How Much of a Theist or Atheist are You?

[Foxfyre]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.

Well we have to be intellectually honest though and admit that those manuscripts were written by human beings as testimony to the living God. We have nothing that was literally penned by a deity.

But I have to smile at those posting writings by famous Atheists as being somehow authoritative on the subject when those 24,000 or however many there are manuscripts written by famous Christians are summarily dismissed as delusional fiction.

 

[sealybobo]

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

 

[sealybobo]

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

Your problem, IMO, is that you equated the man made disciplines or liturgy of religion to be God, And then, because such man made disciplines and liturgy designed by flawed human beings are of necessity in themselves flawed, you chose to discard God along with the trappings of religion.

Your error I think was in assuming that the religion was God.

Maybe there is a creator. Man has been contemplating that for a long time. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. So what?

So why would somebody so persistently attempt to destroy the faith of those who believe in a Creator? How does somebody justify denigrating, ridiculing, or demeaning those who find value in something that does no harm in any way to those who do not believe?

And in defense of your side, I have to sympathize with those who suffer the infrequent fanatical Christian who is in your face with all manner of threats and/or being accused of all manner of evil if they do not believe as that Christian does. Some of us Christians have suffered that.

I seriously doubt anybody has ever been persuaded to seek a relationship with the living God by being told he or she was going to hell. And I suspect some continue to reject the possibility of the living God because of the unattractive and toxic way that they were introduced to Him.

Like I said I would never tell a believer to their face that they are dumb. I have to hope they run into me here.
All the nice people at the church I went to Sunday. You are right, I wouldn't want to be the one to wake them up from their brainwashing. If that ignorance is making them bliss I should just ignore it and let them stay happy even if I think it's holding us all back. Because there are an awful lot of dummies on this planet. Sheep if you ask me. And you can't cry that I'm doing it to you because you asked for it coming here. It's like I'm a shark and you ventured off into shark invested water. Had you just stayed on land you would have remained safe. And I'm a shark not a croc. A croc doesn't wait for the pray to jump fully in. At least I wait.



I would never do that to a theist.

Once you come on to USMB you pretty much become a Seal

If you would not do that to people in your social circle, why would you feel justified to doing it to people here at USMB?

Why can’t atheists just leave theists alone?

• Because religion has been, and continues to be, responsible for countless horrors throughout human history. See also: Religiously motivated animosity, violence and oppression and discrimination.
• For all the problems we face as a society, many theists choose not only to do nothing to help, but actually engage in sabotage by actively preventing solutions from being instigated, usually by supporting irrational political positions e.g. stem-cell research, contraception, women’s rights, sexual equality and even global warming.
• Because belief in a god taps into mankind’s natural tendency to defer moral decision making to authority figures (including priests, prophets, holy books, popes, ayatollahs and imams). Acting out ‘God’s plan’ or ‘God’s will’ is a sure-fire way to absolve one’s-self of responsibility for one’s actions. See also: Cituke.
• Because as a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not on superstition. Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
• Because religious superstition erects an absolute monarchy in a person’s mind. It teaches them to be satisfied with with not understanding the world and represents a surrendering to ignorance under the pretension of ‘devine knowledge’. Many of the greatest thinkers in human history have been repressed, sometimes forcefully, by those with faith. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress. See also: Hypatia, Galileo Galilei, Giordano Bruno, The relationship between science and religion.

Note: The common theist response “Those people aren’t really [insert religion]” is an example of the No True Scotsman fallacy. If all the Christians who have called other Christians ‘not really a Christian’ were to vanish, there’d be no Christians left.

See also: The Ethics of Belief (a must read).

“Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.” – Blaise Pascal

“No belief held by one man, however seemingly trivial the belief, and however obscure the believer, is ever actually insignificant or without its effect on the fate of mankind” – William Clifford

 

[sealybobo]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.

25,000 after I post this

Atheism and secularism correlate highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy [2][3], lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates.

Irreligion by Country, Democracy Index, Education Index, Economic freedom, Overall Human Development.

Atheism is correlated with higher intelligence: Source 1 Source 2 Source 3 Source 4Source 5 Source 6 Source 7 Source 8 Source 9.

