How Much of a Theist or Atheist are You?

[Weatherman2020]

More Than 50% of Americans Would Vote for an Atheist Presidential Candidate — But Would You?

in 1958, only 18 percent of Americans said they’d vote for a secularist. Over the past five decades, we’ve seen steady growth, though, with more than half of Americans now reporting the same.

And no coincidence that the Presidents of the past few decades have been among the worst ever.

You make the case for Christian Presidents.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Your problem, IMO, is that you equated the man made disciplines or liturgy of religion to be God, And then, because such man made disciplines and liturgy designed by flawed human beings are of necessity in themselves flawed, you chose to discard God along with the trappings of religion.

Your error I think was in assuming that the religion was God.

Maybe there is a creator. Man has been contemplating that for a long time. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. So what?

So why would somebody so persistently attempt to destroy the faith of those who believe in a Creator? How does somebody justify denigrating, ridiculing, or demeaning those who find value in something that does no harm in any way to those who do not believe?

And in defense of your side, I have to sympathize with those who suffer the infrequent fanatical Christian who is in your face with all manner of threats and/or being accused of all manner of evil if they do not believe as that Christian does. Some of us Christians have suffered that.

I seriously doubt anybody has ever been persuaded to seek a relationship with the living God by being told he or she was going to hell. And I suspect some continue to reject the possibility of the living God because of the unattractive and toxic way that they were introduced to Him.

Like I said I would never tell a believer to their face that they are dumb. I have to hope they run into me here.
All the nice people at the church I went to Sunday. You are right, I wouldn't want to be the one to wake them up from their brainwashing. If that ignorance is making them bliss I should just ignore it and let them stay happy even if I think it's holding us all back. Because there are an awful lot of dummies on this planet. Sheep if you ask me. And you can't cry that I'm doing it to you because you asked for it coming here. It's like I'm a shark and you ventured off into shark invested water. Had you just stayed on land you would have remained safe. And I'm a shark not a croc. A croc doesn't wait for the pray to jump fully in. At least I wait.



I would never do that to a theist.

Once you come on to USMB you pretty much become a Seal

If you would not do that to people in your social circle, why would you feel justified to doing it to people here at USMB?

How the Internet Is Taking Away America’s Religion

1990, about 8 percent of the U.S. population had no religious preference. By 2010, this percentage had more than doubled to 18 percent. That’s a difference of about 25 million people, all of whom have somehow lost their religion. That raises an obvious question: how come? Why are Americans losing their faith?

the number of people with a religious upbringing has dropped since 1990. It’s easy to imagine how this inevitably leads to a fall in the number who are religious later in life.

Less religious brainwashing by parents means less brainwashed citizens 20 years from now.

goes on to show that college-level education also correlates with the drop. Once it again, it’s easy to imagine how contact with a wider group of people at college might contribute to a loss of religion.

So we are better educated. Smarter people don't fall for religions as much as poor people. But although the correlation is statistically significant, it can only account for about 5 percent of the drop, so some other factor must also be involved.

That’s where the Internet comes in. In the 1980s, Internet use was essentially zero, but in 2010, 53 percent of the population spent two hours per week online and 25 percent surfed for more than 7 hours.

This increase closely matches the decrease in religious affiliation. In fact, Downey calculates that it can account for about 25 percent of the drop.

But there is something else going on here too. Downey has found three factors—the drop in religious upbringing, the increase in college-level education and the increase in Internet use—that together explain about 50 percent of the drop in religious affiliation.

But what of the other 50 percent?

The drop in religious upbringing, increased intelligence and the increase in Internet use seem to be causing people to lose their faith. But something else about modern life that is not captured in this data is having an even bigger impact. What is it?

Again, you make the point for Christianity.

List the school murders from 1900-1960 then 1961-today.

Game Over.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

You hit the nail on the head. A Christian talks to others about his/her faith because it is great news to all. The only reason an atheist has for going around berating people for being Christian is their insecurity. There is absolutely no downside to being a Christian, only upsides even if the entire Jesus thing was a fabrication 2,000 years ago.

 

[Divine Wind]

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

LOL. You should try saying such things into a mirror before posting them on the Internet for everyone to see. Hint: you can't have less than nothing.

 

[sealybobo]

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Really? Tell those to the poorest of the poor in China where Atheism is the official religion. Tell that to the tens of thousands who starved in Russia under an Atheist Lenin and then Stalin. Again, name a single Atheist nation anywhere in which the people enjoy liberty, freedom of expression, and unlimited opportunity to prosper.

