How Much of a Theist or Atheist are You?

[Mudda]

....so you have stats about atheists. So what?

LOL. So much for your self-asserted high ability for "critical thinking".

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Thinking people know an absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Obviously you're not one of the "thinking people".

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

 

[Mudda]

Like gravity, the existence of God is seperate to a person deciding if gravity or God really exist.
Your intellectual retardation says a lot about why you have such opinions.

That's why I an agnostic, the existence of god is independent of my personal opinion, but objectively, god had not been proven either way yet.

Hard to prove something that doesn't exist doesnt

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

The dog doesn't pretend to be the creator of fleas. Failed meme. Please try again.

 

[Divine Wind]

....so you have stats about atheists. So what?

LOL. So much for your self-asserted high ability for "critical thinking".

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Thinking people know an absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Obviously you're not one of the "thinking people".

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

Agreed on Agnostic. Disagreed that absence of evidence is evidence. That's the point; it's just absence of evidence. It means no evidence exists to prove or disprove an assertion. To believe either way, in this case either atheist or theist, is to take the matter on faith since neither can prove their position with evidence.

 

[Foxfyre]

....so you have stats about atheists. So what?

LOL. So much for your self-asserted high ability for "critical thinking".

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Thinking people know an absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Obviously you're not one of the "thinking people".

Which is why agnostic is the only thinking person's position, because absence of evidence isn't evidence. It's faith.

Agreed on Agnostic. Disagreed that absence of evidence is evidence. That's the point; it's just absence of evidence. It means no evidence exists to prove or disprove an assertion. To believe either way, in this case either atheist or theist, is to take the matter on faith since neither can prove their position with evidence.

On faith or experience. None of us can prove to another what experience we personally have or have had. Many theists take it on faith that God or whatever deity(ies) exist.

And there are those who believe based on experience in which case most--perhaps not all--faith is transformed into a kind of certainty. Certainty in the existence; uncertainty in full understanding so an element of faith is required to trust.

You are correct that agnostics are willing to believe, but have not had sufficient reason or experience to have any certainty. Atheists choose not to believe based on lack of evidence--lack of evidence for them personally.

It is always interesting to me how readily some people are willing to believe politicians or media or scientists or whomever tell them that such and such exists or has happened even though they have not seen the evidence or experienced it themselves. But they are not willing to believe millions/billions of people who tell them that they have experienced God.

The concept actually frightens or bothers them to the extent that they will belittle, ridicule, or become downright hostile, even militantly hostile, to the reported faith of others.

 

[sealybobo]

Like gravity, the existence of God is seperate to a person deciding if gravity or God really exist.
Your intellectual retardation says a lot about why you have such opinions.

That's why I an agnostic, the existence of god is independent of my personal opinion, but objectively, god had not been proven either way yet.

Hard to prove something that doesn't exist doesnt

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

 

[saveliberty]

On faith or experience. None of us can prove to another what experience we personally have or have had. Many theists take it on faith that God or whatever deity(ies) exist.

And there are those who believe based on experience in which case most--perhaps not all--faith is transformed into a kind of certainty. Certainty in the existence; uncertainty in full understanding so an element of faith is required to trust.

You are correct that agnostics are willing to believe, but have not had sufficient reason or experience to have any certainty. Atheists choose not to believe based on lack of evidence--lack of evidence for them personally.

It is always interesting to me how readily some people are willing to believe politicians or media or scientists or whomever tell them that such and such exists or has happened even though they have not seen the evidence or experienced it themselves. But they are not willing to believe millions/billions of people who tell them that they have experienced God.

The concept actually frightens or bothers them to the extent that they will belittle, ridicule, or become downright hostile, even militantly hostile, to the reported faith of others.

Point is, faith is necessary according to the Bible. If it was beyond reproach that God existed and all that is said about eternal life true, then faith would not be a thing.

A person can choose to have faith in nothing, themselves, others or God. Faith in nothing is hopelessness. Faith in yourself is doomed to death. Faith in others leads to disappointment. That leaves God.

 

[ding]

4. Pure agnostic. It's the thinking person's position.

You know how when you bring up the impossible stories in the bible theists say those are just allegories, but they never admit Jesus is also an allegory? Well today the priest in church was telling about how lazeris was brought back from the dead. And he wasn't telling an allegory. He really believes that.

Are you agnostic about lazeris?

I don't recall anyone saying that the miracles that Jesus performed were allegories. Except Hobo and he doesn't count. He's a militant atheist like you guys.

So what's the proof that Jesus turned water into wine?

Does it matter to you? Because I don't have proof he didn't walk on water. So you're agnostic about that too right?

The bible is full of fairy tales, and no I am not agnostic about fairy tales.

You mock what you don't understand.

 

[saveliberty]

The dog doesn't pretend to be the creator of fleas. Failed meme. Please try again.

Interesting, how long have you held this belief that a dog considers itself a God? Does it even cognate to the point of seeing itself separate from the fleas or consider how to rid itself of the fleas? Does it simply accept the fleas as part of life?

 

[Foxfyre]

That's why I an agnostic, the existence of god is independent of my personal opinion, but objectively, god had not been proven either way yet.