See also: Epiphenom – The Science of Religion and Non-Belief

“I know of no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too desirous of evidence in support of their core beliefs.” – Sam Harris

 

[sealybobo]

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

Your problem, IMO, is that you equated the man made disciplines or liturgy of religion to be God, And then, because such man made disciplines and liturgy designed by flawed human beings are of necessity in themselves flawed, you chose to discard God along with the trappings of religion.

Your error I think was in assuming that the religion was God.

Maybe there is a creator. Man has been contemplating that for a long time. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. So what?

So why would somebody so persistently attempt to destroy the faith of those who believe in a Creator? How does somebody justify denigrating, ridiculing, or demeaning those who find value in something that does no harm in any way to those who do not believe?

And in defense of your side, I have to sympathize with those who suffer the infrequent fanatical Christian who is in your face with all manner of threats and/or being accused of all manner of evil if they do not believe as that Christian does. Some of us Christians have suffered that.

I seriously doubt anybody has ever been persuaded to seek a relationship with the living God by being told he or she was going to hell. And I suspect some continue to reject the possibility of the living God because of the unattractive and toxic way that they were introduced to Him.

Like I said I would never tell a believer to their face that they are dumb. I have to hope they run into me here.
All the nice people at the church I went to Sunday. You are right, I wouldn't want to be the one to wake them up from their brainwashing. If that ignorance is making them bliss I should just ignore it and let them stay happy even if I think it's holding us all back. Because there are an awful lot of dummies on this planet. Sheep if you ask me. And you can't cry that I'm doing it to you because you asked for it coming here. It's like I'm a shark and you ventured off into shark invested water. Had you just stayed on land you would have remained safe. And I'm a shark not a croc. A croc doesn't wait for the pray to jump fully in. At least I wait.



I would never do that to a theist.

Once you come on to USMB you pretty much become a Seal

If you would not do that to people in your social circle, why would you feel justified to doing it to people here at USMB?

Because you ask for it coming to this subject. AND, I don't worry about hurting your feelings or having you say bad things about me in my neighborhood or worse KILL ME for my beliefs. Yes, some theists feel compelled to killing us atheists. So don't ask me why I would do it here and not in person. Because on the internet, in this message boards, you are asking for it simply by coming here.

And if you are sooooo sure of your faith, why do you care what I say? See I hate your argument lady. It's basically the "why would you hurt someone's feelings" argument. It has nothing to do with if god exists or not. Its basically saying even if he isn't, shut up and let ignorant people be blissful.

“A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it.” – David Stevens

Ever hear the truth will set you free? I'm trying to set you free. You guys tell people they'll go to hell if they don't believe. That's pretty harsh, rude and ignorant no matter how effective it is. It offends me. So sorry if I offend you.

Militant atheists are just as bad as religious ones.
No, they’re not. There are no calls for slavery, rape or murder in the atheist holy book.

Atheists are most often called ‘militant’ when they passionately defend reason and advocate critical thinking. The bar theists set for perceived hostility appears to be any atheist simply voicing an opinion in dissent of religious belief. In contrast, the bar atheists set for perceived theistic hostility is any form of religiously motivated violence or oppression.

Atheism does not preclude someone from being argumentative or insensitive; those things are simply seen as being preferable to killing one another over an imaginary friend.

A ‘militant’ atheist will debate in a University theatre or appeal for the separation of religion and government. A militant theist will kill doctors, stone women to death, incite religious war, restrict sexual and gender equality and convince children they are flawed and worthless – all under the instruction of their imagined ‘god’ or holy book.

It can be argued that there is no such thing as a ‘militant’ atheist, that the term is itself a misnomer, because there is simply no ideology or philosophy in atheism to be militant about. If an atheist is someone who lacks belief in gods, then a ‘militant’ atheist is apparently someone who passionately lacks a belief in gods. All other possible beliefs and ideologies – including any desire to oppress theism – come from outside atheism. This is in contrast to religious belief, which often includes a set of laws and commandments purportedly derived from a supernatural source about which one can be ‘militant’.