And explain why, with a few exceptions, the nations that are most prospering are nations where Christianity is the predominant religion.

Christianity is the best of all the religions no doubt. I'll give you that.

People who believe in god are happier.
The claim that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy [2][3], lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

Atheists can be spiritual (a must watch).

Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief. This corresponds with evidence which shows social and community bonding, rather than spiritual engagement, explains why religious people report greater satisfaction with life. Atheists, by comparison, may also simply be unhappy with the level of distrust and persecution they receive from their compatriots.

Year after year after year the happiest countries in the world are presented and they usually include the same countries:
Australia - Canada - Denmark - Finland - Iceland - Netherlands - New Zealand - Norway - Sweden - Switzerland with Norway taking the top honors over Denmark this year.

Predominantly Christian nations every one.

American values differ from those of Western Europeans in many important ways. Most notably, Americans are more individualistic and are less supportive of a strong safety net than are the publics of Britain, France, Germany and Spain. Americans are also considerably more religious than Western Europeans.

People in the United States are much less likely to accept Darwin's idea that humans and apes share a common ancestor than adults in other Western nations, a number of surveys show.

Nuff said

 

[sealybobo]

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

You hit the nail on the head. A Christian talks to others about his/her faith because it is great news to all. The only reason an atheist has for going around berating people for being Christian is their insecurity. There is absolutely no downside to being a Christian, only upsides even if the entire Jesus thing was a fabrication 2,000 years ago.

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

 

[Weatherman2020]

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

You hit the nail on the head. A Christian talks to others about his/her faith because it is great news to all. The only reason an atheist has for going around berating people for being Christian is their insecurity. There is absolutely no downside to being a Christian, only upsides even if the entire Jesus thing was a fabrication 2,000 years ago.

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

Ingersoll was exactly right. Without a higher being holding him up to high standards of how he must attempt to live his life, he is free to be as narcissistic, evil, and uncaring as he wishes without feeling a bit of remorse or concern about it. He can whatever he pleases simply based up if he thinks the law will catch him or not.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Atheism requires self delusion, you prove the point.

Bull. We all know that god's favorite ISM is Capitalism, right? And capitalism only works if the masses are poor. Example, walmart can't survive paying a livable wage to all it's employees. And all the good paying union jobs went to China and Mexico. Why would they run from Capitalism? Huh?

The company can't have everyone be middle class and rich. We need to exploit poor people in order to make the rich richer. If I was wrong about this then capitalism would make sure everyone made a livable wage. But capitalists call that socialism. And it's not. Because I don't want to make that base living wage. The masses make that. Guys like me and you would make more than that just like we do now. Only difference is everyone at the company would make a livable wage. If that's not possible then Capitalism requires poor people.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Atheism requires self delusion, you prove the point.

Bull. We all know that god's favorite ISM is Capitalism, right? And capitalism only works if the masses are poor. Example, walmart can't survive paying a livable wage to all it's employees. And all the good paying union jobs went to China and Mexico. Why would they run from Capitalism? Huh?

The company can't have everyone be middle class and rich. We need to exploit poor people in order to make the rich richer. If I was wrong about this then capitalism would make sure everyone made a livable wage. But capitalists call that socialism. And it's not. Because I don't want to make that base living wage. The masses make that. Guys like me and you would make more than that just like we do now. Only difference is everyone at the company would make a livable wage. If that's not possible then Capitalism requires poor people.

How is it that all of the richest nations on earth that are able to take care of their poorest are all capitalist?

If you are so concerned about jobs maybe you should look in the mirror and see why companies are sending their jobs offshore.

Honestly, you have to go to a university to learn to be that naïve.

 

[ding]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.

If I copy a Tarzan comic 25,000 times, is it more true than the bible?

You dismiss evidence of a historical event for no good reason or basis.

 

[ding]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.

25,000 after I post this

Atheism and secularism correlate highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy [2][3], lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates.

Irreligion by Country, Democracy Index, Education Index, Economic freedom, Overall Human Development.

Atheism is correlated with higher intelligence: Source 1 Source 2 Source 3 Source 4Source 5 Source 6 Source 7 Source 8 Source 9.

See also: Epiphenom – The Science of Religion and Non-Belief

“I know of no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too desirous of evidence in support of their core beliefs.” – Sam Harris

What does that have to do with the historical evidence for Jesus Christ?