Hard to prove something that doesn't exist doesnt

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

 

[sealybobo]

Hard to prove something that doesn't exist doesnt

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

 

[Divine Wind]

That's why I an agnostic, the existence of god is independent of my personal opinion, but objectively, god had not been proven either way yet.

Hard to prove something that doesn't exist doesnt

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Hard to prove something that doesn't exist doesnt

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

 

[Divine Wind]

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

The most vehement anti-smokers and anti-religious types are often former smokers and lapsed believers.

I'm on the other side; a former atheist until I had a NDE when I was a junior in HS. Not a Bible-thumper by any means and not a believer in a "personal God", but certainly a believer that there is more to existence than what we see and touch.

 

[sealybobo]

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

 

[sealybobo]

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

The most vehement anti-smokers and anti-religious types are often former smokers and lapsed believers.

I'm on the other side; a former atheist until I had a NDE when I was a junior in HS. Not a Bible-thumper by any means and not a believer in a "personal God", but certainly a believer that there is more to existence than what we see and touch.

Are you aware that this is the prime age when young adults "find" religion?

And I doubt at 17 years old you were smart enough to come to the conclusion there is no god. What reasons did you have for not believing in God(s) back then? And then tell us about this experience that changed you. Not that it will impress me.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Just as hard to prove something doesn't exist. "An absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".

Smart people acknowledge this is a matter of faith, not logic.

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories.

And you have the audacity to claim you know this how?
You fabricate it because you need a lie to prop up what you wish to believe.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

I love debating theology with those of differing views.
But only atheists resort to childish responses like "you just hate science" or "your big spaghetti monster". So yes, atheists are insecure.

And did it ever occur to you that your family reacts to your statement that there is no God because they love you? They believe what Jesus said - faith in Him is what gets you into heaven. If your family supported you rejecting that offer from Jesus then I would be concerned. But obviously they care about you. Ponder that.

 

[sealybobo]

“Where ignorance is bliss, ’tis folly to be wise.” – Thomas Gray

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car – and no one will let you drive.

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all species are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” – Richard Dawkins

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

 

[sealybobo]

Faith is the absence of evidence. Thinking people need evidence.

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Your questions are legitimate. But let's be careful to not confuse religion, which is always man made, with faith.

Again, many theists have a kind of certainty of God because they have a very real experience, even a relationship with some force or Being that they only vaguely understand. They may not fully understand it, and sometime fear or perhaps stubbornness prevents them from fully embracing or trusting this Being that they know, but they have little doubt that the Being exists.

Religion attaches liturgy, rules, regulation, expectations, requirements, dogma and doctrine to some being or beings that may or may not be useful or necessary or even proper.

I suspect when we meet the God (being) that we have experienced face to face, that Being won't be particularly interested in or impressed by our theology but rather who and what we choose to be as human beings or the souls that have been created.

I used to think I had a personal relationship with god, even when I gave up on religions. You can't fake belief. You can pretend to believe but you can't fake it. If a person doesn't believe a god exists what can you do? The answer is nothing. Either something in their brain convinces them sometime down the road that there is a god or it doesn't. I can tell you that nothing you or any Christian can say to me to convince me your god is real.

And as for generic creator of all the universe? One that doesn't care but created everything? That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories. So it doesn't matter that you worship it and I don't. If you think you are scoring points with this generic creator then by all means, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But to suggest someone is less good of a person for not believing in a creator to me seems stupid. Unless of course you believe one of the organized religions and then they'll tell you it is wrong, in fact BLASPHEMY to suggest there is no creator.

That god doesn't care if you believe the Jesus, Lazeris or Jonah stories.

And you have the audacity to claim you know this how?
You fabricate it because you need a lie to prop up what you wish to believe.

Isn't that what Christians do? No! They tell us that God told them these things. I say BULLSHIT!

You have the audacity to suggest god cares if you believe the Jesus story? Why? Because your man made book says so?

 

[Mudda]

Again.
View attachment 121164

Except for the fact that they are sitting on a real life dog??? If you are now claiming that the planet earth is god, or that everything is god, how do you know this? See, I hate not knowing if you are bible thumper or a generic god believer. Because either way, where did you come up with the concept that there must be a god? And then when did you make the leap that it cares about you? Then when did you come up with the idea that you yourself become a god when you die?

Ummm, it's a cartoon. Meant to poke fun at a concept, not be the basis of scientific fact.

They get all agitated at the silliest things. Part of the insecurity issue.

I'm not insecure. You know who's insecure? Theists. When I try to tell my dad or brother there is no god boy do they get defensive. And I am not even allowed to suggest it to my nephew. I guess the brainwashing isn't complete at 15 years old.

I love debating theology with those of differing views.
But only atheists resort to childish responses like "you just hate science" or "your big spaghetti monster". So yes, atheists are insecure.

And did it ever occur to you that your family reacts to your statement that there is no God because they love you? They believe what Jesus said - faith in Him is what gets you into heaven. If your family supported you rejecting that offer from Jesus then I would be concerned. But obviously they care about you. Ponder that.

And you have the audacity to claim that you know what Jesus said how? And that it even matters, how?