Note: ‘Militant’ atheism is most often confused with gosateizm (state atheism), which was based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. It was this ideology which was responsible for the oppression and murder of theists under several 20th century communist regimes. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods with no inherit moral, political or philosophical baggage.

See also: The Ethics of Belief (a must read), Richard Dawkins on Militant Atheism, Christian Terrorism, Islamic Terrorism, Atheist Terrorism (no link found).

“I’m sorry if my insensitivity towards your beliefs offends you. But guess what – your religious wars, jihads, crusades, inquisitions, censoring of free speech, brainwashing of children, forcing girls into underage marriages, female genital mutilation, stoning, pederasty, homophobia and rejection of science and reason offend me. So I guess we’re even.” – Anonymous

 

[Foxfyre]

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Really? Tell those to the poorest of the poor in China where Atheism is the official religion. Tell that to the tens of thousands who starved in Russia under an Atheist Lenin and then Stalin. Again, name a single Atheist nation anywhere in which the people enjoy liberty, freedom of expression, and unlimited opportunity to prosper.

And explain why, with a few exceptions, the nations that are most prospering are nations where Christianity is the predominant religion.

 

[sealybobo]

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

Your problem, IMO, is that you equated the man made disciplines or liturgy of religion to be God, And then, because such man made disciplines and liturgy designed by flawed human beings are of necessity in themselves flawed, you chose to discard God along with the trappings of religion.

Your error I think was in assuming that the religion was God.

Maybe there is a creator. Man has been contemplating that for a long time. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. So what?

So why would somebody so persistently attempt to destroy the faith of those who believe in a Creator? How does somebody justify denigrating, ridiculing, or demeaning those who find value in something that does no harm in any way to those who do not believe?

And in defense of your side, I have to sympathize with those who suffer the infrequent fanatical Christian who is in your face with all manner of threats and/or being accused of all manner of evil if they do not believe as that Christian does. Some of us Christians have suffered that.

I seriously doubt anybody has ever been persuaded to seek a relationship with the living God by being told he or she was going to hell. And I suspect some continue to reject the possibility of the living God because of the unattractive and toxic way that they were introduced to Him.

Like I said I would never tell a believer to their face that they are dumb. I have to hope they run into me here.
All the nice people at the church I went to Sunday. You are right, I wouldn't want to be the one to wake them up from their brainwashing. If that ignorance is making them bliss I should just ignore it and let them stay happy even if I think it's holding us all back. Because there are an awful lot of dummies on this planet. Sheep if you ask me. And you can't cry that I'm doing it to you because you asked for it coming here. It's like I'm a shark and you ventured off into shark invested water. Had you just stayed on land you would have remained safe. And I'm a shark not a croc. A croc doesn't wait for the pray to jump fully in. At least I wait.



I would never do that to a theist.

Once you come on to USMB you pretty much become a Seal

If you would not do that to people in your social circle, why would you feel justified to doing it to people here at USMB?

How the Internet Is Taking Away America’s Religion

1990, about 8 percent of the U.S. population had no religious preference. By 2010, this percentage had more than doubled to 18 percent. That’s a difference of about 25 million people, all of whom have somehow lost their religion. That raises an obvious question: how come? Why are Americans losing their faith?

the number of people with a religious upbringing has dropped since 1990. It’s easy to imagine how this inevitably leads to a fall in the number who are religious later in life.

Less religious brainwashing by parents means less brainwashed citizens 20 years from now.

goes on to show that college-level education also correlates with the drop. Once it again, it’s easy to imagine how contact with a wider group of people at college might contribute to a loss of religion.

So we are better educated. Smarter people don't fall for religions as much as poor people. But although the correlation is statistically significant, it can only account for about 5 percent of the drop, so some other factor must also be involved.

That’s where the Internet comes in. In the 1980s, Internet use was essentially zero, but in 2010, 53 percent of the population spent two hours per week online and 25 percent surfed for more than 7 hours.

This increase closely matches the decrease in religious affiliation. In fact, Downey calculates that it can account for about 25 percent of the drop.

But there is something else going on here too. Downey has found three factors—the drop in religious upbringing, the increase in college-level education and the increase in Internet use—that together explain about 50 percent of the drop in religious affiliation.