 

[MaryL]

I voted strongly theist. I lied.

 

[Divine Wind]

The bible's earliest fragments date to several generations after the facts, making it all hearsay at best. It's a well-know fact that nothing was written down when (and if) Jesus spoke. Got anything for real or is that it?

No several "generations", but decades. This also explains why the Romans didn't document the execution of a simple rabbi.

There's zero proof that those who are claimed to have written parts of the bible (like Luke) actually wrote them. None.

Correct, there were no scribes writing down the words of Jesus as he spoke them. Biblical scholars often agree as to when the books were written. However, the source material is still up for evidence. I fail to see why you think this is a revelation. After Clint Eastwood's "Flags of our Fathers" came out a lot of young people were running around yapping about how the famous flag raising at Iwo Jima was actually the second flag raising. No shit. Every Marine knows that as a matter of history. Not a revelation except to the ignorant non-Marines.

Still, how does that prove your statement that it was "several generations later". Care to put an actual year figure on that? Even +10?

Time Line of Early Christianity--The Lost Gospel of Judas--National Geographic

When Were the Four Gospels Written?

The Dating of the Gospels

 

[Divine Wind]

I voted strongly theist. I lied.

What do you believe?...if anything.

 

[Divine Wind]

More Than 50% of Americans Would Vote for an Atheist Presidential Candidate — But Would You?

in 1958, only 18 percent of Americans said they’d vote for a secularist. Over the past five decades, we’ve seen steady growth, though, with more than half of Americans now reporting the same.

And no coincidence that the Presidents of the past few decades have been among the worst ever.

You make the case for Christian Presidents.

Sorry, but disagree on the "causal" factor. Human society has been evolving and changing for all of recorded history. The only thing that is certain is that those who constantly view life through a rear view mirror are wrong.

George Santayana's famous quote applies, but we, as a species, must continue to move forward. No, I don't agree with every idea the "liberals" offer, but I also don't agree with every idea offered by the "conservatives"/Tories.

It's natural for our species to advance by taking two steps forward and one step back. That concept was clearly understood by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis in his view "state may, if its citizens choose, serve as a laboratory; and try novel social and economic experiments without risk to the rest of the country."

Laboratories of democracy - Wikipedia

 

[dblack]

I voted strongly theist. I lied.

You're totally going to Hell!

 

[Weatherman2020]

More Than 50% of Americans Would Vote for an Atheist Presidential Candidate — But Would You?

in 1958, only 18 percent of Americans said they’d vote for a secularist. Over the past five decades, we’ve seen steady growth, though, with more than half of Americans now reporting the same.

And no coincidence that the Presidents of the past few decades have been among the worst ever.

You make the case for Christian Presidents.

Sorry, but disagree on the "causal" factor. Human society has been evolving and changing for all of recorded history. The only thing that is certain is that those who constantly view life through a rear view mirror are wrong.

George Santayana's famous quote applies, but we, as a species, must continue to move forward. No, I don't agree with every idea the "liberals" offer, but I also don't agree with every idea offered by the "conservatives"/Tories.

It's natural for our species to advance by taking two steps forward and one step back. That concept was clearly understood by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis in his view "state may, if its citizens choose, serve as a laboratory; and try novel social and economic experiments without risk to the rest of the country."

Laboratories of democracy - Wikipedia

There is no question civilization is imploding. None. Within 50 years the world will be a Mad Max movie in real life unless something drastic occurs to alter the direction.

 

[Divine Wind]

America. America is a secular nation. And every other civilized western country is secular....The pope helped Hitler for god sakes.

Do you know the best way to silence fanatics? Stop being a fanatic. When they sling shit, you respond with logic, not more shit.

America, and "every other civilized western country" aren't all secular. I think what you are striving to say is that democracies are not theocratic. That governments should be secular, meaning differential to all beliefs, including atheists. What I've seen on this forum are atheists advocating that our government advocate atheism. That's not what the Founders intended.

 

[Divine Wind]

I voted strongly theist. I lied.

You're totally going to Hell!

Are you a theist who truly believes this, a sarcastic atheist or something else? Sarcasm doesn't translate well on text forums.

 

[Divine Wind]

...I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion..

Sorry, Foxfyre, but there are plenty who deny science. Evolution for example or that a zygote is equal to a human being.

...Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

Agreed 100%