.

Really? An irresponsible press is less of a threat tan irresponsible gun owners?
What happens when the press lies to the people and no one calls them on it?

I'm happy to entertain suggestions to make the press better.

That's easy.
-Mandatory training for journalists to ensure truth in reporting and the removal of bias.
-Upon training, a license is issued; for a fee of $500; this license is suspended upon complaint, pending investigation.
-Further,. before a news story can be published, it is reviewed by the state to ensure truthfulness and lack of bias.