But what of the other 50 percent?

The drop in religious upbringing, increased intelligence and the increase in Internet use seem to be causing people to lose their faith. But something else about modern life that is not captured in this data is having an even bigger impact. What is it?

 

[sealybobo]

The share of U.S. adults who say they believe in God, while still remarkably high by comparison with other advanced industrial countries, has declined modestly, from approximately 92% to 89%, since Pew Research Center conducted its first Landscape Study in 2007.1 The share of Americans who say they are “absolutely certain” God exists has dropped more sharply, from 71% in 2007 to 63% in 2014.

I wonder how many Americans are "absolutely certain" today that God exists. Is it closer to 50%?

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Really? Tell those to the poorest of the poor in China where Atheism is the official religion. Tell that to the tens of thousands who starved in Russia under an Atheist Lenin and then Stalin. Again, name a single Atheist nation anywhere in which the people enjoy liberty, freedom of expression, and unlimited opportunity to prosper.

And explain why, with a few exceptions, the nations that are most prospering are nations where Christianity is the predominant religion.

America. America is a secular nation. And every other civilized western country is secular. None of them are Christian nations. You do realize our religous nuts here in America are much nuttier than the nuts in Europe, right? For example, they don't deny evolution like the nuts in America do.

Name one Christian Nation that practically wiped out the Native Americans and who used slaves to build the new country the just stole?

I've had all these arguments before. Is this the best you theists can do? And I'm sorry but I don't worship communism. You associating me with that just exposes your ignorance.

We won't know for a long time how an atheist run society would do because you guys are so brainwashed you wouldn't vote for an atheist. We vote for theists all the time.

Americans Would Rather Vote For A Philandering, Pot-Smoking President Than An Atheist One | The Huffington Post

So it is your attitude that has to change. You thinking us atheists are a bunch of pol pots and Hitler's is ridiculous. Hitler used the Christians the same way Trump uses religion to win elections. Who knows that Hitler truly believed but one thing we know is the Germans were a bunch of Christian sheep. The pope helped Hitler for god sakes.

 

[sealybobo]

More Than 50% of Americans Would Vote for an Atheist Presidential Candidate — But Would You?

in 1958, only 18 percent of Americans said they’d vote for a secularist. Over the past five decades, we’ve seen steady growth, though, with more than half of Americans now reporting the same.

 

[Mudda]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.

If I copy a Tarzan comic 25,000 times, is it more true than the bible?

 

[Mudda]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.

Well we have to be intellectually honest though and admit that those manuscripts were written by human beings as testimony to the living God. We have nothing that was literally penned by a deity.

But I have to smile at those posting writings by famous Atheists as being somehow authoritative on the subject when those 24,000 or however many there are manuscripts written by famous Christians are summarily dismissed as delusional fiction.

So if people copy a Justin Bieber song 4,000,000 times, is he bigger than god?

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Really? Tell those to the poorest of the poor in China where Atheism is the official religion. Tell that to the tens of thousands who starved in Russia under an Atheist Lenin and then Stalin. Again, name a single Atheist nation anywhere in which the people enjoy liberty, freedom of expression, and unlimited opportunity to prosper.

And explain why, with a few exceptions, the nations that are most prospering are nations where Christianity is the predominant religion.

According to a latest survey, 85% of Chinese people have religious beliefs or had some religious practices and only 15% of them are real atheists. The real atheists here refer to those who lack belief in the existence of deities and do not join in any religious activities. 185 million people believe in Buddhism and 33 million have faith in Christianity and believes in the existence of God. Only 12 million people are Taoists, although more than one hundred million have taken part in Taoism activities before. Thus, it is obvious that the Buddhism has the widest influence. The other major religions are Taoism, Confucianism, Islam and Christianity.

Sorry but epic fail. And I don't see the connection anyways. Sure Christianity offered black slaves in the deep south some comfort for the shitty lives they were living. The slave masters used religion so those slaves wouldn't take action to improve what little life they had left. If they weren't told a heaven was waiting maybe they would have run or revolted a lot sooner.

Like I said, religion has held us all back at least 5000 years. Religions only went along with science when they could no longer fight it. Or when everyone forgot that science has debunked your religions original claims and in fact your religion has softened in order to make sense to people. For example, at one time people believed Adam and Eve to be real people. That lie the church can no longer tell so they admit it's an allegory. Evolution is the big one. Your church can't admit YET that humans came from monkeys and monkeys were originally fish. Your religion refuses to accept that. So your religion thinks god POOFED fully grown adult zebra and giraffe and bears and humans onto the earth. Is that your claim? If you don't believe in evolution don't tell me you are pro science or that your religion hasn't held us back.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Really? Tell those to the poorest of the poor in China where Atheism is the official religion. Tell that to the tens of thousands who starved in Russia under an Atheist Lenin and then Stalin. Again, name a single Atheist nation anywhere in which the people enjoy liberty, freedom of expression, and unlimited opportunity to prosper.

And explain why, with a few exceptions, the nations that are most prospering are nations where Christianity is the predominant religion.

Christianity is the best of all the religions no doubt. I'll give you that.

People who believe in god are happier.
The claim that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy [2][3], lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

Atheists can be spiritual (a must watch).

Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief. This corresponds with evidence which shows social and community bonding, rather than spiritual engagement, explains why religious people report greater satisfaction with life. Atheists, by comparison, may also simply be unhappy with the level of distrust and persecution they receive from their compatriots.

 

[sealybobo]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.

Well we have to be intellectually honest though and admit that those manuscripts were written by human beings as testimony to the living God. We have nothing that was literally penned by a deity.

But I have to smile at those posting writings by famous Atheists as being somehow authoritative on the subject when those 24,000 or however many there are manuscripts written by famous Christians are summarily dismissed as delusional fiction.

So if people copy a Justin Bieber song 4,000,000 times, is he bigger than god?

There is no evidence god doesn’t exist, so belief is as justified or as valid as non-belief.
Argument from ignorance.

A common attempt to shift the burden of proof or ‘make room’ for a god. Represents a type of false dichotomy that excludes the fact that there is insufficient investigation and the proposition has not yet been proven either true or false.

The failure to disprove the existence of something does not constitute proof of its existence.

Belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims because all such claims would need to be believed implicitly. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

Atheists should prove god doesn’t exist.
Russell’s teapot.

The burden of proof is on the person or party asserting the claim; in this case, the theist.

See also: The Dragon in my Garage by Carl Sagan, Invisible Pink Unicorn and Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

[Foxfyre]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.

Well we have to be intellectually honest though and admit that those manuscripts were written by human beings as testimony to the living God. We have nothing that was literally penned by a deity.

But I have to smile at those posting writings by famous Atheists as being somehow authoritative on the subject when those 24,000 or however many there are manuscripts written by famous Christians are summarily dismissed as delusional fiction.

So if people copy a Justin Bieber song 4,000,000 times, is he bigger than god?

Are there really that many people who like a Justin Bieber song?

The last time I looked it up, at least 6 billion and counting Bibles have been printed. Bieber isn't anywhere close to being in the same league.,

Factoid: the longest word in the Bible is Mahershalalhashbaz. You'll find it in the Book of Isaiah.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Really? Tell those to the poorest of the poor in China where Atheism is the official religion. Tell that to the tens of thousands who starved in Russia under an Atheist Lenin and then Stalin. Again, name a single Atheist nation anywhere in which the people enjoy liberty, freedom of expression, and unlimited opportunity to prosper.

And explain why, with a few exceptions, the nations that are most prospering are nations where Christianity is the predominant religion.

Christianity is the best of all the religions no doubt. I'll give you that.

People who believe in god are happier.
The claim that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy [2][3], lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

Atheists can be spiritual (a must watch).

Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief. This corresponds with evidence which shows social and community bonding, rather than spiritual engagement, explains why religious people report greater satisfaction with life. Atheists, by comparison, may also simply be unhappy with the level of distrust and persecution they receive from their compatriots.

Year after year after year the happiest countries in the world are presented and they usually include the same countries:
Australia - Canada - Denmark - Finland - Iceland - Netherlands - New Zealand - Norway - Sweden - Switzerland with Norway taking the top honors over Denmark this year.

Predominantly Christian nations every one.

 

[ricechickie]

More Than 50% of Americans Would Vote for an Atheist Presidential Candidate — But Would You?

in 1958, only 18 percent of Americans said they’d vote for a secularist. Over the past five decades, we’ve seen steady growth, though, with more than half of Americans now reporting the same.

I suspect we already have. But when you have so many people who won't vote for an admitted atheist, I think a lot of politicians are closeted in religion.

 

[Mudda]

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

No, incorrect. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, if there's enough of it.

If A sometimes implies B, and B _never_ happens after zillions of observations, then logic says we should conclude A is wrong.

Everyone acts that way for most things in their life. Some people just make a special exception to that common sense rule for the matter of religion, which isn't logical.

But there isn't absence of evidence. There are more than 24,000 written manuscripts.

Well we have to be intellectually honest though and admit that those manuscripts were written by human beings as testimony to the living God. We have nothing that was literally penned by a deity.

But I have to smile at those posting writings by famous Atheists as being somehow authoritative on the subject when those 24,000 or however many there are manuscripts written by famous Christians are summarily dismissed as delusional fiction.

So if people copy a Justin Bieber song 4,000,000 times, is he bigger than god?

Are there really that many people who like a Justin Bieber song?

The last time I looked it up, at least 6 billion and counting Bibles have been printed. Bieber isn't anywhere close to being in the same league.,

Factoid: the longest word in the Bible is Mahershalalhashbaz. You'll find it in the Book of Isaiah.

The English word for that is Motherfuckingdouchebag. I think.

But the point is, you can copy something 80 billion times, it still doesn't make it true on that fact alone.

 

[Weatherman2020]

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

Not insecure? Then why would you feel compelled to tell a theist that there is no God? What prompts those who try to destroy the faith of somebody who takes comfort in that faith? Who finds value in that faith?

What sort of evil prompts somebody to take away that which harms the Atheist in no fashion whatsoever, but others value and cherish?

We think this does harm us. From ISIS to the stupidity of christian voters. We think it has held civilization back thousands of years. Religion has been anti science for hundreds of years. And the attrocities. And then you try to say this is a Christian nation. No it is not. If you understood this isn't a Christian nation it's for all of us then I would back off. So don't wonder why atheists attack religions because they brainwash people.

And I don't do this in public. If you are here in this thread, you are asking to hear the truth. You don't see us spouting off on street corners telling anyone they'll go to hell if they believe, do you? You can't come on USMB and be a pussy.

I think religion is very harmful so I am encouraged to see that the internet has had a lot to do with turning people atheist. Our species will be far less gullible when it gives us delusions of grandure. And people will start looking to improve their here and now rather than cope with a shitty life waiting for an afterlife.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Science as a discipline was developed mostly by Christians, almost entirely by theists. I know no Christians who are anti-science in any form or fashion. Yes there is a small minority who rejects some popular scientific theory but they are a small minority and do not represent the large bulk of us. It is as dishonest to tar all Christians with that brush as it would be to tar all Atheists as 'little Marxists, Lenins or Stalins' who were Atheist.

Show me the Atheist organizations who have organized thrift shops, soup kitchens, ministries to the desperate poor, ministries to lepers, who have risked their lives to open the minds of the ignorant before you make religion a destructive force on Earth. Christians routinely do that all the time, often at great personal risk and sacrifice.

I am currently fund raising for a group who will travel to Peru this summer to deliver refurbished wheel chairs, walkers, crutches, and other helpful apparatus to the poorest of the disabled who cannot afford such things themselves. And yes, the group is Christian motivated by Christian teachings and values. I would go with them if I was physically able, but I am not.

Show me an Atheist nation where social justice is the norm and in which all the people have opportunity to prosper beyond bare existence. And all such nations have defacto dictatorships or totalitarian governments.

Tell me one way that my being a Christian harms you in any way.

It is your christian nation that causes poor people to need thrift shops and soup kitchens. There wouldn't be a need for those things if us atheists ran things.

Atheism requires self delusion, you prove the point.